The arrest of the captain is very shocking

[rdler]

Well, it strikes me that far too many people are Carnival haters and are willing to convict the Captain of this ship based on heresay and innuendo. Plus people are basing opinions on photos from tabloid media, taken with telephoto lenses making objects appear closer.

 

I have been on many cruises. Over 11 with just Carnival and their affiliated lines. Never in any of my cruises has the ship turned over (although we did experience rough seas in Government Cut in Miami several years ago). Similarly, I have never seen the Captain in person, let alone seen him drinking with beautiful women at the bar.

 

Carnival is a responsible multi-billion dollar company. Had there been a real problem aside from outrageous allegations and accusations, I am sure Marty Arrison would have had better things to do last night than Twitter about his Miami Heat.

 

Use some common sense, Carnival Bashers!

 

And God bless all those passengers and crew who were involved in this nightmare and their worried families ashore. Let us hope this event is investigated thoroughly and appropriate changes made.

[jopocop]

You are foolish and putting your life and that of your family and friends at excessive risk.

There is ample evidence already out from multiple solid authorities that the Captain was joyridding his ship dangerously close to Giglio. Also, the Captain and his team had to know that Giglio was a wildlife preserve and nature spot with the underwater reefs filled with abundant and beautiful pristine life.

The Captain may have been on the Island after all, since he was Italian and it was a resort place. It was commonly known that the Le Scole reef was a big scuba attraction.

He ran his ship up into that reef.

That hull gash was horrendous and monumental, bigger than a torpedo blast hole.

My prior posts have not been repudiated, that the industry could monitor all of its ships from a master adm. command center, keeping GPS on the ship and in 24/7 contact with the bridge. The command center would keep tabs that the billion dollar ship and 4000-5000 people are safe at all times from all kinds of harm, as well as make sure company procedures and rules are being followed.

Why should a Captain of such mega ships have exclusive control, when with modern technology they can be supervised 24/7.

People need to stand up and be heard on this point and tell the industry to modernize with new technology for cruising in this world.

Your little babies and children are on board these ships and we adults need to think about protecting them above all!

[jopocop]

Costa Concordia rights of passengers and customers.

 

This article explains some of the rights people have to deal with the fact the Concordia is not in service and they booked it into the future.

 

Carnival is letting its customers dangle in the wind with no information about how to handle their Concordia booked trips.

 

http://www.lbc.co.uk/the-latest-lbc-presenter-blogs-4001/entry/92/8178

 

More bad PR with all of the people at Carnival and its subsidiaries--shame on them!

[guestyguestyguesty]

Very interesting route shown here:

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/interactive/2012/jan/15/costa-concordia-italian-cruise-ship-interactive?intcmp=239

[Gerrym]

Nothing that I or anyone else has said on here purports to be "proven" fact in the legal sense. Nor do I think anyone would take these discussions as legal proof. As I said, it's just what the facts are as we best know them. Pointing out that the facts could conceivably change adds nothing to the discussion. Of course they might change. Everyone knows that. But as it stands, there is a general consensus that these things happened. And that's what we're here to talk about (what happened, how, and why). If you're not interested in the discussion then why are you here? There is no such thing as absolute certainty in life, even in legal proceedings, much less on an internet chat board.

 

Thankfully you are not a judge in my country, we have a system based on evidence only being fact when proven, I had kinda hoped this would certainly be the case with this tragedy. Perhaps general consensus is enough to call it fact in the town you come from, oh well..

 

 

I hope the Captain gets fairer treatment, there is still the theory that he could actually have been a hero and saved many lives by steering the ship to shore.

I am not trying to defend the Captain as I don't actually think he is a hero, but I merely demonstrate until all the facts have been established and proven, he is an innocent man. I don't like the fact that he seems to be getting 'hanged' before any investigation has started.

 

I am interested in this discussion, I am also interested in it being factual where facts are known. If you are not interested in facts, just say so, no need for rudeness.

 

Lastly let's not forget the poor souls involved in this tragedy, I do not want to see any arguments or heated discussions break out over this, that would be madness and direspectful.

 

 

Regards

 

Gerry

[gnocchi_mommy]

Thats so stupid. Hating Carnival does not have anything to do with it. Are you defending him because you're a Carnival lover?

 

A big Carnival fan- and not a fan of this man at all.

 

Well, it strikes me that far too many people are Carnival haters and are willing to convict the Captain of this ship based on heresay and innuendo. Plus people are basing opinions on photos from tabloid media, taken with telephoto lenses making objects appear closer.

 

I have been on many cruises. Over 11 with just Carnival and their affiliated lines. Never in any of my cruises has the ship turned over (although we did experience rough seas in Government Cut in Miami several years ago). Similarly, I have never seen the Captain in person, let alone seen him drinking with beautiful women at the bar.

 

Carnival is a responsible multi-billion dollar company. Had there been a real problem aside from outrageous allegations and accusations, I am sure Marty Arrison would have had better things to do last night than Twitter about his Miami Heat.

 

Use some common sense, Carnival Bashers!

 

And God bless all those passengers and crew who were involved in this nightmare and their worried families ashore. Let us hope this event is investigated thoroughly and appropriate changes made.

[jopocop]

The official cruise line news conference stated that the Captain did wander off course in an unauthorized way.

They are telling the obvious, because, the ship wound up on the Giglio port beach immediately after hitting Le Scole scuba reef rocks.

The Captain hung himself already by saying he thought he was 300m from rocks on his chart. He was suppose to be 2-4 km from the rocks at a minimum, even if off course on his joy ride.

My main point besides the obvious about the Captain's culpability, is that the Cruise Industry at large now needs to 24-7 monitor each cruise ship by GPS tracking and constant remote control TV and audio monitoring of the bridge.

This is what President Obama, for example was doing when Bin Laden was being captured. In today's technology world, it is easily allowable to have cruise line headquarters or command center monitor each ship and overhear all conservations ongoing in the bridge, to make sure of safefty.

All logs and written navigation are watched back at the command center.

This is important even more than this kind of situation, but is to maintain compliance with cruise line protocols and rules, as well as deal with any possible terrorist or other emergencies that happen, such as a fire.

The cruise line command center can observe how the bridge deals with the emergency that occurs and understands the situation and contributes and deals with it prudently.

This multi billion dollar industry has not wanted to update such technology for the same old story, saving money at the cost of lives or safety and compliances.

I say the only way there will be changes will be the public and customers speaking out and boycotting to force changes for the good of the public.

[cmaygar]

3. Do you have any actual proof ?

 

4. Once they were on board they had the papers in order to be on the board. The fact that their training was bull**** it's different.

 

5. Well they all got on shore didn't they ? If they weren't notified they would have been dead now.

 

6. Crew couldn't predict how long they will have until the ship would incline.

 

7. Do you have any actual proof ?

 

8. Most of the passengers are safe. Their attention needs to be focused on the other passengers that might be onboard. They don't have the authority to issue passports or do miracles for the passengers already on shore. Local embassies must assist it's citizen with legal support. What would you expect that Costa will deliver H&M vouchers to each individual on ship ? They don't have the manpower to do that, other passengers are onboard of other ships in their fleet and need to be safe as well.

 

 

See the eyewitness reports from the passengers and the very telling videos that many of them shot. Costa itself came out today and indicted that the accident was due to significant human error due to the Captain sailing on an unauthorized route far too close to shore.

 

I love cruising as much as anyone on this blog, but it astounds me that so many people will disregard all of the obvious facts that show reckless disregard for the passengers and defend a Captain and cruiseline that so obviously failed its passengers and the actionsof the Captain managed to kill at least 6 passengers. The accident was 100% avoidable if the Captain just sailed the authorized route. The aftermath of his gross negligence showed a totally unprepared crew and no leadership from the Captain that resulted in the inability to abandon ship in an organized fashion. Lack of a mandatory muster station drill is also quite astonishing.

 

There are at least 6 passengers dead for goodness sake. How can any of you defend the actions of this Captain? The survivors are also very upset with Costa's lack of helping them in any way. This is a horrible story with lives lost and the survivors went through a horrible experience.

[H82seaUgo]

See the eyewitness reports from the passengers and the very telling videos that many of them shot. Costa itself came out today and indicted that the accident was due to significant human error due to the Captain sailing on an unauthorized route far too close to shore.

 

I love cruising as much as anyone on this blog, but it astounds me that so many people will disregard all of the obvious facts that show reckless disregard for the passengers and defend a Captain and cruiseline that so obviously failed its passengers and the actionsof the Captain managed to kill at least 6 passengers. The accident was 100% avoidable if the Captain just sailed the authorized route. The aftermath of his gross negligence showed a totally unprepared crew and no leadership from the Captain that resulted in the inability to abandon ship in an organized fashion. Lack of a mandatory muster station drill is also quite astonishing.

 

There are at least 6 passengers dead for goodness sake. How can any of you defend the actions of this Captain? The survivors are also very upset with Costa's lack of helping them in any way. This is a horrible story with lives lost and the survivors went through a horrible experience.

 

kinda reminds me of the protests and support of the pathetic staff at penn state.

[cmaygar]

Exactly! Now that Costa is pointing the finger of liability directly at the Captain for "significant human error", it should be clear that the Captain ran the ship aground by disregarding his approved navigation route and "joyriding" with a 1,250 foot ship with 4,500 passengers and crew dangerously close to a known reef. I can't believe that anyone would be so reckless as to completely disregard his duties as a Captain and place the passengers and crew in deadly jeopardy.

 

One death on a cruise ship, caused by running a ship aground in the 21st century, is 1 death too many because of advanced navigation data that should preclude such a thing from happening. Neither the Captain nor Costa is indicating that any system error occurred. The Captain admitted to going off course on purpose. Some reports indicate that this Captain routinely went off course to try to show the passengers a close view of the Giglio island so it's unclear why Costa did not halt this dangerous behavior the first time the Captain diverted from his approved route. Unbelievable.

[Spaniel Lover]

The Corriere della Sera ("Evening Courier") is among the oldest and most reputable Italian newspapers. They've published a fascinating article about the Captain's actions.

 

They describe a "sail past" maneuver involving making an intentional close pass by the island of Giglio, as both a salute to a retired Costa commander that lives on the island and also as a surprise for the Concordia's head steward, who used to live on the island. The article states that the steward, Antonello Tievoli, was called up to the bridge (very unusual for a steward, even the head steward) so that he could witness the ship performing a "bow"... the term that sailors use to describe sailing past some place for the benefit of a crew member.

 

Regarding the former Costa commander who lives on Giglio island... they identify him as Mario Palombo, and say he's "a legend among Costa Crociere’s commanders". He retired from Costa in 2006, after a heart attack. The article says that when he used to command a Costa ship, he would have the ship do a "bow" when it passed the small Italian fishing village of Camogli. And ironically, last Friday when the Costa Concordia was doing a bow to him as it hit a rock off shore of Giglio, he wasn't even on the island.

 

Read the full article here. The first five paragraphs focus on rescue efforts... and starting with paragraph six they get in to the stuff about the "bow" and the steward being on the bridge at the time of the collision.

[reefisher]

Exactly! Now that Costa is pointing the finger of liability directly at the Captain for "significant human error", it should be clear that the Captain ran the ship aground by disregarding his approved navigation route and "joyriding" with a 1,250 foot ship with 4,500 passengers and crew dangerously close to a known reef. I can't believe that anyone would be so reckless as to completely disregard his duties as a Captain and place the passengers and crew in deadly jeopardy.

 

One death on a cruise ship, caused by running a ship aground in the 21st century, is 1 death too many because of advanced navigation data that should preclude such a thing from happening. Neither the Captain nor Costa is indicating that any system error occurred. The Captain admitted to going off course on purpose. Some reports indicate that this Captain routinely went off course to try to show the passengers a close view of the Giglio island so it's unclear why Costa did not halt this dangerous behavior the first time the Captain diverted from his approved route. Unbelievable.

 

You have absolutely nailed it. And the BIG question is why did not the company (Costa) reprimand him (the captain) for this behavior in the past. And instead of a reprimand he gets a letter of thanks from the mayor of the island when he did it in the past. Actually I don't know if received a reprimand or not, but if he did it must not have made an impression.

[ODA 564]

If we are going to quote facts, please let's keep it to the facts and not mix it up with opinion or hearsay.

 

Actually, it appears to be a fact that the Captain (Francesco Schettino) departed the vessel at 12:30 AM (mistakenly quoted as 1230 PM in one news report, but 30 minutes after midnight or 0030 is in th AM).

 

The last passengers came off at 6:0o AM (0600).

 

There are three eyewitnesses, two of whom were trained observers (a French military office Ophelie Gondelle and and her husband, a police officer David Du Pays). And the senior Italian prosecutor assigned o the case has confirmed it.

 

This is also confirmed by Italian Corpo delle Capitanerie di porto - Guardia costiera (Coast Guard) officials who saw him ashore while passengers ere still coming off - specifically Commander Francesco Paolillo (link).

 

The honor and reputation built during a life can vanish in one poor decision.

 

I understand that most of the world ignores that concept in business and politics, but it is true.

 

The Captain's statement is his statement, but it is not fact. Fact is the totality of the record, including proven events.

 

Costa is itself blaming the Captain (but that could be typical corporate BS - link).

[desertr0se]

We have sailed on Costa before & love the cruiseline.

It is shocking to hear that a captain would abandon his ship like that.

I thought that only happened in story books.

 

 

I read the captain left the ship around 12:30AM and the last passenger didn't leave until 6AM. This is not good, IF it's true.

[jopocop]

These last posts are up to speed with posters finally coming to grips that this was a major criminal mess up by the Captain and his officers in the bridge, both in the joyridding and aftermath. Also, I am very upset, outraged, by the careless Cruise Industry in not advancing to 21st Century with real time GPS and Bridge monitoring via TV and computer.

If I am on a cruise ship, I want the Cruise Line to have a command center that is staffed 24/7 and watching over its ships at all times. At the command center, they can watch everything on board that the bridge can watch, plus watch the bridge.

Why should we and our family, precious little children, be subject to the whims and command of a Captain that goes ballistic or crazy or drunk or whatever he chooses. It makes no sense that in the modern era, a Cruise Ship functions like a 19th century transit passenger or cargo ship.

I hope more posters on this forum protest and demand improvements in this way, which seems inevitable anyway. Why wait, and demand that the entire world wide Cruise Industry update to current technology to monitor and control all of their ships.

[Gerrym]

See the eyewitness reports from the passengers and the very telling videos that many of them shot. Costa itself came out today and indicted that the accident was due to significant human error due to the Captain sailing on an unauthorized route far too close to shore.

 

I love cruising as much as anyone on this blog, but it astounds me that so many people will disregard all of the obvious facts that show reckless disregard for the passengers and defend a Captain and cruiseline that so obviously failed its passengers and the actionsof the Captain managed to kill at least 6 passengers. The accident was 100% avoidable if the Captain just sailed the authorized route. The aftermath of his gross negligence showed a totally unprepared crew and no leadership from the Captain that resulted in the inability to abandon ship in an organized fashion. Lack of a mandatory muster station drill is also quite astonishing.

 

There are at least 6 passengers dead for goodness sake. How can any of you defend the actions of this Captain? The survivors are also very upset with Costa's lack of helping them in any way. This is a horrible story with lives lost and the survivors went through a horrible experience.

 

I don't necessarily think it is about defending the actions of the Captain, it is more about defending one's right to a fair trial. We are all entitled to our opinions but the facts may well be different to the journalists versions of events. For example, read some of the crew accounts. Not saying they are fact, but that is just it, we don't know the facts....yet.

[7Flags]

I wonder how many lives he saved by grounding the ship? What if it had actually sunk, even in shallow water?

[Aus Traveller]

I wonder how many lives he saved by grounding the ship? What if it had actually sunk, even in shallow water?

It is likely fewer lives were lost because the ship was grounded - but the question still remains - what was the real cause of the emergency? If it was caused by sailing too close to the island for a frivolous reason, then the captain is fully to blame.

 

I have read a report (as others would have) from a crew member that said they got all 4,000 people off safely in two hours and she felt they should be commended for that. However, going on all reports, her statements are totally incorrect. (yes - she is obviously traumatised as are the passengers.) It took six to seven hours for everyone to get off, many had to jump to get themselves off, and (sadly) some never got off. Quite a different story.

[Hunwolf]

I don't necessarily think it is about defending the actions of the Captain, it is more about defending one's right to a fair trial. We are all entitled to our opinions but the facts may well be different to the journalists versions of events. For example, read some of the crew accounts. Not saying they are fact, but that is just it, we don't know the facts....yet.

 

Fair trial in Italy? He had a better chance of drilling that iceberg.

[mheslop]

Captain abandoned ship before all crew and passengers were accounted for. They are still not all accounted for. Ergo....a FACT, not conjecture. He should still be there..until it sinks or the search for survivors is called off.

 

If a mayday was not HEARD, then it was NOT sent. Fact, not conjecture.

[ghstudio]

Captain abandoned ship before all crew and passengers were accounted for. They are still not all accounted for. Ergo....a FACT, not conjecture. He should still be there..until it sinks or the search for survivors is called off.

 

If a mayday was not HEARD, then it was NOT sent. Fact, not conjecture.

 

The captain does not have to stay on the ship until every passenger is accounted for....I don't know the specific law, but at some point the captain can leave the ship. The fact that all are not accounted for does not mean the captain should still be on the ship. So...not a fact.

 

There are many reasons a radio transmission can be sent and not received...until you know that it actually was sent or you have a record that it was not sent, you do not know. If there was a power failure/surge, a transmitter might have burned out, etc.

 

You are rushing to judgement based on no factual information....which might have been great in the wild wild old west, but today we actually can get facts. When we have facts, feel free to judge. Until then, just keep following the story and try to figure out which of the six places where the captain was reported to be at the same time is right...try to figure out the course the ship took (there are two courses suggested by the news and other sources), etc.

[njhh]

Cruise Critic needs to update it format to allow us to click 'LIKE LIKE LIKE" In short, great post.

[OneOneNiner]

... just keep following the story and try to figure out which of the six places where the captain was reported to be at the same time is right...try to figure out the course the ship took (there are two courses suggested by the news and other sources), etc.

 

The course of the ship is made public already and confirmed by the authorities after looking at the data from the black box.

 

There is a video showing the captain on the pier while the rescue boats arrive... the early ones... and there are no passengers yet on the pier...

 

 

Fact: The captain DID leave his ship way too early and as reported by the port authority he refused going back and didn't even know what's happeneing on his ship at this point.

Fact: The course was way too close too shore and illegal.

[CycleGirl1]

Just as the sinking of the Titanic caused fundamental changes in safety standards for cruise ships. I hope that this tragedy serves as a catalyst for fundamental change. Apparently, there are bridge officers who don't seem to take safety and duty as seriously we assumed they did. Imagine being entrusted with the lives of over 4000 and abusing that responsibility by showing off?

 

Furthermore, while we may not expect the captain to literally "go down with the ship" shouldn't we expect him to at least remain in command while hundreds or even thousands of passengers remain on board and are boarding lifeboats? Shouldn't we expect the bridge officers to make a reasonable effort to see to the safety of the passengers and crew first and then to their own - within reason?

 

Certainly, here in the USA, we have a tradition of "innocent until proven guilty" and I believe in that, but the preponderance of evidence against the captain at this point is overwhelming. Not even Costa Cruise Lines nor Carnival Corp. are defending him. And, I don't think that you can argue that it is in their financial interest to "throw him under the bus." They would much rather that the whole thing had been a freak accident and that the captain had been a hero. The corporation will pay the financial cost of any recklessness on the part of it's employees.

[TVMet]

I wonder how many lives he saved by grounding the ship? What if it had actually sunk, even in shallow water?

 

Good question, I read a post from a mariner who said the ship being grounded in shallow water might have been the reason she capsized. A ship that size can't remain upright in such shallow water with a belly full of water moving around. It was a bad situation, but they guy thought if he had kept her in slightly deeper water, she might have just settled down right there, staying more upright.