Booking With US Sites & US TA's

[Aus Traveller]

My understanding is that if you pay by credit card and the service is not provided then the CC company is required to re-imburse you.

That is an interesting point. :)

[Aussie Gal]

That is particularly true with Amex and which type of Amex card you have. I have the Green card and I know that they will refund the cost back to me if I am not satisfied with the purchase. I believe with travel that this applies up to 3 months from date of purchase.

 

I have read about on C.C. about Credit Card companies refunding amounts when Travel Agencies in the States have become bankrupt and customers are trying to retrieve their money. Usually these Travel Agents have kept the deposits and payments for themselves and have not passed them on to the Cruise Lines.

 

Jennie

[woodscruise]

Dougo in Oz is correct that if you do pay by a credit card and the service is not provided, then they do refund you the fare. This was the case when Ansett Airlines went into bankruptcy in 2001. ( The proviso is that the airline was the merchant ie the airline ticket was plated (ticketed) on Ansetts ticket stock and the money was paid directly to Ansett. This is the case also with cruise companies if they do go into receievership.

 

regards

 

Michael

[ging466]

Usually these Travel Agents have kept the deposits and payments for themselves and have not passed them on to the Cruise Lines. Jennie

 

U wud know straight away that something was fishy when your payment had not been processed by the cruise line.

 

I'm shelling out a very large amount of money for my SS cruises and I'm paying by instalment watching the US $ very closely. I don't know how the credit card company would react because I've made so many payments over an 18 month period.

 

Cheers

ging466

[NSWP]

My son has a travel business. Apart from South American travel he also deals with Antarctic and Expedition ships. He told me ages ago all this tripe about the cruise lines stopping US and UK T/A's booking Aussie pax was to protect the Australian Travel Industry and arose after an International Travel Convention a couple of years ago.

[ging466]

He told me ages ago all this tripe about the cruise lines stopping US and UK T/A's booking Aussie pax was to protect the Australian Travel Industry and arose after an International Travel Convention a couple of years ago.

 

Of course it is. I'm wondering if travel agents read these boards and see how savvy we are booking overseas and they will realise that they are losing a lot of money. They can continue to lobby the cruiselines to cut this avenue from us.

 

Cheers

ging466

[Erica@cruisecritic]

Hi everyone,

 

I'm working on a story about this subject and I need your help! I've seen the rumor mentioned a few times about Australians getting turned away at the pier for booking through a U.S. agency. But I actually can't seem to find this warning in print. If any of you can point me to a travel agency's Web site with this warning or have a story about being told this point blank, could you please email me (my email is my username -- just add .com at the end).

 

Also feel free to email me if you've had an experience where your booking through a US agency was denied or if you've had any success lately finding great deals through Australian agencies.

 

Thanks!

[newfarmers]

Hi everyone,

 

I'm working on a story about this subject and I need your help! I've seen the rumor mentioned a few times about Australians getting turned away at the pier for booking through a U.S. agency. But I actually can't seem to find this warning in print. If any of you can point me to a travel agency's Web site with this warning or have a story about being told this point blank, could you please email me (my email is my username -- just add .com at the end).

 

Also feel free to email me if you've had an experience where your booking through a US agency was denied or if you've had any success lately finding great deals through Australian agencies.

 

Thanks!

 

Hi Erica

 

My email is on its way.

 

Cheers

 

Pete

[Australian family]

Hi everyone,

 

I'm working on a story about this subject and I need your help! I've seen the rumor mentioned a few times about Australians getting turned away at the pier for booking through a U.S. agency. But I actually can't seem to find this warning in print. If any of you can point me to a travel agency's Web site with this warning or have a story about being told this point blank, could you please email me (my email is my username -- just add .com at the end).

 

Also feel free to email me if you've had an experience where your booking through a US agency was denied or if you've had any success lately finding great deals through Australian agencies.

 

Thanks!

 

Hi Erica, that is wonderful that you are working on doing a story on this subject, maybe you should do a new thread and that might get some peoples attention.

 

I was actually talking to a TA yesterday and was talking about how we are charged such a high rates for cruises compared to the Americans and she said to me that is because it is a bigger market in the USA. Well if it is a bigger market in the USA then why are there so many extra cruise ships coming to Australia? It is a well known fact that the number of people cruising here in Australia has jumped considerably.

[ging466]

she said to me that is because it is a bigger market in the USA.

 

I'm sick to death of hearing that excuse...especially when u r on a cruise with heaps of Americans who have paid thousands of dollars less for the same cruise.

 

Australians pay more for everything and always the same excuse, our market isn't big enough:mad: Ok so we haven't got millions & millions of people but why should we get ripped off blind...have a look at the price Americans pay for cosmetics, it makes me cry!

 

I've had a gutful...this little black duck is sick of it. I don't buy anything retail in Australia any more, especially cruises:)

 

Cheers

ging466

[dougo in oz]

Hi Erica

 

I'm wondering what are you going to do with your story? What's the purpose behind writing it?

 

I'm not questioning your motives for writing it, but if you can tell us what you're trying to achieve, then the responses you get may be different.

 

And finally, is there a deadline to have our respective tales to you and will contributers be "anonymous" or "named" if quoted in your story?

 

Cheers

Heather

[Whitemarsh]

Hi Erica

 

My email is on its way.

 

Cheers

 

Pete

 

So you were denied boarding or something similar?

[floatie]

I was actually talking to a TA yesterday and was talking about how we are charged such a high rates for cruises compared to the Americans and she said to me that is because it is a bigger market in the USA.

I think they say "baloney" to tales like that in the US.:D

That theory applies to the consumables market ...not to cruise sales.

Ships operating from a country or region are as proportionate "as possible" to the demand... it would be crazy to do otherwise.

Well if it is a bigger market in the USA then why are there so many extra cruise ships coming to Australia? It is a well known fact that the number of people cruising here in Australia has jumped considerably.

The demand is growing here... maybe a lot more than elsewhere based on our population and with that strong demand the prices are nudged up where & when possible. After all, it is a business and profit is the game.

Until the scales start to tip the other way don't expect to see any red hot specials.:(

Some very cheap prices on overseas sites can be the "get 'em in" trick where those cabins have just sold out when you call ... "but we have some available at a slightly higher price"??? By this time you are keen on your adventure to wherever and you pay the premium.. Gotcha !!!:cool:

Those one or two cabins advertised and sold at a loss can generate enquiries in the thousands of which many result in sales that more than make up the loss on the advertised special.

In short... demand here is high and I would suspect there are not many ships setting sail without a "house full" sign. While they are being filled with ease why should they discount fares???:o

[newfarmers]

So you were denied boarding or something similar?

 

nope. Erica also asked for stories on cheap fares through Oz agents so I gave her our story.

 

I don't believe anyone has ever been denied boarding despite the one example that has been quoted on these boards and the scare mongering campaign being waged the Oz travel agent industry (in cohouts with Carnival/P&O/Princess and RCCL) is nothing more than that

 

cheers

 

pete

[newfarmers]

Some very cheap prices on overseas sites can be the "get 'em in" trick where those cabins have just sold out when you call ... "but we have some available at a slightly higher price"??? By this time you are keen on your adventure to wherever and you pay the premium.. Gotcha !!!:cool:

 

Those one or two cabins advertised and sold at a loss can generate enquiries in the thousands of which many result in sales that more than make up the loss on the advertised special.

 

yes and no. I initially booked our Baltic cruise direct with NCL. Prices were less than I could get here and I also had the added reassurance that I could cancel up until 60 days out and get a FULL refund, unlike anything our agents and Oz based cruise lines can/will offer.

 

Couple of days later I was checking prices online when I found outsides offered with a big US agent for about USD700pp less.

 

I called their 1800 number and the advertised $1499 price was confirmed. He called NCL to place the booking. Everything was confirmed down to our cabin number.

 

Got a call back a little while later - when the paperwork had been sent through from NCL, a price higher than we'd booked with them initially was on the paperwork. He told us not to worry and that the price he'd quoted would stand. We received maybe three more calls during the course of the day as he battled with NCL. Eventually said he'd get it sorted and not to worry.

 

And he did. NCL eventually confirmed the price and to top it off we received onboard credit and a bottle of wine from the US agent.

 

A great experience, our second with a US online agent after one horrible experience and one ordinary one booking with Oz travel agents. The one good experience we had here (hi Deb if you're reading) eventually ended up with us cancelling the booking after we found the cruise way cheaper with our what was to be our first US onine booking.

 

pete

[Erica@cruisecritic]

Hi everyone and thanks to all who have posted or emailed me responses. I'm hoping to do more writing next week -- so feel free to email me through the weekend.

 

The purpose of this story is to clear up confusion. We (the CC editors) get a lot of emails from Australians who aren't sure if they can book cruises through US agencies or not, and I've heard lots of stories about people wondering what will happen if they book through a US agency -- the old "will I be denied boarding"? So it aroused our curiousity as to exactly what is going on with cross-border bookings since everyone has a different story and we didn't know the real answer.

 

I've been talking to cruise lines (as much as they'll talk to me!) and travel agencies and travelers. I'm looking for as many different viewpoints as possible, since this issue is not black and white. Most of all, I'm still trying to find a "denial of boarding" warning printed in black and white somewhere, or an instance of someone actually being denied boarding for being an Australian who booked through a US agent -- because so far I think that warning is a big ol' urban legend!

[dougo in oz]

Hi everyone and thanks to all who have posted or emailed me responses. I'm hoping to do more writing next week -- so feel free to email me through the weekend.

 

The purpose of this story is to clear up confusion. We (the CC editors) get a lot of emails from Australians who aren't sure if they can book cruises through US agencies or not, and I've heard lots of stories about people wondering what will happen if they book through a US agency -- the old "will I be denied boarding"? So it aroused our curiousity as to exactly what is going on with cross-border bookings since everyone has a different story and we didn't know the real answer.

 

I've been talking to cruise lines (as much as they'll talk to me!) and travel agencies and travelers. I'm looking for as many different viewpoints as possible, since this issue is not black and white. Most of all, I'm still trying to find a "denial of boarding" warning printed in black and white somewhere, or an instance of someone actually being denied boarding for being an Australian who booked through a US agent -- because so far I think that warning is a big ol' urban legend!

 

 

Hi Erica, thanks for clarifying the reasons for preparing your story.

 

I think it's hard to find out the "real answer" when there are so many stories around which from my cynical perspective, appear to be generated around by Aussie TAs. I'll go further and add that in my opinion, it's not the small operators so much as the larger TAs IMO as they have more to lose especially if they are cruise specialists or rely on internet bookings and enquiries. And let's face it, the "packages" they put together look so nice don't they? But they've built into the packages some huge margins for themselves...lucky for them they can do that !!:)

 

The only denial of boarding that I've read was "apparently" a letter that a Queensland person wrote to the Courier Mail ? which co-incidentally found its way to a weekly cruise newsletter published by Aussie TA's members of cruise association or something similar. How convenient for them that this letter just happened to be read by a member and just happened to appear in their newsletter !:cool:

 

Apart from the development of a "boarding will be denied policy" I've also heard about "you'll have to pay the full fare at check-in" by some lines but I don't know if that is true...perhaps another urban legend. What this amounts to IMO is nothing less than outright discrimination of non-Northern American citizens and a denial of our basic human rights to purchase goods and services from our supplier of choice.

 

My understanding is that the Aussie TA's lobbied various cruise lines to get agreement not to sell to Aussies in order to protect their lucrative income. Let's face it - there's not much commission for airfares if at all now; land content tour's commission has dropped considerably from what I'm told, so all they have left that brings in a decent income - paid for by us of course - is their commission from cruise lines.

 

The other thing that I've read about concerns "regional pricing" which has seen some special fares published only for our North American cousins - apparently everyone else can still book a cabin but not at that price.

 

Do we have regional pricing in Australia??? not to my knowledge. Why not? Because it wouldn't encourage our North American cousins to come "down under" if they realised that they were being ripped off. But wait !! They aren't being ripped off - we are !! They pay the rate that is available to them in US dollars ! :mad:

 

What we do have for those of us who like cruising overseas and can only buy a cabin in Australia, are prices set some months, possibly even up to a couple of years out from the sail date. Apparently all this is done so far in advance to enable the cruise line to get the brochures printed, allegedly, and the prices are converted from the $ US to the $ AUD waaaay baaaack when Adam was a boy. Funnily enough, the foreign exhange rate isn't transparent at all.

 

Now I know that as an Aussie, the only legal tender is Aussie $ here, but if we buy something from O/S, then our banks convert it on our CC, and we (generally) pay bank fees here too so what's the problem? None so far as the Tax Commissioner goes and let's face it, if it's not OK with him, then IT'S NOT OK PERIOD !!! Also if a TA here books with the cruise line in the US, then they have earned income here so they have to pay tax here - what's the problem? Aaahhh yes, I've got it now, the commissions would be a lot less....

 

I find it ludicrous that anyone from say the US or Canada can book a cruise from Australia or New Zealand and pay at a cheaper rate compared to Aussies and New Zealanders - where's the regional prices for us? :mad:

 

Now I can understand it if the rate we pay for the Pacific Sun and other "Aussie" ships is higher IF labour on board was set at the Australian minimum wage, currently around $AUD 14 per hour I believe, but I don't think that is the case - please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

If the Aussie other TAs have in fact had discussions with cruise lines concerning pricing structures and passenger's ability to book with the TA of their choice no matter where they operate from, then in my view, that is collusion is it not? Surely the ACCC would be interested. :D

 

I'm sure that there's no protectionism going on here :eek: after all I've read in the papers that the Aussie cruise industry has grown by a huge percentage of the past couple of years - and I'm sure that the associated economic growth forecast over the next several years has nothing to do with the high prices we pay either !! http://www.eturbonews.com/13134/australian-cruise-industry-needs-port-upgrades-grow

.

[bazzaw]

I take no notice of rumours, postings, other peoples experiences as they perceive them -

 

ONLY THE FACTS PLEASE, Mr Watson.

 

Here is the ONLY fact that I am aware of regarding the ability or otherwise of Ozzies being able to purchase cruises from US TA's.

 

From the website of a very well known and large US cruise agent:

 

We are able to offer the deeply discounted U.S. rates of most of the cruise lines we represent to citizens of other countries. However, the following cruise lines now prohibit all U.S. travel agencies (including ******** ** **) from selling cruises to citizens of countries other than the U.S. and Canada, unless they have a residence in the U.S. or Canada. This is not a ********* ** ** policy or a U.S. government policy, it is a corporate policy instituted by each of these cruise lines.

 

Celebrity

Costa Cruises

Cunard

Holland America

MSC Cruises

Oceania Cruises

Princess*

Royal Caribbean

Star Clippers

*Residents of Mexico are permitted to book Princess through ********* ** **

Note: Residents of the U.K. and Australia may not book P&O Cruises through ********* ** **.

 

 

 

This is the ONLY fact that I am aware of in this matter - everything else is hypothesis and conjecture, combined with the good luck that some have reported in having actually circumvented this instruction above.

 

 

Barry

[Gold Coast Cruisers]

Hi everyone and thanks to all who have posted or emailed me responses. I'm hoping to do more writing next week -- so feel free to email me through the weekend.

 

The purpose of this story is to clear up confusion. We (the CC editors) get a lot of emails from Australians who aren't sure if they can book cruises through US agencies or not, and I've heard lots of stories about people wondering what will happen if they book through a US agency -- the old "will I be denied boarding"? So it aroused our curiousity as to exactly what is going on with cross-border bookings since everyone has a different story and we didn't know the real answer.

 

I've been talking to cruise lines (as much as they'll talk to me!) and travel agencies and travelers. I'm looking for as many different viewpoints as possible, since this issue is not black and white. Most of all, I'm still trying to find a "denial of boarding" warning printed in black and white somewhere, or an instance of someone actually being denied boarding for being an Australian who booked through a US agent -- because so far I think that warning is a big ol' urban legend!

 

 

Thank you so much Erica for pursuing this topic. It will be so good to hopefully get precise information as to what is fact and what isn't. We personally have booked the majority of our past cruises through US Agents, their service has been second to none, and have never been denied boarding anywhere.

 

We await the outcome of your investigations with much interest....:)

 

Jillybean:)

[Whitemarsh]

nope. Erica also asked for stories on cheap fares through Oz agents so I gave her our story.

 

I don't believe anyone has ever been denied boarding despite the one example that has been quoted on these boards and the scare mongering campaign being waged the Oz travel agent industry (in cohouts with Carnival/P&O/Princess and RCCL) is nothing more than that

 

cheers

 

pete

 

Cool, glad to hear you were not denied boarding or anything like that.

[Whitemarsh]

I take no notice of rumours, postings, other peoples experiences as they perceive them -

 

ONLY THE FACTS PLEASE, Mr Watson.

 

Here is the ONLY fact that I am aware of regarding the ability or otherwise of Ozzies being able to purchase cruises from US TA's.

 

From the website of a very well known and large US cruise agent:

 

We are able to offer the deeply discounted U.S. rates of most of the cruise lines we represent to citizens of other countries. However, the following cruise lines now prohibit all U.S. travel agencies (including ******** ** **) from selling cruises to citizens of countries other than the U.S. and Canada, unless they have a residence in the U.S. or Canada. This is not a ********* ** ** policy or a U.S. government policy, it is a corporate policy instituted by each of these cruise lines.

 

Celebrity

Costa Cruises

Cunard

Holland America

MSC Cruises

Oceania Cruises

Princess*

Royal Caribbean

Star Clippers

*Residents of Mexico are permitted to book Princess through ********* ** **

Note: Residents of the U.K. and Australia may not book P&O Cruises through ********* ** **.

 

 

 

This is the ONLY fact that I am aware of in this matter - everything else is hypothesis and conjecture, combined with the good luck that some have reported in having actually circumvented this instruction above.

 

 

Barry

 

And it's a fact that you only need to keep searching on the Internet to find an American travel agent that will take your booking. Canadian online travel agents are also more than happy to do so.

 

So far no one has been able to locate a Passage Contract from any cruise line that mentions anything about where passengers purchase their ticket.

[The_Big_M]

What this amounts to IMO is nothing less than outright discrimination of non-Northern American citizens and a denial of our basic human rights to purchase goods and services from our supplier of choice.

.

 

Somehow, I don't think that's a human right.

 

 

The other thing that I've read about concerns "regional pricing" which has seen some special fares published only for our North American cousins - apparently everyone else can still book a cabin but not at that price.

 

Regional pricing is prevalent elsewhere, and lines have US and Canadian state-based specials. This is the same as having different pricing between countries; both are regions, just at different levels.

 

Do we have regional pricing in Australia??? not to my knowledge.

Why not? Because it wouldn't encourage our North American cousins to come "down under" if they realised that they were being ripped off. But wait !! They aren't being ripped off - we are !! They pay the rate that is available to them in US dollars ! :mad:

 

Not within, i.e. between states, but from the rest of your paragraph it sounds like you mean this locality having cheaper prices than the US. In that comparison, we do have different (i.e. regional) prices at times - and the ledger is in our favour at times as well.

 

This issue has only blown up within the past 6-9 months - but that is exactly when local demand has grown as we weathered the GFC far better than most other Western countries - and more than the dominant cruising country being compared to i.e. US. As a result, it's still often necessary in their market to discount to get sales. Here, it's the opposite as they've sold out of cruises at comparable prices, so have done what pretty much any business will when demand exceeds supply: raise their prices.

 

At the same time though, they are trying to increase supply, though in a cautious way having been drastically burnt just two years ago when they had to discount cruises moreso locally than offshore.

 

As for the point about US citizens buying offshore when pricing is better; they do and have. Again, right now the situation doesn't favour that, but it has in the past, and they certainly took advantage of that the way some Australians (and other nationalities) are now.

 

I find it ludicrous that anyone from say the US or Canada can book a cruise from Australia or New Zealand and pay at a cheaper rate compared to Aussies and New Zealanders - where's the regional prices for us? :mad:

 

Your example demonstrates that regional pricing exists, the only question is whose favour is it in. If one gains on a currency conversion, the other must be disadvantaged.

 

The fact is some cruises are priced better here, but some are priced better there. This is largely because our economy is in better shape than theirs. While we might find things more similar right now if our economy was in worse shape, I don't think many people would genuinely want that! It is only because of the overall health of the economy that so many people are in a position to buy!

[bazzaw]

"This is the ONLY fact that I am aware of in this matter - everything else is hypothesis and conjecture, combined with the good luck that some have reported in having actually circumvented this instruction above."

 

 

"Barry And it's a fact that you only need to keep searching on the Internet to find an American travel agent that will take your booking. Canadian online travel agents are also more than happy to do so."

 

You have repeated (in your words) what I said above --it appears that some claim to have circumvented the cruiselines instruction to one of the US's largest cruise TA's. I don't doubt their claims - I only comment that to do so or find the way to do so does not deny the basic underlying fact that I have quoted. There is a law that says you should not exceed the speed limit - but many do and get away with it. That doesn't deny the basic fact of the law.

 

Now my questions are - why would the cruiselines give this instruction to this large TA - and why would the TA itself comply with the instruction (which we have seen that they do) if other TA's don't? Or are they the only TA that has received this instruction - or do others simply ignore it?

 

Barry

[bazzaw]

The Big M

 

I have to say that I find your postings to be refreshingly astute! :) Please continue :)

 

 

Barry

[Gold Coast Cruisers]

Barry wrote.......Now my questions are - why would the cruiselines give this instruction to this large TA - and why would the TA itself comply with the instruction (which we have seen that they do) if other TA's don't? Or are they the only TA that has received this instruction - or do others simply ignore it?

 

 

That's a very good question Barry because afterall this 'instruction' would have to be across the board to all offshore T/A's not just one. Maybe it's just that this large TA is the only one that has put it in print on their website. I would love to know exactly who 'instructed' whom, was it the T/A's association or the cruiselines themselves? Or is it as someone said they are in 'cahouts' together.

 

Jillybean:)