Body Scan/Full Pat Down and Children?

[mom2two2]

I just posted this on the Cruise Air Board but thought this may also be of interest over here.

 

I have been hearing a lot recently (of course) about the full body scans vs pat down. For myself, I do not really care too much if they want to do a scan of a 30-something Mom and have been pat down on the way into concerts many times over the years. My concern are my kids. They will be 11 and 8 at the time we fly and I am a little worried. What is the policy with children? I do not know if I am comfortable with them capturing screen images of my children through their clothes but I don't want them touching them either.

 

Anyone know how this sort of thing is being handled?

 

Thanks

mom2two2

[6rugrats]

We recently flew with our DD, age 10, and she went through the body scanner, the same as the adults. None of us received a patdown. She came through unscathed.

[VikkiGarcia]

The full body scanner is the easy way to go. I see plenty of families use them. The best way seems to be have one adult first, then all the kids, then an adult bringing up the rear. At our airport (not sure if this is the same everywhere) you never see the person who monitors the scan. I am surprised by how many people refuse to use them and will wait SIGNIFICANTLY longer for the other option.

[nrs377]

I could be wrong, but I don't think they can pat down an underaged child. I think the guy that started all this recently for not wanting his "junk" touched was out of line. He knows the rules and the chance of being searched, he has the right to choose not to fly. Anyhow, I could be wrong about the child.

[Kerry's Girls]

We sailed in January, so it was before this latest increase, but during a time of increased security with no choice of having the machine body scanner, so we were all subject to being checked by security. For my 5 year old twins, a female security person asked me to ask my girls to give her a hug. The security person kneeled and each of my girls gave her a hug. I had no problem with this and my girls were fine about it. The new checks do look more....thorough...but if we fly I will just explain that because mommy is there and says it's ok, it's ok for these people to touch you because they're trying to keep us safe, like a doctor.

 

Best,

Mia

[karatemom2]

I could be wrong, but I don't think they can pat down an underaged child. I think the guy that started all this recently for not wanting his "junk" touched was out of line. He knows the rules and the chance of being searched, he has the right to choose not to fly. Anyhow, I could be wrong about the child.

 

They can and they do. This incident has been all over the news. I personally think it is outrageous and would never let anyone violate my child like this. As parents we should all be outraged!

 

http://www.newser.com/story/105351/tsa-pats-down-3-year-old.html

 

http://www.examiner.com/conservative-in-spokane/tsa-screener-terrorizes-3-year-old-girl

[Onessa]

http://www.newser.com/story/105351/tsa-pats-down-3-year-old.html

 

From this source = "Another airport security brouhaha: The TSA body-searched a 3-year-old girl at the airport in Chattanooga, Tenn., prompting screaming and tears. . . . It started, explained dad Steve Simon, after Mandy's teddy bear was taken from her for screening; she started crying, and had a "tough time" going through the metal detector. The alarm went off twice, which meant she "must be hand-searched." But, asks dad, "Did it have to be like this?"

 

No, it did not need to "be like this" and perhaps if the parents in question had better prepared the child it would not have been "like this".

 

This is a lesson to ALL parents to plan and prepare.

1. Plan trips that will require security when your kids are not due for a nap, after they've been fed, etc. Plan for plenty of time to get through the airport (or where ever). A rushed or tired or hungry kid is more likely to melt down.
   
2. Prepare the kid -- "your backback and your lovey will take a 'ride' on a conveyer belt" "you can watch your stuff come off the other side", "you will need to walk through the machine by yourself, but dad will be right in front of you and mom will be right behind", etc. Be there so you and your kid can watch some other people do it before it is your kid's turn.
   

Security is a fact of modern life.

[Kerry's Girls]

I agree Onessa. I find that my girls are guided by my behavior, so if I'm calm, respectful and act like it's no big deal, they do the same. The fact that the child in the story thought she could carry her teddy bear through shows she had not been prepared by her parents. Some of the comments in the story about how kids are not the danger so shouldn't be checked seem illogical to me...then wouldn't it just be a matter of time before children are used specifically for that purpose?

 

Best,

Mia

[mom2two2]

Please know that I am not at all opposed to security at the airport and I am happy to go through the proceudres to know we are safe. The kids have flown before but it was before all this business. I saw the footage on the news of the 3 year old in the TN airport and would not want my children checked like that. I think I would take the scan as a preference but was wondering....are these images STORED or once the next one comes through they are off the system? I am sure I am being too paranoid but I was just wondering....

 

Of course we will be sure to check the kids do not have anything on them that would set the machine off and so on. Hopefully it will be a non-issue.

[phantomtales]

There is no way I will be subjecting my two year old to the new screening. While the scanner emits only a small amount of radiation, it seems that no clinical tests have been done.

We teach children not to let people "touch their bathing suit parts" for obvious emotional reasons, this includes the TSA. If it was a medicinal issue that required these proceedures, the need outways the risks. But for a family vacation, I will stay local or home, vacation is just not important enough to take the risks. I have cancelled a planned trip to Boston and refrained from booking a Feb. cruise for this reason.

[donaldsc]

We recently flew with our DD, age 10, and she went through the body scanner, the same as the adults. None of us received a patdown. She came through unscathed.

 

If she starts traveling at a young age and does a lot of traveling, how much cumulative radiation will she accumulate in her lifetime?

 

Yes I know- the scanners are totally safe. I believe that because my government has told me that they are safe and my government would never lie to me.

 

DON

[bethaniesmom]

i figure if they have to scan this fifty something year old, over weight, body, be my guest as long as the pictures aren't where passengers can see them. But I am certainly glad that my children are long grown and don't have to be part of all this inspection process. I just feel like we are all going thru all of this, and the people who are going to be a problem are laughing somewhere as they find other ways to make our travel unsafe.

 

Beverly

[karatemom2]

There is no way I will be subjecting my two year old to the new screening. While the scanner emits only a small amount of radiation, it seems that no clinical tests have been done.

We teach children not to let people "touch their bathing suit parts" for obvious emotional reasons, this includes the TSA. If it was a medicinal issue that required these proceedures, the need outways the risks. But for a family vacation, I will stay local or home, vacation is just not important enough to take the risks. I have cancelled a planned trip to Boston and refrained from booking a Feb. cruise for this reason.

 

I agree wholeheartedly. I feel that they are taking it this to an unacceptable extreme with underage children who are unable to decide for themselves as an adult would if they are willing to submit to this type of invasion. I have an 11 year old daughter who is just entering puberty and it would absolutely horrify and traumatize her to submit to this level of search. I would never consent to it. I would gladly never fly as opposed to putting her through that. I also do not equate it to a medical need. Doctors are professionals who are trained to be sensitive to providing medical services in the most dignified and unobtrusive way possible. TSA agents are NOT doctors.

[Kerry's Girls]

Interesting to read everyone's take on it. Personally, there's no way something like this would keep me from vacationing (which I do think is important), and personally, I don't think the physical check is hurting my young children, but I understand why some may not find it acceptable and make their choices based on that. I would rather have the hand check than the body scanner for my girls, since, as previous posters have mentioned, I wouldn't want to find out 10 years from now they figured out the machines were harmful.

 

Best,

Mia

[brazilgirl]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

I have 3 kids ( ages 6 , 10 and 13). We fly internationally on a fairly regular basis.

 

I just think we need to prepare our kids that the security procedures are a fact of life. We have to do what we have to do. Fun? No...but kids all through the ages have had to things that are not too fun , like go on wagon trails across America and work in sweat shops. So , gotta face life´s realities.

 

I am not saying this in a condescending way , so please don´t take it that way. I think kids really pick up on parents´cues , so if we relax and act confidently , they will follow our lead and the procedure will go more quickly and less stressfully.

 

Happy flying!

Kim

[phantomtales]

I agree that family vacations/travel is important, I have traveled internationally for most of my life. I value my experiences and am saddened that in this current climate, I am forced to make a choice between my desire to travel and my 4th ammendment rights. The bottom line is, travel for me is a choice. I as an adult have to the oppurtunity to make the choice of being put at risk from the machines/pat down in an attempt to minimize the risk in the air. My son, as a minor is subjected to my choices. I have a moral obligation to protect him. Knowing nothing about the safety of the scanners, or the long term emotional effects of the pat downs, I feel obligated to protect him from the situation. If at some point, when he is older, he makes the choice to subject himslef to one or the other, then it is his choice.

 

Karatemom2: I have a 15 year old neice who is now refusing to go on the next family vacation because neither option is acceptable to her out of a sense of propriety.

[nybumpkin]

Five years ago we sailed on Carnival Conquest out of New Orleans. The kids were 5, 9 and 14. We planned to fly in two days before sailing to tour the city a bit. Our flight from Albany to Chicago early Friday morning went as scheduled, but our flight from Chicago to New Orleans was ... canceled. We couldn't book a flight until the following afternoon (thank goodness we allowed so much extra time to travel) and we were booked on a completely different airline than we booked for the rest of the trip. Of course, our luggage merrily went on its way to New Orleans without us. So there we were at O'Hare the next day - five passengers, one-way tickets, and no checked bags. That sets off all sorts of alarms, so of course all of us were chosen for "strict security." The agents pointed it out to us when they were checking IDs before we went through security, so we had a chance to prep our kids as to what was going to happen and they did great. We also had very good TSA agents who told the kids exactly what they were doing. Yeah, it's very disconcerting when you're standing there watching your 5 year-old standing spread eagle while an agent checks them, but if they've been prepped and the agent is trained well the kids aren't going to be scarred for life.

 

I also realize that today's "strict security" is different from the "strict security" five years ago. However, watching that video of the poor 3 year-old, I can only imagine that the TSA agent had absolutely no idea how to deal with an upset child and only made matters worse.

 

Having said all that...we have a flight booked in February to go to FLL, and we'll go. However, I'm tired of being completely stressed out when we fly to a vacation, so for the foreseeable future after February we're going to be driving to our vacations. We'll just take a couple of extra days on each end of the cruise so we can get to and from the port.

[chipmaster]

My thoughts are pretty simple. Want to fly there isn't much to argue about, deal with it. I will personaly choose the scaner for my children, myself I can' deal with whomever T TSA throws at me. Maybe I'm too worry free if some pervert is capturing the images I and my chidlren aren't so special that I will be showing up on the web or youtube or something.

 

I'll take this over higher risk of some incident on an airplane though I'm skeptical a clever terrorist won't figure another way to do wrong.

[SusieV]

We have enough concerns about the radiation in today's world without exposing ourselves to more- look at how much we get from cell phones, cordless phones, wireless networks, etc. That's all supposed to be "harmless", right?

 

I'm not really comfortable with either option but I guess I'd rather be groped than have potential permanent cumulative damage done to my body. At least being molested only hurts my pride. My son is only 1 so he won't know the difference but I don't know what we'll do when he's older. Perhaps choose to avoid the US in our travels.

[Tampacruiser128]

My thoughts are pretty simple. Want to fly there isn't much to argue about, deal with it. I will personaly choose the scaner for my children, myself I can' deal with whomever T TSA throws at me. Maybe I'm too worry free if some pervert is capturing the images I and my chidlren aren't so special that I will be showing up on the web or youtube or something.

 

I'll take this over higher risk of some incident on an airplane though I'm skeptical a clever terrorist won't figure another way to do wrong.

 

 

Have you actually seen the types of images these machines take? It looks like a picture of a doll, like a Barbie doll. It shows the outlines of your body, and nothing more invasive than that. I went flew last in Feb. and the scanners are simple and easy to get through, I watched several children go through with no issues.

 

Clothing companies a few years ago were using these same technologies to scan body images to create clothing that fits better. The amount of radiation these things use is significantly less than that emitted from x rays.

[SingleFatherofDD]

This discussion can get heated very easily. However, we as travelers have to remember we live in a very different world than we did a decade ago. Technology has changed both for security and also for the terrorists. We have never had a suicide attack where children are used on American soil, and I hope we never do. But in other countries these terrorists organizations use children to ambush and kill other people. Children have to be treated the same way as adults but there are ways we can do it. The TSA have to find ways to help make it easier for families to be comfortable traveling with young children.

 

I am a father of a DD who had a history of abuse by trusting members of the family before she was adopted by me. It took a while for her to get comfortable with strangers and new situations. Finally she is getting comfortable with these new things in her life. We are taking a cruise at the end of the year and it will be the first time that we might have to go through these new scanners. New York airports recently got them installed. If she doesn't pass the scanners than she will have to go to the pat down area. I really don't know what to expect if this happens. The only thing I am going to tell her before we go is that their is a possibility that she might be touched by a person. I will also explain she will have her clothes on, I will be their with her and we do this so we are safe on the plane we are flying on. A 5 year old can understand some of this.

 

There is two things that I worry about as a doctor. The first one is what happens to the children who are autistic. As we know these children are very difficult to understand. They have their own set of boundaries and if something comes in their area or is removed they will sometimes have a fit. Believe me that the TSA agents won't know what to do in this situations. They will probably do more harm than good. These agents need to be trained on how to handle children more carefully. Children are completely different than adults. The second thing I worry about is the radiation that these machines give out. These scanners are like fluoroscopy machines that we use during surgery. They give out small doses of radiation each time they take a picture. We as doctors wear meters on our clothes to see how much radiation we get. Also we wear leaded vest to protect our organs. In moderation these scanners won't cause harm but over many years they might.

 

Let me give you an example of something:

A 5 year old child goes on two vacations a year. That is a minimum of 4 scans of the body if they travel by air. One each way. Then they get x-rays at the dentist for routine check ups. Say they break a bone one year. They get another set of x-rays. It adds up over time. That is why as good doctors we try not to take to many x-rays or CT scans. It is funny that some parents want a CT scan of their children when they have a concussion. Most of the time these children don't need a CT scan. It is when they lose consciousness that we give children CT scans.

 

We have the right to travel and the right to refuse searches but we have to make the choice what we want more. I know for sure I want to travel and I want to be as safe as I can be. If it means giving up some freedoms so be it. However, everyone has their own minds and can make their own choices.

[Scrapchick]

I agree wholeheartedly. I feel that they are taking it this to an unacceptable extreme with underage children who are unable to decide for themselves as an adult would if they are willing to submit to this type of invasion. I have an 11 year old daughter who is just entering puberty and it would absolutely horrify and traumatize her to submit to this level of search. I would never consent to it. I would gladly never fly as opposed to putting her through that. I also do not equate it to a medical need. Doctors are professionals who are trained to be sensitive to providing medical services in the most dignified and unobtrusive way possible. TSA agents are NOT doctors.

 

Word to all of that... I think this is horrendous. My DD is 9 and I don't want her body to be effectively strip searched by these oh so safe and harmless machines or for her to have her private parts touched by some TSA agent... I was brought up in the UK and it is illegal to put anyone under the age of 18 years of age through one of these scanners because of child pornography laws. It is absolutely shocking to me that so many Americans just accept this so passively. I can't even go on an overnight school trip with my daughter's school without being fingerprinted and background checked for fear I'm a danger around kids, and yet it is okay for a TSA agent to grope my child and I have to stand there and say nothing, because it's at an airport????

 

The Hobson's Choice of the "porno scanner" or the "grope down" proves just how bad things have become. It is NEVER okay to touch someone's genitals or handle their breasts without their permission.

 

I do not believe for a single second that the scanner images are deleted. I believe they are kept and will inevitably fall into the wrong hands. It is bad enough adults have to endure this humiliation just to take a plane trip, but absolutely awful that our kids are subjected to it. Metal detectors, sure... Pat down if there's a problem, but the new style of patdown is nothing more than legalised sexual assault. It is VERY hard to try to tell your kids that no-one touches their private parts except their parents and a Dr, but it's okay for the government to grope them in airports.

 

As for that 3 year old screaming at the airport.. I nearly cried watching that. That child was extremely distressed and reacted as any young child would when being touched against her will. It's not easy to control a 3 year old's behavior and threatening to arrest both her and her mother showed how absolutely clueless the TSA was in how they handled the whole thing. They are an absolute disgrace. I travel internationally on a regular basis and no-where, NOWHERE, are security agents as offensive and rude as they are in the USA. It IS possible to have very tight security and to pat down passengers and do it in a dignified, professional manner, but here it seems we are treated like we are all criminals from the get go and are shouted at and ordered about accordingly.

 

I am dreading our next plane trip for fear my underwire bra will set off that scanner, which is embarrassing enough and I will get groped as well. I feel desperately sorry for people with artificial limbs, insulin pumps, waste removal bags, pacemakers, adult diapers etc etc... It is appalling to me that one of the most civilised countries on the planet is resorting to treating human beings like this when there are much more effective and discreet way to go about making flights secure.

 

As for my daughter.... She's under 12 and now the TSA has backed down on groping kids until they're teenagers, in the face of all the protests. The TSA BADLY needs a PR makeover because it's like watching the keystone cops at the moment making up the rules as they go along.

 

I can only hope and pry that common sense will return to our leaders and they will see that this is unsustainable. And I hope each and very person and parent will sue the government when they believe they have been violated by the TSA at the airports. Touching the genitals of children is a CRIME, and just because it happens in an airport does not lessen that fact.

 

Sorry to go off on such a rant, but this subject bothers me tremendously.

[NYteacher]

I work in a New York City public school where there is random scanning from time-to-time. They are searching for weapons but will also confiscate phones (not allowed in NYC schools). The girls will proudly announce how they smuggle their phones in their bras or their underwear since they can't be searched there.

 

If teenage girls figure this out, surely those with evil intentions can also figure out how to use children as well.

[srlafleur]

If teenage girls figure this out, surely those with evil intentions can also figure out how to use children as well.

 

And surely those with evil intentions are looking at all this focus on airports as the perfect opportunity to plan an unexpected attack of a totally different nature.

How much do our lives have to change before we admit that the terrorists have already won?

 

I have no problem with security scanning in general, not even the pat-downs, but it is blatantly obvious that the TSA agents have little to no training regarding their "people-skills". At the very least, these people should have some sort of sensitivity training and learn how to make the process less traumatic for people for whom this is a big deal. My mother would be mortified to be touched in that manner, and I cringe at the thought of my grandchildren being barked at & treated like criminals.

[6rugrats]

If she starts traveling at a young age and does a lot of traveling, how much cumulative radiation will she accumulate in her lifetime?

 

Yes I know- the scanners are totally safe. I believe that because my government has told me that they are safe and my government would never lie to me.

 

DON

I have no idea, but I've accepted the fact I don't have control over everything. We are exposed to radiation just by flying in a plane, yet I don't see posters concerned about that.

 

There's a simple solution to those that object to scanners and pat downs. Don't travel by plane.