ak1004

I don't disagree either. If the ship is the destination and money is not an issue, it's a completely different story. For this category, I can completely understand why people who sailed on Crystal dozens of times and feel it's their home don't really care about the pricing. But I think it's a very small percentage. But on most luxury ships the number of those (relatively) inexpensive cabins is small anyway. For example, SS has only about 10 Vista cabins. And they always keep those cabins pricing very competitive while making most of the revenue from the more expensive cabins.

The truth is that except for a very small number of loyalists that every cruise line has, most people that I know just want to see the world in the most convenient and economical way. They base their decision on two main factors: itinerary and pricing, and they will book the cheapest possible cabin, simply because they use the cabin for sleep and shower only. When I showed the NC itineraries and pricing to few of our friends side by side with SS and SB itineraries, their reaction was very similar to mine. But as you said, time will tell. I really with Crystal the best of luck and want them to succeed.

One thing I can recommend to everyone who is new to O: take the reviews with a grain of salt. Those latest reviews are so different from our experience (and we sailed 4 times already after the restart, 2 of them on O). Personally I didn't see much difference.

I got an email from someone at Crystal thanking me for visiting their website and asking how he can help. I replied with some feedback about itineraries and pricing. Never heard back. speaking of culture..

I don't know why OV increased more than other categories, and honestly, I don't really care. We don't come to a cruise to spend time in our cabin, so the cabin size is very low on our priorities list. When we started looking at luxury lines in 2019, we were surprised to see that Crystal prices were significantly lower than other luxury lines. I asked for a reason on Crystal forum, and the explanation was that comparable size cabins have prices comparable to other luxury lines, but there are smaller cabins that are priced much lower.. because they are smaller and cannot compete with 300sqft suites on other luxury lines. This was our main reason to try Crystal. Unfortunately, this is not the case anymore after the massive price increase. Just for comparison, our first Oceania cruise was in 2018, 10 nights Rome to Barcelona. We paid $4,399 CAD for an inside cabin. Today comparable sailings are priced $3,500-4,000 CAD.

Going back to the original subject of the topic, I looked at some 8-14 nights European sailings. All prices are in CAD (because this is what I see on SS and SB websites) for the entry level cabins. Crystal: https://www.crystalcruises.com/search?itineraries[page]=2&itineraries[refinementList][destination][0]=Europe %26 Mediterranean&itineraries[refinementList][destination][1]=Baltic %26 Northern Europe&itineraries[refinementList][duration][0]=8to14&itineraries[sortBy]=sort_price_asc Price range: $675-810 CAD per night, with average being around $700 CAD Seabourn: https://www.seabourn.com/en_US/find-a-cruise.html#{!tag=destinationTag}destinationIds=EM,EN&{!tag=embarkTag}embarkPortCode=&{!tag=departTag}departDate=&{!tag=durationTag}duration=8-14&{!tag=shipsTag}shipId=&{!tag=cruisetypeTag}cruiseType=&{!tag=portsTag}portsOfCall=&sort=price_CAD_anonymous asc,departDate asc&group.sort=price_CAD_anonymous asc,departDate asc&start=0&soldOut=false Price range: $530-700 CAD per night, with average being around $600 CAD Silversea: https://www.silversea.com/find-a-cruise.html?refinementList[destinationName][0]=Mediterranean&refinementList[destinationName][1]=Northern Europe %26 The British Isles&refinementList[dayGroup][0]=9-12&sortBy=prod_cruises_en__price-from-cad-asc This one is more complicated to compare because it has 2 levels of pricing, but there are few P2P that are priced around $650 per night, and this price includes excursions. So overall, SS and SB prices are 15-20% cheaper for entry level cabins, and entry level is 295-305sqft on SS and SB and 215sqft on Crystal. If you take the more comparable AQUAMARINE suite on Crystal, the gap becomes 30-35% (around $1,000 CAD on Crystal vs. $650-700 on SB)

I would be very interested to hear your thoughts.. ak100467 at gmail dot com

Yes, as mentioned in the post. They defined it "Taxes, Fees And Port Charges", and I added them to the basic price.

Here are the numbers from our bookings. All prices are for the lowest category (OV). 9 nights Los Angeles to Vancouver $3,099 USD or $345 per night. Comparable cruise: https://www.crystalcruises.com/cruises/none-cse-008-240624 - 8 nights $4,400 or $550 per night (59% increase) 11 nights London to Lisbon $3,549 or $322 per night Comparable cruise: https://www.crystalcruises.com/cruises/none-cse-010-230812 - 10 nights $5,600 or $560 per night (74% increase) 17 nights from Athens to Abu Dhabi $4,550 or $268 per night Comparable cruise: https://www.crystalcruises.com/cruises/none-csy-017-241206 - 17 nights $8,300 or $488 per night (82% increase). All prices include taxes and are before Crystal Society discounts. Old Crystal sailings were booked in 2019-2020 (before Covid). The sailing seasons are comparable.

Discounted compared to what? The brochure fares? I have never seen O discounting fares, definitely not by 40%. Many TAs provides perks such as rebates, OBC, PPG, but the prices are the same as far as I know.

Yes, this what we will probably do. Looking for an hotel now. Want something good, but not super expensive, and close to the center. Narrowed the search to Boutique Helmhaus, Schweizerhof and Alden suite, based on the reviews on TripAdvisor and Expedia. Thoughts?

I love French cooks, English policemen, German mechanics, Swiss bankers and Russian singers. I hate English food, German policemen, French mechanics, Russian politicians and Italian bankers. I guess it makes me a racist..

And spend the whole time in Lucerne? Skip Zurich completely?

Hello everyone. I'm reviving this topic to seek for additional feedback from members. We are now booked on this 10 nights Uniworld cruise on Sep.2-12 - https://www.uniworld.com/ca/river-cruise/central-europe/rhine/remarkable-rhine-and-historic-holland/2023-amsterdam-to-basel The cruise starts in Basel with overnight. We arrive in Zurich on Aug.31 for 2 nights. Should we book an hotel in Zurich, spend the first evening in Zurich, then on Sep.1 take a train to Lucerne, spend the whole day in Lucerne, then on Sep.2 take a train to Basel for embarkation? Or book an hotel for 2 nights in Lucerne? Ideally we would like to get a general impression of both Zurich and Lucerne (and I realize it's not enough time but still). We are travelling with carry on only, so luggage is not an issue.

La Dame was one of the best meals we had on any cruise. Was well worth the $120. The food, the service, the presentation, the atmosphere. P.S. caviar you can get anywhere anytime on SS. Unlimited. La Dame is not about caviar. And we don't drink either. But the food is just delicious and the whole dinner is very special.

Not cash tickets with Air Canada - those have relatively significant cancellation fees. Not sure about other airlines.

Hank, This is a very interesting question that probably deserves a separate topic. According to the consensus definition, O is not a luxury line. SS, SB and Regent are (also the new Crystal) while Oceania, Azamara and Viking are "premium" or "premium plus" (or maybe luxury light). But what makes a line luxury? Is it the cabin size? Crystal has smaller cabins that O newer ships, but it's still considered luxury. Is is how many inclusions it has? SS is more inclusive than SB, is it more luxury? Azamara included selected alcoholic drinks, Oceania doesn't, does it make Azamara more luxury? Viking has better cabins and includes excursions, does it make it more luxury than Oceania? I agree that Oceania O ships are in a different category than R ships when it comes to cabins, but some might argue that R ships are half size and fit better the "luxury" definition. Crystal has a lot of loyal following that will prefer Crystal over SS or SB despite the smaller cabins. So we need to consider the whole package. Out of premium/luxury group, we sailed on Oceania, Azamara, Crystal and Silversea. Personally I consider them comparable in terms of the overall experience. Sure some have larger cabins, some have slightly better food etc. But they all have much higher crew/passenger ratios and much better service and food than the mainstream lines like Celebrity/Princess. They also treat all passengers equal, unlike Celebrity that has ship within ship for suite guests. So to me, there is "Group 1" (SS, SB, Regent, Crystal, Oceania, Azamara, Viking) and Group 2 (Celebrity, Princess, HAL etc). Lines in Group 1 have much more similarities than differences in terms of the overall cruise experience. I would gladly sail on any line from group 1, giving the right itinerary and price. In fact, I know some people who gave up the all inclusiveness of SS to have a better food on O. P.S. I don't think that "O" plays some nickel and dime games - they just give their guests an option to pay for what's important to them and not to pay for what's not. For people who don't drink, Oceania newer ships represent the best value in the industry. btw, no line is truly all inclusive. SS charge for two of the specialty restaurants. SB charge for excursions. All lines charge for spa treatments. It's just some lines are more inclusive than others. We don't drink alcohol, but like mineral waters, soft drinks and specialty coffees, and also like to eat in specialty restaurants, so O includes exactly what's important to us and doesn't include what's not important. Gratuities are usually covered by the TA, and they are free after 10 cruises anyway (less if you do longer cruises - in fact, one world cruise and your gratuities are free for the rest of your life)

We returned from our first SS cruise in December and found it excellent, with few very minor issues. A couple weeks later I read two 2 star reviews about the same cruise, that defined it as awful and cruise from hell. I learned to take all reviews with a grain of salt..

Good point.. I agree.. However, in this case, SS air is fully refundable up to 90 days before sailing, while buying cash tickets, you have to pay significantly more to have a refundable ticket. The price shown when you book with an airline is typically the cheapest and with significant cancellation fee.

I agree about pricing. I see currently few European itineraries priced close to $400/night. This is a bargain. Oceania price range is much more tight. For people who don't drink, Oceania is usually a better value.

In my opinion, the PH prices on R ships are not a good value in general. They are 260 sqft (excluding balcony) which is still less than standard cabins on SB or SS, and they often cost more than SS or SS with less inclusions. And yes, veranda cabins on R ships are a bit small. This is why we prefer the O ships. I think veranda cabins on O ships represent the best value in the industry and they are a very good size (240 sqft excluding balcony).

Which is actually a very good example. If you take Mercedes, Audi and BMW, which one is better? The answer is it depends. Each one of them has its pluses and minuses, and each has its loyal customer base. But the consensus it that they are in the same category. They appeal to different audiences, but they still charge very similar prices. What if Audi comes tomorrow and start charging 20% more than Mercedes and BMW? Wouldn't it be strange? And if someone asks them why, their answer will be "because we invested a billion dollar in a new facility and we want to get our money back". Well, good luck with that. Oceania, Viking and Azamara have similar prices (with some exceptions) because they are in the same category. Same for SS, SB and Regent. But Crystal wants to charge 20% more. Well, good luck with that. Even in the luxury category, many customers are still price sensitive.

I don't disagree with you. On the contrary. In fact, for me the cabin size is very low in my list of priorities. We spend very little time in our cabin, and we always book the lowest OV cabin. If we get an upgrade - good. If not - not a big deal. We are perfectly fine in a 215 sqft OV cabin. That said, it is still nicer to get a 305 sqft cabin, with walking closet etc. all other factors equal. Of all other factors are never equal, but for us two main factors in our decision are itinerary and price. Yes, the promenade deck on Crystal was nice, but SS has something similar. Maybe not as long, but it's not really critical. The main difference between us is that you see the ship as a destination. I don't. I see it as means to see the world. I still want a good ship (won't go back to large ships) and I will select between ships with comparable food and service. Food and service are comparable on all luxury lines, with few small nuances. Crystal was significantly better when it comes to entertainment and activities, no argument here. But if I'm in ports most of the day, this becomes much less of a factor. So when we recently looked at Med cruise for 2024, and Crystal itineraries just came out, with prices starting at $6,900 CAD for a 10 night cruise - to me, this is really high. We booked a similar cruise with SS for $6,700 CAD D2D - this price included flights, transfers and excursions, larger cabin, unlimited caviar. And SS has less sea days and longer stays at ports. I hope I clarified my point of view. And no, I'm not claiming I'm right. This is what works for me, if someone considers a ship a destination and believes that the old Crystal was much better destination AND the new Crystal will come close to the old Crystal, will probably book with Crystal, even at those prices.

We paid for La Dame with our OBC. Was worth every dollar.

How quickly we moved from removing a jacket while dining to men in thongs and wife-beater shirts.. But yes, the whole industry is moving towards less formal dress code. Doesn't make SB, Regent or Oceania any less "sophisticated".