Costa Concordia Unrecoverable

[Tonka's Skipper]

STX France has no major cruise ship orders at the moment, their last was Norwegian Epic. And they have drydocks large enough to accommodate the Concordia.

 

My point was, there are other shipyards in Europe, one is bound to have space for her if she makes it that far. Fincantieri alone has what? Four yards in Italy?

 

 

According to thier own site the STX France just signned a order for 2 more large cruise ships, they didnt say who.But lets just say..you have a yard...........you still need 2 or 3 years to plan , design, due advance biulding, order form sub contractors for all the engines, eqiupment etc..............and you still have not addressed the massive strutural damage and rutting the entire vessel!

 

AKK

[jayoldschool]

When the ships are built, assembled from large parts really, big mechanical parts are installed and then the rest of the ship is built around them. Replacing an engine the size of a semi trailer with ship all around it is no small feat.

 

That said, if they pull it off I would sail on her.

 

To see how it's done, watch World's Toughest Fixes, Season One, Episode 7.

[tntornadox]

It's happened relatively recently then, that was part of the problem with the Epic delivery, they had no more orders on the books so the workers began creating problems of their own...

 

I still have no doubt, if needed a shipyard could be found in Europe.

[Tonka's Skipper]

It's happened relatively recently then, that was part of the problem with the Epic delivery, they had no more orders on the books so the workers began creating problems of their own...

 

I still have no doubt, if needed a shipyard could be found in Europe.

 

 

Well fair enough my new friend....we will have to agree to disagree...................we will sse what happens..meet up on a cruise and the loser buys the 1st round!.*G*

 

AKK

[shipfriend_max]

I don't hope that the ship will be scrapped - I also think that they would achieve to repair it, even it takes a lot of time, but it's faster to built a completely new ship. Well, it would be difficult, but what would be impossible to salvage the ship?

 

It cannot remian there where it is now!

 

Also I watched the weather forecast for Giglio and I think there will be only rain - no storm as expected before... ;)

http://www.weather.com/weather/wxdetail/ITLZ1325?dayNum=1

 

So I think there are possibilities to salvage the ship - be optimistic! ;)

[tntornadox]

Well fair enough my new friend....we will have to agree to disagree...................we will sse what happens..meet up on a cruise and the loser buys the 1st round!.*G*

 

AKK

 

haha, you're on! ;)

[Tonka's Skipper]

I don't hope that the ship will be scrapped - I also think that they would achieve to repair it, even it takes a lot of time, but it's faster to built a completely new ship. Well, it would be difficult, but what would be impossible to salvage the ship?

 

It cannot remian there where it is now!

 

Also I watched the weather forecast for Giglio and I think there will be only rain - no storm as expected before... ;)

http://www.weather.com/weather/wxdetail/ITLZ1325?dayNum=1

 

So I think there are possibilities to salvage the ship - be optimistic! ;)

 

 

 

She will be floated, the question is if the damage and logestics will make it impossble to refit her.............there is good opinion on both sides.

 

I know I think it will be scrapped..but this is a old Merchant Mariner here...........I would love to see her sail again.........that easy old thing about sailors and love affairs with ships.;)

 

 

Please back read you will see the discussion.

 

 

AKK

[frqttrvlr09]

I believe Carnival did not insure this ship for business interruption coverage.

 

Th Exxon Valdez did eventually sail to and carry oil again from Alaska after it went around off Valdez, albeit under a different name, and with a double hull. It was a huge controversy in Alaska. It was not, however, a passenger ship so the issues of whether someone would choose to sail a refitted and renamed Concordia is a different issue. It's likely an issue of how superstitious you are.

[kruzerci]

I would love to see her sail again.........that easy old thing about sailors and love affairs with ships.;)

 

AKK

 

Isn't that the truth ;)

[ehfl]

My money is on recovery. Given the age of the asset vs its expected life, I think they will refloat it and send it to dry dock for repairs. A brand new ship sank to the third deck while still at the ship yard and they finished it.

If you patch the damage, which is now out of the water and displace the water with large "balloons" wouldn't it right itself ? With a hundred ships, does Carnival Corp. self-insure the asset up to a high level ? Just thinking.

 

I've seen some proposals on the web for refloating her. It's a long shot at best.

 

If it were totally submerged, it would be easier. But half-exposed an laying on it's side, it's possible....maybe likely, that there is severe structural damage. Ships are not designed to support such lateral forces. Cruise ships are especially fragile. They are designed for light duty. They're not ice-breakers with strong keels.

 

If the internal structures in the ship are warped, it's unlikely that it can be repaired.

 

We only know about the hole that's visible on the surface. We don't yet know what the bottom looks like, and the starboard side is on the rocks so we don't know how many holes or what size they are on that side.

[sail2sea]

Wonder how much more expensive is it to build a new sister ship from scratch than to salvage Concordia? Which one is more cost effective for Carnival Corp and Costa?

[Donut23]

It will be a challenge but she will sail again.

 

The hull damage will be patched and the ship will be drained of seawater and towed to the shipyard.

 

Fixing her will be a big job but less cost than a new build.

 

I'm not a Costa fan so I would probably never sail on her....not so sure I would feel comfortable anyway.

 

How many of you have sailed on the Monarch of the Seas in the last 15 years or so? You know she hit a reef in Phillipsburg harbor and the Captain beached her there to prevent her further sinking....but she partially sunk. She was patched, floated and towed to a shipyard for repair. The damage was far less than this accident....but she was returned to service about 4 months later.

 

I was a TA at the time and had 4 couples onboard with honeymooners to board the next week.

 

RCI eventually returned all guests belongings about 3 weeks later.

[berkberk]

Having a background in Risk Management and Insurance and exposure to the re-insurance market of Lloyds, here's my thought on the response to this...

 

There is no way in HECK Costa would have been allowed to take responsibility publicly of their Captain making a "GRAVE HUMAN ERROR" unless legal cleared that! That was a calculated legal response at placing blame to the Captain, and trying to thwart what they know is coming to place blame on the company. You NEVER go out and say something like this unless you are trying to reassess blame AWAY from yourself.

 

Given some of the 'off the chart courses" that have been published as taken prior with this cruise, we've seen prior "drive bys" to the island on the way to their destination. Costa is trying to get in front of things by saying "this is NOT SOMETHING we endorse nor is it on our schedule (cough, but we looked the other way because it was great for publicity and shock value, but of course we didn't endorse it as standard practice even though it's happened more than once!).

 

Now they are trying to say, BAD, BAD, BAD Captain for going off course (and honestly, he's a douche and asshat for abandoning ship... but what do you expect from a captain who was trying to show boat and getting his ego stroked? He was probably praised and didn't get his hand slapped the 1st time he did it and got away with it?)!!!"

 

Costa wants to say publicly say "human error", bad captain, let me show you how bad he is! Hang him... and quite frankly his actions of falling off the ship into a lifeboat, well, he deserves to have legal sanctions brought against him to the most serious degree. BUT, Don't let Costa get off scott free!!! If Costa has allowed this behavior before, and is now trying to play dumb immediately (which it seems like they are trying to do), they will have some serious issues down the road publicly with press and MORE IMPORTANTLY with their insurers.

 

There is NO REASON to admit fault of the Captain unless you know as a company you've played loosey goosy and are looking for a fall guy. Frankly, the fact they immediately came out to blame the captain for grave human errors in navigation tells me they F*&*ed up and let him get away with it... they are looking for a fall guy! I'm afraid when the chips fall, they will be found at fault as a company in addition to the coward Captain they employed. Corporate spin can only do so much to remove the fact they endorsed the show boating in the past that lead to this tragedy! And there's where the big boys fall!

[Tutankhamen]

It will be a challenge but she will sail again.

 

The hull damage will be patched and the ship will be drained of seawater and towed to the shipyard.

 

Fixing her will be a big job but less cost than a new build.

 

I'm not a Costa fan so I would probably never sail on her....not so sure I would feel comfortable anyway.

 

How many of you have sailed on the Monarch of the Seas in the last 15 years or so? You know she hit a reef in Phillipsburg harbor and the Captain beached her there to prevent her further sinking....but she partially sunk. She was patched, floated and towed to a shipyard for repair. The damage was far less than this accident....but she was returned to service about 4 months later.

 

I was a TA at the time and had 4 couples onboard with honeymooners to board the next week.

 

RCI eventually returned all guests belongings about 3 weeks later.

 

Donut23,

 

A very good morning to you and yours!

 

Here is a video of Monarch Of The Seas grounded. There are also a few pics of the damage.

 

You stated it took 4 months to do the repairs. If it took 4 months to repair that ship, It seems feasible that it would take 2-3 years to repair the Costa Concordia.

 

Respectfully yours,

 

-Tutankhamen

[Tonka's Skipper]

It will be a challenge but she will sail again.

 

The hull damage will be patched and the ship will be drained of seawater and towed to the shipyard.

 

Fixing her will be a big job but less cost than a new build.

 

I'm not a Costa fan so I would probably never sail on her....not so sure I would feel comfortable anyway.

 

How many of you have sailed on the Monarch of the Seas in the last 15 years or so? You know she hit a reef in Phillipsburg harbor and the Captain beached her there to prevent her further sinking....but she partially sunk. She was patched, floated and towed to a shipyard for repair. The damage was far less than this accident....but she was returned to service about 4 months later.

 

I was a TA at the time and had 4 couples onboard with honeymooners to board the next week.

 

RCI eventually returned all guests belongings about 3 weeks later.

 

 

 

 

The Monarch had only bottom damage. The Conocrdia has considerably more bottom damage, much of which we cannot see as yet, and the starboard side is grinding againist the rocks and will continue to grind for the next month until she is righted.

 

 

But the biggest issue is all of the interoir is underwater or soaked with salt water which will get into everything and rot it. The engines/machinery are under water......and most every there except maybe the blocks will have to be replaced. These cruises ships are electronic monsters.....She would have to be totally gutted to bare steel and totally refitted.

 

It one thing to new build a ship with premade blocks and put them together, but a lot more work to refit a entire ship into a steel structure.

 

Could it be done?.yes......but logistic and costs will prevent it.

 

It is HIGHLY unlikely that she will be sailing again. In fact there have been reports the salvage bidders are also considering cutting her up on the beach, in addition to trying to float her.

 

 

I am sorry, as much as I would love to see her underway again, she will never sail again.

 

 

AKK

[sidari]

Tonka .... Not all the ship is under water and never has been in fact it is fairly close to 50/50 of what is and what is not!

 

It would be a Massive job to repair but with todays technology and the fact that Fincantieri have many shipyards close by there is still the possibility that the ship could be repaired, whether it would be is a matter for Costa and their Insurance company.

[IndyDenise]

Posted on CC HAL Board from RunswithDolphins:

 

Just got off the phone with the Brother-in-law (Senior Salvage Master for Titan Salvage)... It doesn't look good. The ship has sunk a meter in a day and there is an extremely amount of stress on the middle of the ship. The BIL is worried that she will literally break in half. They are rushing to remove all the fuel (which is still on) and they hope to remove most of it tomorrow. The explosions (the ones used to get to the bodies yesterday) were on extreme structural points on the ship and the BIL is angry that they didn't go a foot to the left to avoid the structural steel. The ship is still salvageable, but it will be extremely hard and they have to start in the next few days or he will be turning down the job and returning back to Florida. Mainly because salvage companies don't get paid unless they save the ship... They get 10% of the total value of the ship + cargo (~$57 Million in terms of the Concordia), so it's a good return. So thats my update... Remember, it may not be exactly what is happening. Things are changing every day. I'll keep you update and answer questions if you have any...

 

---------------------------------------------------

 

Seems that reports that it may break in the middle are correct.

[Aplmac]

Two words to those of you who think the wreck will sail again some day..

 

SALT WATER ;)

 

_______________________________

Every- and any-thing submerged in this great liquid 'equalizer' of all things

..is going to be Toast!

 

Anything made of aluminum,particularly...is now Dust!

.

.

[Maid Marion]

If the ship does not sink into deeper water I think she could be salvaged and it would probably be economical to do so. However, I do not think she would be used as a cruise ship again. It would probably be converted to carry cargo of sorts.

Many years ago a ship called the Cunard Ambassador was gutted by fire and she was converted to a sheep carrier.

[Wanderfully]

" hoping to have fuel removed by tomorrow" just where are you hearing that stuff? I understand that removing that amount of fuel is going to take several days if not weeks and hasn't even been started yet

[FrankNJ]

I'm afraid at this point that Costa cruises is stupid enough to sail this ship again .

[ducklite]

I believe Carnival did not insure this ship for business interruption coverage.

 

They "self-insured" which can mean that they took their chances or it can mean that they set aside funds in a separate bucket to cover the loss. Either way, there's no one else covering the loss.

[ducklite]

Having a background in Risk Management and Insurance and exposure to the re-insurance market of Lloyds, here's my thought on the response to this...

 

There is no way in HECK Costa would have been allowed to take responsibility publicly of their Captain making a "GRAVE HUMAN ERROR" unless legal cleared that! That was a calculated legal response at placing blame to the Captain, and trying to thwart what they know is coming to place blame on the company. You NEVER go out and say something like this unless you are trying to reassess blame AWAY from yourself.

 

Given some of the 'off the chart courses" that have been published as taken prior with this cruise, we've seen prior "drive bys" to the island on the way to their destination. Costa is trying to get in front of things by saying "this is NOT SOMETHING we endorse nor is it on our schedule (cough, but we looked the other way because it was great for publicity and shock value, but of course we didn't endorse it as standard practice even though it's happened more than once!).

 

Now they are trying to say, BAD, BAD, BAD Captain for going off course (and honestly, he's a douche and asshat for abandoning ship... but what do you expect from a captain who was trying to show boat and getting his ego stroked? He was probably praised and didn't get his hand slapped the 1st time he did it and got away with it?)!!!"

 

Costa wants to say publicly say "human error", bad captain, let me show you how bad he is! Hang him... and quite frankly his actions of falling off the ship into a lifeboat, well, he deserves to have legal sanctions brought against him to the most serious degree. BUT, Don't let Costa get off scott free!!! If Costa has allowed this behavior before, and is now trying to play dumb immediately (which it seems like they are trying to do), they will have some serious issues down the road publicly with press and MORE IMPORTANTLY with their insurers.

 

There is NO REASON to admit fault of the Captain unless you know as a company you've played loosey goosy and are looking for a fall guy. Frankly, the fact they immediately came out to blame the captain for grave human errors in navigation tells me they F*&*ed up and let him get away with it... they are looking for a fall guy! I'm afraid when the chips fall, they will be found at fault as a company in addition to the coward Captain they employed. Corporate spin can only do so much to remove the fact they endorsed the show boating in the past that lead to this tragedy! And there's where the big boys fall!

 

I absolutely agree with this. They have circle the wagons, but it's not going to help in the long run. And their perceived (and by first hand reports actual) lack of empathy towards the passengers is a public relations nightmare towards their brand that will have a negative affect on their sister brands as well.

[balf]

This is what homeowners' and/or personal effects' insurance is for.

 

The cruise line would not be responsible.

 

So the cruise line has no liabillity? Some guy tailended me on the motorway recently, totaling my car, and he/his insurance had no liability? And what of the dead, do they have no liability for those also?

 

Carnival/Costa will pay up, if only because of the disasterous publicity if they don't.

 

David.

[ducklite]

So the cruise line has no liabillity? Some guy tailended me on the motorway recently, totaling my car, and he/his insurance had no liability? And what of the dead, do they have no liability for those also?

 

Carnival/Costa will pay up, if only because of the disasterous publicity if they don't.

 

David.

 

What will actually happen is that the other insurers will pay out initially to settle insureds claims, then will subrogate against Costa and their parent corporation CCL, even banding together for a class action if need be.