royal loose thousands of dollars on explorer ots

[new seekers]

Dear friends:

 

Refunding the entire cruise package if your flight is cancelled and you miss the ship has nothing to do with RCCL wanting to be nice.

 

There are many threads on this subject, but there is something called the European Package Travel Directive.

 

If you purchase the air and cruise packaged by a cruise line (whether you purchase it from the cruise line or from a travel agency) the cruise line becomes the "organizer" of the package for legal purposes. If the air is cancelled and you miss the ship, the "organizer" is responsible for giving you a full refund.

 

If it had been possible to get to the next port and the passenger accepted this, then the passenger would be entitled to a "proportional" refund (i.e. the part of the cruise the passenger missed). And it would be the cruise line who would have to pay to get to the next port.

 

These concepts usually sound alien to the Americans, because their system is totally different. However, EU laws provide for a full refund in this case, and there is nothing to be surprised or shocked about.

 

Kind regards,

 

Gunther and Uta

see you live in spain. myself i prefer Israel

[Wilda]

 

And I need to add a comment about the MIL. We loved ours, God rest Her Soul. I wanted her on every cruise we went on I merely placed my beer on her chest, next to her heart to keep it cold!

 

Now that's funny!

[Moeve]

Gunther you beat me to it however maybe we should point out that the refund ONLY applies to passengers who not only booked their cruises throught RCCL but also their flights and even in the US that is often far more expensive than going cruise only and getting your own flight.

[CruisinGerman]

I think I made that clear when I mentioned an air/sea package organized by the cruise line and booked either directly with the cruise line or through a travel agency.

 

Where insurance becomes more important is if you booked cruise only and booked your flight someplace else.

 

It would be interesting to hear from a UK cruiser who booked cruise only and flights someplace else. Did RCCL succumb to the Christmas spirit and at least give a future credit for the value of the missed cruise? That is, it would be interesting to hear how RCCL behaved in a situation in which it was not legally required to do anything, and not just in a situation in which the law imposes giving a refund.

 

Kind regards,

 

Gunther and Uta

[subtchr]

I apologize if I missed this answer, but did the OP ever say whether his relatives were actually IN NY/NJ when the ship sailed? He mentions his disappointment that RC did not wait for the late passengers, but if they weren't even in the country, did he really expect them to wait DAYS??

[buckanear]

Holding a ship is much more complicated than people think. There are ports that are less flexible about a ship staying in a berth. Secondly, it costs a lot of money just to have a ship sit in port. Port fees alone can rack up into the thousands for an hour. The pilot, the union (making time and a half for the overtime) and everyone else who has to stay at the terminal until the ship leaves all have to be paid out. Plus having water bunkered in and what do you think they do with the sewage created? They can't dump it in port. They have to pay companies a lot of money to come and pump it out. Plus missed revenue.

[gbcruise]

RCI does take into account European/English consumer protection laws.

The basis for pricing is tied to the USD. When it rises in the US, it impacts fares in the European markets, as well as the world wide markets.

 

A good example is the number of ships RCI places in the Med every summer.

 

And I need to add a comment about the MIL. We loved ours, God rest Her Soul. I wanted her on every cruise we went on I merely placed my beer on her chest, next to her heart to keep it cold!

 

Spitting coffee on the screen. This comment alone was worth reading this thread. Guess I cannot ever take my MIL along now to hold my beer, it would get hot and explode instantly when placing by her heart.

It is interesting to learn about how the laws differ. People seem to look at things just one sided without understanding all reasoning. When ships are docked the port authority has control and for how long they are docked. RCI is often put in a impossible spot when these situations occur and passengers onboard want to get their vacation started and passengers delayed want the ship held. You cannot, and will never please everyone.

[MikeNJ1109]

Spitting coffee on the screen. This comment alone was worth reading this thread. Guess I cannot ever take my MIL along now to hold my beer, it would get hot and explode instantly when placing by her heart.

It is interesting to learn about how the laws differ. People seem to look at things just one sided without understanding all reasoning. When ships are docked the port authority has control and for how long they are docked. RCI is often put in a impossible spot when these situations occur and passengers onboard want to get their vacation started and passengers delayed want the ship held. You cannot, and will never please everyone.

 

Yup, a definite no win situation ... I sympathize with the dog, but can also see the point of view of the fire hydrant as well.

 

Michale

[new seekers]

I think I made that clear when I mentioned an air/sea package organized by the cruise line and booked either directly with the cruise line or through a travel agency.

 

Where insurance becomes more important is if you booked cruise only and booked your flight someplace else.

 

It would be interesting to hear from a UK cruiser who booked cruise only and flights someplace else. Did RCCL succumb to the Christmas spirit and at least give a future credit for the value of the missed cruise? That is, it would be interesting to hear how RCCL behaved in a situation in which it was not legally required to do anything, and not just in a situation in which the law imposes giving a refund.

 

Kind regards,

 

Gunther and Uta

 

kind regards life is too short.

[negc]

Well i feel sorry for the ones that missed the holiday, my mother in law was one. MY POINT is with that many they should hold the ship, and whats wrong with your attitude, sounds like you have a chip on your shoulder gunther.

 

How long would they have had to hold the ship? Did your mother in law miss the ship by an hour, two hours, three or more? What amount of time do you think would be reasonable and would be fair to those passengers who were onboard in time for the scheduled sailing time? How long could they delay sailing before it seriously affected their ability to maintain their scheduled itinerary? What about tidal conditions and weather? A lot of factors go into making a decision whether or not to delay sailing and apparently it was not feasible to hold the ship until those delayed passengers would arrive at the pier. Certainly the number of missing passengers would be one of those factors, but perhaps not the overriding one. Without knowing all the facts it is unfair to criticize RCI for its decision.

[Puffinater]

Learned a few new things from this thread. Thanks to CruisinGerman and the others for posting such good info.

[Mark_K]

Royal caribbean lost hundreds of thousands of dollars as 700 UK passengers missed the 12.19.10 sailing out of new york.This was due to the heavy snowfall in the uk on the 18th of december.Food was already on board which had to be thrown away.people rang rci to say they would be late but royal would not hold the ship a few hours,for a few people .It turned out to be 700.It was made worse being a 2 week xmas and new year cruise to the caribbean,where they need to fill the ship.it ended up 75% full and rci had to give full refunds to uk passengers.

I doubt they lost any more than the deductible for the insurance they likely have for such occurrances.

[jonbgd]

It is a rci promise that if we make that long trip and cant get there they will look after us they cant afford to loose the uk market.(fact) And from what i see the british spend far more at the bars .(fact)

Here in the US of A if we fly to England for a cruise and miss it we dont get reimbursed

The british may spend more in the bars cause they save all that money from not tipping

[Sugar*Magnolia]

This is a weird thread and I think I only read page 1, lol.

 

First, there were 500-someodd passengers that initially didnt board. (Fact)

 

We sailed at the exact time we were supposed to...(Fact) The Captain did NOT hold the ship a few hours, sorry Boulder - I know we were on the same cruise, but Explorer set sail on time...unless I was that martini-happy along with the rest of my gang! lololol they did hold off muster until the next day but that didnt make us sail late..

 

Approximately (geez now I forgot the number so dont hold me to it for an exact) but 100+ got on board in Barbados and then another 50+ in St thomas...and we were told that by an officer-friend. all in all, it only ended up to be a little over 200 pax that were able to board..

[tonythewop]

I doubt they lost any more than the deductible for the insurance they likely have for such occurrances.

 

I think they lost quite a lot more than that.

They lost the on-board spending such as drinks, casino, pictures, excursions,drinks and more drinks.

If we can guess an average of $50 per person per day ( some drink more some less :D ) RCCL lost $350,000 and their staff lost over $68,000 in tips.:eek:

[koterry]

Royal caribbean lost hundreds of thousands of dollars as 700 UK passengers missed the 12.19.10 sailing out of new york.This was due to the heavy snowfall in the uk on the 18th of december.Food was already on board which had to be thrown away.people rang rci to say they would be late but royal would not hold the ship a few hours,for a few people .It turned out to be 700.It was made worse being a 2 week xmas and new year cruise to the caribbean,where they need to fill the ship.it ended up 75% full and rci had to give full refunds to uk passengers.

Thats life and mother nature. Not much you can do.

[koterry]

Well i feel sorry for the ones that missed the holiday, my mother in law was one. MY POINT is with that many they should hold the ship, and whats wrong with your attitude, sounds like you have a chip on your shoulder gunther.

Seems as if most of his posts have a grudge mentality. I usually just move on right past Gunthers posts and take them with the smallest grain of salt.

[tonythewop]

This is a weird thread and I think I only read page 1, lol.

 

First, there were 500-someodd passengers that initially didnt board. (Fact)

 

We sailed at the exact time we were supposed to...(Fact) The Captain did NOT hold the ship a few hours, sorry Boulder - I know we were on the same cruise, but Explorer set sail on time...unless I was that martini-happy along with the rest of my gang! lololol they did hold off muster until the next day but that didnt make us sail late..

 

Approximately (geez now I forgot the number so dont hold me to it for an exact) but 100+ got on board in Barbados and then another 50+ in St thomas...and we were told that by an officer-friend. all in all, it only ended up to be a little over 200 pax that were able to board..

 

Sorry to correct you ( maybe it was the martini's :D ), but the ship left at approximately 5:30ish ( I know , I was on deck freezing my a** off waiting to go under the Verrazano bridge ) when we were scheduled to leave at 4:00 p.m. Not only that, the captain made an announcement indicating we were leaving late as we were still waiting for many guests.

 

As to the number of guests who made it on at other islands, according to the captain and the hotel director at the Q&A that was held in the Palace Theatre, 550 missed the ship and only 55 met up with us in total.

[The Big Booper]

Points -

 

Gunther is an attorney and is able to explain legal issues in a concise and factual matter. So don't blame the messenger for the bad news.

 

People on our roll call who couldn't get out of Heathrow said there were NO flights available for days after we sailed, so nobody was showing up at JFK or EWR at 5 PM. Lots of them booked alternative vacations to Spain and such once it became apparent there was no way to get across the pond.

 

The Explorer clears the VZ bridge literally by a few yards and I have been told that if they wait too long to leave the tides rise and clearance becomes an issue. It blasts along at a high rate of speed leaving the harbor so that the ship settles into the water and increases the clearance.

 

The ship never seemed crowded and no longish waits for elevators. The missing 500 were certainly apparent.

[uksimonusa]

It is a rci promise that if we make that long trip and cant get there they will look after us they cant afford to loose the uk market.(fact) And from what i see the british spend far more at the bars .(fact)

 

I said 400 to start with,then cruisingerman said it was 900 so i met it have way, its a lot who wont travel to the usa and spend money there again.(fact) its been on the news here .(bbc)

 

It's not an RCI promise, it's an EU law, and it only applies of the cruise and flight are bought as a package. If the Brits spend so much onboard in the bars, why did RCI have to drop the prices on Indy to get the high spending brits to spend??

[klingoncruiser]

I kind of doubt RCI lost much money.

[CruisinGerman]

Thanks for the interesting comment about the VZ Bridge. I never thought of that, but did find it strange when the November 28 cruise seemed to zoom right under the bridge so quickly. Now I know why.

 

I am sorry to see that some people feel that when I try to explain how our laws work here in the EU vs. your system across the pond, as well as other issues such as how and why we do not tip practically anyone here in Spain, you find I hold a grudge.

 

Anyway, you can't please everyone, obviously, so happy cruising to all.

 

Kind regards,

 

Gunther and Uta

[jonbgd]

If the Brits spend so much onboard in the bars, why did RCI have to drop the prices on Indy to get the high spending brits to spend??

Hey no tipping and cheaper drinks........that might be enough savings to pay for my airfare:rolleyes:

[HoopsandYoYo]

Just back from our Jan 2 - 16 cruise to the Caribbean on the Explorer. On a couple of our stops the captain extended our stay in port by an hour which was very nice.

 

I agree that there are considerations regarding when a ship sails. We arrived a day early for our cruise for extra insurance and peace of mind.

H.

[Rancher Dave]

Technically, they don't need to purchase insurance for these scenarios. Insurance is much more important for Europeans for medical coverage in the U.S., and for cancellation or interruption when the pieces of the trip are purchased from different sources.

 

Kind regards,

 

Gunther and Uta

 

Yep, it is a bit more expensive here to secure the medical care than back home, regardless of where home may be.

 

Different parts of the world do definitely treat travel very differently.