Why do I need a passport?

[cruisemom42]

I have to say I don't personally consider the embarkation time an itinerary change...When they say my ship sails at 4:00 and I need to be onboard no later than 2:30 I am there by 2:30...but this ship left atleast 4 hours prior to sailing time...and they said they had no way to contact these guests...find that hard to believe as they have your e-mail addresses and phone numbers, now maybe you wouldn't be able to get the message, but they didn't even attempt to contact them and they admitted that...

 

Yes and no, now CCL will give you a full refund with or without insurance for weather related issues within 48 hours of your cruise, so all cruise lines will handle this in their own way...RCCL in the news, is putting this on the port saying this was their decision and because it was a safety issue it is out of their hands...right now it is up to them what they want to do and they have not yet made a decision...all I can say is they really should man up and take this hit...it would be the right thing to do. I, personally think in the end they will as this is not affecting 5 or 6 people...450 people is a BIG number on a cruise of that size...

 

In the clause quoted by camp637, it does in fact specifically mention a change in departure times.

 

However, the discussion regarding whether or not the cruise line should compensate sort of gets away from the main point, which is that passengers with a passport could have flown to meet the ship at its next port and still have enjoyed the majority of their cruise. Those without a passport had no such luck.

 

I sure would rather be in the former group. For those who work or otherwise have to carefully schedule vacation time, a cruise voucher or compensation is great but does not fully compensate for the time taken off/missed from work, etc.

[tracyanns]

:eek: $1 a share? That means my net worth just dropped by $5000.

Passports are an issue. CCL is flying those passengers who missed the ship to Barbados to catch the ship at no cost to the passenger. Except for those who don't have passports.

 

Positive publicity vs. Negative publicity

We here on CC hear this same sorry story every year at this time. "Do the right thing", " the negative publicity will kill them" guess what? The ships continue to sail full. So where's the negative backlash?

 

 

BTW: Just want you to know that it is not my intention to publicly argue with you. I consider this just a friendly debate on a difference of opinion. I do feel empathy for those affected. I just don't feel that I have a responsibility to make them financially whole again for their decisions.

 

I understand we are not disagreeing, we are discussing...but I think we are talking about different cruises...I was talking about RCL, you said CCL...and I understand that 5,000 shares of stock hurts more to take a hit, but as you know, stocks recover from things like this also. It won't be down from this forever...

[tracyanns]

In the clause quoted by camp637, it does in fact specifically mention a change in departure times.

 

However, the discussion regarding whether or not the cruise line should compensate sort of gets away from the main point, which is that passengers with a passport could have flown to meet the ship at its next port and still have enjoyed the majority of their cruise. Those without a passport had no such luck.

 

I sure would rather be in the former group. For those who work or otherwise have to carefully schedule vacation time, a cruise voucher or compensation is great but does not fully compensate for the time taken off/missed from work, etc.

 

The quote also states they have the right to provide you with alternate transportation...which at this point I don't think they have done, atleast not that I have seen. It also says no where in the article that none of these guests didn't have passports, it says they missed the ship because they weren't onboard when it sailed early...

 

I would prefer to be in the former group also, and I always carry my passports...I just wonder what happens if you are now in San Juan and you don't have credit cards and you brought let's say $1,000 with you for the cruise for the week...that won't get you hotels and meals for a week and possibly may not get you a flight change depending on price...I think this is FAR more of a financial burden on the average cruiser than RCCL.

[GORDONCHICK]

The bottom line remains the same - get a passport. Ends up being a lot less expensive than being stuck in San Juan without one.

[B and C Blake]

and they said they had no way to contact these guests...find that hard to believe as they have your e-mail addresses and phone numbers, now maybe you wouldn't be able to get the message, but they didn't even attempt to contact them and they admitted that...

 

Just how were they suppose to contact the pax .. they were in the flippin' air flying to SJ.

 

It was not CCL fault as the 2 ports were closed by the Coast Guard.

I do feel bad for those without passports but they knew the risks in not getting one. The same for if they do not have travel insurance.

 

I'v seen two posts on John Heald's FB page asking about this as well as a post in the staff area on CCL forums.

[tracyanns]

Just how were they suppose to contact the pax .. they were in the flippin' air flying to SJ.

 

It was not CCL fault as the 2 ports were closed by the Coast Guard.

I do feel bad for those without passports but they knew the risks in not getting one. The same for if they do not have travel insurance.

 

I'v seen two posts on John Heald's FB page asking about this as well as a post in the staff area on CCL forums.

 

This has NOTHING to do with passports...I just read an updated article...there were 145 passengers on RCCL and 15 of those had the air transportation through RCCL so they put them up in a hotel and paid for their flights to meet the ship at the next stop, the rest of the 130 people can do what they want, but entirely at their expense...the other 130 didn't not get help because they didn't have a passport! I find it interesting that the flights had nothing to do with this and yet they are helping those that bought flights through them. Looks like they have decided to not help those other people, oh well...I know I would be reluctant to sail on them again.

 

It also mentioned another couple on Celebrity that were on their ship and were off the ship to have dinner. They came back to the dock while the ship was 40 feet away and they wouldn't stop for them...everything was locked in the safe on the ship except for one credit card so they had to get a hotel and spend $900 to meet the ship the next day...they did say that Celebrity was going to help with some of the costs, which they should...

 

So here is the real issue...do we become afraid to ever leave the ship? Now do we go 10 hours early to check in?

 

I mean the Celebrity ship left ahead of time and left people behind that were already on the ship...and they were back ahead of the planned departure time, someone else mentioned that the Port of San Juan made the decision to limit traffic to the port, they did not make the ships leave, that was a company decision, therefor they in fact made the decision to leave these people behind if that is true.

[pms4104]

Bottom line: those afflicted with the Learned Helplessness Syndrome need to adjust their attitudes and behaviors and take responsibility for their own actions. And let that newfound sense of responsibility and personal independence guide their actions and decisions.

 

In the scenario outlined by the OP, what pre-cruise decisions might have prevented those stranded in San Juan from being left behind? Or, perhaps, onward to the next legitimate port.

 

1. Get a passport ... doesn't matter that the WHTI specifies not required for closed-loop cruises. Cruiselines strongly suggest having a passport to cover the eventualities in the OP's post.

 

2. Buy travel insurance ... and read and understand what is/is not covered. Again, recommended by the cruiselines and reputable travel agents.

 

3. Read the carrier's Carriage Contract ... it clearly spells out the line's legal stand on a variety of issues.

 

4. Fly in at least a day early to reduce the possibility of missing the ship.

 

Yes, 'tis sad that many people missed their intended vacation ... but I would guess that the two ships that left early from San Juan have a combined passenger capacity of perhaps 5-6000 ... most of whom made the sailing. Well, even sadder than the lost vacations will be the potential loss of life and property in the areas impacted by Irene.

[bqkali]

Just how were they suppose to contact the pax .. they were in the flippin' air flying to SJ.

 

This has NOTHING to do with passports...I just read an updated article...

 

It also mentioned another couple on Celebrity that were on their ship and were off the ship to have dinner. They came back to the dock while the ship was 40 feet away and they wouldn't stop for them...

 

While I agree there were likely passengers that would not have been able to be contacted due to the fact they were in the air, I believe the cruiselines should have made a solid effort to contact passengers about the early departure from port.

 

An email could be drafted and sent out to EVERYONE in a matter of minutes - not hours. These days the proportion of people traveling with email access is probably a significant number of people - between blackberries, iPhones, in-flight wireless, and more traditional laptops accessing the internet. Perhaps some people would get the notification and not be able to do anything about it (i.e. stuck on an airplane) but someone who was off the ship exploring Old San Juan would certainly appreciate the opportunity to make it back to the ship ASAP!

 

I know that calling each passenger individually on their cell phone would take too long, but an honest effort would at the very least be good press for the cruiseline - and hopefully get at least a few more passengers onboard in time. Yes, they couldn't make a difference for everyone, but they might have been able to help at least a few more passengers make it.

[B and C Blake]

Just posted by John Heald......

 

 

John Heald

Re the Carnival Victory - I had some information that some people who were unable to baord the port was closed and the ship left have arrived in Barbados and are being looked after. Unfortunatley some who did not have passports were ( and my apologies for the previous incorrect information ) not able to fly and had to return home. I feel awful for them. Ok - time to walk the ship

[sloopsailor]

This issue may affect 500 passengers, but the cruislines have to satisfy millions of stockholders. As a stockholder I don't want my company to take a financial hit because 500 passengers didn't want to get passports or insurance. The decision NOT to get insurance and NOT to get passports is not an easy decision to make but they are decisions that are made knowing full well the risks. So why does my company have to assume the financial hit for someone elses decision to take a risk?

 

This is one example of what is wrong in our society these days - screw the customers, as long as the stockholders aren't affected. Greed trumps compassion. Stockholders demand income for the simple act of investing some of their money - a signature's worth of effort. They don't provide anything towards the success of that company beyond investing those funds and then sitting back and expecting income to flow their way while expending zero effort towards that success. And then they have the gall to say 'to heck with the stupid customers - don't touch my dividends'. Sad, really sad!

 

Keep in mind that my comment makes no judgement regarding the repsonsibility of the passengers themselves, only the callous disregard for their situation because of a concern a dividend check will be affected.

[paul929207]

This is one example of what is wrong in our society these days - screw the customers, as long as the stockholders aren't affected. Greed trumps compassion. Stockholders demand income for the simple act of investing some of their money - a signature's worth of effort. They don't provide anything towards the success of that company beyond investing those funds and then sitting back and expecting income to flow their way while expending zero effort towards that success. And then they have the gall to say 'to heck with the stupid customers - don't touch my dividends'. Sad, really sad!

 

Keep in mind that my comment makes no judgement regarding the repsonsibility of the passengers themselves, only the callous disregard for their situation because of a concern a dividend check will be affected.

What about the fact that passengers are encouraged to purchase travel insurance? What about passports? Passengers are encouraged to have them. Passengers choose to self-insure when they declined to purchase insurance. Passengers choose to assume any risk of not having a passport. Unfortunately, this time the unlikely occurred.

 

Perhaps you would prefer if the cruise lines raised the fares say $25 per person to cover expenses of those who ignored these recommendations.

[G.M.T.]

FYI, St. Thomas, part of the US Virgin Islands with St. John and St. Croix, is a US territory, so US citizens do not need passports to enter or leave the island. Same with Puerto Rico, American Samoa, Guam, Marianas.

 

FYI, I don't need a geography lesson from you. Don't you have a sence of humour as it seems you did not see the smiley at the end of the sentence.

 

There is no helpingh some people.

 

Ron

[G.M.T.]

This is a decision the cruise line made for the safety of the ship and in turn has left behind 450 passengers...I know if the ship leaves without you as you were late that is on you but if the ship leaves without you because it left early, I don't think it is and I don't have my cruise contract in front of me but they should fix this for them.

 

Carnival did not decide to leave earlier, the US Coast Guard / San Jaun Port Authority closed the port and told the Carnival and RCCI ships to leave. So how did the cruise line make the decison.

 

Ron

[SantaFeFan]

What about the fact that passengers are encouraged to purchase travel insurance? What about passports? Passengers are encouraged to have them. Passengers choose to self-insure when they declined to purchase insurance. Passengers choose to assume any risk of not having a passport. Unfortunately, this time the unlikely occurred.

 

Perhaps you would prefer if the cruise lines raised the fares say $25 per person to cover expenses of those who ignored these recommendations.

 

I have no problem with holding people responsible for covering the risk of missing the ship due to something they themselves have done, be it book a flight that gets cancelled or delayed, a car breakdown or accident, or arriving at the dock late from a shore visit. But when they have done everything right and arrive on time only to find the ship left early for whatever reason, I think it's harsh to put the blame of lost value on them.

 

A similar situation would be if the passenger were to stand on a table, fall and break and arm. They'd be responsible for the injury due to a foolish action, regardless of whether they had insurance or not. But if a crewmember were standing on a ladder doing maintenance and fell on a passenger, with the result of an arm being broken, would you consider that passenger also responsible for the injury and that the cruiseline should refuse to cover the injury if the passenger did not have insurance?

[icat2000]

I can't even leave the country without a passport. I wouldn't even dream on attempting to travel without one.

[STARFISH*4]

have a feeling that soon passports will be needed for ALL travel...i wouldnt be without one--i got mine in 2007 and even paid extra so i knew i would have it--it was worth it--i feel like i am "covered" now!!

you just NEVER know when you will need it....its to bad with the San Juan situation unfortunately things happen!--be PREPARED!!

[tracyanns]

This is one example of what is wrong in our society these days - screw the customers, as long as the stockholders aren't affected. Greed trumps compassion. Stockholders demand income for the simple act of investing some of their money - a signature's worth of effort. They don't provide anything towards the success of that company beyond investing those funds and then sitting back and expecting income to flow their way while expending zero effort towards that success. And then they have the gall to say 'to heck with the stupid customers - don't touch my dividends'. Sad, really sad!

 

Keep in mind that my comment makes no judgement regarding the repsonsibility of the passengers themselves, only the callous disregard for their situation because of a concern a dividend check will be affected.

 

And it's a whole $.10 per share that they are worried about...I think a families vacation is worth more than that...

[klfrodo]

This is one example of what is wrong in our society these days - screw the customers, as long as the stockholders aren't affected. Greed trumps compassion. Stockholders demand income for the simple act of investing some of their money - a signature's worth of effort. They don't provide anything towards the success of that company beyond investing those funds and then sitting back and expecting income to flow their way while expending zero effort towards that success. And then they have the gall to say 'to heck with the stupid customers - don't touch my dividends'. Sad, really sad!

 

Keep in mind that my comment makes no judgement regarding the repsonsibility of the passengers themselves, only the callous disregard for their situation because of a concern a dividend check will be affected.

 

After reading your post a couple of times and thinking about it,,,, Yep,,, you're correct.

If you're standing along side the road and need a helping hand, I'll throw a few bucks at you to help. If you're homeless and need a jacket to stay warm,, I'll help you. If you can't afford food for your kids,,, I'll help you.

 

On the other hand,,, if you have a job, pay $5000 to take a cruise vacation, but decide to save money by not buying insurance, too cheap to pay for a passport, get stuck in a stange city because you only have $1000 cash and no credit card,,,, you're on your own. Empathy? Yes. Sympathy? No. Want me to bail you out? Not gonna happen.

[tracyanns]

Carnival did not decide to leave earlier, the US Coast Guard / San Jaun Port Authority closed the port and told the Carnival and RCCI ships to leave. So how did the cruise line make the decison.

 

Ron

 

Actually when the ships LEFT, the port wasn't technically CLOSED, they could have stayed docked there for a little while longer, they just restricted traffic going to the port at the time...when cruisers got to the port at 5:30 the gates were locked and the ship was GONE, so they obviously hadn't JUST left...

 

The Coast Guard Sector San Juan Captain of the Port, Capt. Drew Pearson, set Port Condition ZULU at 6 p.m. Sunday closing all the ports in the U.S. Virgin Islands and Puerto Rico as a protective and precautionary measure in anticipation to the passing of Tropical Storm Irene

 

And that makes me wonder also if they could have not left and just stayed docked, this just closes boats coming in and out and requires the boats there to be moored, so maybe they did have a choice...maybe people could have gotten on the ship but the rest of the ship would have been stuck there overnight if they did that...guess we will never know as we don't work for the coast guard or the cruise line.

[tracyanns]

After reading your post a couple of times and thinking about it,,,, Yep,,, you're correct.

If you're standing along side the road and need a helping hand, I'll throw a few bucks at you to help. If you're homeless and need a jacket to stay warm,, I'll help you. If you can't afford food for your kids,,, I'll help you.

 

On the other hand,,, if you have a job, pay $5000 to take a cruise vacation, but decide to save money by not buying insurance, too cheap to pay for a passport, get stuck in a stange city because you only have $1000 cash and no credit card,,,, you're on your own. Empathy? Yes. Sympathy? No. Want me to bail you out? Not gonna happen.

 

That was kind of harsh...we don't know every situation.

 

First time cruisers don't always know about insurance and hey, if their travel agent doesn't mention it to them or doesn't tell them they should get a passport than that isn't their fault. I have worked in the travel industry part time for a number of years and I KNOW that not everyone is an educated traveler and I have HEARD people tell people they don't need insurance, and hey, a lot of people don't know and they trust the TA and only realize after it is too late that they should have done more research, but not everyone has the resources or even the knowledge of how to do the research.

 

It is an expensive lesson learned but that doens't mean that the passengers are all to blame.

[cruisemom42]

It is an expensive lesson learned but that doens't mean that the passengers are all to blame.

 

Perhaps. But it also doesn't mean the cruise lines are to blame either. Sometimes events occur that aren't the fault of anyone. This is something that seems hard for people to accept in our society today.

 

Personally, I find it difficult to comprehend how people are willing to travel outside the US without the least bit of research or understanding of what could happen if things go wrong.....

[klfrodo]

That was kind of harsh...we don't know every situation.

 

First time cruisers don't always know about insurance and hey, if their travel agent doesn't mention it to them or doesn't tell them they should get a passport than that isn't their fault. I have worked in the travel industry part time for a number of years and I KNOW that not everyone is an educated traveler and I have HEARD people tell people they don't need insurance, and hey, a lot of people don't know and they trust the TA and only realize after it is too late that they should have done more research, but not everyone has the resources or even the knowledge of how to do the research.

 

It is an expensive lesson learned but that doens't mean that the passengers are all to blame.

 

Hey look. I understand. In my 54 years, I've really made some dumba$$ mistakes/decisions. Some of them were costly mistakes.

However, I can honestly say that I have never asked for someone else to bail me out of my problems.

[tracyanns]

Perhaps. But it also doesn't mean the cruise lines are to blame either. Sometimes events occur that aren't the fault of anyone. This is something that seems hard for people to accept in our society today.

 

Personally, I find it difficult to comprehend how people are willing to travel outside the US without the least bit of research or understanding of what could happen if things go wrong.....

 

Honestly, because I don't think all people that travel outside of the US have the knowledge to do the research. There are a ridiculous amount of people that put ALL of their trust into what the cruise line and the TA tell them and never think twice...are they usually the ones standing at the pier when they can't board the ship? Yes, but guess what, maybe that is why it is so devastating to them as THEY didn't get it wrong, they just got bad information and had to pay for it.

 

I don't have a problem at all accepting that no one is to blame, I do have a problem however with these MAJOR corporations not stepping up to try to help. Even if they could negotiate a better rate for hotels or airfare for them, do something.

[klfrodo]

 

I don't have a problem at all accepting that no one is to blame, I do have a problem however with these MAJOR corporations not stepping up to try to help. Even if they could negotiate a better rate for hotels or airfare for them, do something.

 

:D Yeaaaa!!! I knew there would be something we could agree on. Here all this time I was thinking that you wanted these cruiselines to make some of these people 100% whole. Now, offer to help find hotels and such and possibly using their corporate power to get rooms along with the corporate discount,,, I'm with you there.

 

However, what many people don't know is that corpoate discounts are not that much. Hotels? Maybe $10 a night off the rack rate. What does help with a corporate rate are the ability for late check-in, late check out, cancellation policies are more liberal etc. Flights, on the other hand, are usually more expensive than what you can buy direct from the airline.

[sherilyn70]

This has NOTHING to do with passports...I just read an updated article...there were 145 passengers on RCCL and 15 of those had the air transportation through RCCL so they put them up in a hotel and paid for their flights to meet the ship at the next stop, the rest of the 130 people can do what they want, but entirely at their expense...the other 130 didn't not get help because they didn't have a passport! I find it interesting that the flights had nothing to do with this and yet they are helping those that bought flights through them. Looks like they have decided to not help those other people, oh well...I know I would be reluctant to sail on them again.

 

Apparently you've never read what the details of Choice Air bring you. It is travel insurance to make sure you get to your cruiseship on time and if you don't then they fly you to the next port. They were honoring a legal contract and not peforming special favors like you seem to be implying. They didn't "decide" to help or not to help. The consumer made that decision for them when they purchased airfare. This is why I purchased mine through their program and not independently.