Smoking onboard

How about this for a marketing campaign, Seattle head office?

"Book your next cruise on Seabourn! We want all those discerning smokers who could give a hoot about their neighbors on their verandas - who expect to use them without the risks that second hand smoke delivers- and those who are self-absorbed enough to drive out any and all of those same people in the Observation Bars after 20:00 which, in connection with our award winning profiles, turn into the largest smokers' lounges of any cruise line. That's Seabourn in 2016!"

That's where we are as of today, 16 April, 2016.

Imagine that!

Happy cruising!

Done. (Well, the comment is "awaiting moderation" -- it will be interesting to see if it gets released or gets deleted by management.) I hope other like-minded cruisers will do the same.

 

The link is here: http://bitly.com/1SlUWUv

Re the Seabourn blog and the new Observation bar, I have put my comment on too and mine has also gone for checking. It was very polite, honest ;)

I haven't cruised Seabourn that often (yet) but whether or not smoking is an issue is the luck of the draw... Have smokers on the balcony next door? Game over.

I have just filled out my post-cruise survey and gave them an earful. Jenidallas is 100% correct (as we discussed many time onboard), as in MBSILK (same discussions onboard). I am going to remain optimistic that with officers that also back a smoking ban something will change. Hopefully sooner rather than later.

For what it's worth, we spoke with several people onboard that could not use their balconies because of the neighbors' smoking....

Then let's all post on their face book site. I am just about to! And done

We just received our suite assignment and got a nice bump up. Now let's hope our neighbors are not smokers.

Cigar smoking at the pool bar on Regent Voyager is one of the main reasons we never went back to Regent. It was the only outside bar which severely restricted its use for us and the smell wafted up to the walking track on the deck above. Regent also allowed smoking in the casino and in one of the other lounges.

I don't know when you last sailed with Regent, but smoking is now restricted to one corner of the pool area, the outdoor deck behind the Horizon lounge, and the entirely contained smoking lounge. No smoking at the pool bar, and definitely none in suites or on balconies. Yes, the corner of the pool area does get quite obnoxious, but it is easy to avoid by simply using the other side of the deck.

I don't know when you last sailed with Regent, but smoking is now restricted to one corner of the pool area, the outdoor deck behind the Horizon lounge, and the entirely contained smoking lounge. No smoking at the pool bar, and definitely none in suites or on balconies. Yes, the corner of the pool area does get quite obnoxious, but it is easy to avoid by simply using the other side of the deck.

Sorry, forgot to add that there is no smoking in the casino either.

We just finished our Seabourn survey for our recently completed cruise. This is what we wrote regarding smoking on the verandas:

Smoking on the verandas continues to be a problem for us. On both Seabourn cruises we were unlucky to have a smoker near us who prevented us from using our veranda on many occasions. We feel this is a health issue that Seabourn should address as well as an issue of fair use for what we have paid for. There are other places on the ship where people can go to smoke. Verandas should not be an option. There are other equal cruise lines that prohibit smoking on the verandas from which we can choose.

Doubt if we will get a response but at least we have voiced our opinion.

Seabourn have a lovely picture of the new observation lounge on the encore on their blog with the opportunity to post comments. Might be an opportunity to suggest they don't contaminate it from the off?

 

Done. (Well, the comment is "awaiting moderation" -- it will be interesting to see if it gets released or gets deleted by management.) I hope other like-minded cruisers will do the same.

 

The link is here: http://bitly.com/1SlUWUv

Re the Seabourn blog and the new Observation bar, I have put my comment on too and mine has also gone for checking. It was very polite, honest ;)

Well, Seabourn management, or a least the staff responsible for their website, has revealed their true colors. The comments we both submitted, which were "awaiting moderation" have been deleted. The blog post shows 0 comments, and nothing that is pending. I guess I understand that they don't want the issue raised on a site that's a marketing vehicle, but it's disappointing nonetheless that they create a forum on their site and then censor it to only allow comments they want. (If they didn't want comments, they didn't have to enable them on the site.)

They did allow it on the Facebook site though - a bit to the side and also about 3 of us have asked for the new Observation bar to be non-smoking. They said on my general non smoking post that it was a fine balance but they would take my views into consideration.

We just finished our Seabourn survey for our recently completed cruise. This is what we wrote regarding smoking on the verandas:

 

Smoking on the verandas continues to be a problem for us. On both Seabourn cruises we were unlucky to have a smoker near us who prevented us from using our veranda on many occasions. We feel this is a health issue that Seabourn should address as well as an issue of fair use for what we have paid for. There are other places on the ship where people can go to smoke. Verandas should not be an option. There are other equal cruise lines that prohibit smoking on the verandas from which we can choose.

 

Doubt if we will get a response but at least we have voiced our opinion.

We did the same. As I posted earlier, I think that this is a live issue at corporate. However, while ships are sailing full and while 375 out of 450 are repeat customers (our last cruise), the power resides with Seabourn.

Every product from candy to cars to cruise lines must have a Unique Selling Proposition. Seabourn's USP is its "generous" smoking policy and for all the non or anti smokers who take their business elsewhere in protest, there are still a significant number of grateful smokers who are more than happy to spend their $$$ with Seabourn rather than someone else precisely because they can indulge their habit with fewer restrictions. I'm sure the marketing people have done a lot of analysis on demographics and they obviously believe that keeping smokers happy still outweighs upsetting everyone else. It's purely a business decision, not a health one.

Every product from candy to cars to cruise lines must have a Unique Selling Proposition. Seabourn's USP is its "generous" smoking policy and for all the non or anti smokers who take their business elsewhere in protest, there are still a significant number of grateful smokers who are more than happy to spend their $$$ with Seabourn rather than someone else precisely because they can indulge their habit with fewer restrictions. I'm sure the marketing people have done a lot of analysis on demographics and they obviously believe that keeping smokers happy still outweighs upsetting everyone else. It's purely a business decision, not a health one.

I fear you may be correct.

We make our final payment in a couple of weeks and have decided to stick to plan and give SB a go and hope we are lucky with non smoking neighbours.

We are looking forward to our cruise but if the smoking is an issue will re-visit other options in the future.

In our community smokers are very much a minority now. We do not have any smokers in our extensive family and circle of friends, whilst 25 - 30 years ago it would have been 50/50. Now we only smell it on the city streets and it is quite affronting.

I believe smokers need their place but it should be situated where it least offends the majority.

Bev

Glad we read this thread. We were excited about an cruise in Asia next year but now having serious second thought about going on Seabourn because of their policy regarding smoking on verandas. Just doesn't make sense re fire risk.

AND we wouldn't appreciate "sharing" our veranda with smoking neighbors.

Very disappointed but will keep monitoring here for a few months til final payment. Hoping Seabourn will change their policy re smoking on verandas.....maybe before pigs start to fly?

We recently completed a 71 day cruise on the Quest, Valparaiso to Monte Carlo and our only major complaint, and in my opinion a huge one as we detest smoking and we are both asthmatics, was their smoking policy.

Seabourn allow smoking on any private balcony which means if your neighbours smoke you also get the smoke and it permeates into your cabin. On half of rear deck five which means the wind can blow the smoke across to the non smoking side. On half of rear deck seven where smoke is easily smelt as it doesn't even need to blow across as a smoker can be right next to you. On starboard side of deck nine which is where the sky bar is situated and also where the jogging track runs through, also the cabins on this level exit here. And probably the worst area of all is the Observation Lounge where the pianist plays, we only had a couple of very heavy smokers, both cigarettes and cigars and the whole room was filled with putrid smoke which stung my eyes, so much that it seeped out into the corridor and into the lifts and stair well. Our hair and clothes also smelled of smoke which meant the smell was brought back into our cabin. After just long enough time to order a drink we had to leave as I had a severe asthma attack.

I wrote several emails expressing the discomfort we experienced and how we were unable to have the enjoyment of so many areas of the ship, including our own balcony and Seabourn's response was that they had to be fair to all passengers.

Until Seabourn change their policy we will not sail with them again. We have never had any smoking issues with Regent or Silver Seas in past cruises.

Jenwin

Like you we have just completed a cruise with Seabourn and experienced the smoke/cigar filled den of the Observation Lounge. I wrote several emails complaining about Seabourn's out of date smoking policy and was told they had no intention of changing their current policy

That was our last cruise with Seabourn until the smoking policy is changed

Darn....sounds like everything except for Seabourn's smoking policy would be a great match for us. We could stay away from the bars and other areas where smoking is allowed but not on verandas.

Will stay with cruise lines that have a NO-smoking policy on verandas as well as suites.

VERY disappointed.

Our family would love to cruise Seabourn, but we have been waiting for Seabourn to change the smoking policy for the verandas. We can work around the rest. We will continue to choose Silversea or other lines until things change. However, things will only change if the market demands it. With such small ships that may not happen unless the non smoking regulars take another option. Can't really blame Seabourn for doing what works.

I'm sure the marketing people have done a lot of analysis on demographics and they obviously believe that keeping smokers happy still outweighs upsetting everyone else. It's purely a business decision, not a health one.

Two comments. As various cities and states in the US enacted smoking bans in public places, including bars and restaurants, business was certainly a consideration but health won out as the more important issue. And, not too surprisingly, most businesses which feared they would be badly hurt by a smoking ban were not. So heath can and does trump business in some decisions; Seabourn is just on the wrong (in my opinion) side of this one.

You also are making an assumption that Seabourn figures it can sell more cabins if it caters to smokers. Maybe -- but maybe not. Just read some of the comments above, and in all the other smoking threads on this forum (a small sample, to be sure) to see people who won't try Seabourn, or return to Seabourn, until the smoking policy changes.

Since there are more non-smokers than smokers nowadays, at least in the US, it's not clear that the math would come out on the side of catering to smokers. And the ratio of nonsmokers to smokers will only grow over time, as older generations which grew up smoking give way to generations which grew up knowing the health hazards of smoking. Please understand I'm not lecturing on whether people should smoke or not, simply talking about the purely business issues of changing demographics.

Eric

Proposed new rule.

Smokers must attend spa sessions on their products.

. . .

You also are making an assumption that Seabourn figures it can sell more cabins if it caters to smokers. Maybe -- but maybe not. Just read some of the comments above, and in all the other smoking threads on this forum (a small sample, to be sure) to see people who won't try Seabourn, or return to Seabourn, until the smoking policy changes.

 

Since there are more non-smokers than smokers nowadays, at least in the US, it's not clear that the math would come out on the side of catering to smokers. And the ratio of nonsmokers to smokers will only grow over time, as older generations which grew up smoking give way to generations which grew up knowing the health hazards of smoking. Please understand I'm not lecturing on whether people should smoke or not, simply talking about the purely business issues of changing demographics.

 

Eric

Actually, based on demographics, the number of smokers on seabourn may not decrease. From the CDC:

Current cigarette smoking was higher among persons aged 18–24 years, 25–44 years, and 45–64 years than among those aged 65 years and older.

Nearly 17 of every 100 adults aged 18–24 years (16.7%)

20 of every 100 adults aged 25–44 years (20.0%)

18 of every 100 adults aged 45–64 years (18.0%)

Nearly 9 of every 100 adults aged 65 years and older (8.5%)

So, if the average age of a Seabourn passenger drops from over 65 to mid 40, the rate of smoking goes up, not down. And we know that Seabourn is trying to lower their age demographics. So it doesn't look good for the future.

We hear from vociferous non/anti smokers in these discussions, but I'd also be interested in the smokers' point of view and whether Seabourn's smoking policy makes it their preferred choice. I assume they are perfectly happy with the current arrangement and don't want to "rock the boat" by upsetting the status quo. And knowing how passionate people can be on the subject, I'm sure the smokers prefer to keep their guilty secret. For the record, I am a lifelong non-smoker.

And I agree that by targeting a younger demographic, Seabourn is in fact MORE likely to appeal to smokers (see stats above).

The future of Seabourn's customer satisfaction regarding its smoking policies depends on Seabourn's management doing what I would call "the right thing" by banning smoking in the Observation Bars and verandas.

It does not matter at all if a younger demographic smokes more or less. What does matter is how conscientious these people are when they think about the welfare of nonsmokers. Younger people get it; they've heard most or all of their lives that second hand smoke is harmful to others.

Back to Seabourn: Just formalize the program and comply with the overwhelming wishes of the public, including those of smokers who already get the message. Just conform to the standards that your competitors established in recent years in recognition of their new, next, smarter, and informed passengers out there. They are your demographic too. No more excuses.

Happy and healthy sailing!

I continue to be amazed that Seabourn leaves itself open to future litigation from crew members by allowing smoking in the work environment eg the Observation Lounge in the evenings after 8 pm. (Apart from alienating the majority of the guests from using the facility.)

I also cannot understand why Seabourn does not have a dedicated smoking room, such as is seen in most modern airports, where the air is vented overboard.

Deck 6 starboard aft. could easily and cheaply be enclosed as a glass room for this purpose.

We have cruised twice on Seabourn little sisters and because we had no balcony, we were not troubled by smokers. We did not use the observation lounge in the evening.

Our next Seabourn cruise is on Sojourn, and we will have a balcony. We will be hugely disappointed if we cannot use this facility because of inconsiderate smokers in nearby balconies.

Like Jakes47, in our circle of family and friends no-one smokes, and my OH and I are life long non smokers.

Come on Seabourn make it more comfortable for non-smokers and stop pandering to the minority. In the UK we have very strict rules about smoking in restaurants, bars and other inside public places; it simply isn't allowed.