dolphin excursion preference

So...because I like chocolate it makes it acceptable and justifiable to abuse animals? Nice try.

 

Done.

I believe you may have misread and misunderstood my point. I suggested that some people hold the view that not purchasing fair trade products in the aforementioned categories is unethical (due to the exploitation of developing countries, and with child and/or slave labour often being involved in non-fair trade products).

Here is a link with further information on fair trade: http://www.fairtrade.org.uk/

Since you mentioned enjoying chocolate, here is a link with further information about fair trade chocolate: http://www.fairtrade.org.uk/Buying-Fairtrade/Chocolate

There are many other resources online with further information about fair trade, if one goes looking.

To answer the question from several posts back; Regarding seeing wild dolphins, there are many dolphin tours offered from various Florida ports and even water side restaurants situated near dolphin feeding areas. I just found out that our favourite dolphin watching spot in New Smyrna Beach has closed, but hopefully it will be replaced with something else. Meanwhile, google the city and "dolphin watching" and you should get some results.

My wife really wants to do a dolphin excursion and we have two islands where it's offered, Cozumel and Falmouth, just wondering if anybody knows which offers the better tour ?

We have done Dolphinaris in Cozumel and enjoyed it. Make sure you bring beach shoes.

My wife really wants to do a dolphin excursion and we have two islands where it's offered, Cozumel and Falmouth, just wondering if anybody knows which offers the better tour ?

We have done Dolphinaris in Cozumel and enjoyed it. Make sure you bring beach shoes.

We also did the dolphin excursion in Cozumel with our daughter. In my opinion, the tour offered in Cozumel is much better than Falmouth.

I believe that most educated people do believe that it is cruel to keep dolphins in captivity, and ignorant to support the practice with their dollars.

Be careful you don't hurt your arm while patting yourself on the back.

News Flash: A person's level of education has absolutely nothing to do with their opinion of captive animals.

While we're at it, let's not kid ourselves. It could be argued that the entire cruise industry is harmful to the very habitats that are, in large part, an integral part of the appeal to their customers. It would also be reasonable to argue that burning thousands of gallons of fossil fuels just to transport tourists for no other reason than pleasure cruising is also wasteful. Or to use your words, "Ignorant to support with their dollars." But that couldn't possibly be true, could it? After all, if it were true, an "educated" person such as yourself would not be participating in such an "ignorant" practice.

Pot, allow me to introduce myself. My friends call me Kettle.

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

I believe that most educated people do believe that it is cruel to keep dolphins in captivity, and ignorant to support the practice with their dollars.

I had to respond after seeing this. If you are educated in higher level biology you would understand the difference between captivity and abuse. Evolutionary biology shows us that dogs, cats and other pets have gotten another species to take care of them. That is an amazing feat. Would you say my dog, who is pampered, is better off in the wild? That is absurd.

Abuse is treating the animal to cause pain. This can happen in captivity sure. Maybe you experienced this. Don't kid yourself to believe that dolphins want to be free in the ocean. That is personification and something children do. These animals are fed, get health care, and are probably loved by their trainers. Sure some places may abuse them, but abuse and captivity are two different things.

I would not be surprised to see these animals have a longer lifespan than wild dolphins. You do not know the circumstance of all these animals. You can project and say they were taken away from their mother, but you are just creating a fiction.

If you think being in the wild is so great, why are you not living in a cave?

My wife really wants to do a dolphin excursion and we have two islands where it's offered, Cozumel and Falmouth, just wondering if anybody knows which offers the better tour ?

Hello,

We are doing the dolphins at Dolphin Discovery in Cozumel... I went on there web site and scheduled, through chat with them I asked a lot of questions and they were having a 50% off sale. So I scheduled it.

I to like your wife have this on my bucket list.

After we do it I will let you know how it was, we chose this also, because we will get to go into Chaknubba???

park and spend as long as we want to

There is a lot of misinformation going on in this thread. Just because one knows that keeping dolphins captive is immoral doesn't mean that they are obligated to believe that keeping any animal captive is immoral. My 1 bedroom apartment is a perfectly suitable environment for a cat (an animal that was domesticated for thousands of years.) Is a small tank a suitable environment for a completely wild animal that naturally travels hundreds of miles? The false equivalence and mental gymnastics are mind-boggling.

I don't have statistics on bottlenose dolphins at my fingertips, but I happen to know offhand that orcas—the largest species of dolphin—live significantly shorter lives in captivity, to the tune of 40 years cut off their lifespan. And those are just the orcas kept at SeaWorld, ostensibly the most equipped facility in the US for their care. Do you think these dolphins that are used for profit in small, non-US facilities with much less funding are even on equal footing as the ones at SeaWorld? I highly doubt it.

Honestly, stop kidding yourselves and just admit that you go on dolphin excursions because you want to, and the well-being of the animals does not factor into your decision very much at all. You don't care about dolphins, you just want to get people off your back and do a fun excursion without care for the repercussions.

"Honestly, stop kidding yourselves and just admit that you go on cruises because you want to, and the well-being of the crew does not factor into your decision very much at all. You don't care about other humans, you just want to get people off your back and do a fun vacation without care for the repercussions."

"Honestly, stop kidding yourselves and just admit that you go on cruises because you want to, and the environment does not factor into your decision very much at all. You don't care about the ocean and burning fossil fuels, you just want to get people off your back and do a fun vacation without care for the repercussions."

"Honestly, stop kidding yourselves and just admit that you eat non-fair trade chocolate because you want to, and the well-being of the cocoa farmers does not factor into your decision very much at all. You don't care about other humans, you just want to get people off your back and enjoy a nice snack without care for the repercussions."

It's funny how people can rationalize whatever they want to do :rolleyes: As an earlier poster suggested, we're all kettles. Let's not make harsh moral judgments of each other (especially previous attempts to disparage people's intelligence or education), because I'm sure somebody will find fault with something you do.

Moopetguy, that argument is so stupid though? You're basically saying "I'm going to go do this clearly immoral thing, and no one is allowed to criticize me unless they are a literally perfect super-being who has never done anything wrong."

Yes, sometimes I use paper plates and it's not good for the environment. That doesn't mean I am not allowed to say "Hey don't do that!" if I see someone kicking a puppy.

Moopetguy, that argument is so stupid though? You're basically saying "I'm going to go do this clearly immoral thing, and no one is allowed to criticize me unless they are a literally perfect super-being who has never done anything wrong."

 

Yes, sometimes I use paper plates and it's not good for the environment. That doesn't mean I am not allowed to say "Hey don't do that!" if I see someone kicking a puppy.

I would have to disagree with you. I can certainly see the validity of Moopetguy's argument.

In reading your paper plates-kicking puppy analogy, I couldn't help but think that you justify using paper plates because in your mind it's "less bad" than kicking puppies. While I can't argue with you there, I have to wonder what then, do you have to say about the people that go around kicking puppies and justify it by saying that it's not as bad as breeding dogs for the sole purpose of dogfighting? After all, kicking puppies could be considered "less bad" than putting two dogs in a cage and watching them fight to the death for pure entertainment.

By your rationale, what you do is ok because somewhere in the world there is someone doing something "more bad" than you are. That's silly.

For the record, I have, and will spend money on dolphin excursions, eating chocolate, pleasure cruising, and many other things that someone, somewhere would consider "more bad" than what they do. Those that criticize should remember that they most certainly are participating in practices of their own that could be considered ignorant. No one, anywhere, is perfect.

By the way. Have you ever tried pan-seared manatee? It's delicious! It tastes just like bald eagle. [emoji1] (See what I did there? Swimming with dolphins is "less bad" than eating manatee. So I should still get into heaven......right?)

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

Moopetguy, that argument is so stupid though? You're basically saying "I'm going to go do this clearly immoral thing, and no one is allowed to criticize me unless they are a literally perfect super-being who has never done anything wrong."

 

Yes, sometimes I use paper plates and it's not good for the environment. That doesn't mean I am not allowed to say "Hey don't do that!" if I see someone kicking a puppy.

"Clearly immoral" in your subjective judgment. You are implying a false equivalence between "kicking a puppy" and a "swim with the dolphins" excursion. The people going on excursions are not kicking dolphins, but that is who you are calling out.

Part of 4, by your logic you can justify killing someone because there are people out there who have killed more than one person. There's always a "more bad," that doesn't justify doing something that you know is wrong.

Part of 4, by your logic you can justify killing someone because there are people out there who have killed more than one person. There's always a "more bad," that doesn't justify doing something that you know is wrong.

"something that you think is wrong". Fixed that for you.

You believe it's wrong to go on dolphin excursions. Fine, you're entitled to that opinion. But there has been some judgment and questioning of intelligence over the choice to go on dolphin excursions, and that's wrong (in my opinion) because it's hypocritical.

Someone else could argue all of us on this forum are "bad people" who are doing "something that we know is wrong" because we are all cruisers. We are endorsing, with our dollars, the burning of fossil fuels, the exploitation of crew members from poorer countries, food waste, and so on.

There isn't universal agreement over animals in captivity being morally wrong, whereas there probably is over something like murder. :rolleyes: They aren't the same thing.

Part of 4, by your logic you can justify killing someone because there are people out there who have killed more than one person. There's always a "more bad," that doesn't justify doing something that you know is wrong.

You could not be more wrong. I would encourage you to go back and re-read my posts. I was agreeing with Moopetguy in that those that are quick to criticize and wag their fingers at (and even insult the intelligence of) those paying for dolphin excursions are most certainly taking part in some, ahem, "questionable" practices in their lives as well.

In fact, it was you, Strophic, that was making the argument that paper plates were ok to use because somewhere, someone in the world is kicking a puppy. I made an attempt to communicate that to you that I disagreed with your logic. If I failed in doing that then I apologize. Now by all means feel free to use as many paper plates as you wish. When eating something very saucy please feel free to double up as well. But I personally would not go around telling people that your justified in using paper plates because it's less bad than many other things you could be doing. Basically what it boils down to, for me anyway, is you do you the best you can.......and I'll do me the best that I can.

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

"something that you think is wrong". Fixed that for you.

 

You believe it's wrong to go on dolphin excursions. Fine, you're entitled to that opinion. But there has been some judgment and questioning of intelligence over the choice to go on dolphin excursions, and that's wrong (in my opinion) because it's hypocritical.

 

Someone else could argue all of us on this forum are "bad people" who are doing "something that we know is wrong" because we are all cruisers. We are endorsing, with our dollars, the burning of fossil fuels, the exploitation of crew members from poorer countries, food waste, and so on.

 

There isn't universal agreement over animals in captivity being morally wrong, whereas there probably is over something like murder. :rolleyes: They aren't the same thing.

Very well written. I agree with you 100%.

In the end, each person has to do what he/she believes is right. I would, however, encourage people to do some research on the dolphin facilities before selecting or spending your money at one. I did two different dolphin excursions (one encounter and one swim) before I did the research. Knowing what I do now, I would not choose to do them again.

We also did the "Swin with the Dolphin" in Cozumel last year. We were with our daughter. All of us truly enjoyed the experience.

 

They limit the number of people on each tour. The tours often are sold out. We had to waite until our next visit to Cozumel to take the tour because all of the tours on our prior visit were full.

 

Lost of people do not share your view that dolphins in a large pool is cruel.

Many people are not yet aware of how dolphins arrive at the swim with dolphin attractions or how they are 'trained' to perform for you/swim with you. If everyone wanting to swim with a dolphin or participate would take a few minutes to visit this link and learn a bit more our mammal friends would appreciate it.

https://www.dolphinproject.com/campaigns/captivity-industry/swimming-with-dolphins/

Thank you

Guys I think we got off topic here, getting back to it though, isn't one of the best places in the caribbean to do the dolphin swim in Curacao also from the treatment of the animals?

https://dolphin-academy.com/

Swimming with dolphins is inhumane and cruel no matter how happy you think these dolphins are. It's not a matter of opinion but a fact. Anyone who has seen the document Blackfish and The Cove can realize this. I have attached write up about the cruelty of dolphin captivity. After reading, I hope people will reconsider. Many people don't know, so I don't blame them but word is getting out. Thank you.

dont_swim_with_dolphins_Av1.pdf

I love how someone asks a question about shore excursions and gets attacked by fanatic activists (yes, that really is what you all sound like).

To the OP, I did the Royal Swim in Cozumel a couple of weeks ago. I haven't done the one in Falmouth, but this wasn't my first dolphin swim. This one was great because there was ample opportunity to interact with the dolphin, there was a manatee interaction, and a sea lion show. Additionally, it's part of a park (state or national...I can't remember at this point). Once you finish with your excursion, they offer rides back to the ship every hour, but you are free to stay and explore the park as well. They had a regular swimming pool (with a swim up bar), snorkeling on the beach, and replicas of Mayan ruins to go explore. Most other dolphin swims have the dolphin encounter and run you right back to the ship.

I believe that most educated people do believe that it is cruel to keep dolphins in captivity, and ignorant to support the practice with their dollars.

Holy Cow. If you state your opinion that is perfect. If you try to state others, than be clear you are doing so. Your "Most educated people" in and of itself is not accurate unless you include empirical data. I just looked and cannot locate details to back up you Opinion. Please do so. Too many times now a days we all, including me, are factual when we are really just making up info to fit one narrative or another.

As for the dolphins , we had a great time. We learned they are extremely smart. Gentle and to us kind to the children. That info goes a long way in making me understand they as a group need protecting.

My opinion here, just my opinion. Peace n Love

Holy Cow. If you state your opinion that is perfect. If you try to state others, than be clear you are doing so. Your "Most educated people" in and of itself is not accurate unless you include empirical data. I just looked and cannot locate details to back up you Opinion. Please do so. Too many times now a days we all, including me, are factual when we are really just making up info to fit one narrative or another.

 

As for the dolphins , we had a great time. We learned they are extremely smart. Gentle and to us kind to the children. That info goes a long way in making me understand they as a group need protecting.

My opinion here, just my opinion. Peace n Love

https://blog.nationalgeographic.org/2014/04/08/debunking-captivity-3-reasons-not-to-keep-dolphins-in-a-tank/

Holy Cow. If you state your opinion that is perfect. If you try to state others, than be clear you are doing so. Your "Most educated people" in and of itself is not accurate unless you include empirical data. I just looked and cannot locate details to back up you Opinion. Please do so. Too many times now a days we all, including me, are factual when we are really just making up info to fit one narrative or another.

Totally unrelated to whether or not people should do dolphin excursions or whether I agree with the quote: the quote you're referring to started with the words "I believe." Therefore, the poster was clear that he/she was sharing his or her beliefs and not stating them for others.

Those who keep quoting "exploitation of the staff" seem to be forgetting that the staff members are HUMANS who made a CHOICE to apply for, accept and stay in a job. The pay and hours are more appealing to them than the options they have at home.

I love how someone asks a question about shore excursions and gets attacked by fanatic activists (yes, that really is what you all sound like).

 

To the OP, I did the Royal Swim in Cozumel a couple of weeks ago. I haven't done the one in Falmouth, but this wasn't my first dolphin swim. This one was great because there was ample opportunity to interact with the dolphin, there was a manatee interaction, and a sea lion show. Additionally, it's part of a park (state or national...I can't remember at this point). Once you finish with your excursion, they offer rides back to the ship every hour, but you are free to stay and explore the park as well. They had a regular swimming pool (with a swim up bar), snorkeling on the beach, and replicas of Mayan ruins to go explore. Most other dolphin swims have the dolphin encounter and run you right back to the ship.

Thanks for answering the question initially presented.

Sent from my iPad using Forums