Veendam 'too big' to get into St Georges, Bermuda

[ziggypup]

Does this mean dredging? Is it being considered by Bermuda Government? How long would it take to complete the project if they decided to do it?

 

Stephen? Any ideas about this?

 

 

Let them start dredging tomorrow. They can start with a kids sand shovel and bucket until they get the proper equipment over there!!!!

[mamaofami]

Maybe I'm missing something, but HAL always tenders to HMC and I have yet to hear anyone complain about that. This will be a larger tender and it seems that wheelchairs and scooters will be allowed onboard. Should work out fine unless the weather is awful.

[TPKeller]

Neither HAL nor Bermuda Government has confirm the story in the Bermuda Sun, but the facts are true. As far as I know the ship will anchor in Murray's Anchorage and passengers will be tendered into St George's on the large tender BERMUDIAN, not the ship's own tenders.

This is an interesting story. I Googled and found a chart that shows Murray's Anchorage off the north side of the island, just north and west of Tobacco Bay.

 

I think I also have a picture of a ship anchored there from one of my previous visits.

 

It will be interesting to watch and see how this plays out.

 

Theron

[ziggypup]

Maybe I'm missing something, but HAL always tenders to HMC and I have yet to hear anyone complain about that. This will be a larger tender and it seems that wheelchairs and scooters will be allowed onboard. Should work out fine unless the weather is awful.

 

I can only speak for myself. But I was looking forward to being able to come and go at all hours of the day or night. If I wanted to go into town for some nightlife and not return to the ship until 1 AM, will the tenders still be running at all hours? Being docked was a big plus in this regard.

 

Plus I have 2 wheelchair bound relatives that I need to be concerned over.

 

I have to say that this whole situation sounds very dumb. How do you schedule a itinerary which has you docked at a port and then say.........oops, the ship won't fit. Who was the brain surgeon behind this one?

 

Does anyone have any idea how long the tender would take to get from the ship to the dock? Thanks

[TPKeller]

Maybe I'm missing something, but HAL always tenders to HMC and I have yet to hear anyone complain about that. This will be a larger tender and it seems that wheelchairs and scooters will be allowed onboard. Should work out fine unless the weather is awful.

There could be a problem with the time. Looking at the chart in my previous post, I suspect the tender travel time would be every bit of 30-40 minutes, and when you count the load time on the ship, and the unload time at the dock, plus the return trip back to the ship, the total tender cycle time could easily exceed 90 minutes. Even at 700+ passengers per cycle, that leaves a good number of people waiting at least one if not two tender cycles to get ashore.

 

Same problem later in the day when it's time to go.

 

I don't want to sound overly pessimistic, but that is the problem they have in front of them to be solved.

 

Theron

[Nancyquilts]

Bring back the Horizon.:D

[ziggypup]

There could be a problem with the time. Looking at the chart in my previous post, I suspect the tender travel time would be every bit of 30-40 minutes, and when you count the load time on the ship, and the unload time at the dock, plus the return trip back to the ship, the total tender cycle time could easily exceed 90 minutes. Even at 700+ passengers per cycle, that leaves a good number of people waiting at least one if not two tender cycles to get ashore.

 

Same problem later in the day when it's time to go.

 

I don't want to sound overly pessimistic, but that is the problem they have in front of them to be solved.

 

Theron

 

You would think that they would have a few tenders running at the same time. You can't load one up and have people waiting another hour for the next one. Especially when you have a older crowd that does not move to fast to begin with.

[broberts]

The problem is VEENDAM's greater beam and draught... made worse by the additional cabins aft.

 

Dredging Town Cut is out. It is solid rock and would have to be blasted and there are environmental concerns about widening the cut. It would allow swells to roll into the small harbour. No good. Even worse, it wwoudl allow some large and nasty RCI and NCL ships into St Geo and that would ruin the port!!!!

Stephen

 

ShipTips lists the Veendam's draft at 24' and the Dream's at 23'. But the Veendam's stats appear to be pre refit so it's possible that its draft is deeper.

 

Given how close the two ships are in draft it's possible that the HAL decision not to risk the Town Cut is down to differing safety margins.

[Solo1959]

...it's possible that the HAL decision not to risk the Town Cut is down to differing safety margins.

Do we know yet if this was a HAL decision? I can not imagine they are happy.

[mamaofami]

I do see that on my cruise in October, the Veendam leaves St. George at 2pm. That could easily cause some people to be left behind.

[RuthC]

I have been tendered on both Oosterdam and Westerdam with my 3 wheeled scooter on the ship's tenders with no problem.

 

Whoever told you they cannot is WRONG!!!!

Since you have only two HAL cruises, both on Vista ships, you may not be aware that the smaller ships have a different set-up for boarding ship's tenders. Boarding with a wheelchair or scooter passenger is not always possible.

[ivoryboi]

HAL! Swap ships! Send one of the other pre drydock S-class ship there and replace that itinerary with the Veendam!

 

Easy right?:confused:

[CRUISEMAN72]

I am scheduled to be on that cruise in april so i am glad to know that. Hell i might cancell

[Mary Ellen]

ziggypup - I wouldn't get your hopes up about the ability to tender with a scooter. I'm pretty darn sure that the feature is ONLY on the Vista ships (poss the new Signature class too). I remember calling my brother to tell him that he might be able to go ashore more with this feature. It would be best to contact the Access & Compliance Department directly at 800-547-8493 rather than rely on the information here.

 

Have you seen this page on the HAL site?

[IRL_Joanie]

Do we know yet if this was a HAL decision? I can not imagine they are happy.

 

Read POST 19 it is the OFFICIAL WORD!!!

 

And by the way when you read it you will see that it is a 700 pax tender and takes 30 minutes 1 way.

 

Joanie

[ziggypup]

ziggypup - I wouldn't get your hopes up about the ability to tender with a scooter. I'm pretty darn sure that the feature is ONLY on the Vista ships (poss the new Signature class too). I remember calling my brother to tell him that he might be able to go ashore more with this feature. It would be best to contact the Access & Compliance Department directly at 800-547-8493 rather than rely on the information here.

 

Have you seen this page on the HAL site?

 

Well for what its worth, my TA called HAL and they stated that scooters will be able to board the tenders. Maybe the answer will change tomorrow. LOL

 

I am more concerned with a 30/40 minute tender ride. Like one of my roll call comrades said.......being docked in St. George was a big selling point. If they take that away I think most of my traveling companions might want to bail out.

[FIRELT5]

I wonder if anyone thought about the weather conditions in BDA. Prevailing winds in May & June are usually out of an easterly component ( NE/E/SE/) avg at about 15-20 Knots. It will be a fun ride going to the Cut from the point !!!!

[MERIDIAN]

Bring back the Horizon.:D

 

Bring back the Zenith too! Celebrity custom built both specifically for Bermuda and believe it or not the Pacific princess(original love boat)and her sister Island Princess were too, although they were built as Sea Venture and Island Venture to reflect Bermuda's Heritage. Todays market is all about balconies and the cruise lines did not see a profitable future for them oldies but I bet they would still sail full with a St.George/Hamilton/N.Y. run.

I know one cabin that would be booked for sure!

[FIRELT5]

Premier confirms cruise ship dilemma

WEDNESDAY, DEC. 16: Premier Dr. Ewart Brown this afternoon confirmed that a cruise ship that was due to dock in St George's next year is too big to get through Town Cut.

 

The Bermuda Sun revealed this morning how simulation tests on the ms Veendam showed she could not sail into St George's Harbour as she would hit the sea bottom.

 

The cruise liner will now have to drop anchor out at sea at Murray's Anchorage and passengers will be ferried into the town.

 

In a statement released this afternoon, Dr. Brown said: "We had hoped the Veendam would be able to navigate Town Cut and dock in St. George's in 2010, however simulations have shown this will not be possible.

 

"This situation illustrates the challenge we have in regards to St. George's."

 

He added: "Although the Veendam will not physically dock in St. George's in 2010, the tendering arrangement will still provide their guests with a St. George's experience during their stay in Bermuda.

 

"It is often the case that cruise passengers who tender rather than dock stay longer in the destination, including having lunch and participate in activities.

 

"This also shows our commitment to keeping a cruise ship presence in St. George's."

 

The Ministry of Tourism and Transport will implement a ferry service on Tuesdays from Murray's Anchorage.

 

The Veendam will continue to Hamilton on Wednesdays as currently scheduled, and will depart Bermuda on Fridays.

 

The cruise ship is scheduled to make 24 cruises to Bermuda in 2010 and will contribute an estimated $7 million to Bermuda's economy.

 

The ferrying from Murray's Anchorage will be weather permitting.

[Solo1959]

Read POST 19 it is the OFFICIAL WORD!!!

 

And by the way when you read it you will see that it is a 700 pax tender and takes 30 minutes 1 way.

 

Joanie

Yes. But it looks like it wasn't a HAL choice, it was imposed on them. Either way, not good at all :(

[ziggypup]

I am just curious about one other thing. Is HAL going to notify everyone that has a reservation regarding the change? Only a small percentage of passengers actually read Cruise Critic or stay up to date on cruise news.

 

I can see a big problem brewing if the bulk of the passengers find this out once they have boarded, especially the disabled passengers who were planning on a nice easy roll off into town.

 

Guess then they would point out the fine print of the cruise contract which allows them to do pretty much whatever they want.

[RuthC]

I do see that on my cruise in October, the Veendam leaves St. George at 2pm. That could easily cause some people to be left behind.

But isn't the ship just heading over to Hamilton? That's not a big deal, as it's an easy bus ride there. Just join up with the ship once it arrives.

The last time I cruised to Bermuda we were at St. Georges first. There was a choice whether to ride or spend the day on the island and catch up with the ship later.

[TPKeller]

I wonder what the difference is between high and low tide at the Town Cut? I wonder if they could schedule a passage during the first high tide after they arrive?

 

Even if you had to use a tender to get the first big groups off the ship, it seems like that would be better than tendering for the entire time you were there. Such a schedule could easily be determined well ahead of time, tides are rather predictable.

 

And where's that AlGore, Inc., and his ever rising sea levels when you need them?? :eek:

 

Theron

[mamaofami]

But isn't the ship just heading over to Hamilton? That's not a big deal, as it's an easy bus ride there. Just join up with the ship once it arrives.

The last time I cruised to Bermuda we were at St. Georges first. There was a choice whether to ride or spend the day on the island and catch up with the ship later.

 

Ruth, that's an excellent point I didn't think of. I'm guessing if the weather holds out, this shouldn't be a big problem.

[Copper10-8]

......................... As far as I know the ship will anchor in Murray's Anchorage and passengers will be tendered into St George's on the large tender BERMUDIAN, not the ship's own tenders. .................................

 

Hey Capt., Merry Christmas! :)

Would this be her?