Body scanners, More likely not to fly to cruise?

[Gonzo70]

Actually, they do at Midway in Chicago. Not sure what they call it, maybe frequent travelers or business travelers. I'm sure they appreciate not getting stuck behind the family with 2 kids in strollers, etc....

 

Yes, they call it "Expert Traveler" lane. My wife used it a few trips ago and got busted good by the screener! She was using a new passport for first time and the person looked at it and told her it was not valid. She freaked out and he kept her in limbo for a few moments and then informed her she forgot to sign the passport. Now I tease her every time we go to Midway that she is banned from the expert traveler lane.

[Giorgi-one]

I wish that they could have two queues at the airport; one for those who almost never fly and one for those who have flown often. let the people who know what they are doing get through security quickly by being prepared, and the people who take 10 minutes to get their shoes off and put everything on the belt can go to the other lines.

 

I have never really had this problem since there is usually a short line which gives people plenty of time to get their shoes off and out everything on the belt. Besides, what is the hurry? We usually get to the airport about 2-1/2 hours before our flight - not unusual to have major traffic problems around Philly airport. We are usually done checking our bags and going thru security in about 15 minutes. We then have a relaxing breakfast and read or snooze until we board the plane. I know that some people want to get to the airport 20 minutes before their flight and expect everyone to be waiting for them. Too Bad! Remember that all major airports suggest that you arrive 2 hours prior to domestic flights and 3 hours prior to international flights.

[dkjretired]

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

 

And your point is, there are legal exceptions to the 4th amendment depending on circumstances which are accepted by the courts. The airline searches are one of them since flying is not a right and other reasons...

[dkjretired]

First of all, I have had to pat down infants before. Before you go off on me, even in my little home town, drug runners have loaded their babies diapers with drugs to escape detection. If they will do that with drugs, what's to stop a terrorist from doing the same with some c-4? Remember those liquid explosive terrorists? Some of them had their wives and children with them. They were perfectly willing to sacrafice their families for their goal! As for patting down old people, you don't get the briefings I do. You don't know what you are talking about or you would never leave your house! There have been several instances of elderly people being taken advantage of by their travel companions and being caught trying to bring MAJOR dangerous things through checkpoints! I cannot and will not go into detail but, you have a computer. Use it. Look up the Russian widows, middle age and graying who blew up 2 Russian airliners a few years back. They hardly look like middle eastern young men but look how many people they killed!!! You armchair generals sit back and complain about what we do and don't give any concrete realistic solutions. You would be the first to point a finger if a plane fell out of the sky! BTW, I hold you in as much contempt as you seem to hold me. You only know what you see and make snap judgements on something you really know very little of. Thanks for your support!

 

I agree also. We have had people say "why now.", we simply do not know what an underlying reason for these searchs would be at this time. We have the possibility of attacks during the Holiday season or there could be intel behind these procedures. I suspect at this point though that the new machines are starting to go on line at more and more airports therefore causing problems.

[GeorgeL]

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

 

YES!

Our Constitution is the greatest document ever written by Man.

 

People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.

- Benjamin Franklin

 

[A] great Empire, like a great Cake, is most easily diminished at the Edges.

- Benjamin Franklin

[derf5585]

And your point is, there are legal exceptions to the 4th amendment depending on circumstances which are accepted by the courts. The airline searches are one of them since flying is not a right and other reasons...

 

As Christine O'Donnell famously said "Where in the Constitution does it say anything about flying?"

[dkjretired]

YES!

Our Constitution is the greatest document ever written by Man.

 

People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.

- Benjamin Franklin

 

[A] great Empire, like a great Cake, is most easily diminished at the Edges.

- Benjamin Franklin

 

And Ben Franklin didn't anticipate people flying airplanes into buildings...

[derf5585]

And Ben Franklin didn't anticipate people flying airplanes into buildings...

 

But Nostradamus did:D

[Giorgi-one]

And Ben Franklin didn't anticipate people flying airplanes into buildings...

 

Agreed. People tend to get a little carried away with the Constitution being infallable. There is almost no similarity to society today and the way it was 220 years ago when the Constitution was written. Our forefathers recognized this and allowed for an amedment process. I do not believe that our forefathers intended people to own Uzis. They were talking about muskets and I agree that everyone should be allowed to own one musket.

[dmwnc1959]

YES!

Our Constitution is the greatest document ever written by Man.

 

I think that would actually be the Magna Carta

[derf5585]

Agreed. People tend to get a little carried away with the Constitution being infallable. There is almost no similarity to society today and the way it was 220 years ago when the Constitution was written. Our forefathers recognized this and allowed for an amedment process. I do not believe that our forefathers intended people to own Uzis. They were talking about muskets and I agree that everyone should be allowed to own one musket.

 

Does anyone believe in a "living Constitution" anymore?

from

http://www.slate.com/id/2124891/

 

The strongest argument against the doctrine of "Living Constitution" comes not from its moderate use, but when the concept is seen as promoting activism. The term presumes the premise of “that which is written is insufficient in light of what has transpired since”. This more moderate concept is generally not the target of those who are against the "Living Constitution". The concept considered perverse by constructionalists is "making the law say what you think it should say, rather than submitting to what it does say".

from

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Living_Constitution

[2-4-cruisin]

First of all, I have had to pat down infants before. Before you go off on me, even in my little home town, drug runners have loaded their babies diapers with drugs to escape detection. If they will do that with drugs, what's to stop a terrorist from doing the same with some c-4? Remember those liquid explosive terrorists? Some of them had their wives and children with them. They were perfectly willing to sacrafice their families for their goal! As for patting down old people, you don't get the briefings I do. You don't know what you are talking about or you would never leave your house! There have been several instances of elderly people being taken advantage of by their travel companions and being caught trying to bring MAJOR dangerous things through checkpoints! I cannot and will not go into detail but, you have a computer. Use it. Look up the Russian widows, middle age and graying who blew up 2 Russian airliners a few years back. They hardly look like middle eastern young men but look how many people they killed!!! You armchair generals sit back and complain about what we do and don't give any concrete realistic solutions. You would be the first to point a finger if a plane fell out of the sky! BTW, I hold you in as much contempt as you seem to hold me. You only know what you see and make snap judgements on something you really know very little of. Thanks for your support!

 

I do offer my support to you and to others who must face the task of searching travelers. I am searched on each and every flight I take because I have two knee replacements. I won't give up flying. The parents of the girl in the video obviously failed to prepare the child - they should have told her what to expect and it wouldn't have been so horrible for her. My heart does go out to that child, but I would like to clock her parents upside the head. If everyone who so vehemently objects to search procedures would stop flying, our lines wouldn't be as long. Such a boycott wouldn't last long, though. Air travel is a necessary evil these days.

[derf5585]

Originally Posted by GeorgeL

YES!

Our Constitution is the greatest document ever written by Man.

 

I think that would actually be the Magna Carta

 

By man or woman?

 

Famous Documents

from

http://library.thinkquest.org/26451/contents/writtenword/famousdocuments.htm

[GeorgeL]

Agreed. People tend to get a little carried away with the Constitution being infallable. There is almost no similarity to society today and the way it was 220 years ago when the Constitution was written. Our forefathers recognized this and allowed for an amedment process. I do not believe that our forefathers intended people to own Uzis. They were talking about muskets and I agree that everyone should be allowed to own one musket.

 

Yes, and remarkably there haven't been that many amendments. Also, it takes much effort to actually add an amendment, which only serves to illustrate that the Constitution, as was written, is not only a very well written document but is also meant to survive and be relevant regardless of progression of time.

[dmwnc1959]

Famous Documents

from

http://library.thinkquest.org/26451/contents/writtenword/famousdocuments.htm

 

The Magna Carta written almost 800 years ago was the first, and has been recognised as the single most important document in history that led to the rule of constitutional law in the English speaking world, of which the US Constitution as well as many other documents have been inspired from.

[Smartcookie]

I had absolutely no problem with the pat downs until I heard this on the news last night.

 

http://www.wbtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=13534628

 

IMO, they've gone too far.

 

For those of you who say "Well she could be hiding something in that prosthetic breast", I can think of a few more places (feminine products anyone?), that a woman can hide something - will those items be removed for inspection as well?

[J & G]

Back to flying. As far as I am concerned, you cannot have enough security at airports. Once you step on that plane you are totally helpless. They can xray, pat me down and strip search me if they want. As long as they do it to everyone else. I know I am not a terrorist but I do not trust anyone else. Profiling is a great idea in a homogeneous society but will not work in America. Half of the people on airplanes look like foreigners and the terrorists are recruting Americans - even lilly white Americans. Everybody is a suspect and everybody needs to be checked. No need to check out pilots since they are driving the plane and can do anything they want anyhow. However, the rest of the flight crew are also suspects. When they stop the strict security measures at airports, I will stop flying.

 

I could not agree more! I think someone should start a movement to THANK TSA agents at the airports during the holiday season....not treat them like perverts! They are doing a pretty unpleasant job that they have been given, for whatever reason....we don't know the reason for the heightened security measures, but I feel certain that it was not initiated by TSA agents who wanted to grope a bunch of strangers. If it makes me safer then I want them to keep up the good work!

[dkjretired]

I had absolutely no problem with the pat downs until I heard this on the news last night.

 

http://www.wbtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=13534628

 

IMO, they've gone too far.

 

For those of you who say "Well she could be hiding something in that prosthetic breast", I can think of a few more places (feminine products anyone?), that a woman can hide something - will those items be removed for inspection as well?

 

I agree also and apparently the supervisors at the TSA agree. It was reported this morning that this incident was not within TSA rules and was a mistake...

[dkjretired]

But Nostradamus did:D

 

 

 

Then search him...

[estofon]

And your point is, there are legal exceptions to the 4th amendment depending on circumstances which are accepted by the courts. The airline searches are one of them since flying is not a right and other reasons...

Totally incorrect. If the government takes it upon itself to search each and every airplane passenger, withouth probable cause, then that process is, by definition, unreasonable and unconstitutional.

[momoftwinteens]

Totally incorrect. If the government takes it upon itself to search each and every airplane passenger, withouth probable cause, then that process is, by definition, unreasonable and unconstitutional.

Actually, you are the one who is incorrect. Every person who flies automatically waives their 4th Amendment rights the minute they put their luggage on the belt and walk through the metal detector and/or the scanners. That was brought before and approved by Congress when the TSA was first developed.

[dkjretired]

Totally incorrect. If the government takes it upon itself to search each and every airplane passenger, withouth probable cause, then that process is, by definition, unreasonable and unconstitutional.

 

No, you are incorrect, there are exceptions to the 4th amendment and this is one of them. By your reasoning, every person in line to get on a plane would have to be searched only on probable cause. That is obviously not the case and the courts support the governments right to search those entering a plane.

[Despegue]

One thing to be lacking with a lot of Security screeners is COMMON SENSE... This is mainly because of a lack of training, lack of intellectual ability to assess a situation correctly and a draconian stick-to-the-procedure mentality.

 

This is not only my view, but the view of 99% of my collegues too...

[momoftwinteens]

One thing to be lacking with a lot of Security screeners is COMMON SENSE... This is mainly because of a lack of training, lack of intellectual ability to assess a situation correctly and a draconian stick-to-the-procedure mentality.

 

This is not only my view, but the view of 99% of my collegues too...

Until you and your collegues have walked in my shoes, you have no right to judge me.

[NnJ2010]

I agree also and apparently the supervisors at the TSA agree. It was reported this morning that this incident was not within TSA rules and was a mistake...

Yeah of course they're saying that now....it got horrified reactions and publicity. And hopefully a lawsuit. The new guidelines include more evasive pat downs - that's your 'penance' for choosing to not go through the full body scanner. Funny that the old pat downs were 'so successful' in keeping us safe but now they aren't enough. And I've been patted down with the old procedure so many times I couldn't even count. All over the world. No big deal. The new one is a big deal as they're groping and cupping and touching breasts and genitals. And the scanners are so 'safe' that pilots are now exempted from the procedure after many pilots got upset over it and raised a ruckus. We were told the pictures weren't stored that they wouldn't be shared, we know that's false too. So no, I don't trust the b.s. they keep spewing especially since more and more lies keep coming about.