New Ships

[cruisin36]

This from Captain Tony Yeomans:

 

Princess has two new shipd planned, one for 2013 and one for 2014. They will be based on the Grand Class however somewhat larger in tonnage and passengers. 3600 passengers. There will be NO promenade deck and the tenders will hang outside of the ship instead of over the promenade deck as they do now, thus elimanting one extra movement of the lift system. This is all he had to offer.

 

Another factoid - the gross tonnage of the ship is based on one ton being equal to 100 cubic feet of cargo space, the passengers being the cargo. The actual displaced water weight of the ship, in this case the Ruby, is about 59,000 tons. Again according to Capt. Yeomans

[paul929207]

Thanks for the info.

[DanJ]

Interesting about the lifeboat design. I had heard that was how the lifeboats were designed on the Oasis, so they don't need to be moved out and lowered to the Promenade deck for boarding. They would just be boarded where they are in the unlikely event they ever were needed. I wonder if this has any affect on balcony designs or views down the side of the ship. We all know on the current Grand and derivative plans, the roofs over the lifeboats serve as the balconies for the Dolphin deck mini-suites. I wonder if this means in the future, you would look down onto lifeboats instead of balconies.

[TorontoTL]

I can't imagine a Princess ship having no promenade deck. I love the promenade deck, and how will passengers in an emergency get onto the life boats without an outside deck?

[litehouz70]

I agree, I can't imagine no prom deck either. I always like walking the promedade, especially after over eating at dinner .;)

[DanJ]

and how will passengers in an emergency get onto the life boats without an outside deck?

 

I remember on the Carnival Victory, there was a boat deck above the promenade. It was only open during the muster drill, but this was where you went to board the boats in an emergency. Maybe a similar setup here.

[cruisin36]

I don't know where they are going to put the extra 500 pax? Perhaps they will be putting cabins on the promenade deck. The ship is going to be wider than current Grand Class, although I can't remember what the Capt said. I think it is in the 130,000 ton category. He also mentioned that the plans have not been finalized. So, things could change.

 

One good thing is that Princess has no intention of going MegaBig like the Oasis.

[Shifra]

No promenade! I hope this is not true.......this is one of my favorite places on any ship. I hope Princess doesn't start eliminating outside space for more cabins and pax. Please Princess say it ain't so. :eek:

[sunsetbeachgal]

Wow...no promenade deck? Hard to imagine! In my opinion the Promenade deck on Princess larger ships is already not wide enough...it is not nearly as nice and wide as the promenade deck on the Island/Coral, and I do not like how you have to go up and down the stairs to get around...I wish they would do away with that!!

[janacin]

I can't imagine cruising without a prominade deck. Princes's big mistake on the Golden was to eliminate deck chairs on the prominade and just put a few hard wooden benches there. If you wanted to relax out of the sun there were few places you could go.

[NotWthOutablcony]

Oh goody, sounds like more pax, less space, yes I love being crammed into a ship full of people. And no promenade deck? I really hope these are just rumors, ideas their playing around with. They have a wonderful opportunity to create two ships that will draw the crowds in, specifically by their own design and it doesn't sound like they are using this opporunity to its full potential.:rolleyes:

[cruisin36]

Oh goody, sounds like more pax, less space, yes I love being crammed into a ship full of people. And no promenade deck? I really hope these are just rumors, ideas their playing around with. They have a wonderful opportunity to create two ships that will draw the crowds in, specifically by their own design and it doesn't sound like they are using this opporunity to its full potential.:rolleyes:

 

Rumor? It came directly from Capt Tony Yeomans just last week and he has seen the plans. He did state, however, that plans have not been finalized and things could change.

[BOBMJ]

Because Princess is part of Carnaval, we need to look as the new Carnaval Drean who was done by Fincantieri

 

You can see the tenders being outside of the boat but a promenade deck exist over them

The Carnaval Dream is for 3646 PAx and 130,000 tons

 

If you like more info go to this site

http://paquebots.fr/drupal/en/cruise-ship_sheet?id=Carnival%20Dream#

 

[Cruisin' Chick]

No jogging deck?

 

I'm guessing these are the two ships that were discussed about a month or so ago.

[Roses2]

Yes, this is not new information and has been discussed on CC at length. The announcement was made in February about the two new builds.

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1145410&highlight=new+builds

 

Carnival Corporation & plc has announced the signing of a memorandum of agreement with Italian shipbuilder Fincantieri for the construction of two 3,600-passenger cruise ships for its Princess Cruises brand. The agreement is subject to execution of a definitive contract, financing, and other customary closing conditions.

 

The new ships, which will have an all-in cost of approximately €155,000 per lower berth, are scheduled to enter service in spring 2013 and spring 2014. At 139,000 tons each, the as-yet-unnamed ships will be the largest in the Princess Cruises fleet. Additional details will be announced at a later date.

 

Carnival Corporation is the largest cruise vacation group in the world, with a portfolio of cruise brands in North America, Europe and Australia, comprised of Carnival Cruise Lines, Holland America Line, Princess Cruises, The Yachts of Seabourn, AIDA Cruises, Costa Cruises, Cunard Line, Ibero Cruises, Ocean Village, P&O Cruises and P&O Cruises Australia.

[ssbeagle]

I don't understand why Carnival has to follow what RCL is doing with their Monstrosity of the Seas ships. I will never sail on such a large ship and even the Crown Princess is larger than I like in a ship. I saw the Oasis in Fort Lauderdale and there is no way I'd go on it. Too many people and too big. We just got off the Crown yesterday and I believe Carnival Corp is slowly ruining the Princess brand.

[DanJ]

Rumor? It came directly from Capt Tony Yeomans just last week and he has seen the plans. He did state, however, that plans have not been finalized and things could change.

 

Your second sentence is the operative one here. The deal hasn't even been signed yet, as per the Carnival quarterly report. A memorandum isn't a signed deal. I think people are so starved for something new from Princess that they will jump on every little story as it's it's gospel. Last summer, some captain said at a circle party that a new Princess ship was already being built for another line and people jumped on that as word from the mount, and where is that ship?

[caribill]

Because Princess is part of Carnaval, we need to look as the new Carnaval Drean who was done by Fincantieri

 

You can see the tenders being outside of the boat but a promenade deck exist over them

The Carnaval Dream is for 3646 PAx and 130,000 tons

 

If you like more info go to this site

http://paquebots.fr/drupal/en/cruise-ship_sheet?id=Carnival%20Dream#

 

 

And the lifeboats location kept the Dream from docking in San Juan

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/cruises/item.aspx?type=blog&ak=620003207.blog

[knorrisb07]

This from Captain Tony Yeomans:

 

Princess has two new shipd planned, one for 2013 and one for 2014. They will be based on the Grand Class however somewhat larger in tonnage and passengers. 3600 passengers. There will be NO promenade deck and the tenders will hang outside of the ship instead of over the promenade deck as they do now, thus elimanting one extra movement of the lift system. This is all he had to offer.

 

Another factoid - the gross tonnage of the ship is based on one ton being equal to 100 cubic feet of cargo space, the passengers being the cargo. The actual displaced water weight of the ship, in this case the Ruby, is about 59,000 tons. Again according to Capt. Yeomans

 

thanks for the info. some interesting facts there

[Commodore]

To be delivered in 2012 and 2013 each 1500 cabins and 139000 tons

[BruceMuzz]

I don't understand why Carnival has to follow what RCL is doing with their Monstrosity of the Seas ships. I will never sail on such a large ship and even the Crown Princess is larger than I like in a ship. I saw the Oasis in Fort Lauderdale and there is no way I'd go on it. Too many people and too big. We just got off the Crown yesterday and I believe Carnival Corp is slowly ruining the Princess brand.

 

You don't understand because you are not thinking like a businessman.

It's ALWAYS about the money.

RCCL is getting fantastic financial returns on their new mega-ships.

You don't like the monster ships? I don't either.

 

But large corporations that cater to the MASSES really don't care what you or I as individuals like or don't like.

They only care what the MASSES like.

 

The MASSES have already voted overwhelmingly with their wallets. They love it.

Many more mega-ships will be coming.

 

You are probably correct that Carnival is ruining the Princess Brand - at least for YOU.

(me too, by the way)

But you may be surprised to learn that Mickey Arison is not maintaining the Princess Brand for ssbeagle's personal gratification. He is going after the MASS MARKET.

He actually is trying to make Princess more profitable by reducing costs (cutbacks) and taking advantage of the economy of scale of larger ships.

By dumbing down the product and keeping it cheap, he is making it more appealing to the MASSES of humanity that made Wal-Mart the most wildly successful retailer in America. Wal-Mart and Carnival Corp have both proven many times that one can never lose money by underestimating the taste of the American Public.

 

EVERY indicator says that if you want to make money in the cruise industry, this is the way to go.

 

You and I could continue to do business with him - and continue complaining that he is not satisfying our needs. Or we could put our money where our mouths are and vote for a smaller, pricier, higher quality cruise line that appeals to OUR personal tastes.

[Commodore]

I hate the new big ships,but I like the Princess style so I have no choice.

Princess to build two MegaShips

The parent company of Princess Cruise Lines, Carnival Corp., just announced that Princess will build two new brand new ships of an entirely new class. The two new ships are scheduled to arrive in 2013 and 2014. Both of these ships will come in at 139,000-tons - larger than almost every ship Carnival Corp ship has ever built except for Cunard's Queen Mary 2 at 148,000-tons.

 

Just a few weeks ago Micky Arison, CEO of Carnival Corp., reiterated that Carnival would never build a ship the size of Oasis of the Seas, and in fact Oasis is about 35% larger at 220,000-tons and a berth capacity of 5400 passengers. Still, these new ships actually represent a significant size. The number 139,000-tons is the same as Royal Caribbean's Voyager-class which was the standard bearer of mega-ship status for many years.

What will these new Princess ships be like? At a passenger capacity of 3600 people they will be fairly dense in terms of passenger/space ratio. The Voyager class has a passenger capacity of 3114 for a ship the same size. The larger Queen Mary 2, which boasts 148,000 gross tons, carries almost 1000 fewer guests.

Meanwhile - the cruise line that is most often cited as Princess' nearest competitor, Celebrity, has the Solstice class of ships that comes in at 122,000-tons and a passenger capacity of 2850 berths.

At first blush, it appears that Princess is packing an awful lot of passengers into these new ships for their size, but they are not anywhere close to what Carnival has in its newest ship, Carnival Dream, with 3652 passenger berths on a 130,000-ton ship.

There is a ship standard for comparing the available space onboard a ship called the "passenger space ratio." It is derived by dividing the gross tonnage by the ship's berth capacity. We use the berth capacity because few ships ever sail completely full. On average throughout the industry, most cruise ships sail at 2% to 4% more passengers than the berth capacity.

So, comparing the passenger space ratio on these larger cruise ships we get:

Queen Mary 2: 56.4

Celebrity Solstice: 42.8

Oasis of the Seas: 40.7

The "New" Princess Ships: 38.6

Ruby Princess: 36.6

Carnival Dream: 35.5

The larger the number, the better. It represents the number of square meters available per guest on the ship. Of course, it is a very loose interpretation because it includes the entire ship and does not compare public spaces to staterooms or the crew area, for example. Still, it actually turns out to be a very useful comparator.

Queen Mary 2 is the clear winner, and certainly enough the available space onboard is used to give it grandeur. The rooms are large and majestic, much like Grand Central Station in New York with its ten story ceiling but only one ground floor.

Celebrity Solstice is Similar to Queen Mary 2 in terms of using size for grandeur, although the ratio is lower and more space is given over to additional alternative dining spots and special lounges such as the wine bar. Still, Solstice has grandeur with long and tall corridors filled with flowing floor to ceiling drapes.

Royal Caribbean ships are slightly different. They have plenty of size but are not as majestic as the ships listed above. The space is packed with a greater variety of public rooms and onboard attractions. The newer ones have a huge internal horizontal atrium

Oasis of the Seas is unique among all cruise ships. Much of the size is given over to public space including massive open air corridors between the staterooms for Central Park and the Boardwalk. Oasis is one of the least crowded mainstream ships despite its record breaking passenger capacity.

So, what remains to be seen is how well Princess will utilize the space onboard these new ships. Even with the larger passenger capacity they will be more spacious than the latest ships to arrive from Princess, Ruby and Emerald Princess. Plus, Princess innovated the concept of making large ships feel smaller. Sapphire Princess has five separate dining rooms, each of them able to feed just about 400 people at once. That makes the ship feel much smaller than it is, especially compared to Oasis of the Seas which has just one dining room for as many as 2500 diners at the same time.

No matter what, Princess always excels in the ways that are most important to passengers, food, service and destinations. Their staterooms are roomy and their crewmembers are loyal and efficient. Even if these ships are bigger and hold a larger number of passengers, size has its advantages and it is extremely interesting to explore the different ways in which space has been utilized on different ships.

It will be interesting to see what Princess does with these new designs. Of all of the Carnival Corp. ships, their biggest ships; Queen Mary 2 and Grand Princess, for example, tend to have the most interesting designs.

[Sea Day Cruiser]

One of my favorite places on a cruise ship is the promenade deck, both for walking and just sitting and watching the ocean. Judging by the numbers of people I usually see on the promenade deck, I'm not the only one who likes it there. If these ships don't have promenade decks, they are ships I will never be on. It seems like Princess really doesn't care what people want in a cruise ship.

[BruceMuzz]

One of my favorite places on a cruise ship is the promenade deck, both for walking and just sitting and watching the ocean. Judging by the numbers of people I usually see on the promenade deck, I'm not the only one who likes it there. If these ships don't have promenade decks, they are ships I will never be on. It seems like Princess really doesn't care what people want in a cruise ship.

 

Sea Day Cruiser,

 

The cruise lines learned long ago that the cruising public loves to complain - and many love to claim that they will "Never again sail on xxxx line". Guess what, they are back on the same "terrible line" for their next cruise, deciding to give the cruise line one more chance.

 

The cruise executives also know that most of the cruising public are very easily controlled, very predictable, and generally unwilling to switch to an unfamiliar cruise line.

 

If you read the post before yours, a poster named "Commodore" tells us he hates big new ships, but likes the Princess Style, so has no choice.

 

Of course he has a choice - many choices - but he is unwilling to change. He is hardly in a minority. The cruise lines know that. They know that the majority of passengers are like cattle, occasionally making a bit of fuss about something new, but quickly settling in and obediently following the rest of the herd to the slaughterhouse.

 

No promenade deck a big problem?

Many of the old Carnival ships had no promenade deck.

Carnival Cruises has had the highest Guest Satisfaction ratings in the cruise industry every year since 1995.

Carnival Cruises has had the highest profitability in the cruise industry since 1990.

Maybe no promenade deck is not as big a problem as it might seem.

 

That's how the cruise line executive look at it.

[maxxedout2]

Last week, at the Captain's Circle Cocktail Party on the Crown

Princess, Capt. Nash mentioned that the new ships are thought

to be a stretched version of the 'Ruby'. Little concrete info is

available yet, of course. Some mention was made of Casino

redesign on these ships.

 

I hope Princess avoids the 'Container Ship look of

the Monstrosity of the Seas.

 

To me, the problem with Super Ships (Monstrosity of the Seas)

is they are limited to fewer ports. The 'ship' is the main destination.

 

We are new to cruising compared to many here but we

want to visit as many new ports as possible and so we

will never cruise on the Monstrosity.

 

:cool::cool: