A Word About Formal Night Appearance

[kryos]

The responsibility for dress code enforcement falls to HAL, not to individual pax. A passenger who has a concern about the level of that enforcement should take it up with a HAL representative, not with the alleged offender.

Exactly my point.

 

A lot of passengers take it upon themselves to play "policeman" with their fellow passengers. And then they can't understand why they get into altercations with them. I've heard of cases where someone actually had the guts to go up to a mom and her child at the pool and tell the mother that her child didn't belong there. Well, maybe if the "cop" had done her research first, she would have realized that there was absolutely no signage back there saying kids were not welcome. That signage changes cruise to cruise. Of course, the mother with the kid told her off. I would have done the exact same thing.

 

It is up to HAL to enforce the rules ... not other passengers. So, if someone's dress is bothering you, it is up to you to bring it to the attention of a HAL employee (such as the dining room manager or a head waiter) and then leave it up to them to handle it. If they don't handle the situation to your satisfaction, then, of course, you are more than free to escalate your complaint at the front desk. But under no circumstances should someone give "dirty" looks to the person who is not dressed "appropriately" or say something to them. That only invites altercations. And, to be fair, one doesn't know the specific circumstances ... such as maybe a piece of luggage containing all that family's formal wear being lost in transit to the ship. What? Now that whole family is supposed to give up dining in the main dining room due to a situation that is no fault of their own? Maybe they cruise specifically for the formal dining room experience because maybe at home they don't go out to dine very much.

 

So, I just think we all need to concentrate on enjoying our own cruises and keep our noses out of other people's business. If someone is not dressed appropriately, that's of no concern to me. And if someone else is so bothered by it, then I would politely suggest that THEY leave the dining room and eat elsewhere. If they are not satisfied with HAL's handling of the matter, then may I further suggest that they book their future cruises elsewhere if other passengers' dress bothers them so much? But under no circumstances should passengers get involved in playing "cop" with their fellow passengers. That only results in hard feelings and possible altercations (including physical ones). Not a good thing for anyone onboard.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[kryos]

Wow, maybe it's me but I never really noticed people looking at me. I must be used to it. It just would never occur to me to even think about what other people are wearing. Maybe I'm just self-centered on vacation!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;)

And self-centered is exactly how you should be when on vacation. You're paying your money and you want to have a good time. I, too, pay absolutely no attention whatsoever to what others are wearing. Oh, sure ... if someone really looks sharp, I might say to myself "wow, wish I had the body to wear that!" But I certainly wouldn't sit there looking down my nose at somebody who I didn't feel was dressed enough. To be honest, I'm way too busy having my own fun to do that.

 

No, you have the right attitude. Vacations are the time when one should be self-centered and all about having a great time.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[Harry1954]

We can dance around the real problem if we want, but I suggest that we should confront it - no one likes 'rule breakers' - and when someone who consciously did not pack appropriate clothes for formal night decides to go anyway, they are 'breaking the rules' - and most of us resent it. If they did not have alternative choices such as Lido or Room Service or Poolside, then it would be different. The truth is they are self-centered and not willing to follow the rules - make up their own instead. These folks are the real problem IMHO and whether we pay attention to them or not while dining is irrelevant.

 

harry

[babyher]

Exactly my point.

 

A lot of passengers take it upon themselves to play "policeman" with their fellow passengers. And then they can't understand why they get into altercations with them. I've heard of cases where someone actually had the guts to go up to a mom and her child at the pool and tell the mother that her child didn't belong there. Well, maybe if the "cop" had done her research first, she would have realized that there was absolutely no signage back there saying kids were not welcome. That signage changes cruise to cruise. Of course, the mother with the kid told her off. I would have done the exact same thing.

 

It is up to HAL to enforce the rules ... not other passengers. So, if someone's dress is bothering you, it is up to you to bring it to the attention of a HAL employee (such as the dining room manager or a head waiter) and then leave it up to them to handle it. If they don't handle the situation to your satisfaction, then, of course, you are more than free to escalate your complaint at the front desk. But under no circumstances should someone give "dirty" looks to the person who is not dressed "appropriately" or say something to them. That only invites altercations. And, to be fair, one doesn't know the specific circumstances ... such as maybe a piece of luggage containing all that family's formal wear being lost in transit to the ship. What? Now that whole family is supposed to give up dining in the main dining room due to a situation that is no fault of their own? Maybe they cruise specifically for the formal dining room experience because maybe at home they don't go out to dine very much.

 

So, I just think we all need to concentrate on enjoying our own cruises and keep our noses out of other people's business. If someone is not dressed appropriately, that's of no concern to me. And if someone else is so bothered by it, then I would politely suggest that THEY leave the dining room and eat elsewhere. If they are not satisfied with HAL's handling of the matter, then may I further suggest that they book their future cruises elsewhere if other passengers' dress bothers them so much? But under no circumstances should passengers get involved in playing "cop" with their fellow passengers. That only results in hard feelings and possible altercations (including physical ones). Not a good thing for anyone onboard.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

 

 

 

And remember Rita, these self appointed police officers don't just limit themselves to cruiseships. they are usually the "Mrs Kravitz' of the neighborhood, the supplyroom police at work etc etc etc. :(

[jhannah]

Perhaps everyone should just wear their formal clothes on the plane in case their luggage gets lost. :rolleyes:

It almost used to be that way! In the early years of flight, folks dressed to the nines to travel!

[Copper10-8]

We can dance around the real problem if we want, but I suggest that we should confront it - no one likes 'rule breakers' - and when someone who consciously did not pack appropriate clothes for formal night decides to go anyway, they are 'breaking the rules' - and most of us resent it. If they did not have alternative choices such as Lido or Room Service or Poolside, then it would be different. The truth is they are self-centered and not willing to follow the rules - make up their own instead. These folks are the real problem IMHO and whether we pay attention to them or not while dining is irrelevant.

 

harry

 

Me thinks Rita/Kryos gave some outstanding pointers on how to deal with situations like that, which (those 'situations') obviously bother some around this fine site. Bring it, the infamous dress code violation, to the attention of the dining room manager, asst. drm or any head waiter/area supervisor and allow them to handle as they see fit (or don't see fit at all).

Please don't take the law...........excuse me.........suggested dress code, into your own hands unless you're willing to face the consequences, i.e. pointing the proverbial finger, verbal confrontations, disruptions of the elegant dining environment, food fights, mud slinging and/or wrestling, tug 'o wars, rolling on the floor, what have you...........

[chloepants]

These folks are the real problem

 

Why is it a problem? What I mean is, why is it a problem for so many other passengers? Does it make your meal taste different? Does it make the entertainment less entertaining? Are they endangering your life? I'm guessing the answer to all of these is no.

 

Besides lost luggage, did you ever think that maybe they can't afford to "dress to the nines"? Maybe they're doing the best they can. If they've been allowed into the dining room then it must not have been a problem with the ship's staff.

 

I think what applies here is, "If it doesn't concern you, don't concern yourself with it."

[TrevyMcShaw]

Unless there are extenuating circumstances, I think everyone should make an effort to dress a little nicer than normal on formal night, but if they don't, it won't ruin my evening. On my last cruise, I sat with a couple that decided not to dress for formal dinner but came to the dining room anyway. They weren't turned away, but they were certainly out of place. They even admitted that they felt out of place. I imagine that will be the last time they show up in the dining room wearing ultra casual clothes on formal night. I enjoyed my meal as much as I would have if they had shown up in a ball gown and a tuxedo.

[Boytjie]

Is it OK to be self-centered enough to wear shorts, flip-flops, a tank top and baseball cap into the dining room any night? :rolleyes:

 

Or is there only a certain level of self-centeredness that is tolerated, and what would that threshold be?

[Cruisin' Ron VA]

Several of you have said that you think that some people intentionally break the dress code rules for dinner.

 

My questions is HOW DO YOU KNOW they are doing so intentionally? How do you know they did not pack any formal clothes. How do you know their luggage wasnt lost. Not all lost luggage turns up from the airline at the next port.

 

How do you know? Did you go up to these people and ask them? Did you go knocking on stateroom doors and demand to check their closets?

 

Do not judge a book by its cover or a man by his clothes.

[Boytjie]

Several of you have said that you think that some people intentionally break the dress code rules for dinner.

 

But some do, as shown by many threads here on the topic. :)

 

That said, I think boorish behavious in the dining room is uncalled for and rather tacky. But to point out the dress codes here is not the same as giving dirty looks onboad.

[Copper10-8]

They better not get into my closet unless they want to find some nasty, ugly stuff in there!:eek:

[pipedreams62]

Exactly my point.

 

A lot of passengers take it upon themselves to play "policeman" with their fellow passengers. And then they can't understand why they get into altercations with them.

 

 

I ignore the dress code

 

[geoherb]

One of the reasons we like to fly down the day before the cruise is so that any luggage mistakes will hopefully be solved before we get on the ship. We have dined with people who were not dressed appropriately on formal nights. For one couple, on their honeymoon, they just did not know better. I blame their travel agent. The husband made an effort by wearing a tie without a jacket. And I'm glad they decided to come to dinner on formal nights even without being prepared because everyone at the table would have missed them if they had not been there.

 

And whenever I see people not dressed appropriately on formal nights, I have to resist the urge to go up to them and say, "You must be that poor couple without luggage that I've been hearing about."

[babyher]

Several of you have said that you think that some people intentionally break the dress code rules for dinner.

 

My questions is HOW DO YOU KNOW they are doing so intentionally? How do you know they did not pack any formal clothes. How do you know their luggage wasnt lost. Not all lost luggage turns up from the airline at the next port.

 

How do you know? Did you go up to these people and ask them? Did you go knocking on stateroom doors and demand to check their closets?

 

Do not judge a book by its cover or a man by his clothes.

 

 

Like I mentioned in an above post, These are people who just have to mind everyone elses business be it on a cruise ship or at home, work, wherever. they don't need to know "the facts". They see, they dislike , they judge.

[lettienets]

Just in case of lost/delayed luggage, carry on your best formal night outfit, a bathing suit, dress shoes, undies and a casual outfit. Then you are all set for any unforeseen problem. How easy is that?

[babyher]

[quote name='geoherb']One of the reasons we like to fly down the day before the cruise is so that any luggage mistakes will hopefully be solved before we get on the ship. We have dined with people who were not dressed appropriately on formal nights. For one couple, on their honeymoon, they just did not know better. I blame their travel agent. The husband made an effort by wearing a tie without a jacket. And I'm glad they decided to come to dinner on formal nights even without being prepared because everyone at the table would have missed them if they had not been there.

And whenever I see people not dressed appropriately on formal nights, I have to resist the urge to go up to them and say, "You must be that poor couple without luggage that I've been hearing about."[/quote]


And you probably have the gall to be offended by what one of those "poor people" would say back to you

[Frick_&_Frack]

[quote name='lettienets']Just in case of lost/delayed luggage, carry on your best formal night outfit, a bathing suit, dress shoes, undies and a casual outfit. Then you are all set for any unforeseen problem. How easy is that?[/quote]

Unfortunately, depending on what else you may need to carry on (medical devices and so on), it can be unweildy to say the least to put extra clothes in the carry-on bag.

I'm not making a case for inappropriate dress; however, if there is an issue, the ship's personnel will know and generally assist persons to find suitable clothing or make an allowance for them to dine in comfort without missing their cruise experience due to unforeseen circumstances.

JMHO (and, yes, I've actually offered clothing to people who had lost luggage over the years - and if it fit and made them happy - great; when it didn't, them coming in with whatever they had with them, was fine by me too).

[kyriecat]

[QUOTE=Cruisin' Ron VA;19016937]Several of you have said that you think that some people intentionally break the dress code rules for dinner.

My questions is HOW DO YOU KNOW they are doing so intentionally? How do you know they did not pack any formal clothes. How do you know their luggage wasnt lost. Not all lost luggage turns up from the airline at the next port.

How do you know? Did you go up to these people and ask them? Did you go knocking on stateroom doors and demand to check their closets?

Do not judge a book by its cover or a man by his clothes.[/QUOTE]Three cruises ago a couple of guys came in the dining room on formal night wearing jeans and t-shirts with tuxedos printed on them. Their wives/girlfriends were dressed up, not really formally but dressed Sunday-church style. I might be mistaken and maybe considered intolerant, but I think they planned those outfits just to thumb their noses at dressing up. Maybe they lost their luggage and thought the tuxedo T's were a cute idea to be formal without having to buy replacement suits. If so, then I probably owe them an apology for thinking a rude thought about them.

[Cruisin' Ron VA]

[quote name='kyriecat']Three cruises ago a couple of guys came in the dining room on formal night wearing jeans and t-shirts with tuxedos printed on them. Their wives/girlfriends were dressed up, not really formally but dressed Sunday-church style. I might be mistaken and maybe considered intolerant, but I think they planned those outfits just to thumb their noses at dressing up. Maybe they lost their luggage and thought the tuxedo T's were a cute idea to be formal without having to buy replacement suits. If so, then I probably owe them an apology for thinking a rude thought about them.[/quote]

So you prejudged without knowing the true facts.

I do thank you for your honesty. :)

[kyriecat]

[quote name='kyriecat']Three cruises ago a couple of guys came in the dining room on formal night wearing jeans and t-shirts with tuxedos printed on them. Their wives/girlfriends were dressed up, not really formally but dressed Sunday-church style. I might be mistaken and maybe considered intolerant, but I think they planned those outfits just to thumb their noses at dressing up. Maybe they lost their luggage and thought the tuxedo T's were a cute idea to be formal without having to buy replacement suits. If so, then I probably owe them an apology for thinking a rude thought about them.[/QUOTE]I suppose I should clarify - it was only the guys that I thought were thumbing their noses at formal clothes. The ladies were a little under-dressed but if the guys in the t's and jeans weren't with them, I wouldn't have thought anything of it.

[twinkletoes4445]

[QUOTE=Cruisin' Ron VA;19016937]Several of you have said that you think that some people intentionally break the dress code rules for dinner.

My questions is HOW DO YOU KNOW they are doing so intentionally? How do you know they did not pack any formal clothes. How do you know their luggage wasnt lost. Not all lost luggage turns up from the airline at the next port.

How do you know? Did you go up to these people and ask them? Did you go knocking on stateroom doors and demand to check their closets?

Do not judge a book by its cover or a man by his clothes.[/QUOTE]

Good point...you don't know. On our cruise we sat with a mother and her daughter at dinner, and they told us their luggage didn't catch up with them until our first port which was day 4 of the cruise.

[twinkletoes4445]

[quote name='AZjohn'][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3]I want to cruise with you sometime Rita:D[/SIZE][/FONT][/QUOTE]

I'd also love to cruise with Rita. :)

[Cruisin' Ron VA]

[quote name='lettienets']Just in case of lost/delayed luggage, carry on your best formal night outfit, a bathing suit, dress shoes, undies and a casual outfit. Then you are all set for any unforeseen problem. How easy is that?[/quote]

How easy is that? You tell us.

That is a lot of stuff to pack in a carry on bag. The airlines are becoming a lot less friendly these days as well.

Could you please share with us your secret?

Do you always pack this way?

[fridayeyes]

[quote name='lettienets']Just in case of lost/delayed luggage, carry on your best formal night outfit, a bathing suit, dress shoes, undies and a casual outfit. Then you are all set for any unforeseen problem. How easy is that?[/QUOTE]

Actually, it isn't that easy given carry on restrictions.

Example: Two of my good friends including my cruise buddy travel with a laptop and a piece of medical equipment called a CPAP. Neither item can go as checked luggage. That's two carry-ons right there and the airlines won't let them take anything else aboard the plane. Medications and documents fit into the laptop bag but not much else does. A suit or gown, dress shoes, swimwear, undies most definitely will not fit. For the woman, she is sometimes not allowed to carry her purse as it's deemed a third carryon. When this happens, she is forced to smash her purse into the laptop bag as best she can.

For me, I can only manage it if my formal wear is something like stretch velvet that can be crammed into a tiny carry-on. Add in shoes, makeup, undergarments, a curling iron, hair dryer etc. and that's all that's going to fit. If I pack an honest to goodness formal gown or even a fancy cocktail dress, there's no way I'm smashing it into the miniscule carry-ons required now.

Additionally, for medical reasons, my cruise buddy is required to wear sneakers pretty much all the time. She has black, high-top Reeboks which fly beneath the radar when she wears business attire. In a dress or skirt, she feels absolutely ridiculous about the sneakers so for formal nights she wears a pantsuit, a lace shell and a fancy wrap. It looks nice but not truly formal.

Every now and then, I've seen people give her a look. Her medical concerns aren't anyone's business but hers, and she's in no way obligated to explain herself to a fellow passenger. If HAL admits her to the dining room, then anyone's issue with her attire should be addressed to HAL.