PRINCESS SHIPS & CORONA VIRUS

17 hours ago, kent9xxx1 said:

 

I don't mean letting them run back home, but isn't it better to quarantine them on land instead of confined space where the chance of them getting infected is much higher.  This is nuts, 61 people getting infected.  Just you watch, in a few more days, probably a lot more people will be infected, just by sitting in their cabin.  

Where exactly are you going to find the necessary space on land to quarantine every person on the ship? You do realize the space on land in Japan would probably be a very small 2 tatami room? Possibly without windows and any entertainment. Much smaller than an inside cabin on a ship. Even smaller than a crew cabin,

5 minutes ago, DivotMaker said:

 

And my daughter is stationed there and I just texted her and she said she's heard nothing as well.

Thank you.

Sounds like FakeBook is at it again.

4 minutes ago, Outerdog said:

 

Thank you.

 

Sounds like FakeBook is at it again.

Any flight from China is being rerouted to Travis or Miramar (sp) in southern CA

Another flight carrying coronavirus has departed Travis Air Force Base.

Kalitta Air flight 377 came directly from Wuhan, China. The plane touched down at the military base just after 3 a.m. to refuel.

Passengers were screened for the virus, before flying to Texas and then to their final destination in Nebraska.

Officials said anyone who showed symptoms will be kept at Travis and join the 178 other evacuees who came earlier this week and are now in quarantine.

https://abc30.com/health/flight-with-coronavirus-evacuees-lands-at-travis-air-force-base/5910513/

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/05/us/coronavirus-flights-wuhan.html

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=planes+from+china+landing+at+travis

2 hours ago, elliair said:

I'm looking for the news story and it may have been cleaned from the internet.  The media is trying to down play the potential for this to explode and they're trying to keep the public from panic.  Here's one story of a passenger trying to leave out of March AFB down in S. CA.  I know there was another one out of Travis because it's in an area that I am well acquainted with.

 

https://abc7.com/5892089/

 

 

 

So in other words there is no evidence of this happening, the black helicopters swooped in and made any mention of it magically disappear.

22 minutes ago, AlanF65 said:

Any flight from China is being rerouted to Travis or Miramar (sp) in southern CA

Another flight carrying coronavirus has departed Travis Air Force Base.

Kalitta Air flight 377 came directly from Wuhan, China. The plane touched down at the military base just after 3 a.m. to refuel.

 

Passengers were screened for the virus, before flying to Texas and then to their final destination in Nebraska.

Officials said anyone who showed symptoms will be kept at Travis and join the 178 other evacuees who came earlier this week and are now in quarantine.

https://abc30.com/health/flight-with-coronavirus-evacuees-lands-at-travis-air-force-base/5910513/

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/05/us/coronavirus-flights-wuhan.html

 

 

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=planes+from+china+landing+at+travis

Why are you quoting me with this?

2 hours ago, TNTLAMB said:

Assuming the pax maintain there distance from each other and "follow the rules" They should be fine by the 11the or so. There is a quarantine within the quarantine. If it was just the ship everyone could go anywhere and the buffet would be packed lol.

 

the 18th would be 14 days (incubation time) since they entered quarantine.  Symptoms could develop from people infected prior to quarantine right up to that time frame.

1 minute ago, npcl said:

the 18th would be 14 days (incubation time) since they entered quarantine.  Symptoms could develop from people infected prior to quarantine right up to that time frame.

 You are correct its the 18 the 11 was a typo and I did a poor job of proofreading

3 hours ago, kent9xxx1 said:

 

What makes you think that I think quarantine is only to protect the people on the ship? 

Because you keep saying this:

3 hours ago, kent9xxx1 said:

...tell me what do you prefer?  Land quarantine or ship quarantine?  

It's not about what the passengers would prefer. It's about what Japan believes is best for Japan. And they think that is keeping the passengers quarantined on the ship.

2 hours ago, bluesea321 said:

Did you bother to read the article before replying? The Executive Director of the World Health Organization said:

"People who are quarantined aboard the Diamond Princess in Japan have been wondering how long their isolation would last. On Friday, a health official gave an answer they might not like: the quarantine will be extended every time a new case of the Wuhan coronavirus is confirmed on the ship.

The coronavirus quarantine that has kept some 3,700 people aboard the cruise ship is currently set to expire on Feb. 19 – but that date would be reset if any new samples from people on the ship test positive for the virus, Dr. Michael Ryan, executive director of WHO's Health Emergencies Program, said Friday."

I read it but disagree with it.  That is why I said nope. That would not follow normal protocol for isolation.  Which would imply that he thinks passengers are still intermingling when he made that statement.  Unless something happens that makes officials think that isolation was broken.  As the Japanese minister of health said the quarantine will end on the 19th and there are no expectations of it being extended.  So who do want to believe the Executive Director of WHO who may have answered it in a different context then is captured by the person that wrote the article, or the Japanese Minister of Health who has final decision authority. A single statement taken out of context can be very misleading.  I would believe the article if we can see the full context of his statement.

As long as isolation is not broken it will end on the 19th, except for those that are in the same cabin as someone that develops symptoms between now and then.

After 48 hours before it ends you will see the Japanese start a screening protocol of all passengers to make sure that none have developed symptoms prior to departure.  Probably a final screen taken before being escorted out of quarantine.

Now the Executive Director of WHO is correct IF he was talking about individual cabins as I mentioned above where one develops symptoms, but not the majority of the passengers.

1 hour ago, TNTLAMB said:

Thats correct BUT if everyone maintains their "cabin quarantine" that time would likley not have to be extended as there would be no new cases which is what NPCL was trying to explain. There will be an end very close to the 19th. Its really very simple statistics.

You probably will have new symptoms and cases develop.  If you look at timing and incubation.  You have a set that was infected by the original passenger that boarded on Jan 20 to 25. So any that he infected should develop symptoms any time up until Feb 10 (14 days after he left on the 25).  As we know he did infect others because we have 61 examples. But those people could have infected others up until isolation commenced so one could expect new cases right up until just before isolation end.

If so then their cabin mates would have their quarantine time reset up until 14 days after last contact with that person.  But the rest that have been isolated should not be reset.

I was reading in a UK newspaper an interview with the honeymoon couple where the man has tested positive for the virus. He was tested by mistake according to this interview and so was surprised to find he was positive for the virus as he was showing no symptoms. I am sure if he has the virus his wife also has a great chance of having it but I cannot see how this would reset the quarantine. 

My thoughts were hoping he has had a false positive, which I have also read is possible otherwise I think we may see more coming down with the virus as he had no reason to believe he was at risk.

8 minutes ago, npcl said:

...the Japanese Minister of Health who has final decision authority.

 

As long as isolation is not broken it will end on the 19th, except for those that are in the same cabin as someone that develops symptoms between now and then.

 

 

Exactly and it is importanat to note the Japanese Health minister is supervising the "whole show" including the deck visits of inside cabin pax. Not likely the isolation will be broken as even food is under their control...

4 hours ago, kent9xxx1 said:

Japan decided to quarantine them, no one is infected.  The guy who eventually got infected left the ship 5 days prior.  

I disagree with your statement. The man known to be infected left the ship five days earlier - coronavirus has a 14 day incubation period. Obviously at least 61 people were already infected when Japan decided to quarantine the ship. Testing by the authorities has identified those 61, but there may be more. It is fairly certain that all these infections were from the man who left five days earlier in Hong Kong.

7 minutes ago, npcl said:

You probably will have new symptoms and cases develop.  If you look at timing and incubation.  You have a set that was infected by the original passenger that boarded on Jan 20 to 25. So any that he infected should develop symptoms any time up until Feb 10 (14 days after he left on the 25).  As we know he did infect others because we have 61 examples. But those people could have infected others up until isolation commenced so one could expect new cases right up until just before isolation end.

 

If so then their cabin mates would have their quarantine time reset up until 14 days after last contact with that person.  But the rest that have been isolated should not be reset.

 That's correct. I was referring to the ship quarantine and failed to make that clear.

4 hours ago, kent9xxx1 said:

 

You speak with absolute certainty.  How do you know for sure the quarantine didn't infect any of the 61 people?  

We have no reason to disbelieve the Japanese authorities who stated that all 61 positive results to Coronavirus were from tests taken when the Diamond Princess arrived in Yokohama. These people did not become infected while under quarantine.

I would hate to be in an interior room. I think I'd go crazy.

50 minutes ago, Outerdog said:

 

Why are you quoting me with this?

Because you said you hadn't heard of it.

I believe the reroute was for

a) planes that were headed to the Us when the ban was placed and

b) planes that were bringing Americans back from China.

Basically, SFO, SMF and LAX are closed to planes from China, so they landed at Travis if they were headed to SFO or Miramr if headed to LAX.

Probably not many flights coming now unless its  a plane is bringing Americans home.

2 hours ago, TNTLAMB said:

IMO It wouldn't be a "restart" if the quarantine needed be extended. Her removal might be enough of she has had no other contact with PAX. From what is known it would -2 days from her husband being removed. However if she hasn't developed symptoms by now, she's not likely to. Granted its been a few years since I worked in that area and my expertise was bacterial not viral transmission. The two are very similar but different.

Depend upon what the Japanese decide when doing final release testing and screening.  They may decide to test them and release if results are negative, even if within the 14 day period because as you say it will be close.

All depends upon their current knowledge of the virus at that time.

Sounds kind of like fishing test and release instead of catch and release.

28 minutes ago, Te Aroha said:

I was reading in a UK newspaper an interview with the honeymoon couple where the man has tested positive for the virus. He was tested by mistake according to this interview and so was surprised to find he was positive for the virus as he was showing no symptoms. I am sure if he has the virus his wife also has a great chance of having it but I cannot see how this would reset the quarantine. 

 

My thoughts were hoping he has had a false positive, which I have also read is possible otherwise I think we may see more coming down with the virus as he had no reason to believe he was at risk.

 

it would not reset for everyone, but might cause and extension for his wife.

Some protocols I have seen would include a certain number of random tests in addition to the high risk group,  

28 minutes ago, AlanF65 said:

Because you said you hadn't heard of it.

 

I believe the reroute was for

a) planes that were headed to the Us when the ban was placed and

b) planes that were bringing Americans back from China.

 

Basically, SFO, SMF and LAX are closed to planes from China, so they landed at Travis if they were headed to SFO or Miramr if headed to LAX.

Probably not many flights coming now unless its  a plane is bringing Americans home.

What I said was that there was no story or any news at all (I never heard of) about a quarantined individual at Travis AFB walking away from the quarantine, followed by law enforcement stating there was nothing they could do, as stated by @elliair in post #645 and post #590 I am fully aware of the flights to the AFBs in California (and one other elsewhere) and the flight restrictions at SFO, LAX, et al.

Please try to keep up.

1 hour ago, npcl said:

I read it but disagree with it.  That is why I said nope. That would not follow normal protocol for isolation.  Which would imply that he thinks passengers are still intermingling when he made that statement.  Unless something happens that makes officials think that isolation was broken.  As the Japanese minister of health said the quarantine will end on the 19th and there are no expectations of it being extended.  So who do want to believe the Executive Director of WHO who probably does not have the indepth detailsl, or the Japanese Minister of Health who has final decision authority.

 

As long as isolation is not broken it will end on the 19th, except for those that are in the same cabin as someone that develops symptoms between now and then.

 

After 48 hours before it ends you will see the Japanese start a screening protocol of all passengers to make sure that none have developed symptoms prior to departure.  Probably a final screen taken before being escorted out of quarantine.

 

Now the Executive Director of WHO is correct IF he was talking about individual cabins as I mentioned above where one develops symptoms, but not the majority of the passengers.

I believe the facts. You can believe as you wish. For those that may be interested in facts, not speculation, I suggest listening to the News Conference from the World Health Organization which was linked on the NPR article I initially quoted.

To save time go to the 22:30 minute mark and listed to 24:30. This section specifically deals with the Diamond Princess. The WHO, contrary to what you assumed, is in close coordination with the Japanese authorities and their teams (WHO and Japan) were actually discussing the Diamond Princess options as the News Conference was going on. 

I quote "at the moment every time there is a new case the quarantine extends 14 days. "We need to find a way to break that vicious cycle. There is a lot to work out.... It is quite scary, very very scary to be in that situation".

So as it turns out the Executive Director of the WHO has a lot more in-depth details than you assumed.

3 minutes ago, bluesea321 said:

I believe the facts. You can believe as you wish. For those that may be interested I suggest listening to this News Conference from the World Health Organization which was linked on the NPR article I initially quoted.

 

To save time go to the 22:30 minute mark and listed to 24:30. This section specifically deals with the Diamond Princess. The WHO, contrary to what you assumed, is in close coordination with the Japanese authorities and their teams (WHO and Japan) were actually discussing the Diamond Princess options as the News Conference was going on. 

 

I quote "at the moment every time there is a new case the quarantine extends 14 days. "We need to find a way to break that vicious cycle. There is a lot to work out.... It is quite scary, very very scary to be in that situation".

 

So as it turns out the Executive Director of the WHO has a lot more in depth details than you assumed.

 

 

This was also my understanding that it will reset. Here is the interview with David Abel where he as a passenger believes that is what will happen.

@ Te Aroha  Thanks for the interview link, good info.

6 hours ago, fragilek said:

5 hours ago, elliair said:

If that's the case, I would self disembark myself.  I don't believe they can hold you hostage at your own expense.  Pick your poison cruiseline.  A quarantined traveler at Travis AFB walked away and the authorities said they could not hold anyone against their will.

---

 That outcome may depend on where you are traveling- there are reports of people being shot in China for trying this

This reminds me of Mark Twain's tale in his book Innocents Abroad. He was a celebrity guest on the first cruise from the US, in 1867(!), and he wrote up his cruise diary as this book. While his book was humorous (hilarious, really, especially for those who cruise), their ship was quarantined in Greece (Athens/Piraeus; for a risk of cholera, if I recall). He wrote how they thought they could see the Acropolis in the distance -- and how even after they learned it would be "very severe" punishment if they went ashore, Twain and his friends "stole softly ashore in a small boat" at night and snuck their way to see the Acropolis, where they tried to break in at 1am. They had a number of other run-ins with quarantines in other ports in the Med. as well. That's a very small part of the book, but it fired up my memory when I read the two posts above about breaking quarantine. Having experienced a brief quarantine on a cruise (for just a day, the result of a painful encounter with a camel in Egypt; long story), I can't imagine how tough it is -- and will get -- for those on Diamond; but I can relate to how Twain and his fellow passengers felt, unable to go ashore and pining to visit the Acropolis they (thought they) could see from the ship.

The bit about quarantine was a small part of the book, but the whole book really reminds me of cruising today and visiting the Med. (Well, the quarantine part hadn't -- until now.) Amazing considering it was over 150 years ago, and so funny. It was his best-selling book during his life, and definitely recommended for folks who cruise. (If you read it, be sure to get the one with the couple hundred illustrations, they're great too.)

I didn't think ship-wide quarantines would really be something I'd experience in my life, but reading the threads here (and David Abel's excellent videos) really feels like I'm living in a science fiction tale.

Been lurking on here in order to be prepared for the worst case scenario for my upcoming Feb 25 trip on the Crown. Feel like it's unlikely, but I like to hedge my bets... 

May have even somewhat jokingly asked my boss today if I'd need to use vacation days, or if quarantine qualified as sick leave when he asked if I was looking forward to my "corona cruise". 

Just logged into the Princess website to check and see if there had been any itinerary changes for my itinerary due to the ongoing generator issues on the Crown, and decided to click on the "Health Advisories" section at the top of the page. They just updated it about 15 mins ago with a list of what they are offering the passengers on the quarantined ship.

https://www.princess.com/news/notices_and_advisories/notices/diamond-princess-guest-experience.html