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Cruise Value Center agency went under...


Moonlight Beach

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I really feel bad for all the employees who got caught up in this!!! And to discover no paycheck as well...That's just wrong! It wouldn't surprise me to discover there will be some charges against the owners. It sounds like some very fishy bookkeeping and I hope someone is looking into this!

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Pooh, I am so sorry for you at this time. I am glad an employee is reading these threads and can give us the more accurate story than us just speculating. I hope you end up getting your final pay check at least.

 

As for paying alot more by booking directly with HAL, it only came to $176 more. CVC had some taxes and fees that HAL did not charge. HAL did charge more for the cruise itself though. It all came out in the wash, so to speak.

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A co-worker of mine got caught up in this mess.

She has a 10-day cruise booked with HAL for January. She has now switched her booking to HAL. Her final payment was almost $400 more than CVC would have charged. [Or did charge ... which is now under dispute with her credit card company!]

 

DH switched our booking to HAL for a fall 2009 cruise, 7-day, and the price differential was about $300. The representative said final payment was due in September.

Interestingly enough, I just looked at our CVC confirmation for that cruise, and it says final payment would be due JULY 2009!!!

 

Just makes me wonder ... :confused:

 

Not sure what we will do down the road as far as booking with online agencies. I know I plan to be more involved in the process, as this has been quite a learning experience!

 

Thanks to all who have posted information here. It has been helpful!

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You are missing a point here and it almost sounds like you are blaming the victims (even if that it not your intent). This agency used to be good, they advertised on Cruise Critic, they were one of the biggest sellers of Carnival cruises and even today their front page still had a photo with Carnival Executives. They did not use to charge payments to themselves. HAL endorsed them and I even have an Email (last year) from someone at HAL telling me they were legit and had always helped HAL out in hard times. Something happened this year, the company was sold and then they declined. In my case my booking was from over a year ago with the original owner.

 

There is no reason to blame the victims, many who assumed as in the past the cruise would be paid directly to the cruise line (Btw, mine was last week as I insisted on it, had it confirmed on Email with CVC). And by the way, I always received good customer service through CVC, who had an actual office and toll free number.

 

Thank you for stating this!

It does sound like the poster was blaming the victims.

 

It's not a case of "if it looks too good to be true, it is."

CVC's prices were not ridiculously low ... I found them maybe $25-50 per person cheaper, bottom line.

We used them many times and never had any problems. I recommended them to several of my co-workers and to my family.

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You are missing a point here and it almost sounds like you are blaming the victims (even if that it not your intent). This agency used to be good, they advertised on Cruise Critic, they were one of the biggest sellers of Carnival cruises and even today their front page still had a photo with Carnival Executives. They did not use to charge payments to themselves. HAL endorsed them and I even have an Email (last year) from someone at HAL telling me they were legit and had always helped HAL out in hard times. Something happened this year, the company was sold and then they declined. In my case my booking was from over a year ago with the original owner.

 

Btw, as far as I know Carnival and HAL have always allowed discounting, including group rates. I know RCCL/Celebrity did not (but allowed lots of OBC). However it was done CVC DID in the past charge credit cards directly to HAL and at the rate that they gave me. I always received a pdf "Guest Copy" from HAL.

 

I don't think that is true that as an agent you all pay the same thing for the cruise. It has been widely reported that some large Agents do get special rates. I hope another TA will comment? There is no reason to blame the victims, many who assumed as in the past the cruise would be paid directly to the cruise line (Btw, mine was last week as I insisted on it, had it confirmed on Email with CVC). And by the way, I always received good customer service through CVC, who had an actual office and toll free number.

 

I most definitely am not blaming the passengers and my heart goes out to anyone that put good money down on something and then gets bitterly disappointed by way of not receiving what they pay for. I was stating that it is wrong to say that it is not a good idea to book through a travel agent. It is just extremely important to understand how that agent conducts their business and it is something that should be checked every time you make a booking. Just because something was done in the past doesn't mean it is still being practiced today and it only takes a moment to ask. It was standard policy in the past, before everyone started using credit cards, to give the money to the agent/agency and then the agency would forward to the vendor ... in today's world, that is no longer a necessary or truly viable practice and as legitimate agents we all have acces to the payments portion of their websites in order to directly pay monies due. It is a good practice to try and get the money in a day or two early, in the event that something may happen to keep the payment from being processed on time and correctly but there is always a few days leeway when making a final payment.

 

Additionally, I will add, that if anyone remembers Renissance Cruise Lines and how they went under within 72 hours of the attacks of 9/11 you realize that just because a cruise line has your money it doesn't guarantee anything ... Renissance tried to make a go of it without allowing for Travel Agents to make their bookings and receive fair commission for their work which left them strapped for cash because travel agents were not recommending their ships. Travel Agents are responsible for the bulk of bookings on cruise ships and the cruise lines truly understand that they need us to fill those cabins, they do not want to support the number of company employed reservation agents needed to fill over 17,000 itineraries world wide in the course of any given 12 month period. It would not be cost effective for them.

 

As for all agencies paying the same amount ... the BASE fare is the same for all agencies ... the commission structure may vary from one to another. As for discounting ... I attend webinars and face to face meetings with every cruise line we sell, which is every cruise line available and we are consistently told NOT TO PUBLICLY DISCOUNT by every single one of them. When a company such as CVC rebates and discounts they are undercutting their own bottom line. There is absolutely NOTHING WRONG with treating your client well, but any business that doesn't know what they need to clear per client to keep their doors open will always fail. If they are counting on using the TOUR CONDUCTOR CREDITS toward the rebates, etc., and they don't fill enough cabins to get the amount of the TC's then they are having to use their own money to toward those rebates and that is usually just the start of the problem.

 

RCCL, Celebrity, NCL and others that have good group policies have put a cap on the maximum OBC and gifts that are allowed per cabin via the use of the group amenity points assigned to a fulfilled group and sometimes you might be part of a group that you aren't even aware of when you sail on Princess and other lines and not even receive any amenities, depending on the agency you booked with and the contract they may have with them. And I must say that statments like "it has been widely reported" don't mean too much in this day of viral mis-information. I have been a travel agent for almost 30 years and have specialized in cruises for almost 7 and you would not believe some of the garbage I hear from people who say it is a fact because they read it on the internet ... just because someone says something does not make it valid. I am not trying to be a smart alek here, just trying to share some valuable information and trying to make sure that people understand the value of a good agent. My business has been built on repeats and referrals and many of the people that I deem my best clients are people that used to try to do it for themselves and got frustrated with never talking with the same person twice and hearing different answers to the same questions depending on who they are speaking with at the time.

 

As a lay person, it may seem like you should always find the cheapest, downest, dirtiest price but, again, as an agent, I will say that you need to know that you get what you pay for. The cruise lines reservationists cannot or will not always offer you the best rate unless you know what you are looking/asking for (good example, today I sold a cruise on NCL because the woman had called NCL direct and they didn't ask her age or where she lived and there was both a senior rate and a regional rate that saved her over $100 per cabin). Or may not always know the ships from experience or inspection or discussion and are only looking at the same layouts that you will find in their online brochure or physical brochure.

 

We, as travel agents, perform a valuable service and it doesn't cost you a penny more to go through a good agent.

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I am an agent as well and feel very sorry for all of your people caught in this mess.

 

I wanted to say. It is very normal for HAL to charge $25.00 for pier pick up as they are one cruiseline who issues paper tickets and will only mail them direct to the agency for them to mail to guests. If you try and vary from that policy they charge $100.00 to mail to guest direct. They require tickets to check in. Everyone please make sure you have your tickets or you will have problems at the pier.

 

Good luck to all.

 

 

I guess that I am lucky in that I have NEVER had a client charged for this and in fact, we have held our National Conference onboard HAL and had pier pickup for all guests in our group of over 450 and none of us had to pay anything. So, this is truly news to me and something that I will definitely put in my "things to remember" file. Thank you for the input.

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Thank you for stating this!

It does sound like the poster was blaming the victims.

 

It's not a case of "if it looks too good to be true, it is."

CVC's prices were not ridiculously low ... I found them maybe $25-50 per person cheaper, bottom line.

We used them many times and never had any problems. I recommended them to several of my co-workers and to my family.

 

HOWEVER ... CVC Did offer discounts that were not within the realm of true possiblity. When you see $25 - 50 pp lower, this is something that may be due to a special that a particular agency may have been authorized that another was not but when you see discounts that are hundreds and hundreds of dollars less than other agencies are offering you have to know that something is patently w-r-o-n-g. This has to apply to everything you purchase from a hamburger to a cruise to a TV to a car ... there is common sense that needs to be taken into consideration when doing anything ... hamburgers $1 each .... fresh made at Micky D's ... or hamburgers 10 cents each of dubious quality and manufacture ... you know in your hart that the $1 burger is the better deal and that you will end up with a gut ache at the very least from the 10 cent burger because we all know that no one can consistently offer a 10 cent burger made of good quality product. Or those $12 airline flights ... 2 seats on one plane a day and the taxes and fees end up making the price the same as if you just purchased a regular ticket.

 

There is absolutely nothing wrong in finding a good VALUE but VALUE means you receive the product that you wanted and everthing that that entails at a GOOD price. The cheapest price is not always the best VALUE.

 

CVC was and continues to be the thorn in the side of many legitimate agencies and as I stated in my first post, their demise has effected the travel industry as a whole.

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HOWEVER ... CVC Did offer discounts that were not within the realm of true possiblity. When you see $25 - 50 pp lower, this is something that may be due to a special that a particular agency may have been authorized that another was not but when you see discounts that are hundreds and hundreds of dollars less than other agencies are offering you have to know that something is patently w-r-o-n-g. This has to apply to everything you purchase from a hamburger to a cruise to a TV to a car ... there is common sense that needs to be taken into consideration when doing anything ... hamburgers $1 each .... fresh made at Micky D's ... or hamburgers 10 cents each of dubious quality and manufacture ... you know in your hart that the $1 burger is the better deal and that you will end up with a gut ache at the very least from the 10 cent burger because we all know that no one can consistently offer a 10 cent burger made of good quality product. Or those $12 airline flights ... 2 seats on one plane a day and the taxes and fees end up making the price the same as if you just purchased a regular ticket.

 

There is absolutely nothing wrong in finding a good VALUE but VALUE means you receive the product that you wanted and everthing that that entails at a GOOD price. The cheapest price is not always the best VALUE.

 

CVC was and continues to be the thorn in the side of many legitimate agencies and as I stated in my first post, their demise has effected the travel industry as a whole.

 

 

I just wanted to say again it was not the discounting that they closed it was because of bad management by the Smith brothers I was there I worked there for years and had a very stable job before they took over since we were a big agency they would receive special rates from the cruise lines so the discounting was possible it's just like the big stores you go in there prices are way cheaper then the smaller ones why because they sell more, not the problem the problems arose when the sale to them happened

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Pooh12,

 

First of all my heart goes out to you and all the people who were employed at CVC. It must have been such a shock for you all.

 

Secondly, thank you for sharing with us the reasons for the demise of this firm. Greed does play a big part in business especially when a good firm is taken over by someone who thinks they will make a quick profit in a short time as they milk the business for all they can. I do feel for the original owner who has watched his baby disappear. It must be hard for him to know that so many people have lost their jobs and that the clients have lost their money.

 

Jennie.

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HOWEVER ... CVC Did offer discounts that were not within the realm of true possiblity. When you see $25 - 50 pp lower, this is something that may be due to a special that a particular agency may have been authorized that another was not but when you see discounts that are hundreds and hundreds of dollars less than other agencies are offering you have to know that something is patently w-r-o-n-g. This has to apply to everything you purchase from a hamburger to a cruise to a TV to a car ... there is common sense that needs to be taken into consideration when doing anything ... hamburgers $1 each .... fresh made at Micky D's ... or hamburgers 10 cents each of dubious quality and manufacture ... you know in your hart that the $1 burger is the better deal and that you will end up with a gut ache at the very least from the 10 cent burger because we all know that no one can consistently offer a 10 cent burger made of good quality product. Or those $12 airline flights ... 2 seats on one plane a day and the taxes and fees end up making the price the same as if you just purchased a regular ticket.

 

There is absolutely nothing wrong in finding a good VALUE but VALUE means you receive the product that you wanted and everthing that that entails at a GOOD price. The cheapest price is not always the best VALUE.

 

CVC was and continues to be the thorn in the side of many legitimate agencies and as I stated in my first post, their demise has effected the travel industry as a whole.

 

Cruise Value Center's business model was heavily dependent on volume to be profitable. They rebated a portion of the commission received from the cruise line to the consumer in the form of a discount on cruise lines that do not prohibit this or offered "free services" such as travel insurance or shore excursions on bookings with lines that have anti-rebating rules in effect.

 

The problem with this type of business model is that overhead costs for an online cruise travel agency are about the same for an agency that rebates versus one that does not rebate. However, the commission revenues that the rebating agency has to work with is nowhere near the same, and in many cases 25 - 50% of the possible commission that non-rebating agencies earn was being used to "discount" the cruise with a lower price or a "free" service.

 

In addition to upfront commission, cruise lines have a year end back end commission of 1 to 5% that agencies can earn if certain volume targets are met with the cruise line. Even in the best of years it was known in the industry that Cruise Value Center would barely make it through the year and only become profitable once the year end override checks arrived.

 

Cruise Value Center could not make it to the end of the year to get their back end commission to try to stay afloat.

 

The moral of the story is that while we cruisers all want to get a lower price than what the cruise line or a non commission rebating agency is offering, it usually comes at a cost to us. You pay less, you usually get less.

 

We shouldn't expect to get full service when we don't pay for full service. Instead, we're likely to get less or non existent customer service, uniformed travel agents, not getting what you thought you booked, and in the case of CVC, very questionable payment processing practices.

 

When the volume of cruise bookings slows down, or an increase in cancellations occur like has happened over the past 45 days, agencies that rely primarily on discounting to win business find the validity of their business models in question.

 

If you book through an agency that rebates commission, and you think they might be having financial problems, ask them to email, fax, or mail to you a copy of the cruise line confirmation. This will show if the agency actually forwarded your money to the cruise line for payment.

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Sounds like something the Justice Dept. should look into.:mad:

 

I am sorry for all the employees out of work (and paychecks:() as well as all the cruisers who are left holding the bag.:o

 

My sympathies as well to all the former employees and customers of this agency. But I don't understand the comment from many posters here that DOJ should get involved or that the owners should go to jail. This situation is not unusual in the least. Insolvent busnesses abruptly close their doors without notice and then file for Chapter 7 liquidation all the time. It's just that most people are more familiar with Chapter 11 reorganization where the business attempts to continue operating while negotiating their debts with creditors under the supervision of the bankruptycy court. Chapter 7 bankruptcies are much more prevalent than chapter 11's.

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Thank you for stating this!

It does sound like the poster was blaming the victims.

 

It's not a case of "if it looks too good to be true, it is."

CVC's prices were not ridiculously low ... I found them maybe $25-50 per person cheaper, bottom line.

We used them many times and never had any problems. I recommended them to several of my co-workers and to my family.

 

 

In this economy, there is no way for any of us to know a perfectly stable company. Someone doubted Lehman Brothers? AIG? Who expected Circuit City to file for Bankruptcy Protection. The list goes on.

 

People who booked with CVC had every reason to think they were dealing with a solid, honorable company. No one could have foreseen they would pull something like this.

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I had a booked cruise on Princess for 2009.. Used my $200 future booking deposit which was with Princess..I contacted Princess about this situation and they agreed to accept my orginal reservation BUT AT A HIGHER PRICE than I had with CVC. I than contacted another very large national T/A who agreed to accept my booking at the discounted price from CVC. They arranged to transfer the booking from CVC to the new T/A with the same CVC price, stateroom #, early dinning, same booking # etc. etc. with Princess. However, Hal had sent a fuel surcharge of $110 from a previous Hal cruise directly to CVC for distribution. After several months without receiving the refund from CVC, I had them add it to my May 2009 cruise deposit. Final outcome : Will lose the $110 fuel surcharge refund which should have been refunded directly to me in the first place instead of CVC because I had paid it to Hal... I doubt very much that I will ever get this $110 from Hal but the situation could have been much worse.. Never make a deposit or final payment unless it goes directly to the cruise line and with a credit card only... Thjis is truly unfortunate especially for the employees and customers that may have lost deposit or final payment monies. You cannot be too careful in this day and age. I have been doing business with this T/A for 15 years and 21 cruises and never a problem until now.

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We all, hopefully, do the best we can for our own situation and from our own experiences. I just think this whole situation is a reminder. There are going to be businesses, small and large, that go under especially with the economy the way it is. Virtually no business, be it your local car repair shop, or a fairly major on line TA who's going to put out a sign saying "We're in danger of going bankrupt but come on in and do business with us."

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In this economy, there is no way for any of us to know a perfectly stable company. Someone doubted Lehman Brothers? AIG? Who expected Circuit City to file for Bankruptcy Protection. The list goes on.

 

People who booked with CVC had every reason to think they were dealing with a solid, honorable company. No one could have foreseen they would pull something like this.

 

Thank you Sail. And like I mentioned earlier, I have an Email directly from HAL (2007) stating this company was legit and had helped HAL out in hard times. Additionally, there was a photo on CVC's home page with Carnival Executives. Some of us did do our Due Diligence in checking them out but once you have had a positive experience there was no reason to doubt that anything was wrong.

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I had a booked cruise on Princess for 2009.. Used my $200 future booking deposit which was with Princess..I contacted Princess about this situation and they agreed to accept my orginal reservation BUT AT A HIGHER PRICE than I had with CVC. I than contacted another very large national T/A who agreed to accept my booking at the discounted price from CVC. They arranged to transfer the booking from CVC to the new T/A with the same CVC price, stateroom #, early dinning, same booking # etc. etc. with Princess. However, Hal had sent a fuel surcharge of $110 from a previous Hal cruise directly to CVC for distribution. After several months without receiving the refund from CVC, I had them add it to my May 2009 cruise deposit. Final outcome : Will lose the $110 fuel surcharge refund which should have been refunded directly to me in the first place instead of CVC because I had paid it to Hal... I doubt very much that I will ever get this $110 from Hal but the situation could have been much worse.. Never make a deposit or final payment unless it goes directly to the cruise line and with a credit card only... Thjis is truly unfortunate especially for the employees and customers that may have lost deposit or final payment monies. You cannot be too careful in this day and age. I have been doing business with this T/A for 15 years and 21 cruises and never a problem until now.

 

JimJam, right, those outside final can fix this by transferring to a new TA who will accept the price. However, those of us after final payment date are SOL. I'm a week late and many dollars short.

 

Sorry about the $110.00. They wanted to add the fuel refund from one cruise to another and I had said no because I wanted to keep all of the issues separate.

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I really hate this. We have used CVC time and time again. I would have used them again. I thought they were great. I never had any problems with them. Plus, which may be the problem, they were always cheaper than just about everyone else. I am really going to miss them.

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Was this Agency regulated by New Jersey or Michigan law?

 

Do complaints go to New Jersey or Michigan? I assume if you used a New Jersey office it would be NJ.

 

And yes, I know clients will see nothing but should still file a complaint with the appropriate AG office.

 

http://www.njconsumeraffairs.gov/ocp.htm (NJ Consumer Affairs)

http://www.michigan.gov/ag/0,1607,7-164-17337---,00.html (Michigan Consumer Protection)

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My sympathies as well to all the former employees and customers of this agency. But I don't understand the comment from many posters here that DOJ should get involved or that the owners should go to jail. This situation is not unusual in the least. Insolvent busnesses abruptly close their doors without notice and then file for Chapter 7 liquidation all the time. It's just that most people are more familiar with Chapter 11 reorganization where the business attempts to continue operating while negotiating their debts with creditors under the supervision of the bankruptycy court. Chapter 7 bankruptcies are much more prevalent than chapter 11's.

 

You don't understand why these people should not be prosecuted and in jail??? You are not following what was going on. They took peoples credit cards and instead of paying the cruise line (which should have been done THAT DAY), they paid the monies to themselves and never paid the suppliers or cruise lines. Even former employees have posted that they were instructed to take payments through Pay Pal. These people belong in jail.

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You don't understand why these people should not be prosecuted and in jail??? You are not following what was going on. They took peoples credit cards and instead of paying the cruise line (which should have been done THAT DAY), they paid the monies to themselves and never paid the suppliers or cruise lines. Even former employees have posted that they were instructed to take payments through Pay Pal. These people belong in jail.

 

Exactly!!!

 

They charged my friend's credit card for her cruise in early October, then never paid the cruise line. The deadline for final payment came and went, and they did not pay HAL. My friend only became aware of this when I told her, because I read on this board about CVC closing its doors. [i so appreciate the information I get here!]

 

So what was CVC doing with the money for a month???

 

I have a question: At what point would my friend have found out about her final payment not being received? She hadn't a clue! I have to think the cruise lines are going to be surprising some folks with some bad news ...

 

I feel awful because I had recommended CVC to her, based on my experiences.

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HOWEVER ... CVC Did offer discounts that were not within the realm of true possiblity. When you see $25 - 50 pp lower, this is something that may be due to a special that a particular agency may have been authorized that another was not but when you see discounts that are hundreds and hundreds of dollars less than other agencies are offering you have to know that something is patently w-r-o-n-g. This has to apply to everything you purchase from a hamburger to a cruise to a TV to a car ... there is common sense that needs to be taken into consideration when doing anything ... hamburgers $1 each .... fresh made at Micky D's ... or hamburgers 10 cents each of dubious quality and manufacture ... you know in your hart that the $1 burger is the better deal and that you will end up with a gut ache at the very least from the 10 cent burger because we all know that no one can consistently offer a 10 cent burger made of good quality product. Or those $12 airline flights ... 2 seats on one plane a day and the taxes and fees end up making the price the same as if you just purchased a regular ticket.

 

There is absolutely nothing wrong in finding a good VALUE but VALUE means you receive the product that you wanted and everthing that that entails at a GOOD price. The cheapest price is not always the best VALUE.

 

CVC was and continues to be the thorn in the side of many legitimate agencies and as I stated in my first post, their demise has effected the travel industry as a whole.

 

I have used CVC in the past on many cruises. So have family members and friends. I always had VALUE ... good service, the product I wanted, etc. etc.

Everything was always handled professionally by the TAs we used with CVC over the years. Everything has always gone smoothly.

 

As I said, I have only seen a very small discount offered by CVC over the prices I've researched online, and I have seen prices lower than CVC's on at least one site.

 

Your analogy to the hamburger doesn't really fly.

 

As others have stated before me, CVC has long been considered a reputable company,which even advertised on this Web site.

And many folks here, who are pretty savvy when it comes to booking cruises and getting the best bang for the buck, recommend a variety of online discounters. Look on the menu for this board ... one item is "deals." We're always getting told about cruise deals from a variety of sources.

 

In this economy, one just doesn't know what's going to happen ...

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Found this today

 

 

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Posted on Sat, Nov. 15, 2008 cid:image003.gif@01C94747.4D217C20cid:image003.gif@01C94747.4D217C20

Travel agency shuts down, putting trips in jeopardy

 

By Diane Mastrull

Inquirer Staff Writer

Jay Himelstein's cruise isn't due to set sail until spring, but he's already feeling queasy.

The Jackson, N.J., accountant is one of possibly thousands of people whose vacations are in jeopardy now that the travel agency they booked with has gone out of business.

Cruise Value Center, which operated from East Brunswick, N.J., but had a national sales presence via the Internet, shut down on Monday.

One of its owners told a New Jersey Better Business Bureau official yesterday that the company's Web site - www.my**************** - would be updated by Monday with instructions for those with trips booked with the company, which was a cruise and tour broker.

</span></p> Dan Crevina of the Better Business Bureau declined to reveal which principal of Cruise Value he spoke with - Richard Smith or his brother, Ronald. Crevina said he was told Cruise Value had closed "due to lack of funds."

Cruise Value was sold last year to Travel Holding Entity of Bloomfield Hills, Mich., which merged the business with its own Cruises of Distinction. No one answered the telephone at either place yesterday.

Himelstein heard from Carnival Cruise Lines on Thursday that Cruise Value was no longer in business and that $115 in payments he had made to the company toward his $570 trip to Key West and Cozumel never made it to Carnival.

His next call was to file a complaint with the Better Business Bureau, as others have done.

Despite the aggravation, Himelstein says he still has his reservation for the trip: "I've never been on a cruise."

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