How long should it take??

[Merion_Mom]

Why wouldn't you complain to Yellowbird? RCCL had nothing to do with this, other than booking, and apparently they bought adult tickets. Drinking age is rarely enforced in the Bahamas or in many other places. This could have happened at any bar or hotel in the country. Sounds like the parents should have kept a closer eye on the kids.

 

Please read the thread before posting this kind of response, since you are NOT responding to what is here!

 

The drinking occurred ON the ship also. The drinking ON the ship was excessive, and the drinks were provided by RC bartenders. The "mother" was only the mother of ONE child (maybe 2?) and was supposed to be a RESPONSIBLE ADULT CHAPERONE for a group of high school students on a graduation trip.

 

What you wrote has NOTHING to do with these circumstances.

[Silvertint]

Correct me if I am wrong, but were'nt all of you 17yrs old once upon a time.;) I am sure you had a drink, or got a friend to buy you booze, or get drunk at a party, or even go on vacation and bribe the bartender for some drinks ????

 

These teenagers were on their graduation trip, heading off to college very soon. Do not tell me they wont get drunk on campus, or at a local frat house ??? I am from Montreal, our legal drinking age is 18, but way to often you have greedy bouncers who let in 15-16-17 yr olds into nightclubs, based on a bribe.

 

You will never stop a dertemined teenager from drinking and getting drunk, booze is way to present around them and to easily accessible. On the ship, at port, at a duty free shop, smuggled in with them .. then what .. they are still drunk !!!!

 

It is the society we live in, let it be and enjoy YOUR cruise, I for one will not be bothered by people around me, after spending a small fortune on a RCCL cruise !!! :D

[whyrlygig]

I don't think anyone is saying that OP should have ignored what happened with these kids. I would have talk to ship employees about it just like she did. The only thing that seems odd is going to the CEO with it.

[KillaFee]

Controlling underage drinking has never been one of RCCL's strong points. Even though all of the bartenders know they're not supposed to serve underage drinkers, giggling teenagers have a way of getting what they want from them. :rolleyes: I know this doesn't really offer a solution or any advice, but I just wanted to share my random thoughts. :D

Laura

[bethbeth428]

I don't think anyone is saying that OP should have ignored what happened with these kids. I would have talk to ship employees about it just like she did. The only thing that seems odd is going to the CEO with it.

 

EXACTLY!!

[truffles2]

Seems pretty clear to me. She went to the top because when she talked to the employees on board they did nothing.

[livsea2]

Only when you are in the habit of complaining. I think I would have minded my own business unless there was an impact on me.

 

How about if tonight some drunk teenage driver has an IMPACT on you out on the road? Gee I guess someone should have reported the bartender feeding he/she drinks earlier eh? Oh never mind they "minded their own business" You're dead though sorry.

[beachchick]

Correct me if I am wrong, but were'nt all of you 17yrs old once upon a time.;) I am sure you had a drink, or got a friend to buy you booze, or get drunk at a party, or even go on vacation and bribe the bartender for some drinks ????

 

These teenagers were on their graduation trip, heading off to college very soon. Do not tell me they wont get drunk on campus, or at a local frat house ??? I am from Montreal, our legal drinking age is 18, but way to often you have greedy bouncers who let in 15-16-17 yr olds into nightclubs, based on a bribe.

 

You will never stop a dertemined teenager from drinking and getting drunk, booze is way to present around them and to easily accessible. On the ship, at port, at a duty free shop, smuggled in with them .. then what .. they are still drunk !!!!

 

It is the society we live in, let it be and enjoy YOUR cruise, I for one will not be bothered by people around me, after spending a small fortune on a RCCL cruise !!! :D

 

Okay. You're wrong. Yes, I was 17 a long time ago; no, I never got a friend to buy me booze or got drunk at parties or bribed bartenders to sell me alcohol (why on earth would I want to ask someone to risk their job just to get me a drink? how unbelievably selfish and immature, which kind of makes the point of why these 17-y/os shouldn't have been drinking).

 

It is not the society we live it. It's the society we are allowing to happen. I will not turn away from a teen girl who's falling down drunk and figure, "Well, she's not my teen, so what the hell do I care." I will not figure "live and let live" if RCI bartenders are serving underage passengers. I will not be so selfish as to think that my "enjoyment" is more important than a teen's safety. The adult who was supposed to be looking out for these teens wasn't; someone needed to step in and say "Enough!" before someone got hurt or killed. It was the job and responsibility of their chaperone and the onboard crew to make it as difficult as possible for those teens to get drunk. It is likely that they might have found their way to alcohol anyway, but to have the mother encouraging them to get blind drunk (ever heard of alcohol poisoning) and the bartenders blithely serving them against cruise line regulations is wrong on so many levels.

 

I'm guessing you don't have kids yet? If you do, I hope you take better care of them than these "fine" adults took care of those teens. If not, then you have no idea how your life and perspective changes when you are responsible for the well-being, health, and happiness of another person. And it is possible to be firm (not a dictator) and yet still allow your child immense happiness. Teens' brains are, in fact, still developing. They do not have the full capacity nor the life experience to handle themselves as fully adult people. That's why the adults in their lives are supposed to help them get to that point--and not by allowing them to do whatever the hell they please!

 

wingnutphl: You've written that you weren't asking for praise, but you can count me among your supporters anyway. Too often people look the other way or won't get involved. Sooner or later people and society in general suffer for it.

 

beachchick

[NiniB]

Okay. You're wrong. Yes, I was 17 a long time ago; no, I never got a friend to buy me booze or got drunk at parties or bribed bartenders to sell me alcohol (why on earth would I want to ask someone to risk their job just to get me a drink? how unbelievably selfish and immature, which kind of makes the point of why these 17-y/os shouldn't have been drinking).

 

It is not the society we live it. It's the society we are allowing to happen. I will not turn away from a teen girl who's falling down drunk and figure, "Well, she's not my teen, so what the hell do I care." I will not figure "live and let live" if RCI bartenders are serving underage passengers. I will not be so selfish as to think that my "enjoyment" is more important than a teen's safety. The adult who was supposed to be looking out for these teens wasn't; someone needed to step in and say "Enough!" before someone got hurt or killed. It was the job and responsibility of their chaperone and the onboard crew to make it as difficult as possible for those teens to get drunk. It is likely that they might have found their way to alcohol anyway, but to have the mother encouraging them to get blind drunk (ever heard of alcohol poisoning) and the bartenders blithely serving them against cruise line regulations is wrong on so many levels.

 

I'm guessing you don't have kids yet? If you do, I hope you take better care of them than these "fine" adults took care of those teens. If not, then you have no idea how your life and perspective changes when you are responsible for the well-being, health, and happiness of another person. And it is possible to be firm (not a dictator) and yet still allow your child immense happiness. Teens' brains are, in fact, still developing. They do not have the full capacity nor the life experience to handle themselves as fully adult people. That's why the adults in their lives are supposed to help them get to that point--and not by allowing them to do whatever the hell they please!

 

wingnutphl: You've written that you weren't asking for praise, but you can count me among your supporters anyway. Too often people look the other way or won't get involved. Sooner or later people and society in general suffer for it.

 

beachchick

 

 

DOUBLE DITTO from me...

[Silvertint]

Okay. You're wrong. Yes, I was 17 a long time ago; no, I never got a friend to buy me booze or got drunk at parties or bribed bartenders to sell me alcohol (why on earth would I want to ask someone to risk their job just to get me a drink? how unbelievably selfish and immature, which kind of makes the point of why these 17-y/os shouldn't have been drinking).

 

It is not the society we live it. It's the society we are allowing to happen. I will not turn away from a teen girl who's falling down drunk and figure, "Well, she's not my teen, so what the hell do I care." I will not figure "live and let live" if RCI bartenders are serving underage passengers. I will not be so selfish as to think that my "enjoyment" is more important than a teen's safety. The adult who was supposed to be looking out for these teens wasn't; someone needed to step in and say "Enough!" before someone got hurt or killed. It was the job and responsibility of their chaperone and the onboard crew to make it as difficult as possible for those teens to get drunk. It is likely that they might have found their way to alcohol anyway, but to have the mother encouraging them to get blind drunk (ever heard of alcohol poisoning) and the bartenders blithely serving them against cruise line regulations is wrong on so many levels.

 

I'm guessing you don't have kids yet? If you do, I hope you take better care of them than these "fine" adults took care of those teens. If not, then you have no idea how your life and perspective changes when you are responsible for the well-being, health, and happiness of another person. And it is possible to be firm (not a dictator) and yet still allow your child immense happiness. Teens' brains are, in fact, still developing. They do not have the full capacity nor the life experience to handle themselves as fully adult people. That's why the adults in their lives are supposed to help them get to that point--and not by allowing them to do whatever the hell they please!

 

wingnutphl: You've written that you weren't asking for praise, but you can count me among your supporters anyway. Too often people look the other way or won't get involved. Sooner or later people and society in general suffer for it.

 

beachchick

 

I agree that I would not turn away from someone in need or trouble. All I am trying to say is that if a teen wants to drink no one will stop them !!! Especially on vacation with little or no adult supervision.

 

FYI, I have a 2yr old son and I am taking great care of him !!! I totally agree with you that it changes perspective of life. :D

[nrdsb4]

On our cruise the assistant waitress brought me brown dinner rolls instead of white, heck I will contact the president of RCCL to complain so that I can get me some OBC !!! :p

 

Why do some members of this board always seem to take the smallest things and complain about it, and to the president on top of that !!!

 

Don't forget you are on vaction and there to enjoy yourself, not to worry about others !!! On the other hand your fellow passengers are also there on vacation and are there to enjoy themselves in any way shape or form that pleases them !!!

 

Sorry, just my little rant for the day :D

 

That is only true to an extent. If the way they "enjoy themselves" interferes with the rights and enjoyment of others, they are not free to "enjoy themselves in any shape or form that pleases them." Not necessarily even in reference to underage drinking, my right to please myself is not absolute. Consideration for the well being, safety, and enjoyment of others is a two way street.

[realtreebar]

could it be that they had virgin drinks and went to there room and filled them with booze that they snuck onboard in there suit cases? one really never knows what gose on do they? is what you witnessed really what you though you seen or was it another version that got construed into something else? one really does not know without the real facts!! justmy2cents:eek:

[realtreebar]

That is only true to an extent. If the way they "enjoy themselves" interferes with the rights and enjoyment of others, they are not free to "enjoy themselves in any shape or form that pleases them." Not necessarily even in reference to underage drinking, my right to please myself is not absolute. Consideration for the well being, safety, and enjoyment of others is a two way street.

 

 

its ok to plaese your self as long as you do it in your CABIN!!!!!!:eek: :D

[beachchick]

I agree that I would not turn away from someone in need or trouble. All I am trying to say is that if a teen wants to drink no one will stop them !!! Especially on vacation with little or no adult supervision.

 

FYI, I have a 2yr old son and I am taking great care of him !!! I totally agree with you that it changes perspective of life. :D

 

I'm glad to hear that you understand what how it feels to be a parent. Now, just imagine that when your wonderful son is 17 that he goes off on a senior or graduation trip and you put him in the care of chaperones. Imagine that they not only allow, but encourage him to get drunker than drunk (if you will). Don't tell me that you wouldn't be furious with the adults (and perhaps disappointed with your son a bit too) for allowing him to be in what can quickly become a dangerous situation. I can't imagine that you'd figure, "Well, he's going to get drunk anyway, so why not let the adults help him right along."

 

I understand that you're pointing out that teens/underage young adults who want to drink will find a way most times. That's certainly not in dispute (or at least not from me). I'm positive that our wonderful adult DD had a few before she turned 21, but we did not take her to bars and help her drink or take her to parties and hand her drink after drink. She knew we would be disappointed and angry if she did anything truly stupid, which I believe helped her keep in mind just how far she should try to "push" the issue. Now, I'll confess that we did allow her to have small amounts of wine (I'm talking 1/2 a glass) at dinner sometimes once she turned 18, and I know there are parents who completely disapprove, but this was in our home with us limiting her and allowing her a small pleasure as well as acknowledging that she was a young adult. Now, she and I can enjoy a good glass of wine or a drink as adults.

 

What troubled me most with your first post were these two sentences:

 

I am sure you had a drink, or got a friend to buy you booze, or get drunk at a party, or even go on vacation and bribe the bartender for some drinks ????

 

It is the society we live in, let it be and enjoy YOUR cruise, I for one will not be bothered by people around me, after spending a small fortune on a RCCL cruise !!!

 

The first because it assumes that everyone does it, which is a lousy reason for shrugging and letting the issue go. That goes in the "If your friends jumped off a bridge, would you do it too?" category.

 

The second because it implies that we should not be bothered by the people around us regardless simply because we've spent many $$$ on a cruise (or really, any vacation). This was not a "live and let live" situation (at least as conveyed by wingnutphl; as I wasn't there, I have not first-hand knowledge). These were teens getting dangerously drunk with the encouragement of the adult who was supposed to be responsible for them. A girl who has to be carried aboard isn't just "having a good time," she's in danger on many levels (health and safety both). Bartenders continually serving pax they know are underage and seeing those teens get falling down drunk deserve to be fired. Period. No excuses; no "well, they're teens, if they want to drink, they'll find a way." The bartenders know the regulations and their responsibilities, and those particular bartenders failed miserably.

 

In any case, your point about teens who want to drink finding a way is certainly valid. I just don't think we have to let it go at that.

 

beachchick

[mediator]

Correct me if I am wrong, but were'nt all of you 17yrs old once upon a time.;) I am sure you had a drink, or got a friend to buy you booze, or get drunk at a party, or even go on vacation and bribe the bartender for some drinks ????

 

These teenagers were on their graduation trip, heading off to college very soon. Do not tell me they wont get drunk on campus, or at a local frat house ??? I am from Montreal, our legal drinking age is 18, but way to often you have greedy bouncers who let in 15-16-17 yr olds into nightclubs, based on a bribe.

 

You will never stop a dertemined teenager from drinking and getting drunk, booze is way to present around them and to easily accessible. On the ship, at port, at a duty free shop, smuggled in with them .. then what .. they are still drunk !!!!

 

It is the society we live in, let it be and enjoy YOUR cruise, I for one will not be bothered by people around me, after spending a small fortune on a RCCL cruise !!! :D

 

I can only say in response on the anniversary trip of this girl... Natalie Holloway. How hard to bury your child, how do you live with never knowing what happened to your child and not having any remains. When I was growing up, it seemed like everyone knew what you were doing... and if you got home and the phone was ringing you could assume it was the "noisy" neighbor" tattling. Now people are afraid to speak up for fear of being sued by the parents or an altercation.

[luvscruising2007]

I hope wingnutphl will share with us the response she gets from RCCL.

I think she did the right thing because the crew obviously did not. I feel sorry for the parents of these kids who did not go on the cruise and entrusted their teens to someone so untrustworthy.

Underage drinking is a huge problem in our country and we do need to do anything we can to help prevent any tragedies. These kids could have died from an accident or from alcohol poisoning. It is very scarey and I hope RCCL takes the information that wingnut provided them and makes some good decisions about underage drinking. What do they do for the seapass if you are underage? Perhaps they should be a different color so it is easily identifiable.

[cruisersnorkler]

I would call customer service--then follow up with a letter. I would stress the drinking onboard--not on the shore excursion which RCCL is not AS responsible for. Anyone under age gets a hole punched in their roomcard so their should of been no misunderstanding. Since it wasn't your child--I would be surprised if you hear back--except maybe--we are looking in to the situation. However--lets hope RCCL takes action on board their ship. My son is 16--if he got caught drinking on board--well--being upset would be an understatement.

[mowerman]

I See Both Sides Of This My Self Not That I Condone Under Age Drinking But At 18 I Was Defending This Country In Iran (irainian Hostage Crisis) And I Can't Have A Beer Never Made Sense To Me But My Kids I Teach Them That Poor Choices Have Price To Pay For Them So No One But The Parents And The Kid Involved Are Ultimatley To Blame

[Merion_Mom]

Okay. You're wrong. Yes, I was 17 a long time ago; no, I never got a friend to buy me booze or got drunk at parties or bribed bartenders to sell me alcohol (why on earth would I want to ask someone to risk their job just to get me a drink? how unbelievably selfish and immature, which kind of makes the point of why these 17-y/os shouldn't have been drinking).

 

It is not the society we live it. It's the society we are allowing to happen. I will not turn away from a teen girl who's falling down drunk and figure, "Well, she's not my teen, so what the hell do I care." I will not figure "live and let live" if RCI bartenders are serving underage passengers. I will not be so selfish as to think that my "enjoyment" is more important than a teen's safety. The adult who was supposed to be looking out for these teens wasn't; someone needed to step in and say "Enough!" before someone got hurt or killed. It was the job and responsibility of their chaperone and the onboard crew to make it as difficult as possible for those teens to get drunk. It is likely that they might have found their way to alcohol anyway, but to have the mother encouraging them to get blind drunk (ever heard of alcohol poisoning) and the bartenders blithely serving them against cruise line regulations is wrong on so many levels.

 

I'm guessing you don't have kids yet? If you do, I hope you take better care of them than these "fine" adults took care of those teens. If not, then you have no idea how your life and perspective changes when you are responsible for the well-being, health, and happiness of another person. And it is possible to be firm (not a dictator) and yet still allow your child immense happiness. Teens' brains are, in fact, still developing. They do not have the full capacity nor the life experience to handle themselves as fully adult people. That's why the adults in their lives are supposed to help them get to that point--and not by allowing them to do whatever the hell they please!

 

wingnutphl: You've written that you weren't asking for praise, but you can count me among your supporters anyway. Too often people look the other way or won't get involved. Sooner or later people and society in general suffer for it.

 

beachchick

 

I nominate this for Best Post Of The Month. I couldn't agree with you more, beachchick. Keep up the good work! :)

[LonW]

No one has pointed out that a lot of these independent tour operators are family members of people that sit on the RCL board.:eek: They get paid very well for providing these services by RCL plus what you pay them.:eek:

[funfamilyfun]

Seems pretty clear to me. She went to the top because when she talked to the employees on board they did nothing.

 

 

I have to agree. Perhaps if he gets a lot of these emails, he'll do something about it?

[beachchick]

I nominate this for Best Post Of The Month. I couldn't agree with you more, beachchick. Keep up the good work! :)

 

:o Oh wow! Thank you so much. Coming from you, this really means something to me. (Yeah, that sounds kind of sappy, but I don't care.)

 

beachchick:D

[rjg41]

Your statements are really a double edged sword... you are upset because they were able to book a tour only for guests 21 years or older where known alcoholic drinking would occur, but it is ok if they have a drink, but don't get drunk ??? This in my eyes contradicts your rationale to even write to RCCL about your concerns !

 

As far as the cruiseline bar staff serving minors, that is a no-no, but if it did not affect you or anyone in your party, I would have just turned the other cheek. I am not on a cruise to police those that are not adhering to rules nor staff that are not following policy, unless it is affecting my cruise experience.

 

Just my 2 cents.....But happy that you still found time to have a good cruise.

 

 

......and if one of those drunk kids had fallen overboard, how would you feel then????????????? Oh, you probably would be saying, "Why didn't someone do something" or if they were your kids you'd be suing the cruise line.

[lorac2]

I have read all these posts and one thing I never heard mention.....the parents of these children .......if they condone this drinking behavior that is the crime......if they were unchaparoned it would be one thing but if I saw parents encouraging and helping their children to obtain liquor I would look to them and not the cruise line. If they are interfering with your peace on board then report that at the time but otherwise stay out of it!

[micruiser2002]

First of all, I have to say that what happened has already impacted most people's cruise enjoyment. Underage drinking is one of the reason they started banning people from bringing liquor on board. It is past situations like this one that ends up costing all of us. This really bugs me, they spend all kinds of time seaching legal adults luggage for liquor but then proceed to sell or give to underage passengers - what a joke.

 

Second, those of you who say mind your own business, if this mother were beating her child, would you just sit there and mind your own business? I believe in most states serving liquor to a minor is against the law?