The arrest of the captain is very shocking

[USNUZULOOSE]

What!

 

Hello! How was your side for muster?

[JLC@SD]

There are two aspects of this accident I find confusing.

 

1. Did you notice in those photos how close to the waterline that gash and imbedded rock were? This is not a case of a ship drawing 26 feet finding an uncharted pinnacle 25 feet deep. I suspect we'll find that they either almost ran into shore, or at least a well charted reef.

 

2. If the impact and hull breach was on the left (port) side of the ship, how did it end up sinking right (starboard) side down?

 

Either way, this is a very sobering event.

 

These are puzzling issues, the rock that is embedded looks like it would have been only five ft below the waterline.

[RZ3]

Italian authorities have been directly quoted in several news souces saying that the Capt did not issue a mayday prior to the abandon ship decision.

 

And then there is this link to a video of the Italian Coast Guard representative. The person posting is in Italy and says there was a distress call sent. I don't speak Italian so I ave no idea who is correct. It is common practice in Italy to arrest first and ask questions later in order to preserve evidence.

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=31957785&postcount=509

[MadManOfBethesda]

Unfortunately we don't know what the term abandoning ship means.

 

Really? Which of those two words confuses you?

[Annie Morehead]

We were on a Carnival Cruise (owner of Costa) a year ago. We were SHOCKED at how bad the muster drill was!!!

 

Everyone was talking and even the staff was not taking it serious. We had been on NCL before, and muster drills were taken seriously.

[Sirkeline]

http://gfx.dagbladet.no/labrador/197/197991/19799119/jpg/active/978x.jpg

[kirsty_r]

We were on a Carnival Cruise (owner of Costa) a year ago. We were SHOCKED at how bad the muster drill was!!!

 

Everyone was talking and even the staff was not taking it serious. We had been on NCL before, and muster drills were taken seriously.

I totally agree with this. OK, in a real life situation people panic, but i cannot see how people cannot have a practical muster drill when they board a ship. I was on EPIC - yes we didn't have to turn up with our life jackets but i found the information and time taken to be so valuable, it wasn't a 5 minute thing but took 20-30 minutes.

 

Yes, lots of speculation still, was the ship off course when it struck etc etc, but lessons will be learned, when the final inquiry becomes clear.

[Jimsgirl]

On QM2 (also owned by Carnival) the muster takes place BEFORE the ship sails, and includes having your life jacket with you , during which pasengers are instructed to put these on for checking by staff.

 

It seems that each ship makes its own rules as to when they hold the muster, and the instructions that are given to passengers.

 

I am not a fan of Carnival but it does not seem that Carnival as a corporation is not responsible unless they (as the prime owner ) delayed or refused to have maintenance carried out in a timely manner.

[Jess777]

Here is what I read on aol news ANSA quoted two Italian journalists who happened to be among the passengers taking the Mediterranean cruise as saying the accident happened during dinner hour"We were dining when the lights went out, and suddenly we heard a bang and the dishes fell to the floor," ANSA quoted one of the journalist-passengers, Luciano Castro, as saying.

 

There could of been a destress signal that was gone out or attemped but the electical was down and didnt make it. I beleive it was electical malfuction that caused this disaster along with the captin not doing the lifeboat evacuation sooner. Does anyone know how long it took the ship to start to list so they couldnt launch the lifteboats. I cant find an estimated time for that all I can find is that the captin after the gash was discovered and they knew they had to abandon ship instead of abandoning ship there decided to move the ship closer to a nearby island. Sounds like a good idea except when they got to the island the ship was so listed that lifeboat evacuation was not doable.

[gentlemancruiser]

On QM2 (also owned by Carnival) the muster takes place BEFORE the ship sails, and includes having your life jacket with you , during which pasengers are instructed to put these on for checking by staff.

 

It seems that each ship makes its own rules as to when they hold the muster, and the instructions that are given to passengers.

 

I am not a fan of Carnival but it does not seem that Carnival as a corporation is not responsible unless they (as the prime owner ) delayed or refused to have maintenance carried out in a timely manner.

 

ships have 24 hours to have a muster drill. This cruise picked up passengers in several port along it's route, so you may board in Rome and have the muster drill the next day.

 

I did a similar cruise years ago with a Greek cruise lines and we had the English drill the following day after leaving Pireaus, on that cruise passengers boarded in Pireaus, Venice and Istanbul. The english muster drill was held separately from the other drills.

 

It was NOT a Carnival cruise lines issue. Carnival is only the parent company that owns the ships, everything is run by Costa's operations. Carnival Corp. also owns Cunard, HAL, Princess, P & O, Seabourn.

[Omega1]

Another interesting question is why are ships allowed to delay the safety drill 24 hours? This was the first night out and the drill was scheduled for the second day!

 

The BBC has recently broadcast an interview with a British passenger (on his honeymoon) who was rescued from the ship at 4.30 am - approx 6 hours after arriving at the muster station. He was full of praise for the crew but said that once the ship started to list heavily and the lifeboats were rendered inoperable they had no idea what to do, nor were they being instructed by officers.

 

The interviewee and his wife boarded the ship in Barcelona and for the first 24 hours a safety video was shown on cabin TVs explaining what to do in the event of an emergency - but no formal drill.

 

He stated that on this seven day cruise, passengers can embark in Rome and Savona as well as Barcelona. With the formal safety drill not scheduled until the Saturday afternoon, passengers embarking in Barcelona wait for 5 days before undertaking the drill.:confused:

 

I can concur with a previous post regarding muster drills on Costa ships in the Mediterranean. All announcements are in 5 or 6 European languages, with English being the last. By the time the announcement had been made for the third time most people were talking or even wandering off. It was impossible to hear the announcement in English.

[flag fan]

That is exactly what I heard on CNN a short while ago.

 

Maybe this is the way Italy does things -- make arrests -- and then ask questions?

 

My understanding of the legal system used on continental Europe (unlike the U.S., U.K., Canada, etc.) is that when a person is accused of a crime and arrested, an investigating judge is appointed to conduct an investigation. In the Anglo-Saxon system the individual has to do their own investigating to counter the government's charges while in Europe the government appoints an investigator indepenet of the accused and the procesutor to do the investigating. (At least that's how I recall the system was described in a course I took 30 years ago--I welcome any corrections to my understanding of how the system works.)

[CruiserWithDoubts]

It seems to me that everybody is being a little too quick to condemn the captain to prison.

 

Okay, you're the captain. We'll skip the reason for the damage, and look at your decisions just following. You see some warning lights on the bridge, you are listing 20 degrees, and the electrical power generation has stopped.

 

You don't immediately order "Abandon Ship". To do this, and risk passenger deaths and injuries from evacuating a good ship, would be a bad decision.

 

You first try to understand what has happened, and perhaps steer closer to the nearest port, just in case.

 

You dispatch crew members to inspect the hull, to see what the extent of the damage is. You look at how many flooded compartments you have, and assess the buoyancy of the ship. While this is going on, you instruct your crew to try to keep the passengers calm, and remain on board.

 

The captain didn't immediately have the image of the long gash on the hull that's flooding the news services right now. He had emergency battery/generator power, and limited warning lights and it was dark.

 

Eventually, you realize how bad the damage is, and that your bilge pumps won't be keeping up with the flooding. You then have an extensive checklist to accomplish. This checklist does have items like "notify the passengers to move to muster stations" and "make emergency radio broadcasts", but it also has items like closing watertight doors, dispatching crew members to emergency duty stations, move the ship to most advantageous evacuation location, etc.

 

How much time does this take, when the ship isn't sinking so rapidly? Hours? I don't know.

 

Why would the captain abandon ship before all of his passengers are off? Some reasons may be that he needed to coordinate actions of shore agencies to assist his evacuation and care for his passengers. I'm sure that he had good reason.

 

Now, if this captain made selfish self-preservation decisions, and was incompetent in executing his duties, then, fry him. But, somehow, I don't think that's how this investigation is going to play out.

 

I'm taking interest in reading about the facts, but don't like the instant condemnation of the captain and his crew.

[GlendaleCruiser]

According to martime law, a muster drill must be performed within 24 hours of the ship leaving port.

 

Studies have shown that on the first day passengers concentration for something like a muster drill (which is compulsary to attend) is very low, they are tired from travelling, embarkation, want to unpakc and go to dinner. The next day passengers are relaxed and the attendance will be much higher than if held the first day.

 

Ron

 

 

A shame when that drill comes TOO LATE.

[Cancruizer]

According to the Cruisecritic News, it seems the Captain was sailing where he should not have been and this likely caused the ship to hit the rock and possibly a reef that caused the gash (see below). That, given reports that passengers were not evacuated earlier while the ship could still lower most lifeboats, crew were unprepared and disorganized (poor training), no mayday call was made, that the Captain left the ship before passengers - no praise is due for "saving lives". All that he could have done wrong he did. It is just a miracle that most are safe now. Terrible for those that may still be trapped and have perished. What an awful ordeal these survivors have been through.

 

from Cruisecritic news

 

Schettino, an 11-year Costa veteran, and a fellow officer were detained for questioning and later arrested on charges of manslaughter, according to media reports. Investigators want to know why the ship never sent out a mayday, among other things. In addition, the ship was evidently sailing between the Tuscan coast and Giglio instead of in open seas, an anamoly.

[musicorn]

I can not believe that in this day and age people are believing media reports as accurate information. Historically they have always got things wrong.

 

I will reserve my judgement until all of the facts are well known.

 

At this stage I feel for the Captain as this would be his biggest nightmare. He made the decisions he made with the best intent, I am sure, maybe it just didn't work out how he hoped. Have none of us ever made a decision that turned out to be the wrong one?

 

We do not have all of the facts or the information we need to make such judgement and I always think if this was me would I want people judging me this way?

[DocF]

Someone posted the question if this was the way they do things in Italy. It seems that a prosecutor can arrest someone on suspicion.

 

This may be glory hunting on the part of the local prosecutor and it may actually be an attempt to find out what happened.

 

We do not know what happened and we are not privy to the reasoning of the local prosecutor, so all else is speculation.

 

Doc

[Grumpy100]

We have been on the Costa Magic a and on our life boat drill we had to go to our cabin and get our life jacket and go to our mister station. I believe we had already left port but no one was taking it seriously at all. Everything was in five languages and by the time you get to the last language which was English no one was paying attention at all. Very sad situation. Hopefully people will now pay attention to the drill like they should and not laugh and Joke around when. They should be listening.

[Cancruizer]

With all due respect, it would be nice if it were as simple as people should pay more attention during muster drills. Absolutely this disaster reminds us that anything can happen, even in this day and age, to "modern" cruise ships and we all should pay attention. Likewise, I would hope that cruise lines may rethink how they may be doing their muster drills to make sure passengers and staff are well informed on safety procedures. However, in this case people have reported being at their muster station in lifejackets while staff turned them away. Reports from survivors indicate that staff were not guiding people and that they were disorganized, increasing panic and risk. No matter how people (passengers) may act during a disaster, it is the crew that need to lead and take control in such a situation. It is scary to think that they themselves were so unprepared.

[Topsham]

from Cruisecritic news

 

Schettino, an 11-year Costa veteran, and a fellow officer were detained for questioning

 

In addition, the ship was evidently sailing between the Tuscan coast and Giglio instead of in open seas, an anamoly.

 

An anamoly? Don't know where they came up with that one. The ship was using an open seaway between the island and the mainland... some eight miles wide and deep water. No reason why he would not go through there. There are no laws that say that a ship cannot pass between Giglio and the mainland.

 

Taking the ship close to Giglio is another matter. What is known as "not prudent seamanship". Perfect safe though if you know all the risks but if you are unsure... don't go there. Prudent seamanship dictates that you do not put your vessel in harms way. Passing close inshore... taking the ship close to known... and possibly unknown hazzards... not best practice.

[pk1]

Although we'll have to see when all the facts come in, it seems something is quite off according to all news reports. This route is taken every week, no muster drill, captains actions questionable. Surely sad. I'll be cruising soon. We all need answers. Seems this should not happen.

[slotaddict]

Huh? You must not be the lawyer. Paralegal, maybe? The only fact is that it is a disaster for Costa. Everything else is speculation at this point.

 

I have no side in this other than to shake my head when I see such wildly erroneous posts. While some or all may eventually be proven, It is far too early to know anything with certainty. Any decent investigator ...lawyers included, know that.

 

 

Any injury on a cruise ship comes under maritime law and the cruise line can be help responsible depending on the reason for the injury...as far as I can see the captain was way off course, and yes Costa cruiseline is going to be held responsible for this occurence, so yes Im thinking major disaster for the cruiseline....it was not a wildly erroneous post...its the absolute truth..I am listening to what the passengers had to say and at this point I am not feeling sorry for the captain who abandoned the ship....

[nellydean]

Sky News: Firemen have located 2 people alive on the cruise liner, on decks above the water line. A man and a woman.

 

Police hold the captain and first officer on suspicion of multiple manslaughter and abandoning ship.

[OneOneNiner]

Sky News: Firemen have located 2 people alive on the cruise liner, on decks above the water line. A man and a woman.

 

Police hold the captain and first officer on suspicion of multiple manslaughter and abandoning ship.

 

Already proven guilty now, I guess... Trapped passengers located, while he is in custody after several interviews...

[fshagan]

An anamoly? Don't know where they came up with that one. The ship was using an open seaway between the island and the mainland... some eight miles wide and deep water. No reason why he would not go through there. There are no laws that say that a ship cannot pass between Giglio and the mainland.

 

Taking the ship close to Giglio is another matter. What is known as "not prudent seamanship". Perfect safe though if you know all the risks but if you are unsure... don't go there. Prudent seamanship dictates that you do not put your vessel in harms way. Passing close inshore... taking the ship close to known... and possibly unknown hazzards... not best practice.

 

A couple of the news reports I've read have mentioned that the captain steered toward the island after the damage in order to facilitate easier evacuation of the ship. Other reports have said he was a few miles off course, but don't indicate he was "next to" the island.