Smoking onboard

[jenidallas]

I continue to be amazed that Seabourn leaves itself open to future litigation from crew members by allowing smoking in the work environment eg the Observation Lounge in the evenings after 8 pm.

 

I think you underestimate how many of the crew members smoke themselves. It is unlikely we will ever see the shop go 100% smoke-free as that would almost be encouraging a fire on decks 2/3. I do think Seabourn needs to get with the times and restrict smoking to specific outdoor aft public balconies and perhaps a dedicated and separately-ventilated smoking room.

[markham]

Sorry, Jenidallas, but I don't think your view makes sense.

 

Just because a crew member smokes would not invalidate or de-legitimize his or her claim that he or she was assigned a smoking area to work in when Seabourn knows full well that second hand smoking is injurious to health. That's the point SKP946 made.

 

And no one said Seabourn should be smoke free. We are talking about the indoor(!) Observation Bars and verandas. There are outdoor smoking areas already elsewhere where passengers and crew are allowed to smoke. No one is asking for these areas to be curtailed.

 

Happy and healthy sailing!

[wally_bushy]

We have cruised twice on Seabourn little sisters and because we had no balcony, we were not troubled by smokers. We did not use the observation lounge in the evening.

 

Our next Seabourn cruise is on Sojourn, and we will have a balcony. We will be hugely disappointed if we cannot use this facility because of inconsiderate smokers in nearby balconies.

 

Like Jakes47, in our circle of family and friends no-one smokes, and my OH and I are life long non smokers.

 

Come on Seabourn make it more comfortable for non-smokers and stop pandering to the minority. In the UK we have very strict rules about smoking in restaurants, bars and other inside public places; it simply isn't allowed.

 

I am not sure I know the difference between considerate and inconsiderate balcony smokers.

You can either smoke or not smoke on balconies. As I have posted a number of times it is probably the single reason I will not cruise with them. Alternatively there are others who would say it is the single reason they do cruise with them.

Edited May 2, 2016 by wally_bushy

[Jay23]

I am not sure I know the difference between considerate and inconsiderate balcony smokers.

You can either smoke or not smoke on balconies. As I have posted a number of times it is probably the single reason I will not cruise with them. Alternatively there are others who would say it is the single reason they do cruise with them.

 

You may be right :)

[jenidallas]

Sorry, Jenidallas, but I don't think your view makes sense.

 

Just because a crew member smokes would not invalidate or de-legitimize his or her claim that he or she was assigned a smoking area to work in when Seabourn knows full well that second hand smoking is injurious to health. That's the point SKP946 made.

 

It actually makes perfect sense depending on which country's smoking laws you are discussing. Some countries have workplace smoking laws that do not allow for smoking anywhere in the workplace (including a designated area) which would define the "workplace" as the ship. Some are job duty area specific (where the ship could have designated areas).

 

But alas, none of this matters on a Bahamas registered ship as they have no bans on workplace smoking of any type. So I'm uncertain how a worker could bring about a suit easily.

[stamfordian]

It actually makes perfect sense depending on which country's smoking laws you are discussing. Some countries have workplace smoking laws that do not allow for smoking anywhere in the workplace (including a designated area) which would define the "workplace" as the ship. Some are job duty area specific (where the ship could have designated areas).

 

But alas, none of this matters on a Bahamas registered ship as they have no bans on workplace smoking of any type. So I'm uncertain how a worker could bring about a suit easily.

 

However, I suggest the registry of the ship is immaterial. Carnival Corp and Carnival plc are joint registered US and UK corporations with registered offices in Miami Fl and Southampton England respectively.

 

Surely, you would not sue the ship, or the ship's officers, rather the shipowners and the corporate entity with whom your contract to work was signed.

[markham]

I have to agree with Stamfordian. Where the lawsuit is adjudicated is what counts and matters.

 

We are talking about health being compromised through second hand smoke in an indoor area that the crew member was ordered to work in. If such a case were heard in a US or UK court, Seabourn would have to comply with its ruling. No ifs, ands or buts. After all, crew and passengers don't sign their rights away when they claim redress on account of these ships' Bahamas registry.

 

People always come first. That's fair.

 

Happy and healthy sailing!

[jenidallas]

I love the idealism! I'm curious how well it would fare if staff decided to file a grievance for working conditions? All of the articles I've read about Carnival Corporation's labor practices suggest it would not end well. But perhaps you guys have more familiarity with Seabourn's labor contracts than I do.

[Mr Luxury]

Does the fact that the ship is at sea play any part to rules and regs like it does re tax when crew get paid.

[tv24]

I love the idealism as well, and I love this mission. I hope it ends well, on the side of health and safety.

 

We recently received notice of an incredible Seabourn cruise from Ft. Lauderdale to Santiago, via Antarctica! 45 days and at a very good price. Very seductive. Alas, we already have great travel plans for fall, 2016, so we did not jump, but we are open to returning to Seabourn. The smoking policy does indeed give us some degree of hesitation.

[kiawahdon]

The perfect plaintiff is the lounge piano player-many hours every day in a death trap.

[MrsWaldo]

Surely a savvy lawyer will be able to say the rules apply to the registry...

after all the alcohol,laws do..

 

even if you are in a place where 18 is legal drinking age you can't drink until you are 21 due to registry rules??

 

So ergo... smoking rules maybe able to be defaulted to the same place

 

(Not defending...jusss sayin)

[markham]

"Savvy" lawyers who represent hospitailty companies that flout worker safety best practice are no concern of mine at all. Obviously, you can pay them to represent anything you want, apart, possibly that inhalng carcinogenic smoke is good for one's health.

 

So now it's back to the cruise line industry... What does count in the marketing game is to deliver what the customer demands and the staff expect so that the hospitality firm improves its reputation. That's it. And the overwhelming majority of Seabourn's paying customers appear to agree that smoking on verandas and in the indoor Observation Bars are practices that are harmful to their health and welfare. Ditto for the staff.

 

Happy and healthy sailing!

[stamfordian]

Surely a savvy lawyer will be able to say the rules apply to the registry...

after all the alcohol,laws do..

 

even if you are in a place where 18 is legal drinking age you can't drink until you are 21 due to registry rules??

 

So ergo... smoking rules maybe able to be defaulted to the same place

 

(Not defending...jusss sayin)

 

Don't think so Mrs W. The registry is Bahamas where the legal drinking age is 18.

 

Seabourn bans under 21's from drinking alcohol - basing it presumably on US law, certainly not UK where it is also 18, although Carnival Corp and Carnival plc are jointly registered in UK and USA.

[Able Seaman H]

Yes, the 21 rule is purely down to the US owners of Seabourn deciding that's what they are going to stipulate. From the outside it does seem queer that you can go off to fight for your country but not enjoy a cold Budweiser on your return.

 

The reality is that cruise companies have had to fall in line with their audience particularly when it comes to alcohol and 18-21 year old guests. In the main they are happy to serve beer, wine and cider. You have to remember that in the UK it is legal for 16 year olds upwards to drink beer, wine and cider whilst accompanied by an adult and eating a table meal.

 

My experience is that Seabourn take a sensible and balanced approach when cruising outside American waters.

 

Henry :)

[MrsWaldo]

On our first SB in Russia they enforced the no alcohol very firmly.... (my daughter was 18 so totally legal here) and I had discussions with higher up who said "It's part of our registry" (I thought it odd as I know the ships are Nassau)

 

On our second cruise it depended on the bar staff as to whether they would serve, and NEVER ever, in the MDR

[Host Jazzbeau]

Yes, the 21 rule is purely down to the US owners of Seabourn deciding that's what they are going to stipulate. From the outside it does seem queer that you can go off to fight for your country but not enjoy a cold Budweiser on your return...

Henry :)

 

When I was growing up in NY in the 1960s, you could drink at 18 but you couldn't vote until 21. Then they both changed. I told my kids it was a bad swap!

[kathy16]

My last SB cruise was a 2 week Med cruise in April 2015. It was a nice cruise, except for the smoking in the usual places, and I was often unable to enjoy my balcony, due to someone smoking, but sometimes couldn't figure where exactly the stench was coming from, since my neighbors didn't appear to be smoking (that I could see).

I have not booked a SB cruise since, so I AM voting with my feet!!!

Hurrah for re- invigorating the "smoking thread"- - when SB changes their smoking policy, I may change my mind about booking them

[notjaded]

My last SB cruise was a 2 week Med cruise in April 2015. It was a nice cruise, except for the smoking in the usual places, and I was often unable to enjoy my balcony, due to someone smoking, but sometimes couldn't figure where exactly the stench was coming from, since my neighbors didn't appear to be smoking (that I could see).

I have not booked a SB cruise since, so I AM voting with my feet!!!

Hurrah for re- invigorating the "smoking thread"- - when SB changes their smoking policy, I may change my mind about booking them

 

With whom are you sailing?

 

Currently on first SB, and love it, except for upwind neighbor who smokes nonstop. Maybe our last SB cruise unless corporate decides to change policy.

[Les Picantins]

Several years ago while enjoying my veranda one early morning in the middle of the Pacific (on the Odyssey), two days away from land in either direction, a lit cigarette fell out of the sky and hit me in the chest before bouncing off and ending up who knows where. There were ashes on my bathrobe. I sometimes wonder what would have happened had I still been asleep and that cigarette ended up landing on my balcony.

[rafinmd]

With whom are you sailing?

 

Currently on first SB, and love it, except for upwind neighbor who smokes nonstop. Maybe our last SB cruise unless corporate decides to change policy.

 

Looks like her last cruise was on the Wind Surf. Kind of interesting that they neither allow nor prohibit balconies, they just don't have any. It seems to me that if you're willing to sail without a balcony on other lines that kind of reduces the validity of refusing to sail Seabourn, when you can sail without a balcony on Seabourn as well. While service was excellent on Windstar, I expect it to be at least as good on Seabourn.

 

Roy

[NJBelle]

Hi all, I am just back from an A&K tour of China. Trip was fabulous, but what I wanted to report is that despite China's being one of the most smoke-friendly countries in the world (and reportedly smoking 1/3 of all the world's cigarettes), even they are taking people's health to heart (no pun intended). In Beijing, since June 1, 2015, there is a law in effect banning smoking in hotels, bars, restaurants, tourist places, etc. Really. And we also went on a cruise on the Yangzi Explorer and there was no smoking on the ship in general, but they did have a "smoking room". The bars and public places were clear of smoke. Nice!

 

My point is that if China is doing this, why in the world is Seabourn lagging so far behind. If they don't change the policy, this is starting to be really strange.

[Host Jazzbeau]

My point is that if China is doing this, why in the world is Seabourn lagging so far behind. If they don't change the policy, this is starting to be really strange.

 

Especially with today's AP story Kicking the habit: Adult smoking rate in US is falling fast

The rate of smoking among adults in the U.S. fell to 15 percent last year thanks to the biggest one-year decline in more than 20 years, according to a new government report.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_MED_SMOKING_ADULTS?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

 

Seabourn would be in the top group for our next cruise, EXCEPT for their terrible smoking policy.

Edited May 24, 2016 by Host Jazzbeau

[JVNYC]

Does Seabourn monitor these threads? I hope so! I know Regent, Oceania and Azamara do monitor and respond frequently to issues. Why hasn't Seabourn done the same?

 

I'm very interested in trying Seabourn but can't imagine spending $25K to $30K to be around smoke. Hoping things will change.

[lincslady]

Just a thought - recently often more than 50% of passengers have been from countries other than the US, perhaps in particular mainland Europe, Asia and South America, where smoking is far more prevalent. We have noticed in particular people from Germany, Belgium and the Netherlands seem to be much more likely to be smokers than us (UK) or North America or Australia and New Zealand.

 

The situation has improved on Seabourn in recent years, believe it or not, but still has a long way to go. We must just keep on complaining - or telling them that they are not going to get our business.