Costa Concordia Unrecoverable

[cdamion]

Not so fast.

 

If it is determined that there was a criminal act by the officer(s) then the insurer can invoke the criminal act clause and refuse payment of all claims related to the incident.

 

Passengers with travel insurance will be able to submit a claim with them.

 

Passengers with decent homeowners cover might be able to file a claim against that, subject to deductible.

 

Of course all claims will be based on depreciated value, not replacement value, regardless. So if you had a mink coat and a suitcase full of designer duds that cost you $30K at a chi-chi boutique, you're probably looking at a check for maybe $6K--if you're lucky.

 

Never said it would be at 100-cents on the dollar. As far as the $30k of clothes, unless they were specifically insured like some pieces of jewelry are, good luck getting anything close to that. Travel insurance is going to have pretty low limits on the luggage too.

 

With respect to the criminal acts clause, it is not so cut and dry. I assure you that the insurance carriers' attorneys are already pouring through the policy language to find exclusions - besides criminal clauses, there may be other reasons to exclude various parts of coverage. The insurance angle will not be settled for years - it'll still be going on long after people have forgotten about the incident.

[Tutankhamen]

I can't imagine that they don't carry business interruption cover that would handle the loss of income.

 

.

CCL does not carry insurance to cover lost revenue or earnings from its ships or other operations, according to its most recent 10-K.

 

Respectfully yours,

 

-Tutankhamen

[Tutankhamen]

there are pics of damage of her starboard side

 

Do you have a link?

 

Respectfully yours,

 

-Tutankhamen

[ducklite]

Never said it would be at 100-cents on the dollar. As far as the $30k of clothes, unless they were specifically insured like some pieces of jewelry are, good luck getting anything close to that. Travel insurance is going to have pretty low limits on the luggage too.

 

With respect to the criminal acts clause, it is not so cut and dry. I assure you that the insurance carriers' attorneys are already pouring through the policy language to find exclusions - besides criminal clauses, there may be other reasons to exclude various parts of coverage. The insurance angle will not be settled for years - it'll still be going on long after people have forgotten about the incident.

 

I responded to you about this on the other thread. I reference September 11 and the speed in which the primary insurers announced they would not invoke the act of war clause. Chubb was first, less than six hours after the first plane hit.

[Host Mick]

Purely speculation at this point.

Remember that of all of the Battleships that were sunk at Peark harbor, all but two returned to service. Marine salvors can do amazing things.

A replacement ship is in the $500 million range. You can do a lot of repairs to a waterlogged hull for less than that.

[Host Mick]

I really hope some effort will be made to reunite passengers and crew with their personal belongings but I wouldn't hold my breath... :(

 

(No basis for this) but I suspect she'll be salvaged, completely redone, and transferred to another Carnival Corp. subsidiary (perhaps in Australia or somewhere else a distance away from Italy). I'd feel very confident saying that nobody will ever again sail on Costa Concordia as "Costa Concordia."

 

The Exxon Valdez was repaired and renamed Seariver Mediterranean and moved out of the Alaska trade to avoid protests and bad press. She is now an ore carrier named Dong Feng Ocean.

[CruiseAdict218]

The Exxon Valdez was repaired and renamed Seariver Mediterranean and moved out of the Alaska trade to avoid protests and bad press. She is now an ore carrier named Dong Feng Ocean.

 

Interesting point, but this is a cruise ship, do you think if the change her name and apperance would people still sail on her? I dont think they can hide the ship with out people knowing, you know what I mean?

[Tutankhamen]

Purely speculation at this point.

Remember that of all of the Battleships that were sunk at Peark harbor, all but two returned to service. Marine salvors can do amazing things.

A replacement ship is in the $500 million range. You can do a lot of repairs to a waterlogged hull for less than that.

 

I do agree. It certainly can be done, but at what cost? It will boil down to the insured value of the ship vs cost of a full refurbishment. Even if the insurance company deems it a total loss, it could still very well be bought and refurbished.

 

For argument sake, I will throw this in the mix as a plausible scenario: Lets say the ship has an insured value of 400 Million. To refurbish the grand lady costs 300 Million. Is it possible, or in the best interest for Costa/CCL to take the 300 Million (sell or scrap the ship) and just eat the rest in order to try and wash their hands of the ugly stain this ship will leave?

 

I guess the question is, what value will the ship have to ANY cruise operator considering the horrific, deadly accident that will forever be associated with the ship?

 

I still say she will not sail again under and CCL brand.

 

If she does sail once again, I bet she will be something other then a cruise ship.

 

Respectfully yours,

 

-Tutankhamen

[tntornadox]

Interesting point, but this is a cruise ship, do you think if the change her name and apperance would people still sail on her? I dont think they can hide the ship with out people knowing, you know what I mean?

 

Sure they can, there are what? 20 or so ships that look almost identical to this one currently plying the waters under the Costa or Carnival funnels? Your average general public would never know the difference, cruise enthusiasts would, but not your average Joe cruiser.

[CruiseAdict218]

Sure they can, there are what? 20 or so ships that look almost identical to this one currently plying the waters under the Costa or Carnival funnels? Your average general public would never know the difference, cruise enthusiasts would, but not your average Joe cruiser.

 

Ahhh right, kinda forgot about her sister, lol

[tntornadox]

Not just her sister ships, all the Carnival Destiny/Conquest/Splendor and Costa Fortuna/Concordia classes look nearly identical to Joe P. Cruiser, they'd never know the difference.

[CruiseAdict218]

I wonder if they will shuffle the fleet or do what Louis did and bring in a temporary ship. Or plain cancel.?

[Activated95b]

If the insurers indemnify Carnival Corp's losses, then the ship will be sent to Alang for scrapping.

 

You can rest assured that Carnival Corps' bean counters are working on ways to avoid the lose of income and prevent CCL's shares to dive on Tuesday.

 

A message of abject sympathy from the missing Micky Arison might be a good idea.

 

Perhaps he is otherwise employed?

 

I expect that Carnival Plc. is going to try to remain in hte background in order to protect their other brands. I expect that any reporter's questions will be refered to Costa.

[ducklite]

I do agree. It certainly can be done, but at what cost? It will boil down to the insured value of the ship vs cost of a full refurbishment. Even if the insurance company deems it a total loss, it could still very well be bought and refurbished.

 

For argument sake, I will throw this in the mix as a plausible scenario: Lets say the ship has an insured value of 400 Million. To refurbish the grand lady costs 300 Million. Is it possible, or in the best interest for Costa/CCL to take the 300 Million (sell or scrap the ship) and just eat the rest in order to try and wash their hands of the ugly stain this ship will leave?

 

I guess the question is, what value will the ship have to ANY cruise operator considering the horrific, deadly accident that will forever be associated with the ship?

 

I still say she will not sail again under and CCL brand.

 

If she does sail once again, I bet she will be something other then a cruise ship.

 

Respectfully yours,

 

-Tutankhamen

 

My money is on the insurance paying the insured value and then selling the ship to either a very low end line or an upstart for what they can get. I agree that it will not sail flagged under any CCL brand again.

[tntornadox]

Costa will be taking delivery of Costa Fascinosa, another Concordia class vessel, in May. Their fleet will return to normal very soon, they also have another vessel currently under construction as well.

[CruiseAdict218]

Costa will be taking delivery of Costa Fascinosa, another Concordia class vessel, in May. Their fleet will return to normal very soon, they also have another vessel currently under construction as well.

 

Has Fascinosa's schdule been released yet? and the next ship is a Dream-class one I believe.

 

*edit* Its only two ships not three

[tntornadox]

It looks like Costa Fascinosa will be doing mostly 7 night cruises departing from Venice, touring the Greek isles before returning. She does a few 10 night and 4 nighters as well.

[CruiseAdict218]

It looks like Costa Fascinosa will be doing mostly 7 night cruises departing from Venice, touring the Greek isles before returning. She does a few 10 night and 4 nighters as well.

 

Oh okay

[WillieD13]

Would you sail on a ship that had already sunk once?

Ask the men who served on the USS Nevada, USS West Virginia, USS California, USS Tennessee, and USS Maryland, all of which were sunk at Pearl Harbor, raised, and served until the end of WWII.

[CASHIPman]

Sure they can, there are what? 20 or so ships that look almost identical to this one currently plying the waters under the Costa or Carnival funnels? Your average general public would never know the difference, cruise enthusiasts would, but not your average Joe cruiser.

 

I agree...for example the MV Athena which still sails today was the Stockholm which struck the Andrea Doria. I wonder how many passengers on the Athena know that fact.

[IndyDenise]

From the Uk Independent:

 

 

The ship was insured for €405m (£335m) with around a dozen companies, led by the XL Group, which operates in the Lloyd's of London market. Britain's RSA Insurance and Italy's Generali are also on the hook. RSA's exposure is thought to be for less than €10m. Aon was the insurance broker.

Carnival's cover includes hull and machine insurance as well as protection and indemnity cover for crew and passenger injuries, shipwrecks, damage to third parties and pollution. However, it has in the past, like many large companies, chosen to self-insure part of its cover – effectively taking on the risk itself. Filings last year suggest it did not have cover for the loss of revenues from an incident like the Concordia disaster.

[bahrain_not_dubai!]

This from CARNIVAL CORPORATION:

 

 

"In accordance with financial disclosure requirements, the company provides the following information: The company has insurance coverage for damage to the vessel with a deductible of approximately $30 million as well as insurance for third party personal injury liability subject to an additional deductible of approximately $10 million for this incident. The company self-insures for loss of use of the vessel.

 

A damage assessment review of the vessel is currently being undertaken to determine how long it will be out of service. The vessel is expected to be out of service for the remainder of our current fiscal year if not longer. For the fiscal year ending November 30, the impact to 2012 earnings for loss of use is expected to be approximately $85-$95 million or $0.11-$0.12 per share. In addition, the company anticipates other costs to the business that are not possible to determine at this time."

 

 

That shows that they ARE going to attempt and put her back into service- otherwise they wouldn't be talking about how long she'll be out of service for, would they ?

[ducklite]

That shows that they ARE going to attempt and put her back into service- otherwise they wouldn't be talking about how long she'll be out of service for, would they ?

 

I read it more like "we're not making money on this boat--or it's replacement--for at least a year" as opposed to making a statement that they are planning on getting her back into service.

[katkell]

Doesn't look good at all

 

FEARS rose of an environmental disaster from a wrecked cruise ship in an area of outstanding natural beauty in Italy today as bad weather brought rescue work to a halt amid choppy seas.

"This is an ecological timebomb," Sergio Ortelli, mayor of the picturesque Tuscan island where the luxury Costa Concordia liner hit underwater rocks and keeled over on Friday with more than 4200 passengers and crew aboard.

Ortelli said there were 2380 tons of fuel on the ship. "This is the second worry after human lives," he said, as crews began putting down anti-spill booms.

"I hope that the fuel can be taken off the ship soon and maybe the ship can be removed too because it is hampering navigation," he said.

"We are monitoring constantly but there has been no spill so far," he added.

However, Rodolfo Raiteri, the head of the coastguard diving teams searching for survivors, said the ship had shifted nine centimetres (four inches) and the divers had been called off for the time being.

Fifteen people were still feared trapped in the wreckage after the disaster which left at least six dead.

Famous for its sandy beaches and rustic charm, Giglio is a major holiday destination in the summer when the population swells from around 800 permanent residents to some 5,000 people and is dotted with exclusive villas.

The island is also a major marine sanctuary and popular for whale-spotting.

Local officials are calling for new rules imposing strict limits on navigation in the area and in particular an end to the practice of "showboating" when cruise ships file past close to the island.

The owner of the ship, Costa Cruises, has been instructed by coastguards "to remove the wreck of the ship and avoid any spill of oil into the sea," said Filippo Marini, head of the local coastguard press office.

"We are putting in place booms right now but so far there hasn't been any leak. There is maximum attention on the environmental problem. We are all working together to resolve this as soon as possible," he said.

Representatives of two ship salvage companies, US-based Titan Salvage and Netherlands-based Smit -- the biggest European player in the industry, were already on the island waiting for a contract to begin operations.

One of the men, who declined to be named, said the contract could run into the millions of euros but that the process of pumping fuel out of the tanks could only start later this week after all the equipment is in place.

He also said the actual removal of the ship could take weeks and excluded the possibility that it could be cut up on site but said the details of how exactly the 114,500-tonne wreck could be taken off the shore were confidential.

"They've been phenomenally lucky there's been no spill. If the hole in the hull had been four or five metres further along it would have punctured the tanks," he said after a series of meetings with local port authorities.

"The conditions are still okay. We have to move as soon as possible before the weather gets worse," he said, as the wind picked up on Monday for the first time since the accident, making for choppy conditions at sea.

"It's very close to the edge of much deeper water," said the man, explaining that the waves could push it off its resting place and it could sink entirely.

The salvage company representative explained that the fuel pumped out would be replaced by water in the tanks to ensure that the ship remained stable and said there was minimal risk of spillage during the pumping operation.

Environment Minister Corrado Clini meanwhile said that the environmental risk has been "our nightmare."

"The vessel has reservoirs full of fuel, it is a heavy diesel which could sink down to the seabed, that would be a disaster," he said.

In a worst-case scenario, the fuel could "leak into the sea, contaminating an exceptional coastline and affecting marine and bird life," he warned.

"We are ready to intervene if there is a spill," Clini said. "As soon as possible, the fuel will be removed from the vessel. But we have to take into account the precarious state of the ship."

 

 

Read more: http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/warnings-of-wrecks-ecological-timebomb/story-e6frfku0-1226245917330#ixzz1jd4UArfV

[gtalum]

Would you sail on a ship that had already sunk once?

 

Everyone who has sailed on NCL's Pride of America has sailed on a ship that once sunk. ;)