A Word About Formal Night Appearance

[babyher]

I feel the need to post again some of my insight/input from a competing "Dress Code" thread mere inches away here on CC, just in case "all 'ya all ain't readin' 'nuff" on this (the 4,783rd redundant) thread on everybody's opinion on just exactly how everybody else should dress in the MDR ! : : : :

 

The truth of all this is the concept that: "If I have/want to dress this way, then you do too."

Depending on the poster, you can alternately substitute any/all of the following: "spend this much" or "be this uncomfortable" or "pack this much extra weight" OR (more truthfully) "BE JUDGED BY OTHERS"

 

How arrogant and petty of anyone to presume "Then you do too" for another human being !

 

Imagine this alternative: "I enjoy dressing 'Formal' for my own delight", thus not imposing your will on others.

 

The Tuxedo (or Dinner Jacket) is Semi-Formal evening wear (just ask any London tailor).

FORMAL evening/dinner wear (for men) is correctly "White Tie & Tailcoat" with Waistcoat ! :rolleyes:

Hope this deflates the unnecessary "Pretension Factor" from all current, previous and future (and there will be more) discussions of "Proper" HAL Dining Room attire.

99% don't even know of what they speak, which has yet to dissuade them from doing so. :mad:

 

This anecdote may be quite dated (1/2 Century ago), but it does put things in their "Proper" perspective:

The Dutchess of Windsor (no less), at the time considered THE ! model of fashion for the World as well as THE most famous woman, etc. etc., was refused entrance to the Dining Room in a conservative hotel, and in front of the ever-present reporters, for wearing PANTS! :eek:

Mind you, this "Formal" ensemble was something personally custom designed for her by Yves Saint Laurent (no less, again) and had set the fashion world on its head, AND she had just been featured on the cover of Time (no less) as the absolute Zenith of style & taste. :confused:

Now, HAL even suggests "Pants Suits" for "Formal" wear. :cool: (Viola would never presume to be more stylish or fashionable than the Duchess of Windsor)

 

While travel for most is educational and enlightening, it truly surprises me the number of the especially seasoned HAL passengers that are proving themselves to be purposefully immune to "Cultural Diversity". For me this is the very signature that one is educated and well mannered as opposed to superficially effete. The panoply of just what exactly is "Formal" (especially for men) should not be limited to one's own narrow Western European perspective. What is the height of formality in India, South Africa, SE Asia, Japan, Mexico, Bavaria or any other corner of this marvelous World is frequently far more "elegant", beautiful to look at, varied and colorful, and expensive than the laughable Black & White (unimaginative) "Penguin Suits" that would satisfy some stuffy Maitre 'd on HAL (or elsewhere). :p

Somewhere here on HAL/CC is an equally heated (and pointless) thread as to the propriety of military "Mess Dress" in the MDR on formal nights. {Of course it IS !}

As more of a lesson:

ASSUME the 2nd Coming were to happen onboard any HAL-DAM on Formal Night, should HE be denied entrance to the Main Dining Room ?

Just Asking,

 

 

 

Very well put

 

I remember when Barbara Walters interviewed Katherine Hepburn (the same interview with the infamous "What kind of tree are you? question)

 

Miss Hepburn caused a scandal when she wore pants as far back as the 30s .

 

In typical feisty fashion , Hepburn told Barbara Walters that she wore pants because she liked them, and was more comfortable in them. She didn't like dresses and only wore them in her pictures.

 

Walters asked her "Do you own a dress?"

 

Hepburn said "Yes, I have one. I'll wear it to your funeral" *LOL*

 

Barbara Walters was caught off guard by that one. She did manage to say "I am honored to know you'll be there" *LOL*

[pipedreams62]

[quote name=

 

The Tuxedo (or Dinner Jacket) is Semi-Formal evening wear (just ask any London tailor).

 

 

 

 

 

or

 

 

 

[Boytjie]

The only thing I can suggest ... for those who thirst for those bygone days of elegant dress after dark ... a Cunard cruise may suit their tastes a bit more.

 

Oh, so it is OK to tell those that like formal nights to go to Cunard but not OK to tell those that don't do formal to go to NCL. :rolleyes:

 

There, the emphasis is on more elegant dress and since most people on their ships dress that way, I would imagine the codes are probably very strictly enforced.

 

Until the I-paid-good-money-and-will-do-as-I-please crowd start sailing on Cunard, I guess. You know, it is all about them.

[pipedreams62]

The Phrase "Sombody Pass The Popcorn"

 

Will be replaced with

 

 

"Someone Get Me A Weiner Before I Die"

 

 

 

[Copper10-8]

Medication time, medication time!

[RevNeal]

Happy Easter! What I was trying to say in not enough words: All dress code threads eventually come down to the same arguments for and against, the arrival on scene shortly after, of the usual suspects (some new ones, not yet identified) to present their case and/or offer their suggestions, the same battle lines are drawn, and eventually, the same end result appears; no changes of opinion. The thread slowly fades away in the sunset, the poor pony is finally assisted out its misery and then we all wait for the next one to appear over the horizon so everything can start over again. But wait.................I'm preaching to the choir, I mean, the reverend;)

 

'Tis true ... and well said, Officer John. Nevertheless, as a prior post on this thread has recently indicated, there are some people who are new to cruising, new to HAL, and new to CC for whom substantive information regarding HAL's suggested code of dress is helpful. It's for good folk like these that I prefer to post the published code. I may or may not offer up an extensive commentary on it, including suggestions for how guys can minimally abide by the minimal stipulations of the code; that all depends upon the tenor of the thread.

 

It's a lovely Holy Saturday outside ... nice and chilly after a sometimes too warm week. I think I'm going to take my Dorcas for a walk. :)

[RevNeal]

This is 2009, not 1929.

 

<SNIP>

 

We all need to get over ourselves and recognize we live in 2009.

 

What does chronology have to do with the issue? The last time I looked people do still wear jackets and ties, dresses and pant suits, etc., to all sorts of things. I will be attending the Symphony tonight (the Church I serve don't have a Holy Saturday Service); the number of men in suits or jackets will be high ... far outnumbering those who are without a jacket. In 2009 there are more styles of Tuxedo now than ever before, and due to the internet they are less expensive and more available now than ever before. Yes, it's 2009. Yes, there is currently a "casual" mood in Western Society. Nevertheless, there are times and places and settings for dressing nicely, and there are places that do still publish a dress code. It being 2009 and not 1929 or 1959 should have very little to do with propriety.

[RevNeal]

I don't notice what you're wearing but I will notice how you're behaving. I'd rather eat dinner with someone not dressed "properly" on formal night than with the two women at the table next to mine on our last cruise who showed up for every meal dressed to the teeth but 30-45 minutes late. This affected the waiter/asst. waiter service for the rest of us. I tried complaining to those in charge but was told the staff was putting up with it so as not to affect their tips.

 

As Rita says, it's all about the $$$.

 

Oh, I agree.

However, it's really not an either/or ... is it? It can and should be a "both / and." And, in my personal experience it almost always is.

[RevNeal]

I just finished my first cruise. Zuiderdam to panama canal. I wore a sport coat and tie etc... First off there were maybe, maybe, 5 percent of the men in tuxedo's. I don't think the cruise company would turn anyone away and you see it all in the dinning room on formal night. I personally could care less but those on these boards that have there panties in a wad over this simply crack me up. I saw it all on formal night !! Another word to the wise regarding formal night or dressing etc... you rarely ever see the same people twice at least we didn't in anytime dinning situation. Wear whatever the you want and to hell with all these uppity peeps.

 

FOFLMAO

 

"those on these boards that have there panties in a wad over this simply crack me up."

 

:)

Milage will always vary on such matters. Just because you experienced it one way doesn't mean that it will always be that way, on every sailing ... because it's not. HAL is terribly inconsistent on these matters (which is part of the problem). I've been on cruises like you've described -- where the numbers of those not dressed according to minimum of the code rival those who are. I've also been on cruises where the passengers were so well dressed that those gentlemen in jacket and tie looked like they were underdressed. I've done cruises back-to-back where one week was VERY FORMAL, and the next week was decided NOT formal. One can never tell ahead of time what one will get, and due to this inconsistency it is very dangerous to counsel someone else to just "wear whatever you want" because, sure enough, the end result will be that those whom you have so counseled will be singled out and embarrassed when they try to do it on a different sailing. Case in point: we had a lady on this board who told her Dad not to worry about the Formal Night dress code and wear whatever he wanted ... she told him that, based upon her one experience on a HAL cruise that he would never be turned away from the main dinning room. He did as she suggested and, on his cruise, he WAS singled out for not being properly dressed and was NOT admitted to the main dining room on Formal Night ... and, he was utterly embarrassed by it. So, she returned to this board all ANGRY that her Dad was so humiliated by the Line enforcing its dress code on his sailing.

[RevNeal]

Please fit this guy in as well. Thanks

 

 

Hey ... I used to have one like the guy on the left. :)

Thank GOD those photos have all been destroyed! :D

[debnjoe1438]

It's a lovely Holy Saturday outside ... nice and chilly after a sometimes too warm week. I think I'm going to take my Dorcas for a walk. :)

 

HAPPY EASTER TO ALL a suggestion to those in Florida, please don't wear the shorts to church on Easter Sunday.:D

[RevNeal]

Oh, so it is OK to tell those that like formal nights to go to Cunard but not OK to tell those that don't do formal to go to NCL. :rolleyes:

 

That double-standard has been in-play for a long time on these threads.

[RevNeal]

HAPPY EASTER TO ALL a suggestion to those in Florida, please don't wear the shorts to church on Easter Sunday.:D

 

I'm just happy to have 'em in Church on Easter Sunday ... or any Sunday!

I'd let 'em come in Pajamas, if they'll just come! There is no dress code at St. Stephen's.

 

Somebody, pick up Rita. I think she must have just fainted.

[Pokeynose]

I have one comment to make about Formal night. My DH will be in a dark suit, no tux, I will be in a nice pair of slacks with a dressy top. I will not buy a formal dress that I would not wear again. We had a table for six last cruise, we were the only ones properly dressed on formal night. One other thing, staying dressed after dinner, not us, if we go to the casino I don't want our clothes smelling from smoke so we will change. If we go to a show and there is no smoking we will stay dressed up. If no one likes it, tough petunias. Flame me if you wish, I can take it, but this is how I feel.:rolleyes:

[WhansaMi]

I've read and read and read and have seen so many opinions, it make's my head spin. The fact is that those who sail on HAL want to sail on HAL. Nooone in their right mind would purposely break the rules, but the fact is that folks are going to wear what they wear. I specifically decided not to do "formal night". However, I will be walking around the "public" areas in less then "formal" attire on those nights. I will not be forced into my room (since I have paid the same as everyone else) and people need to deal. This is 2009, not 1929. My mother passed away last month and I am currently going through family photos (that go back to the 1850's). I knew my mother (and my grandmother) in the 70's/80's wearing pant suits to every occasion...and these were very stylish women. As I look through these photos, I find my grandmother, for example, in the 1920's wearing flapper dresses and furs. My mother, in the 1950's, looking like June Cleaver. Would never have imagined!! We don't live there anymore and folks need to recognize that. If I was meeting the Queen or the President, would I wear a tux or suit? Absolutely. On a cruise (read VACATION) do I need to? No. Ya all need to get a reality check. Will I be wearing cut offs and a "wife beater" to dinner, absolutely not. Will I be wearing a tux on "formal night" in the lounge? Absolutely not. We all need to get over ourselves and recognize we live in 2009. Flame away....:p

 

Tuck, good for you!

 

I'm appalled that some folks would have people hidden away because they aren't wearing tuxedos, or <gasp> have the nerve to be a woman in a pantsuit.

 

Yuck. People like this make me *want* to take another trip on HAL, just so I can be an agent of change.

[Nancyquilts]

I have one comment to make about Formal night. My DH will be in a dark suit, no tux, I will be in a nice pair of slacks with a dressy top. I will not buy a formal dress that I would not wear again. We had a table for six last cruise, we were the only ones properly dressed.

Question, not a flame. If you were dressed formally last cruise, wouldn't you still have the same outfit now? :confused: I must have been using the same two dresses for 10 years now - since I don't see the same people on each cruise, why not? (And they probably wouldn't remember, if I did see them again) ;) After all, DH has been wearing the same white dinner jacket for a lot longer than that.

[Pokeynose]

Question, not a flame. If you were dressed formally last cruise, wouldn't you still have the same outfit now? :confused: I must have been using the same two dresses for 10 years now - since I don't see the same people on each cruise, why not? (And they probably wouldn't remember, if I did see them again) ;) After all, DH has been wearing the same white dinner jacket for a lot longer than that.

 

No, I didn't wear a dress on the last cruise either. Like I said dressy pants and dressy top. The pants were palazo (sp?) so they came down to my ankles and full, I will wear those again. I don't like dresses, I'm short and not a small size so this is what looks best on me. Thanks for asking.:)

[Copper10-8]

...................... One other thing, staying dressed after dinner, not us, if we go to the casino I don't want our clothes smelling from smoke so we will change. If we go to a show and there is no smoking we will stay dressed up. If no one likes it, tough petunias. Flame me if you wish, I can take it, but this is how I feel.:rolleyes:

 

Seeing folks in the casino, the show lounge, Crow's Nest, etc. on formal nights in other than "formal clothes, as requested by HAL" happens all the time on every cruise we've been on, i.e. is routine business. Wether these are folks who never 'dressed up in formals' in the first place and/or those that did do that (dress up to 'code') but then decided to 'dress down' after dinner, HAL is not going to advise those folks to leave the public lounges (incl. the casino) just because they are no longer 'adhering to' the 'suggested' code.

[DizzyDallasDi]

On my Eurodam cruise, I got on an elevator after eating dinner in the Lido on formal night. I was wearing shorts, nice tee top and sandals...perfectly acceptable in the Lido on formal night. The couple in the elevator commented that they were headed back to their cabin to change, too. I was actually headed back to my cabin for the remainder of the evening. As others have stated, outside of the dining room you'll see people dressed in a variety of attire. Some will continue the evening formally and others will be dressed more casually. I think that as long as you're dressed "tastefully" on formal night (outside of the dining room), you'll fit right in.

 

Diane

[Pokeynose]

Thanks John and Diane. You go on a cruise to be comfortable and relax. Dressing appropriately for dinner is what we do but boy do I want to dress down afterwards.:D

[kryos]

I have one comment to make about Formal night. My DH will be in a dark suit, no tux, I will be in a nice pair of slacks with a dressy top. I will not buy a formal dress that I would not wear again. We had a table for six last cruise, we were the only ones properly dressed on formal night. One other thing, staying dressed after dinner, not us, if we go to the casino I don't want our clothes smelling from smoke so we will change. If we go to a show and there is no smoking we will stay dressed up. If no one likes it, tough petunias. Flame me if you wish, I can take it, but this is how I feel.:rolleyes:

Sounds to me like you have the right idea, Pokeynose, and you should have a wonderful cruise too!

 

A lot of people here think I advocate coming to the dining room or wandering the ship on formal nights looking like a slob. Far from it. I always say dress like you care and like you want to look nice. But that doesn't necessarily mean you have to go out and buy a full-length gown or some super fancy dress that you're never gonna wear at home. Personally, if I'm gonna buy something for a cruise, I'd rather spend my money on something that can do "double duty" on other occasions. A nice pair of slacks and a dressy blouse ... or even a plain blouse with some accessories or a jacket ... works fine. I've always dressed that way and have never gotten anything in the way of dirty looks from my fellow passengers or my tablemates. In fact, as far as being dressed, I think in most cases I was dressed just as appropriately as they were. Sure, you're gonna see some folks dressed to the nines in the dining room and around the ship, but I'd be willing to bet that most of those people dress that way because they truly enjoy it ... and if so, then that's exactly what they should do. Maybe they have those types of formal clothing in their wardrobes because they routinely go to "affairs" of that nature at home. They are comfortable in those clothes and like getting dressed up. And, I say great for them!

 

But for the majority, you will see them dressed nicely, but not necessarily dressed in what some folks on this board would consider "formal" ... and that's perfectly okay too.

 

I think the bottom line here is don't deliberately thumb your nose at your fellow passengers by walking around the ship looking like a slob on formal night ... shorts, a tee-shirt, flip flops, etc. As long as you don't do that, you'll fit in just fine.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[kryos]

Seeing folks in the casino, the show lounge, Crow's Nest, etc. on formal nights in other than "formal clothes, as requested by HAL" happens all the time on every cruise we've been on, i.e. is routine business. Wether these are folks who never 'dressed up in formals' in the first place and/or those that did do that (dress up to 'code') but then decided to 'dress down' after dinner, HAL is not going to advise those folks to leave the public lounges (incl. the casino) just because they are no longer 'adhering to' the 'suggested' code.

LOL ... of course not. You think HAL wants them sitting in their cabins all night? HAL doesn't make any onboard revenue when they change into their jammies and snuggle up in that nice HAL bed, with perhaps a good video playing on the tv. HAL wants them out and about ... and as long as they are wearing something decent to cover their private parts, HAL could care less if it's formal, casual or something in between.

 

Remember the mantra ... cha ching! :)

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[kryos]

I'm just happy to have 'em in Church on Easter Sunday ... or any Sunday!

I'd let 'em come in Pajamas, if they'll just come! There is no dress code at St. Stephen's.

 

Somebody, pick up Rita. I think she must have just fainted.

LOL ... naaaaaa, I'm okay. I'm just sitting here wishing I could be in your congregation. :)

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[kryos]

Yuck. People like this make me *want* to take another trip on HAL, just so I can be an agent of change.

Just take a cruise with me and you'll see another whole side of HAL, and have a great time in the process too.

 

It's funny, but you really don't see too many people onboard judging their fellow passengers in terms of dress. Oh, if someone really gets extreme -- bellying up to the bar in a pair of shorts and a raggedy tee-shirt at 8:00 p.m. on a formal night -- yeah, they might get some looks and they might even be refused service (and, yes, I actually saw that happen once in the Ocean Bar -- done very discretely, of course). But that's the extreme, and I don't think most of us would do that. But as for the tux and gown thing, the only people who seem to have a problem with passengers "dressing down" into something a bit more comfortable after dinner on a formal night seem to be a few of the ones right here on this board ... not the average passengers you will meet onboard the ship.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[Copper10-8]

LOL ... of course not. You think HAL wants them sitting in their cabins all night? HAL doesn't make any onboard revenue when they change into their jammies and snuggle up in that nice HAL bed, with perhaps a good video playing on the tv. HAL wants them out and about ... and as long as they are wearing something decent to cover their private parts, HAL could care less if it's formal, casual or something in between.

 

Remember the mantra ... cha ching! :)

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

 

Hence, the changing of the show times to 7:00 and 9:00 PM;)