Please no diapers in h2o zone!

[#1TravelMom]

Well, we just returned from Liberty of the Seas. My daughter (5yrs. old) was really looking forward to a sunny day a sea in the H2O zone. There were 2 couples who had toddlers in diapers. Two days in a row, I asked the "pool staff" to please ask them to leave. The one day the staff member actually said, "I usually look around, but don't say anything unless someone complains." - I was definately complaining-so she told them no diapers in the pool. The last sea day, these people had some nerve - they brought the children without diapers. I don't know very many pottytrained 9 month olds. I told my little girl we would get sunscreen and we would be ready for the H20 zone day of fun - NOT. As we were ready to get in, I walked over to the same staff member and told her that the same toddlers were in the water, this time without diapers. Then, the unthinkable - #2 in the H2O zone. Entire thing closed for the rest of the day! Please respect the rules!!!

[crusinmama06]

Oh yeah that's just plain wrong. :( I am sorry the deck patrol wasn't more diligent. Please consider writing a letter to RCCL about it. On Indy, the deck patrol was moving everyone around without issues (well a few parents of the babies got mad, but other than that, no issues...lol)

 

They even went as far as to ask my daughter, who was blowing bubbles for the babies, not to stand in the baby zone because it was for "diapers only".

 

That's a shame. And it shouldn't have happened. :(

[cb at sea]

How gross--and unnecessary! Babies don't ask to go to the pool--it's the ADULTS that insist on it!

Even if nothing solid "escapes" from a diaper, the bacteria is flowing through the water....just complete ickiness!

[unklez]

Gross! This is why I always take a shower after coming out of a pool or hot tub. You have no idea what kids (or even adults) have done in there.

[Baxter]

On one of our cruises, I was relaxing alone in one of the pools at the rear of the ship. I was joined by a mother, grandmother and a little one -- definitely under 1 year old. Mom made a comment about having been asked to leave the other pools but thinking she was able to bring her diapered child in that particular pool. I pointed to the sign that indicated no diapers or swimmers allowed, and mentioned that it was too bad there wasn't a place for little ones to play. She immediately took the diaper off the child and plunked her in the pool. She really believed that was the solution to the "problem". I immediately said she should check with staff as I didn't think that was allowed, but she refused to go. So that was the end of my swim in the pool.

[Snowbuddy]

Ugh! As much as I wish I could take my DD (who will be 18 months old at the time of our cruise) in one of the pools, I understand why they have the rules in place & will obey them, since I have no plans to have my child potty-trained by then, lol! Why do some ppl feel the need to disobey the rules, to act like they are above it all?? esp when that gives the rest of us a bad name?! :confused:

[Sky616]

Some parents, I tell you. It is amazing how a few bad apples can ruin others' vacations. I guess some people they are above others and can do whatever and whenever they want to. My son will be 8 months old in October when we cruise and he will be at nana's and pap's house. We would like to bring him but feel it is not necessary when his grandparents don't see him that much anyways. So it will be us and our 8 yr old.

[Lady_Jag]

Why do some ppl feel the need to disobey the rules, to act like they are above it all?? esp when that gives the rest of us a bad name?! :confused:

 

Sadly, the growing trend is to the "first me, then me" selfishness. Even sadder are the parents who really believe that they are above the rules and think it's ok for "THEIR" non-potty trained kids to swim in the pool, either with or without diapers.

 

They take an attitude of "it's not wrong if no one asks you NOT to do it," (e.g. "If someone had ASKED me to take my baby out of the pool, I would have.") Even then, they become irrate and argumentative, and accuse the people who call them out on it of unnecessarily "bashing" or "sniping" them.

 

In such cases, all we can do is just shake our heads and hope that they grow a brain one day. :rolleyes:

[smoothy]

The really frustrating thing is, on the Freedom class ships RCCL went out of their way to make (and have a variance granted by the CDC vessel sanitation inspection) a splash area just for diapered children. It is just so inconsiderate not only to other passangers, but also to the company that spent lots of money and effort to accomodate one segment of the passengers that has traditionally been ignored when it comes to water activities.

[seacrcsvz]

Please don't hate me for this question, but please explain to me what the big deal is with swim diapers? I am the mother of three children, I would never allow my kids in the pool if I thought they would have a bowel movement (my son is almost 3 and close to potty trained, so this much I can guarantee) and particularly not if they have any diarrhea, but if we are only talking about a little urine, what is the big deal? I know it sounds disgusting but come on, lots of kids pee in the pool, even those plenty old enough to know better. Are you telling me that you honestly believe all those 3, 4, 5, 6... year olds are getting out of the pool and going to the bathroom each and every time?

 

The biggest fear of contamination of the pool is that it will spread Cryptosporidium parvum. I understand the concern here. But remember that would only be an issue if your child in fact has cryptosporidium themselves. You have all mentioned, and I have seen in other posts, that the pool onboard the ship was closed for 24 hours for decontamination, but this would be insufficient to rid the pool of the crypto - according to the CDC "even with an effective filter it may take as long as 2 1/2 days to remove most of the (crypto) oocysts from a pool". You are fooling yourselves if you think that banning kids in diapers from pools will prevent the spread of crypto. The CDC recommends the following, which I am certain is not happening on cruise ships:

--"Showering is very important as thousands of oocysts may reside on the surfaces near the anus after a bowel movement. The oocysts can contaminate the pool upon contact with the water. A policy of mandatory showers before swimming and enforcement of the policy can reduce the risk of remaining, unnoticeable fecal material being washed into the pool. Showering should include the thorough use of soap and warm water, focusing on the surfaces near the anus. A quick rinsing over a swimsuit with cold water will probably not do much good."

--"If you have or have had diarrhea in the past 2 weeks, please do not use the pool."

--Also, it is mandatory that you wash your hands with warm soapy water following using the bathroom or changing a childs diaper.

 

The CDC goes on to further state that, to prevent the spread of cryptosporidium, all infants/toddlers should use a swim diapers and as a parent you should keep your children out of the pool if they have any diarrhea. Why is this policy not good enough for cruise lines? At most public swimming pools in North America, it is policy that infants/toddlers are required to wear swim diapers in pools. Many city swimming pools, such as the YMCA, have a policy that all children must wear a double layer of protection - a disposable swim diaper and a cloth swim diaper- to enter the pool. This is a policy that we have always abided by and do in our own swimming pool at home as well. Why can't cruise ships simply take the effort to inform all parents who board the ship of these concerns and appeal to someones conscience to not put others at risk?

 

My final point, if anyone has a 2 year old they will know that it is IMPOSSIBLE to tell him/her that they can not go in the pool along with their big brothers/sisters for the entire length of a cruise if no other options are provided! My children can all swim, my 2 year old can keep up with most other 10 year olds in the pool - he is a wonderful swimmer and enjoys the pool (you should see him dive to the bottom to retrieve coins!). I will not be able to keep him out of the water, but as a responsible parent I will guarantee that he will not be in the water if he has diarrhea or has had diarrhea in the last few weeks (nor will anyone in my family, for that matter). Why won't you give me the option to put him in a swim diaper in the off chance he has a bowel movement- not that he will- and at least let your minds be at ease. I would even be willing to have my son tested for cryptosporidium prior to sailing to prove that he is putting no one at risk, and at my own expense. Unfortunately that is not an option that I am given. I guarantee you there are other people who won't give it a thought about the fact they had diarrhea last week - they are the real people putting you at risk. Why not let my son get in the pool and enjoy himself?

[smoothy]

Please don't hate me for this question, but please explain to me what the big deal is with swim diapers? I am the mother of three children, I would never allow my kids in the pool if I thought they would have a bowel movement (my son is almost 3 and close to potty trained, so this much I can guarantee) and particularly not if they have any diarrhea, but if we are only talking about a little urine, what is the big deal? I know it sounds disgusting but come on, lots of kids pee in the pool, even those plenty old enough to know better. Are you telling me that you honestly believe all those 3, 4, 5, 6... year olds are getting out of the pool and going to the bathroom each and every time?

 

The biggest fear of contamination of the pool is that it will spread Cryptosporidium parvum. I understand the concern here. But remember that would only be an issue if your child in fact has cryptosporidium themselves. You have all mentioned, and I have seen in other posts, that the pool onboard the ship was closed for 24 hours for decontamination, but this would be insufficient to rid the pool of the crypto - according to the CDC "even with an effective filter it may take as long as 2 1/2 days to remove most of the (crypto) oocysts from a pool". You are fooling yourselves if you think that banning kids in diapers from pools will prevent the spread of crypto. The CDC recommends the following, which I am certain is not happening on cruise ships:

--"Showering is very important as thousands of oocysts may reside on the surfaces near the anus after a bowel movement. The oocysts can contaminate the pool upon contact with the water. A policy of mandatory showers before swimming and enforcement of the policy can reduce the risk of remaining, unnoticeable fecal material being washed into the pool. Showering should include the thorough use of soap and warm water, focusing on the surfaces near the anus. A quick rinsing over a swimsuit with cold water will probably not do much good."

--"If you have or have had diarrhea in the past 2 weeks, please do not use the pool."

--Also, it is mandatory that you wash your hands with warm soapy water following using the bathroom or changing a childs diaper.

 

The CDC goes on to further state that, to prevent the spread of cryptosporidium, all infants/toddlers should use a swim diapers and as a parent you should keep your children out of the pool if they have any diarrhea. Why is this policy not good enough for cruise lines? At most public swimming pools in North America, it is policy that infants/toddlers are required to wear swim diapers in pools. Many city swimming pools, such as the YMCA, have a policy that all children must wear a double layer of protection - a disposable swim diaper and a cloth swim diaper- to enter the pool. This is a policy that we have always abided by and do in our own swimming pool at home as well. Why can't cruise ships simply take the effort to inform all parents who board the ship of these concerns and appeal to someones conscience to not put others at risk?

 

My final point, if anyone has a 2 year old they will know that it is IMPOSSIBLE to tell him/her that they can not go in the pool along with their big brothers/sisters for the entire length of a cruise if no other options are provided! My children can all swim, my 2 year old can keep up with most other 10 year olds in the pool - he is a wonderful swimmer and enjoys the pool (you should see him dive to the bottom to retrieve coins!). I will not be able to keep him out of the water, but as a responsible parent I will guarantee that he will not be in the water if he has diarrhea or has had diarrhea in the last few weeks (nor will anyone in my family, for that matter). Why won't you give me the option to put him in a swim diaper in the off chance he has a bowel movement- not that he will- and at least let your minds be at ease. I would even be willing to have my son tested for cryptosporidium prior to sailing to prove that he is putting no one at risk, and at my own expense. Unfortunately that is not an option that I am given. I guarantee you there are other people who won't give it a thought about the fact they had diarrhea last week - they are the real people putting you at risk. Why not let my son get in the pool and enjoy himself?

 

The short answer is that the CDC Vessel Sanitation Program does not allow children in diapers in the pool. Some ships have variances to allow them to have a pool for diapered children (http://wwwn.cdc.gov/InspectionQueryTool/Forms/VariancesByTopicResultList_VesselGroup.aspx?SID=6.4.1.3.1)

 

I empathize for you, my youngest isn't all that far out of pull-ups and I know what a hassle it is, especially when here the local health laws allow children with swim diapers and then on the ship the answer is no. Unfortunately, some parents at some point in the past ruined it for everyone else by either not using swim diapers or by allowing a child with tummy troubles in the water (and I have yet to see a swim diaper would be able to handle an atomic diarrhea strike) forcing the CDC to put the rules in place.

[nothriver]

Thank you for the well written informative post, seacrcsvz. I remember "showering" at the pool as a child, we hopped into the shower just enough to get out suits damp. No one ever told us WHY we were supposed to shower before entering the pool. No one told us we weren't supposed to swim if we had been sick either - as latch key children, we walked to the pool almost every day with no supervision, our only instructions from our parents was that we couldn't go unless it was 80 degrees or warmer.

 

Anyway, adults AND children need to be better informed about cryptosporidum. I really believe even young children understand that it is not sanitary to pee/poop in the pool. They are the ones drinking tons of pool water, so keeping the water clean for themselves, their friends and everyone else is easy for them to understand, imo, as long as someone takes the time to explan it to them repetedly. In a public pool, the teenage lifeguards are the front line for interacting with the kids and lets face it - information needs to presented to the teens in a way they can understand and they somehow be presented to adults and kids.

[6rugrats]

My final point, if anyone has a 2 year old they will know that it is IMPOSSIBLE to tell him/her that they can not go in the pool along with their big brothers/sisters for the entire length of a cruise if no other options are provided! Why not let my son get in the pool and enjoy himself?

 

Having had several two years olds myself, I can assure you that no, it's not impossible to tell them they can't go into the pool. You do have other options; bring a small inflatable pool that they may play in.

 

You child can't go into the pool because those are the rules. Might as well learn that we can't have everything our way from an early age. If more people did, perhaps there would be less of the entitlement attitude I see so much every day.

[Lady_Jag]

The short answer is that the CDC Vessel Sanitation Program does not allow children in diapers in the pool. Some ships have variances to allow them to have a pool for diapered children (http://wwwn.cdc.gov/InspectionQueryTool/Forms/VariancesByTopicResultList_VesselGroup.aspx?SID=6.4.1.3.1)

 

I empathize for you, my youngest isn't all that far out of pull-ups and I know what a hassle it is, especially when here the local health laws allow children with swim diapers and then on the ship the answer is no. Unfortunately, some parents at some point in the past ruined it for everyone else by either not using swim diapers or by allowing a child with tummy troubles in the water (and I have yet to see a swim diaper would be able to handle an atomic diarrhea strike) forcing the CDC to put the rules in place.

 

Smoothy hit the nail on the head.

Seacrcsvz, I do understand where you are coming from. However, as previous posts in this forum have shown, not all parents are willing to go the distance to be sure their toddler doesn't contaminate the pool. (One poster in particular stated something like "there were other diapered children in the pool, so I let my babies swim in the pool too.")

 

And, unfortunately, that's what would happen if the CDC made any exceptions whatsoever. One parent would get clearance, and then all the other parents would think "well, if THEY'RE doing it, why not our kids?" and promptly plunk their babies into the water, diarrhea and all.

 

As far as urine goes, yeah it's gross to swim in pee, but that's not the health issue that inspired the regulations. It's the potential contamination brought by feces in the pool.

[MrsPete]

My final point, if anyone has a 2 year old they will know that it is IMPOSSIBLE to tell him/her that they can not go in the pool along with their big brothers/sisters for the entire length of a cruise if no other options are provided!

The obvious answer is that a cruise vacation isn't right for all families. If one of your children cannot "legally" swim in the pools, this might not be the right time to put your family into what is certain to be a difficult, "no win" spot. The child will certainly be potty-trained by next year, and that might be the time to choose a cruise.

 

Alternately, if for some reason it's gotta be THIS YEAR, the child can swim in the ocean at every port stop. Admittedly, that's not ideal.

[ottawa_traveler]

Thank you for the well written informative post, seacrcsvz. I remember "showering" at the pool as a child, we hopped into the shower just enough to get out suits damp. No one ever told us WHY we were supposed to shower before entering the pool.

 

I've been swimming in public pools all my life, including several years as a competitive swimmer, and I had no idea that showering was supposed to reduce contamination by fecal material!:eek:

 

I always thought the shower rule was just to remove surface dirt. The fact that most pools don't enforce the shower rule only added to my misconception--if they're not enforcing it, it can't be that serious an issue, right? I have learned a lot by reading this thread.:)

 

Strangely enough, our local pool started enforcing this rule a few weeks ago, and the kids are now not allowed to get in the pool if they haven't showered with soap. Even still, I only told my kids to go have a quick shower, I certainly didn't tell them to drop their drawers and scrub their butts! I assumed the change of policy was due to the warm weather and the problem of sunscreen making the water cloudy, but now I wonder if they had a case or cases of crypto?

[Kim4]

On the Freedom last week, the deck patrol was VERY diligent about keeping the diapered babies in the splash zone and the non-diapered kids out. They were everywhere.

[Jill_GA]

I was on a cruise a few weeks ago and in the Water Works there was a baby in an actualy diaper, not swimmers. I have no problem with swimmers but a diaper? Nobody was back there to say anything but as soon as someone was, a bunch of people said something. I live in Atlanta and a few years ago there was the White Water incident where kids died from ecoli from the water in the little kid/toddler zone because someone brought their baby in wearing a diaper, not swimmers. Due to this, I still have issues with public pools but use them anyhow.

[seacrcsvz]

Interesting to see everyones responses to this post. I'm also pleasently surprised that I didn't have some irrate responses from people - thanks for that (not that I doubted any of you, but this is a touchy subjet and some people have very strong opinions). I really just wanted to inform people of the realities out there. But FYI, my little one is enroute to being toilet trained, so I shouldn't have issues with this when we cruise in 4 months time. But, like I said, Im not really all that worried about mine contaminating the pool - I will never let them swim if they have been sick, with diarrhea, etc., regardless of whether they wear diapers or not (my 6 year old, or even I, could spread crypto if we had had it, not just a baby in a diaper). It would be fabulous if more people were truly informed.

[sunandseagirl617]

On the Freedom last week, the deck patrol was VERY diligent about keeping the diapered babies in the splash zone and the non-diapered kids out. They were everywhere.

On Freedom, 6/14; the deck patrol tried to keep the diapered children out of the H20 zone, however, this was our experience:

 

Deck Patrol would ask the parent's to remove diapered child.

Parent would return with child with no diaper on OR they would endlessly argue with deck patrol.....until deck patrol gave in...:mad:

 

 

Passenger's would end up fighting with the child's parents regarding the rules and the children that were not effected ended up leaving, just for safety reasons!!:o

 

End result: Child pee'd in the H20 shower. (shower had to be closed)

Non-Potty trained child had an "accident" and a portion of the H20 zone closed for cleaning!:(

[kitty9]

My guess is that many of you weren't yet around during the polio epidemics in the 1940's and early to mid 1950's. Public pools were closed during the summer because polio was spread through infected fecal matter. That's how I caught the virus in 1955, from contaminated pool water. So if you think putting a non-potty trained child in a pool is no big deal, just remember polio. There are some pretty bad diseases still around right now, contained in feces and chlorine does not kill those viruses. Did you also know that when you have a child vaccinated, and if they use live viruses in the vaccine, that your child sloughs off the virus in their fecal matter? Some countries still use vaccines that have diluted live virus in their vaccines---the original polio vaccines contained live, but diluted virus---and fecal matter can infect anyone coming into contact with that matter.

 

Just remember that when you decide to take a diapered child in a public pool

[beachchick]

My guess is that many of you weren't yet around during the polio epidemics in the 1940's and early to mid 1950's. Public pools were closed during the summer because polio was spread through infected fecal matter. That's how I caught the virus in 1955, from contaminated pool water. So if you think putting a non-potty trained child in a pool is no big deal, just remember polio. There are some pretty bad diseases still around right now, contained in feces and chlorine does not kill those viruses. Did you also know that when you have a child vaccinated, and if they use live viruses in the vaccine, that your child sloughs off the virus in their fecal matter? Some countries still use vaccines that have diluted live virus in their vaccines---the original polio vaccines contained live, but diluted virus---and fecal matter can infect anyone coming into contact with that matter.

 

Just remember that when you decide to take a diapered child in a public pool

 

OMG, I'm so sorry about what happened to you. My DH and his sister were part of the Salk trials; she got the vaccine and he got the placebo. Thank the good Lord that neither were exposed that summer. (The family lived slightly north of Dobb's Ferry, New York, when there were plenty of cases.) Then, of course, they had to have the oral Sabin vaccine as well. My brother and I were among the first of the generation to receive the Sabin vaccine, but I am just enough older than he that I had the Salk injection first. As well, my brother and I were in the measles vaccine trials. He got the vaccine and I got the placebo, and I got a really bad case of measles. Totally unfair, IMO, considering that he's the annoying younger brother!

 

Thank you for giving a stark reality as to why it's so important to follow the health regulations. It's not just to protect others from an untrained child's, um, output; it's also to protect that child from exposure to that of others.

 

My best to you.

 

beachchick

[kitty9]

Thank you beachchick. I was diagnosed two months before the vaccine was distributed and I was two years old. Believe me, I know all about water borne infections and what they can produce. Many of today's young mothers don't have a clue as to what's contained in an infant's fecal matter and they don't understand the history of polio and what caused it's spread because they never lived it. It's not the urine that's the problem, but the other stuff.

 

But still, so many parents just shrug it off thinking nothing can happen from a little poop in a pool. There's a reason why the various health departments from around the world are now re-discovering the safety issues of fecal contamination.

[seacrcsvz]

They closed the shower because someone pee'd? Wow. That borders on ridiculous. Not that I want to be bathing in someones urine, but lets be honest and admit that kids must be peeing in the pool all the time - it's just that no one sees it!

[sailinglisa]

As was stated above, it is not the urine that is the problem, it is the fecal matter. And no, you cannot see the bacteria that runs off a small terd in the bottom of a pool. And no, swimmers do not hold the bacteria in.