Carnival loses "slip-and-fall" lawsuit

[leroy.p.bedwetter]

While I feel for the woman who slipped by accident, I feel that the settlement is absolutely absurd!

 

Normally I would agree with you, however, Carnival has known that the decks on the Spirit class ships has been a problem since day one. I have witnessed several people fall on those decks including my wife. I saw one individual last year hit his head so hard that he did not know where he was at for a while. Carnival has elected to ignore the problem as a result of the expense of replacing deck surfaces. When these decks get wet, they become extremely slippery. Carnival needs to fix the problem.

[flcruiser4]

Normally I would agree with you, however, Carnival has known that the decks on the Spirit class ships has been a problem since day one. I have witnessed several people fall on those decks including my wife. I saw one individual last year hit his head so hard that he did not know where he was at for a while. Carnival has elected to ignore the problem as a result of the expense of replacing deck surfaces. When these decks get wet, they become extremely slippery. Carnival needs to fix the problem.

 

Agreed. Carnival needs to fix the problem. The judge should have ordered them to address this issue on all their ships instead of just awarding someone $2m for pain and suffering. That isn't going to prevent someone else from getting hurt.

[gemsm]

$4.6m? Is that supposed to bring the husband back to life? If husband makes $50k a year that's 92 years of lost wages.

 

$60k for a rear-ender might be ridiculous, might not be. For most rear-enders it probably is. Depends how bad the REAL injuries are, not the ones people decide to make up.

 

I am learning a lot from you. I will be better equipped next time I get rear-ended. I will keep a personal injury attorney on speed dial on my phone and be sure to call even if I feel no pain because surely the attorney will find something to sue for.

 

Well if you live in a state that allows a minimum amount of liability insurance coverage that is less than most automobiles cost it might not be a bad idea. and injuries can be pretty severe if someone plows into you at 45 miles per hour when you are at a dead stop and the chain reaction damages 4 vehicles (not counting the one that hit you).

 

But hey since you are the expert...how much should that be worth. Actual damages which do not include loss of quality of life, the refund of the couple grand forked out for vacation that I didn't get to go on (by the way the courts do not consider that "actual economic damages" in case you didn't know that) were about 20 grand and permanent neck back and knee injuries were the result. Is THAT worth 60K to you or just the 20?

 

4.6 million for loss of life -- Someone who was 20 years old and in college and looked forward to a total earnings ratio of an estimated 8 million including retirement, savings, and earnings...as well as the fact that his kid grew up without a father. How much is THAT worth to you?

 

Getting a clue now or are you still gonna be a jackwagon who thinks money can't help in these situations?

[richstowe]

Normally I would agree with you, however, Carnival has known that the decks on the Spirit class ships has been a problem since day one. When these decks get wet, they become extremely slippery. Carnival needs to fix the problem.

 

100% agree

Agreed. Carnival needs to fix the problem. The judge should have ordered them to address this issue on all their ships instead of just awarding someone $2m for pain and suffering. That isn't going to prevent someone else from getting hurt.

 

Not sure if a judge would be allowed to address this. I believe they can only directly

rule on the issues of the case. However by awarding large verdicts they are indirectly doing so.

For those, like me who think this is alot of money, remember this seems to

be the best way to get Carnival to change the surfaces around the pools.

If the award is reduced ,Carnival (and other cruise lines) will have no incentive to fix things.

[dwayneb236]

Seems fair to me, since this was an issue that Carnival is aware of, and i'm one of the most cycnical people out there. We obviously know zero details here, but we continue to act like we were in the court house. sheeeesh.

[flcruiser4]

Well if you live in a state that allows a minimum amount of liability insurance coverage that is less than most automobiles cost it might not be a bad idea. and injuries can be pretty severe if someone plows into you at 45 miles per hour when you are at a dead stop and the chain reaction damages 4 vehicles (not counting the one that hit you).

 

But hey since you are the expert...how much should that be worth. Actual damages which do not include loss of quality of life, the refund of the couple grand forked out for vacation that I didn't get to go on (by the way the courts do not consider that "actual economic damages" in case you didn't know that) were about 20 grand and permanent neck back and knee injuries were the result. Is THAT worth 60K to you or just the 20?

 

4.6 million for loss of life -- Someone who was 20 years old and in college and looked forward to a total earnings ratio of an estimated 8 million including retirement, savings, and earnings...as well as the fact that his kid grew up without a father. How much is THAT worth to you?

 

Getting a clue now or are you still gonna be a jackwagon who thinks money can't help in these situations?

 

So this 20 year old that was killed was going to make $102k per year for the next 45 years and that is a fact? What a joke. No one could know that when they are twenty years old.

 

The problem is that in all these cases you can only sue for what you can collect. If that drunk driver hadn't been driving a company vehicle the award would have been much lower because they would never be able to get that kind of money from an average person.

 

If you got $60k for a rear-ender, how much were the actual economic damages (medical bills, loss of income, etc)? Many people would be able to cover that with insurance but not all. So you either sued someone with decent insurance coverage, good income, or assets.

 

That's what really irritates me. If I had rear-ended you perhaps the award would be $200k instead of $60k because: a- I carry a lot of insurance, and b- I make enough money that $200k can be garnished from me over a reasonable amount of time. So that forces me to carry ridiculously high insurance amounts while the low income person that lives paycheck to paycheck doesn't have that problem because no one will ever sue them for $200k.

[leroy.p.bedwetter]

Agreed. Carnival needs to fix the problem. The judge should have ordered them to address this issue on all their ships instead of just awarding someone $2m for pain and suffering. That isn't going to prevent someone else from getting hurt.

 

 

Not sure a judge has that authority. However, if Carnival has to pay out $2m enough times, it will soon be cheaper for them to fix the problem.

 

As far as insurance goes, more than likely, Carnival, like most big companies, is self insured.

 

Again, the Spirit class ships have a known problem. They could have done something about it years ago but have elected not to. In other words, they have placed their own profit ahead of your safety. If they ignore the problem and you get hurt as a result, you deserve evey penny you can collect.

[gemsm]

So this 20 year old that was killed was going to make $102k per year for the next 45 years and that is a fact? What a joke. No one could know that when they are twenty years old.

 

The problem is that in all these cases you can only sue for what you can collect. If that drunk driver hadn't been driving a company vehicle the award would have been much lower because they would never be able to get that kind of money from an average person.

 

If you got $60k for a rear-ender, how much were the actual economic damages (medical bills, loss of income, etc)? Many people would be able to cover that with insurance but not all. So you either sued someone with decent insurance coverage, good income, or assets.

 

That's what really irritates me. If I had rear-ended you perhaps the award would be $200k instead of $60k because: a- I carry a lot of insurance, and b- I make enough money that $200k can be garnished from me over a reasonable amount of time. So that forces me to carry ridiculously high insurance amounts while the low income person that lives paycheck to paycheck doesn't have that problem because no one will ever sue them for $200k.

 

Did you miss the word ESTIMATE? No the 102k was not fact. But hey you missed the best part...the 4.6 was "actual" damages...The punitive...22.2 million because the company allowed someone to drive a company vehicle with 2 dWi convictions and a suspended license which resulted in the death of the 20 year old father of 1. And the company appealed and the appellate judge determined that the worksheet used to determine punitive damages was incorrect. He changed the settlement to -- wait get this -- 26.8 million because the jury inadvertantly subtracted the 4.6 million in actual damages from the punitive in error.

 

As for my suit...actual damages were 38,000 (and like I said not everything is considered in "actual damages" portion. The person that hit me had 20,000 of coverage - minimum.

So no they were not "decently" insured. But I bet you they will be after this accident.

[flcruiser4]

Did you miss the word ESTIMATE? No the 102k was not fact. But hey you missed the best part...the 4.6 was "actual" damages...The punitive...22.2 million because the company allowed someone to drive a company vehicle with 2 dWi convictions and a suspended license which resulted in the death of the 20 year old father of 1. And the company appealed and the appellate judge determined that the worksheet used to determine punitive damages was incorrect. He changed the settlement to -- wait get this -- 26.8 million because the jury inadvertantly subtracted the 4.6 million in actual damages from the punitive in error.

 

As for my suit...actual damages were 38,000 (and like I said not everything is considered in "actual damages" portion. The person that hit me had 20,000 of coverage - minimum.

So no they were not "decently" insured. But I bet you they will be after this accident.

 

If you got $60k and their insurance was $20k, clearly they had a way to pay the other $40k. If it had been a minimum wage single mom with no assets you wouldn't even have been awarded as much as you did.

 

Great for the woman who sued and got $26m. Like I said, if it was not a company car she would have never been awarded even $1m. People that have nothing (assets, income, etc) to be sued for love to defend frivilous lawsuits because the huge judgement will never be against them.

[gemsm]

If you got $60k and their insurance was $20k, clearly they had a way to pay the other $40k. If it had been a minimum wage single mom with no assets you wouldn't even have been awarded as much as you did.

 

Great for the woman who sued and got $26m. Like I said, if it was not a company car she would have never been awarded even $1m. People that have nothing (assets, income, etc) to be sued for love to defend frivilous lawsuits because the huge judgement will never be against them.

 

No they didn't. THat is why I purchase uninsured/underinsured motorist coverage from my insurance company. I sued my company to pay the difference because the dipwad that hit me while texting on the cell phone didn't have enough insurance and had no assets. Welcome to America where you can cause major damage to someone's life and walk away with the excuse of "I am poor...sucks to be you". Hence why when a company knows they are in the wrong and cause someone major injury, Judges award large amounts of damages to get the company to fix the problem

[flcruiser4]

No they didn't. THat is why I purchase uninsured/underinsured motorist coverage from my insurance company. I sued my company to pay the difference because the dipwad that hit me while texting on the cell phone didn't have enough insurance and had no assets. Welcome to America where you can cause major damage to someone's life and walk away with the excuse of "I am poor...sucks to be you". Hence why when a company knows they are in the wrong and cause someone major injury, Judges award large amounts of damages to get the company to fix the problem

 

I agree, which is why I think sometimes judgements are too high. Bob can make the same negligent mistake as James but if Bob has high income or assets, he will be sued for more than James.

 

Luckily I have good health and disability insurance at work so I have never had a need for uninsured motorist coverage, but I know many people that do.

[Gig103]

$1,960,000.00 for future non-economic damages

 

That's a tough pill to swallow. The rest of the judgment seems reasonable in my outsider's eye, but *****. What sucks even more is that the lawyer gets 1/3 of the total judgment (based on my family experience with personal injury lawyers), so that's $1,000,000. And then the government might take some of it. It's almost like the judge had to put enough "padding" in place so that her actual expenses (the reasonable part of the verdict) would not be eaten up. Which is a crappy way to do business.

 

For punitive verdicts, I'd rather see them make Carnival put $2m into a rehab facility or something that helps the greater good, instead of one lady and her lawyers. It might cut down on this sort of judgment.

[gemsm]

$1,960,000.00 for future non-economic damages

 

That's a tough pill to swallow. The rest of the judgment seems reasonable in my outsider's eye, but *****. What sucks even more is that the lawyer gets 1/3 of the total judgment (based on my family experience with personal injury lawyers), so that's $1,000,000. And then the government might take some of it. It's almost like the judge had to put enough "padding" in place so that her actual expenses (the reasonable part of the verdict) would not be eaten up. Which is a crappy way to do business.

 

For punitive verdicts, I'd rather see them make Carnival put $2m into a rehab facility or something that helps the greater good, instead of one lady and her lawyers. It might cut down on this sort of judgment.

 

While I agree with you on the "padding" the judge could have also required Carnival to pay the attorney fees which precludes the attorney from getting the 1/3 of total judgement. And just for your info and anyone else who may not know this...The government (as in the IRS) may not take ANY of a lawsuit settlement. It is non-taxable. The government may only tax interest earned on the money if the lady puts it in the bank or whatever.

 

Also a judge can't make Carnival put money into a rehab facility etc....they can only award actual and punitive damages to the party in the lawsuit. That is the law.

[ryanpatricksmom]

We've sailed the Pride in a variety of weather conditions, and I can say that I have seen many, many people slip in several spots on the ship over the years, some have been serious, and one delayed our departure. I do think that they addressed the problem, at least in part, while the ship was in dry dock. The lido buffet area flooring was replaced by textured tiles, and alot of the slipping and sliding has stopped. I'm pretty agile, and I've skated for several feet on more than one occasion before the change.

 

While the amount of the award is debatable, I do think that they needed to take remedial action, so if this case was the catalyst, then it's okay by me.

[flcruiser4]

While I agree with you on the "padding" the judge could have also required Carnival to pay the attorney fees which precludes the attorney from getting the 1/3 of total judgement. And just for your info and anyone else who may not know this...The government (as in the IRS) may not take ANY of a lawsuit settlement. It is non-taxable. The government may only tax interest earned on the money if the lady puts it in the bank or whatever.

 

Also a judge can't make Carnival put money into a rehab facility etc....they can only award actual and punitive damages to the party in the lawsuit. That is the law.

 

Punative damages are taxable.

[cruisinfanatic]

I would not suffer through an injury. After Carnival covers the medical expenses how is an extra $2m for pain and suffering going to reduce your suffering? If there is pain/suffering left after all the surgeries and medical treatments, no amount of money is going to make it go away.

Maybe you are missing part of the point.

The high judgment was to make the cruiseline "suffer" a little. How else do you make a company pay attention and correct problems if not for money

[flcruiser4]

Maybe you are missing part of the point.

The high judgment was to make the cruiseline "suffer" a little. How else do you make a company pay attention and correct problems if not for money

 

Judges can include specific performance as part of a judgement.

[gemsm]

Punative damages are taxable.

 

Not necessarily:

 

gross income does not include any damages received (whether by suit or agreement and whether as lump sums or as periodic payments) on account of personal injury or sickness

The exclusion from gross income of damages received on account of personal injury or sickness specifically does not apply to punitive damages received in connection with a case not involving physical injury or sickness.

 

All damages in this case involved physical injury therefore even punitive damages are not taxable

[gemsm]

Apparently flcruiser considers himself a lawyer...though if that is the case he is a really bad one

[H82seaUgo]

anyone know the stats of falls and lawsuits on the mayflower?

[mimgan3]

[quote name='glrounds'][I][FONT="Comic Sans MS"][SIZE="2"][COLOR="Navy"]I thought the settlement was quite fair, actually. None of the amounts seemed out of the ordinary. Not having [B]ALL THE FACTS[/B] in the case makes it difficult for any of us to look at it very objectively, I'll concede.

This can and most likely will be appealed. It will drag on for some time IMHO. Finally, if and when it is paid it will have already been absorbed into Carnival's bottom line. 20 some ships multiplied by 52 weeks per year since 2009 . . . its peanuts by comparison to Carnival's gross receipts.

And, dawgonnit, those decks are slipperier than cat poop. :D [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/I][/QUOTE]

There will be no appeal, verdict issued by judge, and Carnival admitted liability, for those who think this amount is unfair, you obviously have never had a serious surgery, much less 6 as stated in article. She is probably facing a few more, and I speak with some authority, as someone who had a 3 level spinal fusion in 2006 at a cost of $243,000.00, and now facing another to re secure the screws and pedicles in my spine. So IMHO, she deserves every dime.

Mim

[flcruiser4]

[quote name='gemsm']Not necessarily:

gross income does not include any damages received (whether by suit or agreement and whether as lump sums or as periodic payments) on account of personal injury or sickness
The exclusion from gross income of damages received on account of personal injury or sickness specifically does not apply to punitive damages received in connection with a case not involving physical injury or sickness.

All damages in this case involved physical injury therefore even punitive damages are not taxable[/quote]

Wrong. From Publication 525:

[B][I]Court awards and damages.[/I][/B][I] To determine if settlement amounts you receive by compromise or judgment must be included in your income, you must consider the item that the settlement replaces. The character of the income as ordinary income or capital gain depends on the nature of the underlying claim. Include the following as ordinary income. [/I]
[LIST=1]
[*][I]Interest on any award.[/I]
[*][I]Compensation for lost wages or lost profits in most cases.[/I]
[*][I][B]Punitive damages, in most cases. It does not matter if they relate to a physical injury or physical sickness.[/B][/I]
[*][I]Amounts received in settlement of pension rights (if you did not contribute to the plan).[/I]
[*][I]Damages for:[/I]
[LIST=1]
[*][I]Patent or copyright infringement,[/I]
[*][I]Breach of contract, or[/I]
[*][I]Interference with business operations.[/I]
[/LIST]
[*][I]Back pay and damages for emotional distress received to satisfy a claim under Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964.[/I]
[*][I]Attorney fees and costs (including contingent fees) where the underlying recovery is included in gross income.[/I]
[/LIST]

[I]Do not include in your income compensatory damages for personal physical injury or physical sickness (whether received in a lump sum or installments). [/I]

[beach410]

This has happened to someone I know and love, it took her over a year to get back to work, her attorney wasnt nearly as good and barely got back the expenses she incurred, caused serious hardship to the family, she didnt receive a penny for for pain in suffering and left them in debt. This was her first cruise too, she remarkably hasnt soured to cruising and plans on trying it again, it happened on her 2nd day of our 4 day cruise and she spent the rest of the time in a wheel chair on pain meds, when she got home x rays revealed a shattered knee cab, she needed several surgeries. Horrible experience, I wouldnt wish it on anyone.

those decks on the lido are slippery, I almost fell in the exact spot kon several occasions even when paying attention and being careful.

[fireofficer5]

Money is the only way to make a corporation suffer.
CCL will probally still not fix the slippery decks.
Wood decks would be best.

[tiyana4]

[quote name='beach410']This has happened to someone I know and love, it took her over a year to get back to work, her attorney wasnt nearly as good and barely got back the expenses she incurred, caused serious hardship to the family, she didnt receive a penny for for pain in suffering and left them in debt. This was her first cruise too, she remarkably hasnt soured to cruising and plans on trying it again, it happened on her 2nd day of our 4 day cruise and she spent the rest of the time in a wheel chair on pain meds, when she got home x rays revealed a shattered knee cab, she needed several surgeries. Horrible experience, I wouldnt wish it on anyone.

those decks on the lido are slippery, I almost fell in the exact spot kon several occasions even when paying attention and being careful.[/quote]

WOW! That is just awful what happened to your friend. She sounds like a trooper for wanting to cruise again after such a bittersweet verdict. Sometimes it is hard to comprehend how difficult the road to recovery can be until it either happens to them or someone close to them. I agree with you and wouldn't wish it on anyone.

For those who lack empathy... I guess there will always be people who are just insensitive.