Don't get sick on carnival

[apollobeach]

Recently got sick on The Miracle; was put ashore in St. Lucia, with no assistance whatsoever from Carnival(thank goodness for Travel Guard Travel Insurance!!!!).....the letter to Carnival is below......

 

Dear Mr. Cahill:

 

 

We planned for and took a cruise beginning on January 14, 2011 that was interrupted due to my being landed in St. Lucia for medical reasons (according to The Miracle medical personnel).

 

 

While on The Miracle I had fainted, and fainted once more on the Monday of the cruise. Being concerned, we went to the Medical Facility on board, and I was sent to the hospital in St. Maarten since the ship's physician was ashore.

 

 

The hospital did testing and blood work, and after several hours found me fit to sail and I returned to The Miracle. According to the records of the medical personnel on The Miracle, I did not see a cardiologist in St. Maarten. In fact, the ER physician in St. Maarten did consult with a Cardiologist before clearing me to return to the ship.

 

 

When I returned to The Miracle I was directed to see the ship's physician, and he placed me on various IV's with medicine, so I was told, to slow my heart rate down. The doctor told me I was in Atrial Fibrillation (A-Fib), and my heart rate was beating too rapidly.

 

 

I informed Dr. Debeljacki, the ship's physician, that I had been in A-Fib since February 2010, and was being treated for same by my cardiologist. He told me that he was going to lower my heart rate through the use of IV and medicine added to the IV, and that would help. He also told me he was going to provide me with oral medication to help keep my heart rate down. I was never provided this medication.

 

 

After several hours Dr. Debeljacki released me from the facility, and I was free to move about the ship. When we returned to our cabin, a short time later Jessica, the ship's nurse contacted us and came to our cabin to fill out paperwork to have me landed in St. Lucia, “just in case” (her words). At no time did Jessica indicate there was any possibility that I would be landed anywhere; rather, she said the paperwork was just a precaution. Unbeknown to us, the ship's physician, along with Jessica and

Johanna, the other ship's nurse, were indeed in touch with headquarters in Miami and were indeed planning to land me to a hospital in St. Lucia. I was directly told by both

Mr. Gerald Cahill

Page two

 

 

the physician and the nurses (on Tuesday) that Carnival wanted to “have no liability”

should something happen to me on the rest of the cruise.

 

 

Later Monday evening we received a call from Guest Services demanding we surrender our Passports, since we were being landed in St. Lucia. The call from me to Jessica on Tuesday morning, and her report of it, is not only erroneous but slanderous. The only truth to her statement is that, a) I did contact her; and b) I did tell her we would not surrender our Passports. That is all that was said by me. At no time was our use of an attorney ever mentioned, and I resent the fact that your employee has to, in all candor, lie to cover her actions.

 

 

Tuesday morning came and I went back to the ship's infirmary; was placed on an IV; then, was told I would be landed in St. Lucia. I was, and absolutely no assistance was provided to either my Partner nor myself by Carnival. My Partner, Mr. Richard Sours was contacted by Gabriele Cosis Tuesday afternoon; he conveyed to me that all he received from her was excuses as to the sequence of events.

 

 

We were told, both individually and together from the ship's infirmary personnel that an air-evac had been planned to take me back to The United States. In fact, the insurance company has told me, while that was discussed, at no time was it authorized. Again, Mr. Sours and myself were lied to, and we were landed in St. Lucia to Tapion Hospital, with no assistance from Carnival or your Port Agent. In fact, ten minutes before The Miracle sailed we heard from your Port Agent, whose only concern was that we had removed all our belongings from the vessel. He showed up at the hospital at eight that evening, again offering no assistance whatsoever.

 

 

So, here we are, landed by Carnival in St. Lucia for no good reason; in addition, no cell phone or internet service, and no assistance whatsoever from Carnival.

 

 

Mr. Sours worked tirelessly with the administration at Tapion Hospital, our travel insurance, and I even procured flight information myself in order to get us back to The United States. I was landed in St. Lucia, and Carnival removed themselves from any liability. The negligence by Carnival continued.

 

 

I would have been released from the hospital on Wednesday; however, the airport was an hour-and-a-half away from the hospital, so arraignments were made to fly me back on Thursday, January 20, 2011.

 

 

I flew back into Tampa on January 20, 2011. From the hospital, the drive to the airport (over some questionable roads); air flight time; and layovers consumed the better part of fifteen hours. At no time during the journey home was I in close proximity to any immediate medical facility. I flew home without incident.

 

 

Mr. Gerald Cahill

Page three

 

 

On Friday January 21, 2011 I met with my Cardiologist, who expressed surprise that I was landed at all. On Monday January 24, 2011 I met with another cardiac specialist, who also expressed their opinion that I should not have been landed. Both Cardiologists, after reviewing the records provided to them by Tapion Hospital (I could not provide them copies of the results from St. Maarten, since those records were not returned to us by The Miracle medical personnel) were surprised I was hospitalized at all. They both concluded that what occurred was an anomaly, not any emergency whatsoever, and could have been treated with some rest, and no exertion.

 

 

I note that I have not been, nor am I being recommended for, hospitalization by my Cardiologist. I am on medication to slow my heart-rate due to the A-Fib, that is all.

 

 

Now, some observations on our part. Jessica, the ship's nurse, told us that the better hospital was in St. Maarten, and the hospitals in St. Lucia and St. Kitts “are really not that good” (her words). Imagine how we felt that, after that statement, when we were landed in St. Lucia.

 

 

It is interesting that Carnival made a decision to land me in St. Lucia without so much as consulting a Cardiologist. Further, we were offered no ongoing assistance whatsoever from Carnival. Carnival however ensured that it had no further “liability” for me or my Partner.

 

 

I have discussed this incident at length with my Cardiologist, whom is a leader in her field; she saw no reason for me being landed. The A-Fib continues and I was, and am, fine. This A-Fib was present on both The Miracle cruise we took in March 2010 and The Glory cruise we took in September 2010. The anomaly occurred, and Carnival did all in their power to not have any “liability” for me; in fact, there would not have been any more problems had I rested on board and not exerted myself, according to my Cardiologist.

 

 

As both a stockholder of Carnival Corporation, and a frequent traveler on Carnival ships (with four upcoming cruises on the books) I must wonder that, in their zeal to remove any “liability” on the part of Carnival, and landing me in a foreign country without any support from Carnival, was the best choice for both myself and my Partner. I can say with certainty that the actions taken by your medical personnel caused considerable consternation and stress to both of us, and I am told that it was not really necessary at all. To be very frank, the folks, including the Emergency Physician as well as the Cardiologist at Tapion Hospital expressed some surprise I was even there at all. It was indicated to me that I could have stayed on the ship, where there were medical facilities, and rested, rather than take the stressful trip by taxi across St. Lucia and then flying back home.

 

 

 

 

Mr. Gerald Cahill

Page four

 

 

I was stabilized both on The Miracle and continued to be stabilized at Tapion Hospital. If I was able to be stabilized on The Miracle, what was the reason to land me in a foreign country in the first place? If I was so “critical” that I needed to be landed in St. Lucia, why was I released from The Miracle medical facility and allowed to move about the ship Monday evening and Tuesday morning?

 

 

I have posted the events surrounding this incident regarding this on two cruise web-site boards. It should be told that, in our opinion Carnival Cruise Line will do their utmost to release themselves from any liability concerning a patient, regardless of the stress (and potential harm or danger) that may cause the patient.

 

 

At this juncture, since the events could have been avoided and I could have remained on the vessel, I would ask that we be refunded the cost of the cruise, which is, including port taxes, $2088.02.

 

 

I would reason, at the very least, there should be a refund of the cruise as well as a formal apology from Carnival Cruise Lines as to the mishandling of this incident, which should have never happened in the first place. This is causing us doubt as to whether we wish to take any future Carnival cruises, even the ones we now have reserved.

 

 

Sincerely,

 

 

The response from Carnival? The basically told me to go pound sand........not one of the issues was addressed........

 

The moral of the story - DON'T get sick on a Carnival ship - and, be sure to have good travel insurance.

 

John/Rick

:p

[Crusin6]

your letter is a little to long for me to read right now...but you are right...get good travel insurance

 

as I said..i can't read the entire letter.....but maybe you have a legal issue here...

 

and for the record...I do not believe in friviolous lawsuits...or making mountains out of molehills

[AWCHIEF]

As stated not easy to read. Your side of story certainly sounds bad. It would be interesting to hear the rest of the story from another point of view.

[madgally]

Most health insurance will pay for overseas costs if they are reasonable. The costs for the Medical Center on the Carnival Ships are about what the Insurance negiotiated rates are anyways. I had wonderful care on two different Carnival ships and I can't say enough good things about their Medical center. I'm sorry your experience was not good, your letter was way too long for me to read. I wouldn't be sure they even read it themselves in full.

[GTO-Girl]

Not to play "devil's advocate" here, but any kind of heart condition certainly needs to be taken seriously, so I'm sure they were not comfortable keeping your aboard. With their limited facilities I'm sure they felt the best place for you was in a hospital.

 

I'm very sorry this happened to you, but if things had gone south and you had a heart attack and died would your partner now be threatening to sue because they didn't get you to a hospital??

 

I would think it's a very fine line to try and decide who needs more advance care and who doesn't.

 

Not trying to be mean......just wondering......:o

[nlt46]

I'm certainly sorry to hear that this happened to you. I know that it had to be scary and unpleasant. I don't know what any other cruise line would have done. I'm thinking good insurance is a must when one travels.

 

Nancy

[texast518]

Did you DECLARE your condition with doctor documentation when you booked the cruise?

[victoryred]

Of course they did not want to keep you.....they don't have the equipment or the knowledge to take care of you......heck they were not even knowledgable on how to use an x ray machine on my visit:D

[capndinghy]

I wonder if your family would be suing Carnival had you died on board their Ship after they were made aware of your Heart Condition.

 

Sorry it happened. The hazards of growing old.

[slybear]

I still think its better to be safe then sorry, as you stated you passed out 2X on the ship. If you had died would the trip ins pay? I dont think so. Would your partner be suing Carnival,,,maybe. At least you had travel insurance-that is what its for. Thankfully you are still alive and able to tell your story.

[klmorg]

Not to play "devil's advocate" here, but any kind of heart condition certainly needs to be taken seriously, so I'm sure they were not comfortable keeping your aboard. With their limited facilities I'm sure they felt the best place for you was in a hospital.

 

I'm very sorry this happened to you, but if things had gone south and you had a heart attack and died would your partner now be threatening to sue because they didn't get you to a hospital??

 

I would think it's a very fine line to try and decide who needs more advance care and who doesn't.

 

Not trying to be mean......just wondering......:o

 

I tend to agree...

 

I'm also sorry the OP had to experience this, but didn't read thru that lengthy letter either. We had a bit of similar experience with the infirmary & having to debark midway thru our cruise in Grand Cayman for medical attention; however, my husband had an actual heart attack on board. So there was no option but to get him to a hospital immediately. The ship doctor/infirmary staff's actions truly saved his life, and the crew/staff/everyone did a great job helping us thru this painful process in our case. We too, were EXTREMELY thankful that we had purchased travel insurance... but that's another thread. :)

 

Anyway... the Carnival website explains the role of the infirmary, doctors & such. They really are there for non-emergencies & can provide some emergency care, but if they determine more comprehensive care is needed ashore, they will do that. These are just a couple excerpts:

 

"The Medical Center is equipped to treat minor non-emergency matters...."

 

"Shipboard medical facilities are set up to provide reasonable emergency medical care for guests and crew. In cases of extreme emergency where more comprehensive facilities are required, patients are referred to shoreside facilities."

[5waldos]

My mother was put off off Cunard in Thailand and died there. If you get sick on board a ship they will put you off in the next port. Not just Carnival but all ships.

[norcal2]

The problem for you is that you fainted twice and had the issue with heart rate. I don't know that I would decide to take a chance and not get you treated immediately in a hospital based on how they read your heart rate and knowing you had 2 episodes of fainting. I am so sorry you had a vacation interrupted by such a terrible experience. You have sailed on other cruises so I wonder this: Have you ever had 2 episodes of fainting with the heart rate on any of those cruises and gone to see the ship's doctor? If so how did they handle it? In other words was this even common for you on any cruise? If you do faint all the time on cruises with that heart rate do you inform them before the cruise and what is Carnival's answer to your information assuming you told them? Since this is ongoing for you, did you have your own doctor's medicine with you and if so is there a reason why it was not managing your heart rate?

 

If it has never happened to you before on a cruise (fainting twice and having a high heart rate and seeing the medical staff) then there is not much to judge as right or wrong in your sad story. I am just glad you got home safe and sound and are being treated.

[victoryred]

I still think its better to be safe then sorry, as you stated you passed out 2X on the ship. If you had died would the trip ins pay? I dont think so. Would your partner be suing Carnival,,,maybe. At least you had travel insurance-that is what its for. Thankfully you are still alive and able to tell your story.

 

If you get the coverage they will pay to have your body shipped back..

[pe4all]

Better safe than sorry. We were also "landed" in Belize for 3 days on Dream in December. While I wasn't happy about it, I did agree with Carnival's view that there was no medical facility in range for the next 2 days, and there was the possibility dd would need emergency surgery. (appendix) It also ended up as "nothing" but an infection that mimicked appendicitis. I was so relieved, I cannot tell you. Travelguard will hopefully pick up most, if not all our expenses ($3500 - was originally $5,000, but the hospital just credited our credit card $1500 because surgery was not needed - seems you have to pay in advance in Belize) Travelguard will re-imburse you 150% for the days of the cruise you missed - you really didn't say how many that was. They will also pay your airfare back to the U.S., hotel if you needed one, food, etc. The medical response team in Miami was fantastic for us, the port agent in Belize was good. If your condition turned into something "worse" you may have died (dh has the same condition and has been on beta blockers for over 30 years) or you would be screaming that CCL "poo-poo'd" your medical condition, and you suffered serious consequences from it. This is a no-win situation for Carnival. Sorry you felt your cruise was ruined -( I literally kissed the ground when I landed in Miami from Belize) but the ship's infirmaries are NOT set up to handle serious cardiac conditions- and who can predict the future when it comes to cardiac problems? BTW - "consulting" with a cardiologist is not the same as being seen by one. Having your Dr. review your medical records after the event isn't the same as being the doctor on record at the time of the event. You said you fainted not just once, but twice - and also your heartrate had to be stabilized both on and off the Miracle. Truthfully, I wouldn't take the chance of having you on the ship either - something was definitely wrong. Put in your charges to Travelguard, and be thankful you have a "minor" condition that can (usually) be controlled by medication.

[suzinva]

Here's my thoughts, for what they're worth. First, Carnival does not know you, nor do they know your medical history, aside from what you disclosed. From their standpoint, I'm not sure their decision was based so much upon liability as it was about what was best for your health, in their opinion, given the current circumstances. What if you were wrong about what was going on and you did have a major heart attack while at sea? I'm sure the medical staff did what they felt was in your best interest, whether you choose to see from a different perspective or not. They are not a full-service hospital, you could very easily have died. And, as someone pointed out, then they could be held liable for that.

 

Now, from a customer service and simply humanitarian standpoint, leaving you in a port without any support was pretty callous. However, I'm sure they assumed the hospital and your travel insurance would help in getting you home. Which, of course, did happen. Their response of telling you to "pound sand?" I wonder if that's just a matter of perception, given they told you what you didn't want to hear? You posted an incredibly long and detailed letter to them but didn't post their response to you, just your interpretation.

 

I'm not saying you are wrong with regard to your feelings, I'm sure I would be pretty upset as well. But, as you pointed out, you do have travel insurance. I'm sure that must cover at least some portion of your cruise costs. As for the apology, well, I'm not entirely sure you're entitled to an apology. They did what was right, from their standpoint. You disagree, which you're entitled to, of course. If someone was rude or gave you bad information, then maybe. But, I think they're probably right to stand by their decision.

 

I wish you well in getting what you want. But, I wouldn't hold my breath as I think they acted out of caution, maybe an over-abundance of caution, but caution nonetheless.

[plywood12]

I have to agree with many of the other writers. The medical staff on board had to act on the information they had available to them. Atrial fibrillation and fainting can be very serious. You provided them with none of your own physician's statements so the doctor had to rely on his knowledge of the situation and took what I believe is the correct action. A death would certainly been much more traumatic for your partner than what he went through. Carnival acted responsibly with the limited information they had. It is not up to them to them to see to your medical care or insurance.

[bingomamma19]

No cruise ship is a floating hospital. They are there for immediate handling of medical situations. You fainted 2x and do have an underlying condition. Carnival does not have the staff and equipment to handle ongoing serious issues. They did what was prudent. If you had only fainted 1x and had no underlying condition, it would have been different.

 

You cant expect Carnival (or any vacation provider) to handle ongoing serious health concerns that can turn on a dime. They got you to a hospital for your safety as well as their liability concerns.

 

I just cant believe you think they handled this unreasonably. You have a heart condition (whether you think it is serious or not). You had travel insurance and you had 2 incidents on board. No question about it, Carnival handled correctly.

[klmorg]

Better safe than sorry. We were also "landed" in Belize for 3 days on Dream in December. While I wasn't happy about it, I did agree with Carnival's view that there was no medical facility in range for the next 2 days, and there was the possibility dd would need emergency surgery. (appendix) It also ended up as "nothing" but an infection that mimicked appendicitis. I was so relieved, I cannot tell you. Travelguard will hopefully pick up most, if not all our expenses ($3500 - was originally $5,000, but the hospital just credited our credit card $1500 because surgery was not needed - seems you have to pay in advance in Belize) Travelguard will re-imburse you 150% for the days of the cruise you missed - you really didn't say how many that was. They will also pay your airfare back to the U.S., hotel if you needed one, food, etc. The medical response team in Miami was fantastic for us, the port agent in Belize was good. If your condition turned into something "worse" you may have died (dh has the same condition and has been on beta blockers for over 30 years) or you would be screaming that CCL "poo-poo'd" your medical condition, and you suffered serious consequences from it. This is a no-win situation for Carnival. Sorry you felt your cruise was ruined -( I literally kissed the ground when I landed in Miami from Belize) but the ship's infirmaries are NOT set up to handle serious cardiac conditions- and who can predict the future when it comes to cardiac problems? BTW - "consulting" with a cardiologist is not the same as being seen by one. Having your Dr. review your medical records after the event isn't the same as being the doctor on record at the time of the event. You said you fainted not just once, but twice - and also your heartrate had to be stabilized both on and off the Miracle. Truthfully, I wouldn't take the chance of having you on the ship either - something was definitely wrong. Put in your charges to Travelguard, and be thankful you have a "minor" condition that can (usually) be controlled by medication.

 

I am with you on all that. We should meet over cocktails and share our "being put off the ship in a foreign country for medical attention" experiences. Ours had a great outcome as well. And I think if I weren't so delerious when we landed by air ambulance in Miami, I would have been kissing that ground too. Of course Belize is a tad different than Grand Cayman. :eek: OK, back to our regularly scheduled programming... :)

[golfadj]

One point I do not understand. Took the same cruise last week and we went to St Lucia first and than two days later to St Martin.

 

Are you sure you have your facts straight?

[jmps]

I won't comment on whether or not you should have been "put off." But I for sure understand your experience of a incident report being fabricated. I was on an RCI cruise and cut my foot on some glass in the cabin carpet. This was our first night onboard and we found out second hand that a glass had been broken in the entryway the last night of the previous cruise.

 

The "safety officer" interviewed me and what he reported had no relation to the actual conversation. It was all about avoiding blame. They said I said I could have gotten the glass on shore when I told them I stepped on it in the middle of the night. I wasn't looking to sue or anything just have the medical staff remove the glass.

 

From this experience I learned that cruise lines aren't very honest in this area. It isn't just Carnival. Perhaps this is in response to dishonest passengers but it sure affects any honest passenger. For this reason, I do recommend travel insurance because you have to assume the worst.

[victoryred]

I won't comment on whether or not you should have been "put off." But I for sure understand your experience of a incident report being fabricated. I was on an RCI cruise and cut my foot on some glass in the cabin carpet. This was our first night onboard and we found out second hand that a glass had been broken in the entryway the last night of the previous cruise.

 

The "safety officer" interviewed me and what he reported had no relation to the actual conversation. It was all about avoiding blame. They said I said I could have gotten the glass on shore when I told them I stepped on it in the middle of the night. I wasn't looking to sue or anything just have the medical staff remove the glass.

 

From this experience I learned that cruise lines aren't very honest in this area. It isn't just Carnival. Perhaps this is in response to dishonest passengers but it sure affects any honest passenger. For this reason, I do recommend travel insurance because you have to assume the worst.

 

LOL! My little accident on the Spirit I had to be interviewed by security......because it was Carnivals negligence. He asked me where it happened, what type of shoes I was wearing, if I was married and where I was born :confused: *****:confused: We still laugh about the last 2 questions:D

[gizfish]

Kudos for the medical staff for doing the right thing and for you being smart and getting that travel insurance. The medical staff does not know you, your history or your doc. Did you let Carnival know prior to the trip that you were being treated for a chronic condition? Did you have some sort of note or record from your own cardiologist stating that at this point in time A-fib is "normal" for you?

 

That being said, A-fib or any cardiac condition that causes one to faint needs medical treatment. Fainting is not "normal," especially twice.

 

The medical staff on board acted completely appropiately in seeing that you had a condition that needed medical treatment which the ship is not able to treat more than on an emergency basis.

 

Sorry it resulted in your cruise being shortened. You should probably carry a copy of your current EKG with you and a note discussing your condition on all future travel. (Although I wouldn't be surprised if even had you had such documentation, due to the obvious worsening of your symptoms, they still had you seek medical care off-ship.)

[FantasyLineAddict]

I read the whole letter, it was well written. So sorry you went through that. I think you were treated poorly by Carnival's staff, but I would agree that you should have been landed. Seems if they'd just been kind and followed through with accurate information, you wouldn't have needed to write this letter. I hope your condition improves!

[TxJole]

Sorry I have to side with Carnival on this one.