"Agency issue"....???

[elliecat]

First, Karen I am very happy that your Agency problems have been solved. Nobody needs that kind of hassle re booking a cruise.

I thought that I would add a different point of view re this agency( I know I'll get blasted for this). At present, I have 3 cruises booked through this Agency. Full payment has been made in a timely fashion on the first 2 of these cruises.( Eurodam on Aug 27 and "O" Nautica on Oct 17). The third cruise on Oceania next year has been paid in full and yes, most of the payment has been retained by the "store" until final payment date. The 10% savings that this method of payment provided is important to me and allows me to cruise more. Each to his or her own, but this has been my experience with this agency.The particular agent(a leather tanner in a different life!!) has always been most helpful. John H

 

 

 

Cruiser John - This has been niggling away at me all day - how will you get your money back if the agency goes under if you have paid for a cruise next year in full and the money is retained by the agency and not paid onto the cruiseline- surely you will not be able to claim a chargeback from the credit card company as it will be way outside the 60 day period to do so?

 

It was difficult enough for me to get a credit for my double billing by this agency and I noticed the double charge within 2 weeks of it occurring.

 

This agent may have worked well for you in the past, and in fact often these scammers work on positive reviews from a select few to help perpetuate the scam - others think, oh they said it worked ok so it must be ok when in fact for the majority it is a nightmare, especially for those that get caught up in it at the end.

 

One thing I noticed on the site where agents compete for business is that the agent can close the cruise request themselves after you book before you have had a chance to place any feedback - I was unable to place any feedback about my problems with this agent and note that others may be misled if they look at the feedback comments because of this.

 

I would be interested in your comments regarding how you expect to get your money back if this agency folds up as I am concerned that you may be in for a lot of misery.

[jtl513]

This agent may have worked well for you in the past, and in fact often these scammers work on positive reviews from a select few to help perpetuate the scam - others think, oh they said it worked ok so it must be ok when in fact for the majority it is a nightmare, especially for those that get caught up in it at the end.

Or it could be that a mjority do get taken care of okay, and they prey on the big bookings that are a year or further away. I would think if they scammed nearly everybody the cruise lines would stop doing business with them.

 

But - as they say in the stock business: past performance is not a guarantee of future results!

[Jade13]

jtl513- That sounds about right. When I called the other day to make a "booking" the operator told me "All three of them are at lunch." I called back later and got someone named "RC". When I asked for his last name he wouldn't give it because "There are 3 Richard's in the office and all I needed to do was ask for "RC". At that point I figured I'd really jerk him around and told him I had between 20 and 26 people that wanted to go on a "Grand Voyage". In deluxe suites. He was eager to say the least............

 

too funny!!!!

[Jade13]

I just want to know if they advertise on CC? Thanks.

[HeatherInFlorida]

I just want to know if they advertise on CC? Thanks.

 

Jade, they are not in CC's list of Agencies at the top of the page. But I have no idea whether they advertise in one of the banners that pop up.

 

I will say, however, that one of the agencies in CC's list will often put the charge thru their agency before sending to the cruise line. They told me they do this when it's a group booking ... just easier, they said. And just because you're booking individually does NOT mean that they don't put you in a group. They do this quite frequently; I'm told they can often discount more when they can do that.

 

I told them putting the charge through the agency wasn't okay with me and they gave me no problem in putting the charge through Holland America. So it's always a good idea to ask no matter who you're dealing with.

 

In the end, if the charge goes through with the cruise line and not the agency you're home free and there will be no problem unless the cruise line goes down the tubes.

[nana541]

I specifically asked the credit card company if I could block charges from this TA. They said that was NOT possible.....I don't understand this policy. They said I just have to keep careful watch and if a charge shows up I would need to dispute it within 60 days. Hmmmmm.....my cruise is 67 days......hard to do!!

 

Yes I could cancel and get a new card........what a pain that would be....I have all my bills being paid automatically, etc. Sigh....again. BUT a MUCH smaller sigh than the last few days.

 

 

Karen,

Because there is FRAUD involved they WILL reissue cards with new numbers!! You simply need to speak to a Credit Card Co. employee who is further up the food chain.....I just did this on my own credit card with one of the BIG banks and it was no big deal....no paper work to fill out no reapplying they just reissued account with a new number.....

Call now and don't take no for an answer.....you have been a victim of FRAUD...

Congrats on getting the big ugly part of this resolved....

Enjoy your cruise.

[nana541]

I am SO grateful you did this Karen. I pray it gives you peace of mind on your cruise (I know it's giving me and a lot of others here peace of mind :D)

 

 

 

OH Thank God!!

[Kween Karen]

I have been wondering how much commission this agency made off of this fiasco. I am going to try to figure it out.....and will post it here if I do....I have some numbers to work with......thought it would be interesting for the followers of this story.

[Goldryder]

I have been wondering how much commission this agency made off of this fiasco. I am going to try to figure it out.....and will post it here if I do....I have some numbers to work with......thought it would be interesting for the followers of this story.

 

Here in the UK a TA can earn around 15-25% commission dependent on the cruise line, which on the face of it doesn't sound alot, but if you are selling the high end or multiple cabin (such as extended families or group) cruises, it soon mounts up.

 

Some TA's pass part or all of that commission onto the client as discount since most cruise lines tend to frown upon discounting over here.

[pms4104]

I have been wondering how much commission this agency made off of this fiasco. I am going to try to figure it out.....and will post it here if I do....I have some numbers to work with......thought it would be interesting for the followers of this story.

I would question whether this agent/agency made much if any commission off your booking ... likely that is part of what HAL's Tracy called "negotiating". And, even if they get any commission for your or anyone else's booking ... my guess it those monies go into their legal defense fund to cover past, current, future issues.

[LAFFNVEGAS]

Remember TA's commission is based on the base fare of the cruise not the taxes and port fees. The commission is also based on the volume produced with a particular cruise line. If they have not hit targeted goals set by the cruise line the percentage they receive is reduced a lot. For Karen's cruise I would imagine that the dollar amount of the commission was quite nice but it is also possible with this fiasco HAL may of not paid them either. So Karen unless HAL told you that they were paying them their commission.....

I know many think that TA's make big money, well let me tell you it takes many many cruises sold for an agency to make any kind of money. So I can see why many in this economy are having problems. Then their agents will only get a fraction of what HAL pays them because of course they need the money to operate the business.

For example a 7 day Oosterdam cruise doing the Mexican Riviera in a Verandah the commission could be anywhere from $90.00 to $200 for double occupancy to the cabin. The actual agent will only get a small fraction of that amount. Especially if they run an on line agency and discount in any way. Obviously the amount paid for an Ocean View and Inside cabin is drastically less due to the pricing. (Remember taxes and ports fees are the same for an Inside as they are for the Penthouse.) On the same sailing for an Inside the agency my only make $36.00 and the actual TA who did all the work may only make $1.80 but yet did as much work for the cruise as they would for a client they sold an SA suite to and some times even more work.

I think sometimes we think that our TA's should be giving away the Moon with ship board credit and wine yet they themselves have made absolutely nothing.

Sorry for the rant :o I know that once Karen posts what she thinks that the TA made everyone will start jumping to conclusions that their TA's make big money when in fact the amount is not that large on the average cruise.

[operafan]

Thanks, Lisa. That was really interesting. (And something I never thought about before.........)

[Kween Karen]

Lisa...thanks for the information...it tells a lot.

But believe me....when I am looking at the figures I have.....it doesn't look like the TA made any big bucks on this deal!

[patseacruiser]

And I'm thinking that you might think that TA made a lot of money but unless they do a big volume they don't sell big cruises or high end cabins every day.

[taxmantoo]

On the same sailing for an Inside the agency my only make $36.00 and the actual TA who did all the work may only make $1.80 but yet did as much work for the cruise as they would for a client they sold an SA suite to and some times even more work.

 

I think sometimes we think that our TA's should be giving away the Moon with ship board credit and wine yet they themselves have made absolutely nothing.

 

 

 

OMG... now I feel so bad that I think on our next cruise I will withdraw the auto-tipping and send the money to our travel agent instead !!!!

[whogo]

Remember TA's commission is based on the base fare of the cruise not the taxes and port fees. The commission is also based on the volume produced with a particular cruise line. If they have not hit targeted goals set by the cruise line the percentage they receive is reduced a lot. For Karen's cruise I would imagine that the dollar amount of the commission was quite nice but it is also possible with this fiasco HAL may of not paid them either. So Karen unless HAL told you that they were paying them their commission.....

I know many think that TA's make big money, well let me tell you it takes many many cruises sold for an agency to make any kind of money. So I can see why many in this economy are having problems. Then their agents will only get a fraction of what HAL pays them because of course they need the money to operate the business.

 

For example a 7 day Oosterdam cruise doing the Mexican Riviera in a Verandah the commission could be anywhere from $90.00 to $200 for double occupancy to the cabin. The actual agent will only get a small fraction of that amount. Especially if they run an on line agency and discount in any way. Obviously the amount paid for an Ocean View and Inside cabin is drastically less due to the pricing. (Remember taxes and ports fees are the same for an Inside as they are for the Penthouse.) On the same sailing for an Inside the agency my only make $36.00 and the actual TA who did all the work may only make $1.80 but yet did as much work for the cruise as they would for a client they sold an SA suite to and some times even more work.

 

I think sometimes we think that our TA's should be giving away the Moon with ship board credit and wine yet they themselves have made absolutely nothing.

 

Sorry for the rant :o I know that once Karen posts what she thinks that the TA made everyone will start jumping to conclusions that their TA's make big money when in fact the amount is not that large on the average cruise.

 

This is one of the reasons I gave up looking for a "good" travel agent. I was always pressured to buy a more expensive cabin. It would have increased the TA's commission, but not my satisfaction. Sorry, not interested, an inside cabin suits me fine.

[lvtotrvl1]

This is one of the reasons I gave up looking for a "good" travel agent. I was always pressured to buy a more expensive cabin. It would have increased the TA's commission, but not my satisfaction. Sorry, not interested, an inside cabin suits me fine.

 

A good agent would not do that....and the price difference really would not be enough to lose a client over.

[LAFFNVEGAS]

This is one of the reasons I gave up looking for a "good" travel agent. I was always pressured to buy a more expensive cabin. It would have increased the TA's commission, but not my satisfaction. Sorry, not interested, an inside cabin suits me fine.

I am sorry but I also agree that a good agent would not do that.

But isn't that what happens with everything we want to purchase:rolleyes: You go to the bank and they want you to open more accounts, you purchase a car they want you to buy more excessories or service contracts, you go to a shoe store and they want you to buy another pair because you get 50% of the 2nd pair. Come on that is the way the world is now.

Just this weekend we went to a local indoor outlet mall and I said to my husband that if I did not know better I would think we were walking around in Cabo San Lucas Mexico. Every 10 feet was a vendor trying to sell us something and grabbing us. I swear one of them said we are cheaper than Wal Mart :D Do you want to get your rings cleaned, look at this great shammy, try this perfume.......on and on. Trust me that is the way of life and especially with this economy it will only continue.

[pms4104]

As for the agency commission ... I believe the amount is negotiated with HAL based on a variety of factors, including how much business, new or otherwise, is generated by that agency or agency network. All part of the contractual agreement that benefits HAL with bookings and the agency with revenue.

 

For the individual travel agents ... I would surmise the commission and/or salary also is either contractually agreed between the agency and agent or is part of one's employment agreement. Something we're forgetting here when discussing agents making peanuts is that some or many may, in addition to any agreed-upon commission split, also receive a salary from the agency. In return, of course, they likely have set sales goals which, based on how well one achieves or exceeds those goals, may determine the level of commission split.

 

My guess is that there also are times when agencies or agents may receive special additional promo incentives or commissions for certain cruiselines or sailings ... sell this sailing or cabin category or whatever and get extra $$$ beyond the initial agreed amount of commission.

[Cruisin' Chick]

There are several RED FLAGS that should tell you to RUN

 

1)if a TA offers a discount for paying in full well ahead of final payment date RUN

 

2)If they ask you to pay cash or cheque to the agency..RUN

 

3)if the payment you make goes to the agency & not the cruise line RUN

 

4)check your cruise line account & if the payment does not show in 2 days after payment is made...CALL the TA & the cruiseline TAKE ACTION RIGHT AWAY

 

 

I am so glad HAL came thru for you. Someone mentioned this thread in another area of CC so I had to come read it. The problem was I can only use the computer at home when it's cool enough (and we've had temps over 100 for a couple of weeks now...an ancient AC that's ready to quit so we have to use it spareingly, and when I finally get online close to midnight Pacific time, this site won't load pages. So it's been difficult to read the thread in one seating at the library or early in the morning (on those mornings I can go online). Up to page 28, but I wanted to repeat the info above.

 

It's too bad there's not a way to warn the general public, but cruise sites can come a log way to inform those new to cruising about these scams.

[eleanordew]

Hi, all -- I'm glad to hear that the Karen's problem has been solved. But this thread has brought up a question about how to get one's money back when the payment was charged over 60 days before.

 

I found a very interesting travel board at flyertalk.com with a thread that might address this problem.

 

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/travel-safety-security/978737-recovering-pre-paid-memberships-clear.html

 

The thread is entitled: Recovering Prepaid Memberships, and the particular post that I found useful was post #28.

 

Basically, the story is this: the CLEAR service (for frequent travelers) went out of business recently, and many of its former customers had already renewed memberships outside that 60-day window. AMEX was refusing to return their money for the unprovided services because the charges were made over 60 days before. Because disputes about the quality of goods and services (i.e., non-performance) are not "billing errors," the dispute procedure (the 60-day limit) does not apply. When the FCBA info at the website below was pointed out to them (read to them over the phone), AMEX returned the unused portion of the membership fee.

 

The Fair Credit Billing Act :

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/consumer/credit/cre16.shtm

 

Perhaps this info could be useful for cruise travel in which large deposits are made many months before the "performance" of the services.

 

Cheers! eleanordew

[Charliesmom]

This is really good information. I have printed out the FTC link you have provided.

Thank you.

 

Roberta

[tksail]

Karen- I have just read this entire thread and am so glad to hear that you had a happy ending. I was alerted to this thread by a friend who knew I had a similar experience with the SAME ENTITY.

 

I was charged THREE times for the same Princess Cruise. It turns out that the agency everyone now knows the name of ALSO operates under another name. They charged me first under the one agency in August, then again under the second agency in September, then sent my credit card #s to Princess who charged me again in November (legitimately), over $3500 each time.

 

It took FOUR months to remove the first overcharge and NINE months to remove the second overcharge. The ordeal lasted from August 08 to June 09. My credit card company could not comprehend that the travel agency had two names and at first believed all were legitimate charges. I was emotionally, physically, and mentally drained by the time it was over, but thank goodness, it is over!!

 

Thank goodness I, too, had a great support system through Cruise Critic people who became good friends on the boards.

 

So many people on this thread have given good advice. I am glad that you changed your credit card #.

 

 

In my situation, because I was so trusting and traveling at the same time, I did not know about the overcharges until November 2008, 90 days after the first charge and over sixty days after the second charge. By then the agency (under 2 names) was into me for over $7500. The agency gave my card info to Princess to actually pay the $3750+ for the cruise in November. The charge card people (Visa) told me that I could dispute the charges anyway.

 

My difficulty was convincing Visa that the two agencies were really one entity. That part took until June 2009. As I said before, I got to the point where I took names, supervisor badge numbers or ids, date, and time. It was useless to talk to anyone else. At one point a Visa supervisor got the agency on the phone while I was on the phone. Once Visa had the money back from the agency it still took 60 days for Visa to clear my account-apparently waiting for the agency to dispute the problem. Believe me, I did not understand everything that was going on.

 

I would never do business with this agency again and it is very difficult to understand how they are still in business.

 

When some on this board reported that the agency has even been scrutinized by the Florida media, I couldn't believe how they still are operating.

 

With so many people now aware of what is going on, this agency won't last.

 

And, Princess wanted nothing to do with the situation. My husband told me that when he went on the agency's site today, Princess cruises are not listed as an option.

[Kween Karen]

Things certainly are much nicer here on this Monday than they were LAST Monday. i am dreaming peacefully again.

I am having to guess at this a little. I know exactly (of course) what I paid originally to the agency and I have subtracted the refund I (FINALLY) got from then when the prices dropped. I know the amount of the deposit to HAL, a check the agency sent them in March and the total HAL told me was still owed. Working with all these figures my math tells me that the agency actually LOST $647.70. I find that hard to believe.....

The only other scenario I can think of is that the commission came out of that final payment and they didn't have to send in the total that was still owed.

I would normally feel bad that a TA hadn't made anything or actually lost money.....but in THIS case I do not feel bad.......they used my money for 16 months so maybe that is their commission!!

[Goldryder]

Thank goodness that in the UK all TA's are tightly regulated and something like this would not happen....or at least things do not get this far advanced.

 

Yes, they can go out of business and yes, they do get caught out but we as customers rarely - if ever - need to worry about something as disgraceful as has happened in Karen's case happening to us.

 

To become a TA here it is alot harder than in the US, you have to be registered by law to ABTA (Association of British Travel Agents) and they keep a close eye on you - they also act on the customer's behalf if there is a serious problem with a TA or if the TA goes out of business, they will get you home.

 

http://www.abta.com/home

 

If a TA sells flights either independently or in packages, they must belong to ATOL (Air Travel Organisers Licensing) aswell, so again if an airline collapses or a problem arises with the TA, they will act on your behalf and get you home, ATOL is a part of out Civil Aviation Authority (equivalent to the US FAA)..

 

http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=27

 

When in the UK, we have so many ways of covering ourselves against TA problems...and tour operator/cruise line/airline problems...that the US do not have. If a TA (online or high street) do not have the membership seals of the above two government sponsored organisations, we walk away. And they do clamp down hard on any TA that shafts their clients and they will close them down, it is never left the a cruise line or tour operator to drop them from their books, ABTA and ATOL will close you down and they will do everything they can to get clients home if stuck abroad due to a TA collapse etc.

 

Maybe the US could do with something similar to keep out the rogues such as the one featured here on this thread.