auto tipping - not removable ?

[Moeve]

Why is it not percievable that we as passengers have caused this reaction by the line?

[Gerrym]

Moeve, I think this should be closed. I know your view, you know mine. I am attacking no-one.

 

 

:(

[Addict]

Not necessarily. You don't know if your waiter had heard bad news from home and was pre-occupied. Or perhaps the ship was going to be inspected and he was under pressure to get certain tasks done and had to work very late the previous night or he was just tired and working on auto pilot. There could be all kinds of reasons for the "attitude" change that aren't relating to tipping.

 

No, I don't think so. He was not pre-occupied, nor did he look particularly unhappy!! I know when I am being ignored deliberately. BTW this was not on a Celebrity ship, where we have had nothing but excellent service.

 

Must be bash the Brits day today. I'm done!!

[Amerie]

In the UK, we have today been informed by our travel agents that Celebrity will not allow you to remove the auto tipping at all when on board. Not a problem for us as we have pre-paid, but is this actually the truth ? Can anyone who has recently returned please comment, thanks

 

please close this thread

As the originator of this thread, I feel strongly that it should now be closed. I originally asked a a question which required a factual answer, nothing more, because I believed that erroneous information was being supplied by a major British travel company.

 

Thank you to those of you who provided actual information relating to their own on board experience and took the trouble to reply to my original question.

 

It happens from time to time that the replies you get to a post go somewhat beyond your original question.

 

I replied because, in the course of the ensuing dialogue, it became clear that some people did not have background information that would help them to understand why Celebrity is making it very difficult to have auto-tips removed.

 

I have found that most people....when they understand (a) the financial model re: tipping, (b) the fact that other financial models, while more acceptable in terms of terminology and clarity, will result in higher cruise prices because of tax implications and © that on Celebrity and RCCL at least, tips comprise 98% of waiter and stateroom attendant remuneration.... are less offended by the request to auto-tip.

 

For the most part, this conversation has been about sharing information and generating understanding.

[hansi]

Before this thread is closed (if that is what is happening) I have, at long last, received a reply to an email that I sent to Celebrity three times regarding their policy on the refund of fuel supplements and also about the procedure for removing the auto tip and tipping personally instead. Their reply which I copy below is very non commital.

 

"I would like to advise that the fuel supplement will be returned in the

form of on board credit, this will be added to your sea pass account when

you board the ship.

With regards to the pre paid service charge on our celebrity cruises, they

do not have to be pre paid but will however be automatically added to your

sea pass account , if you would like to discuss this further please contact

your travel agent, or speck to guest relations on board."

 

I didn't even mention about pre-paying! When I last spoke to my TA about the tipping procedure, they advised me to contact Celebrity!

[B17]

As the originator of this thread, I feel strongly that it should now be closed. I originally asked a a question which required a factual answer, nothing more, because I believed that erroneous information was being supplied by a major British travel company.

 

Thank you to those of you who provided actual information relating to their own on board experience and took the trouble to reply to my original question.

I know exactly what you mean...I asked a very similar question a few weeks ago and despite over 100 replies I did not actually get a categorical answer to my question. I have prepaid my celebrity grats due to the fact that it works out in our favour due to the £/$ rate. However I have not prepaid the grats for my 12 yr old as they wanted the full adult amount. Now I am not mean and I will add some for my son but with the new rules that came into effect mid Jan in that the grats are automatically added to onboard account, some were reporting that you can only adjust upwards, not downwards and someone said that they foughtwith customer services for weeks to get them removed for 2 very young childrenas on board ship they would not remove them at all. I am still as confused as ever.:confused:

[The_Big_M]

However I have not prepaid the grats for my 12 yr old as they wanted the full adult amount.

 

That is consistent with standard Celebrity recommendations, and has been discussed before that the general service children receive is at least as attentive and extensive as that of an adult and hence a similar tip is appropriate.

[Moeve]

@ addict

Must be bash the Brits day today. I'm done!!

 

That was not my intention..... I spoke up because of what we saw and heard last year on our Independence cruise. We pre pay our gratuitites out of princilpe and then add what ever we deem fit at the end of a cruise in cash Ok. On the second or third morning of the cruise our steward thanked us for pre paying our gratuities. Now this stuck me as very odd because they don't normally talk about the "tips". So I asked him if that was unusual. He didn't want to answer right away since I have been on the other side here I was able to ask him on a different level. And he told me that the topic gratuitites were currently a real drama and that many wanted to leave completely or go back to ships in the caribbean.

 

That made me wary and I started looking for the signs and they were there was saw a lot more crew member leave the ship than would be normal even inbetween Emb / Disembak. port - once again not really normal.

 

We heard the same thing from our dining room crew that tips were down badly.

 

Now this has nothing to do with bashing anyone!! The fact however remained the majority of pax on our cruise were british. I will agree with you that is proably passing on bad information to the passengers that causes this because one cannot print "tip at your discretion" but expect passengers, some who my never have cruised to know what is customary without telling them.

 

However most, if not all of whom post here are well aware of what is concidered customary.

 

It is just this new thing that seems to upset people for some reason or other. This leads me to believe that they are only upset because they now have to leave the full amount.

[Addict]

Hi Moeve - I was "done" but can't resist replying to your post :D.

 

I believe everything you say about the cruise out of Southampton, and do feel sorry for the crew if they were severely out of pocket, however the fact remains that it is not JUST Europeans that get pleasure out of "stiffing" the crew. I hope those that do are very happy saving their few dollars!! No doubt they can sleep peacefully at night.

 

Personally I want to continue cruising Celebrity, and would never consider NOT paying tips. I wonder if those that do "stiff" the crew are repeat passengers? I wonder if they ever encounter the same crew that they "stiffed" on a previous cruise!!! I have visions of soup being spilled - quite by accident of course. Whoops oh dear, sorry sir!! :D:D

 

Sue

[agabbymama]

Celebrity is not the only cruiseline to institute the "auto tip" "gratuity" "hotel service charge", whatever you want to call it.

 

NCL was doing this in 2004, so was RCCI, and even Celebrity in 2006, and even my favored HAL went to it for our 2007 cruise. I actually like the fact that I don't have to worry about it. They figure it out for me. Then if I want to leave a couple bucks extra I can. NO BRAINER!

 

To my way of thinking, all of the cruiselines wouldn't be going to this if there hadn't been a problem. The demands of the cruising public (like it or not) is what the cruiselines will go by. Thus all the alternative dining venues on some lines, the skating rinks, the bowling alleys, the surf riders, the malls, Johnny Rockets, etc. That isn't what I cruise for and prefer not to go on the behemoth floating cities they are building now, but it clearly is what the paying public wants, so that is the way the cruiselines are responding.

 

I think you are fighting a losing battle, if you are even thinking of having the auto tip removed.

 

As to the OP's original question, I can't answer, as I've never "pre-paid" the gratuity, it has always been shown on my seapass account on a daily basis.

[COMBOY]

From my understanding of the auto-tipping is that it is pooled and distributed to various service staff which is what the staff prefer (from what I've heard). That way some of the staff that work in the buffet or other locations get some of the pie. From my understanding if a passengers removes his/her auto tips the staff still has to forward on what the passenger has directly giving them to the tipping pool except anything they get above and beyond the standard amount. So if a passenger removes the auto-tips and skips out of directly tipping their services staff do they still have to forward to the pool the standard tips? I believe so. I'm wondering if this is why Celebrity is enforcing non-removal of the auto tipping. Staff are complaining to management that some passenger are skipping out of paying them their tips. Maybe management feel the staff is hiding some of their tips with the excuse that passenger's are stiffing them. I feel it could be a little of both. What ever the case Celebrity feels they want to the put the pressure on the passenger to stop removing the auto-tips. Celebrity will remove it, but not without a fight. I have no problem with auto-tip "as long" the the service meets or exceed my expectation. As we all know service issues can arise within some staff. Yes...you (the passengers) needs to be proactive and bring up any problems with the service staff. Management has to correct it immediately. Unfortunately...this doesn't always happen and that's why we have the direct tipping method. TIP=To insure promptness. Mandatory auto-tipping now becomes a service fee and Celebrity has to disclose that which they know will infuriate some passengers. On the other hand there are some passengers that will never be satisfied even with best service. I have a hard time believing that passengers would actively remove their auto-tips and then stiff the staff at the end of the cruise. I'm not saying is doesn't happen, but I can't believe this happens in large numbers. It could also be the staff are complaining that the tipping pool has been decreasing which could be more of an issue of the economy that passengers just aren't as generous anymore. I'm only speculating at this point. Since the tipping pool is more of an internal company issue we might not fully understand what's going on. Any other thoughts?

[hansi]

I think you are fighting a losing battle, if you are even thinking of having the auto tip removed.

 

 

Not at all. It is a discretionary charge and may be adjusted or removed!

[Gerrym]

I think you are fighting a losing battle, if you are even thinking of having the auto tip removed.

 

 

Not at all. It is a discretionary charge and may be adjusted or removed!

 

 

 

Hansi, I am quite surprised that Celebrity describe the gratuity as discretionary on their website yet it seems that some posters know more about gratuities than Celebrity do.

If Celebrity have it on their website then I consider it fact and for me that will override anyone's opinion on that particular subject, mine included!

 

 

 

Gerry

[travelingmom37]

I recently booked the Solstice by phone directly with a Celebrity agent.

I mentioned I did not want the pre-paid gratuities on my account and they said that was fine. There are no charges on my invoices as of yet.

 

Now having read a few of these posts about the efficency of the tipping pool, I may re-think that choice. We choose to do it ourselves as we always tip well beyond the "suggested amounts" for our waitstaff and room attendants. If the crew really prefers the new method, I might do the pre-paid and just give the extra in cash.:D

[AtlantaCruiser72]

In my experience ship-board gratuities fall into 4 categories:

 

1. Inclusive - Luxury lines typically include gratuities in the basic cruise fare. Passengers may offer a crew member an addtitional gratuitiy if service merits. Crystal is an exception to this as they do not include gratuities in the fare.

 

2. Pre-paid - usually paid as a separate item by the passenger when making final payment. This allows passengers to budget cruise expenses further in advance. These type of gratuities cannot be removed once onboard.

 

3. Added to seapass - Either auto-add or vouluntarily opt-in/out at a designated amount per day.

 

4. Voluntary/Cash at end of trip

 

Options 2 & 3 are most advantageous to the cruise line as it allows them to collect interest on the gratuity monies until they disburse the funds to staff on a specified payroll date anywhere from 10-30 days after the completion of the cruise for which the gratuities were collected. This also helps ensure a more constant revenue stream for the staff.

 

Option 4 is the greatest risk for staff as they have little to no assurance that passengers will give gratuites commensurate with the service they have received. As cruise fares have dropped, larger and more mainstream ships have been built, and cruises have become readily available to a wider range of passengers it seems that option 4 has become extremely unreliable. Unfortunately there are enough people out there who have no qualms about "stiffing" staff when it comes to the final day of the cruise. These people feel that they have already paid for the service they received when they paid their cruise-fare. Reality is that they didn't.

 

I agree that extending a gratuity should be an entirely personal matter. I also agree that forcing passengers to pay a set gratuity amount by auto-adding it turns it into a service fee. In a perfect world we would all extend a reasonable and fair gratuity to the hard working cruise ship staff. Obviously that has not been happening and the cruise lines have taken a proactive stance to helping service staff receive their pay.

 

I think that in light of this trend and change in the way gratuities are being rendered, cruise lines need to adjust their wording from tips/gratuities to service charge/hotel/resort fees so that passengers have a better understanding that this is a basic charge for service rendered by the ships staff as an entirety. This is how I look at it - it is a basic service fee that I will pay no matter what option of the 4 listed above the cruise line utilizes. This is a part of my total "basic" cruise cost as is the cruise fare, air fare, pre/post hotels, transfers, etc. Once onboard if a particular staff member has provided me with exceptional service I will discreetly slip them a gratuity in cash above and beyond the basic service fee.

[sheilauk]

Firstly, there is no excuse for the British not to tip. It is clear from the point of booking to the paperwork received, that there is a policy for tipping. So no-one can realistically claim that they were not aware of the need to tip.

 

Secondly, this is a copy of the e mail that I have finally received from Celebrity, in response to my question to them.

 

Dear Guest,

 

Sorry for the delay in response.

 

Please note that with Celebrity the gratuities will be automatically added to the onboard account if they have not been pre paid in advance to sailing. However, paying the gratuities through us is discretionary, therefore should you not want them added to your onboard account then you would need to advise the Guest Relations Deak once onboard.

 

Many thanks for your email.

[Gerrym]

Dear Guest,

 

Sorry for the delay in response.

 

Please note that with Celebrity the gratuities will be automatically added to the onboard account if they have not been pre paid in advance to sailing. However, paying the gratuities through us is discretionary, therefore should you not want them added to your onboard account then you would need to advise the Guest Relations Deak once onboard.

 

Many thanks for your email.

 

 

Thank you for that and hopefully that email from Celebrity will have a number of posters here eating humble pie.

 

 

I will say for the last time, this post was never about not paying gratuities although lots love to bring the subject of 'stiffing' up at every opportunity.

[bplazo]

It should be called a service charge and not be refundable and then there would not be all these tipping threads

[sunlovermtl]

On all of our cruises for the last two years or so, it has been auto tipping, but on the ships we were on you could take it off and tip as you normally would, decrease it or add to it. We kept the auto tipping, but gave our cabin steward and waiters extra in cash on the last night.

 

We figured the cruise lines started the auto tipping because so many people don't show up for dinner the last night therefore not tipping. We will be sailing on X next month and will probably leave our auto tipping in place and just give those we think did an outstanding job a little extra cash on the last night. It really is quite convenient because you don't have to make sure you keep enough cash for everyone.

 

Hello I certainly agree. The service people work hard for their tips. Some people figure "Well we will never see them again" so they don't tip. I would like to see some of those people change roles and see how they feel. We do the same auto tip and give extra to those who deserve. It is a service and if you don't want it then maybe you should stay home and clean up after yourselves.

[jackdiamond]

Hello I certainly agree. The service people work hard for their tips. Some people figure "Well we will never see them again" so they don't tip. I would like to see some of those people change roles and see how they feel. We do the same auto tip and give extra to those who deserve. It is a service and if you don't want it then maybe you should stay home and clean up after yourselves.

Very well stated!

[Gerrym]

Hello I certainly agree. The service people work hard for their tips. Some people figure "Well we will never see them again" so they don't tip. I would like to see some of those people change roles and see how they feel. We do the same auto tip and give extra to those who deserve. It is a service and if you don't want it then maybe you should stay home and clean up after yourselves.

 

 

Very well stated!!

 

 

Just not on the topic being discussed!!! lol

[Amerie]

Originally Posted by sheilauk

Dear Guest,

 

Sorry for the delay in response.

 

Please note that with Celebrity the gratuities will be automatically added to the onboard account if they have not been pre paid in advance to sailing. However, paying the gratuities through us is discretionary, therefore should you not want them added to your onboard account then you would need to advise the Guest Relations Deak once onboard.

 

Many thanks for your email.

 

 

Thank you for that and hopefully that email from Celebrity will have a number of posters here eating humble pie.

 

I will say for the last time, this post was never about not paying gratuities although lots love to bring the subject of 'stiffing' up at every opportunity.

 

I just wanted to point out that there is nothing in the email to sheilauk from Celebrity that would be reason for any poster "to eat humble pie". If you read carefully, the statement is that "paying the gratuities through us is discretionary".

:o

[travelingmom37]

Just returned from Solstice Sunday. Auto tipping worked fine. Simply went to Guest Relations and requested envelopes for ADDITIONAL tips ( we usually tip about 175%-200% of standard amounts). The wonderful staff was most appreciative.:)

[cruisefan42]

Hello Kelmac.

We followed the guidelines given in the brochure for the waiter, assistant waiter and both stateroom attendants.

Chris and Lynne.

 

IF you followed the guidelines, why would you spend so much time and aggravation ensuring your tips were removed?

[CruisingChick]

We just returned home from our 10day Caribbean on Constellation. I went to Customer Relations and asked that the tips be removed. No problem at all. They didn't even ask me why. BUT I do want you to know that in the end I gave cash to everyone and I WAS SORRY that I took off the tipping. It came out to the same amt. and I felt bad then that by me taking off the tips, those that would have benefitted from the $l.25 per person per day charge (covering all the others - whoever they are) weren't tipped by me. That would have cost me $20 and that is not much to pay for the service we received. EVERY crew member I passed said Hello. EVERY crew member had the biggest smile. We have cruised on Celebrity 20 times and every one I talked to who was cruising either for the first time or on Celebrity for the first time said they are now hooked on this cruiseline because of the service they received.

 

Hi Marlene, I really wish we had gone to Guest Relations and had our Auto Tipping removed. Our service in San Marco was definitely below average and I don't feel that the waiter and asst. waiter deserved the full tip. Also the tips went up since our last cruise and service has gone down. Our next cruise - whenever that will be - I will go to Guest Relations and immediately have them removed. In the past we have always tipped the recommended amount or higher, but if the service continues to suffer we will not be, or we will be changing cruise lines.

 

Anne Maria