Will an expired passport do the job?

[Traveler353]

OP: Welcome to CC. And just in case you missed it, insulting people that are trying to help you is considered bad form in most civilized nations. I feel that you have already made up your mind on this and are a little miffed that posters are not giving you the answer that you wanted. What it comes down to is that at this time you do not need a valid passport to travel by cruise ship on a closed loop cruise but you will wish that you had one if you have to fly back home. Your choice, do what ever you want to.

[cruisemom42]

We're hoping to sail 12/12 from NYC->Bahamas and back. NCL tells me that I will be fine if I bring my expired passport as it is a "closed loop" itinerary. However, there is nothing on their site or the State Dept site saying this works.

 

Has anyone done this?

 

Thanks

 

Customer service reps for any of the major cruise lines are hit and miss. You stand a good chance of getting bad information if you rely on what they tell you. You really have to depend on written information. This is what I see on NCL's website regarding identification:

 

Caribbean, Bahamas, Bermuda, Alaska (SEATTLE), Mexican Riviera, Or Canada & New England Cruises

For closed-loop sailings (cruises that depart from and return to the same U.S. port), you need a valid passport, proof of citizenship and a valid government-issued photo I.D. (driver's license with a photo), or any other WHTI compliant document. Proof of Citizenship examples include: an original or state certified copy of a U.S. or Canadian birth certificate, certificate of U.S. naturalization, original certificate of U.S. citizenship, or a U.S. Consular report of your birth abroad.

 

 

Although I might take issue as to whether or not you "need" a passport for a closed-loop cruise, I also notice that nowhere is an expired passport listed as a valid type of identification.

 

You say that you do not have time to get a passport, but in the next breath say that you don't want to pay to have one expedited. Just be aware that you will in all likelihood be left standing at the pier unless your id passes muster. Get either a valid passport or have a certified birth certificate and DL available.

 

Anything else is EXTREMELY risky.

[room010]

Cost of cruise = ???

Cost of expedited passport = ???

Cost of being stranded on a dock somewhere without valid ID to get you home again = ???

 

Do the math.

[imsulin]

Cost of cruise = ???

Cost of expedited passport = ???

Cost of being stranded on a dock somewhere without valid ID to get you home again = ???

 

Do the math.

 

Good post! I guess my concern for Kappa would even being allowed to board. Hope he/she makes it!

[Langley Cruisers]

For those of you that can't or don't read, I don't have the time to get it renewed.... I was looking for anyone else who'd tried this method, but instead I found a bunch of jerks.

 

You DO have time to get it renewed, as others have explained.

 

I, too, am interested to see if you get onboard or will be turned away at the pier. Be sure to let us "jerks" know the outcome, 'kay? Seriously. Enquiring minds want to know.

[mypleasure]

I cannot offer any useful advice here so I will just be a jerk and say that if you were British you would make sure to always have a valid passport as you cannot leave or return to this fair isle without one. Birth Cert and photo ID would not cut it over here.

[startraveler]

I'll be a jerk too and say don't rely on the cruise or the State Dept's Web site. Call the State Dept and call Bahamas as well. Since you're just going to the Bahamas you may be fine, but for future reference, if you're going on a cruise to other ports in the Caribbean they may turn you down, especially if you're using the expired passport as ID to get back on board ship. Because then the question they'll ask is, "What happened to your new passport?"

[Kappa]

The "jerks" were the ones treating me as if I were a moron that:

 

A: couldn't read;

B: couldn't do the math;

C: both.

 

My original question was looking for someone with -specific- experience with using an expired passport. As yet, there have been none.

 

As for the math, it would be two passports+expediting fees = 15% of the cruise price.

 

To the person that questioned why I wouldn't have researched this before booking the cruise: I am. I haven't booked the cruise yet.

 

Instead, we've ordered a duplicate birth certificate. We'll renew the passports at another date, without the extra fees. The birth certificate will arrive fairly quickly (we hope) and will allow me to exercise the option to let the cruise price fall further before we book it.

 

Regardless of whether or not I conform to your version of civilization:

 

"Oh this is such a funny thread. "

"What about Expired don't you understand?" I'm tempted to ask."

"Maybe they could use their expired credit card to pay for the cruise."

"OK folks. Let's get this straight. You can use an expired passport ONLY if you are a smoker and chair hog who wears jeans to the dining room on formal night!"

 

would all be considered quite snide where I come from.

 

Thank you to all others. I will actually try the expired passport and see how it works out and report back.

[imsulin]

Actually, I advised you to get a "certified" copy of your birth certificate. Not a "duplicate" copy. (Not even sure what that is....!)

 

Some of us are actually trying to help you, so it would be good if you were up-front with us.

[Kappa]

Actually, I advised you to get a "certified" copy of your birth certificate. Not a "duplicate" copy. (Not even sure what that is....!)

 

Some of us are actually trying to help you, so it would be good if you were up-front with us.

 

Yes, sorry, I realized after I'd already hit "submit" that that was antithetical to what you'd said, but I do mean an official one with a raised seal.

 

You were one of the helpful ones obviously.

[imsulin]

Yes, sorry, I realized after I'd already hit "submit" that that was antithetical to what you'd said, but I do mean an official one with a raised seal.

 

You were one of the helpful ones obviously.

 

I think you made a very good decision. Well, best of luck to you, and enjoy your cruise!

[drb]

 

My original question was looking for someone with -specific- experience with using an expired passport. As yet, there have been none

 

 

 

Thank you to all others. I will actually try the expired passport and see how it works out and report back.

 

Perhaps you received nor response from anyone who has tried to use an

expired passport because no one reading this thread has ever tried it?

Perhaps that in and of itself is useful information?

[Traveler353]

Originally Posted by Kappa

My original question was looking for someone with -specific- experience with using an expired passport. As yet, there have been none

Thank you to all others. I will actually try the expired passport and see how it works out and report back.

Could be because most people know what "expired" means and are smart enought to just get a new one and not have to worry about it.;)

[Philip217]

I'm so upset today. My latest copy of Porthole magazine didn't arrive.

When I contacted the publisher, they explained that they were not sending me any more magazines because my subscription had EXPIRED.

 

The nerve of those people. Talk about bad service...........................

[PhoenixCruiser]

Cruises are sooooo cheap these days...and common sense is not so common....

 

###

[pg.]

Hi Kappa,

 

I am just wondering,( I know it wouldn't for me,, but I am not American), will the birth certifcate get you on a plane if for any reason you cannot return on the ship( you are left at port, or have to debark and get medical attention somewhere?). Wouldn't it be a huge hassle trying to fly home and apply for an emergency passport to do so( bet that will cost more then a regular expediated one). Just a thought.

 

Since you haven't booked cruise,, I am confused as to why you maintain you have no time to get pp.. ?

 

Anyways,, thanks for agreeing to come back and let us know how it goes,, it is hard when a few posters rib you,, but really ,, I don't think anyone is trying to be being mean,, just silly fun a bit, but at your expense,, I do hope that is the only extra "expense" you encounter on this trip.

[njhorseman]

We're hoping to sail 12/12 from NYC->Bahamas and back. NCL tells me that I will be fine if I bring my expired passport as it is a "closed loop" itinerary. However, there is nothing on their site or the State Dept site saying this works.

 

Has anyone done this?

 

Thanks

 

NCL's Web site clearly says it has to be a valid passport:

 

http://www.ncl.com/nclweb/cruiser/cmsPages.html?pageId=FAQ#visas

For closed-loop sailings (cruises that depart from and return to the same U.S. port), you need a valid passport, proof of citizenship and a valid government-issued photo I.D. (driver's license with a photo), or any other WHTI compliant document. Proof of Citizenship examples include: an original or state certified copy of a U.S. or Canadian birth certificate, certificate of U.S. naturalization, original certificate of U.S. citizenship, or a U.S. Consular report of your birth abroad.

 

The Department of Homeland Security just uses the word "passport", and a reasonable interpretation of that would seem to be "passport" means "valid passport".

 

An expired passport serving as valid ID comes from a time prior to the current version of the rules.

[njhorseman]

Hi Kappa,

 

I am just wondering,( I know it wouldn't for me,, but I am not American), will the birth certifcate get you on a plane if for any reason you cannot return on the ship( you are left at port, or have to debark and get medical attention somewhere?). Wouldn't it be a huge hassle trying to fly home and apply for an emergency passport to do so( bet that will cost more then a regular expediated one). Just a thought.

 

Since you haven't booked cruise,, I am confused as to why you maintain you have no time to get pp.. ?

 

Anyways,, thanks for agreeing to come back and let us know how it goes,, it is hard when a few posters rib you,, but really ,, I don't think anyone is trying to be being mean,, just silly fun a bit, but at your expense,, I do hope that is the only extra "expense" you encounter on this trip.

 

He said he wanted to take a cruise departing 12/12.

[spongerob]

An expired passport is likely to be just as good as an expired driver's license if you happen to get pulled over for speeding. At the very least, expect a lot of hassle. At worst, well, you can imagine...

[Kluge]

For all of the "wits" who demonstrated their intellectual superiority over the OP by insisting that an expired passport is essentially trash - try renewing your passport after it has expired without the old, "expired" document! If you have an expired passport that's less than 15 years old, you can renew by mail. If not - prepare to stand in some lines. http://travel.state.gov/passport/get/renew/renew_833.html So, yeah, that "expired" document has value. And yes - once my wallet was stolen and before I received my replacement drivers' license I actually was pulled over (not for speeding, though!) I handed the officer my old "expired" license I'd pulled out of my sock drawer and explained the situation. Guess what? My "expired" drivers license served the necessary purpose of identifying me as me - with no problem.

 

So the OP's question was not stupid, and the answer not obvious. I agree that it's wise to supplement that document with another, readily obtainable form of acceptable ID, but if the passport's function is simply to confirm identity, rather than to establish legal right to enter the country (which apparently is the case in "closed loop" travel) it's not at all clear that an "expired" assport couldn't suffice.

[njhorseman]

For all of the "wits" who demonstrated their intellectual superiority over the OP by insisting that an expired passport is essentially trash - try renewing your passport after it has expired without the old, "expired" document! If you have an expired passport that's less than 15 years old, you can renew by mail. If not - prepare to stand in some lines. http://travel.state.gov/passport/get/renew/renew_833.html So, yeah, that "expired" document has value. And yes - once my wallet was stolen and before I received my replacement drivers' license I actually was pulled over (not for speeding, though!) I handed the officer my old "expired" license I'd pulled out of my sock drawer and explained the situation. Guess what? My "expired" drivers license served the necessary purpose of identifying me as me - with no problem.

 

So the OP's question was not stupid, and the answer not obvious. I agree that it's wise to supplement that document with another, readily obtainable form of acceptable ID, but if the passport's function is simply to confirm identity, rather than to establish legal right to enter the country (which apparently is the case in "closed loop" travel) it's not at all clear that an "expired" assport couldn't suffice.[/quote]

 

Except that it's not just for identity purposes, and if you read the rules that is obvious from the options offered for acceptable documentation. Identity documents have to be paired with citizenship type documents such as a birth certificate. No one can cruise solely on an identity document.

 

By the way, the police officer accepted your expired drivers license and took you at your word because he was excercising some discretion because you were the victim of a crime. When people have a passport stolen while abroad the US Consulate or Embassy will issue a document allowing travel home without the passport. That's a far cry from a situation where someone simply doesn't have the proper documentation.

[Kluge]

So why would an 11 year old passport, with your name and picture in it, be less authoritative proof of citizenship than a 40 year old birth certificate with your name on it (along with current photo ID, of course?) Just because a passport has to be renewed periodically for international travel (with a new photo) doesn't mean it loses its probative value as proof of citizenship the minute it expires.

 

Of course, the authorities can make any rules they want. But the OP's question still wasn't irrational. A recently expired passport is probably better proof of citizenship than a birth certificate - and the birth certificate is acceptable proof of citizenship for "closed loop" travel when presented with current photo ID.

[room010]

I think the main concern is that IF you find yourself offloaded, miss the boat or some other unforeseen event forces you to make your own way home if you don't have a valid passport you almost certainly won't be able to travel. Yes, you can organise a temporary passport from a US consulate in certain circumstances to enable you to travel home but it can be a long and expensive process. If you are willing to take a gamble and only have ID documents instead of a passport that's fine but you can avoid the possibility entirely by simply renewing an expired passport.

[donaldsc]

Only a year or two expired. They tell me as long as they haven't been expired for more than 10 yrs.

 

I'm tempted to just wing it, but it would suck to be deprived of a much needed vacation because of paperwork. And I'm afraid I won't have a leg to stand on if there were trouble.

 

If you have no problems, you should be OK. However, if you do have any problems, you won't as you put it "have a leg to stand on" and since you have chosen not to have an up-to-date passport, you should not expect any sympathy from anyone.

 

DON

[njhorseman]

So why would an 11 year old passport, with your name and picture in it, be less authoritative proof of citizenship than a 40 year old birth certificate with your name on it (along with current photo ID, of course?) Just because a passport has to be renewed periodically for international travel (with a new photo) doesn't mean it loses its probative value as proof of citizenship the minute it expires.

 

Of course, the authorities can make any rules they want. But the OP's question still wasn't irrational. A recently expired passport is probably better proof of citizenship than a birth certificate - and the birth certificate is acceptable proof of citizenship for "closed loop" travel when presented with current photo ID.

 

 

And thats' really the point. The rules are the rules, whether you think they're good bad or indifferent.

 

By the way, curerent passports include security features that were not part of passports 10 or 15 years ago. Even drivers licenses due to federal mandate now require substantially more proof of identity to obtain than they did 5 or so years ago.

 

Questions about passport requirements are asked time and time again on Cruise Critic. In a significant percentage of the cases, the OP ends up copping an attitude because they get an answer they didn't want to hear. There have been times I've quoted page the government rules, supplemented by multiple cruise lines FAQs that agree with and confirm the government's rules, and still get an argument about it. I think what may be happening is they realize they don't have the proper documentation, are too close to departure to obtain it, and come on here hoping that someone will give them an alternative. When they don't get the answer they want they get hostile. Now I'm not saying that's the case here, but I have seen it time and time again. It gets old very quickly.