How's the new HAL non smoking policy working out?

[1 HappyCruiser]

If someone is smoking , spoiling air besides you , you do not "lose the use of your veranda..." You CHOOSE not to use the veranda.

 

I'm an ex smoker , quit 15 years ago, and have sailed on cruises where either one or both of the occupants are smokers (including cigars)

 

I have never lost the use of my balcony because of that Either I went outside or ????????? bur it was my CHOICE

 

But as a former smoker you must be much more tolerant to the smell than any non smoker. There's a big difference.

[Silver sailor]

But as a former smoker you must be much more tolerant to the smell than any non smoker. There's a big difference.

 

There may be a difference as to one's tolerance if they are former smokers or not. You assume i am more tolerant because I,m a former smoker

 

That is not the point

If you are in a stateroom next to a smoker , no matter what your tolerance for fumes are, you do not LOSE THE USE OF YOUR VERANDA

 

You make a personal decison not to use your veranda The right to the use of the veranda is not lost IE taken from you

 

Smokers can choose to sail on HAL

Non smokers can choose X

 

I have no compassion for anyone, on any subject, who continually complains but does not do anything about the situation if options are available

 

If you think someones product is inferior in some respects you boycott that product "momey talks"

[peaches from georgia]

............

If you think someones product is inferior in some respects you boycott that product "momey talks"

How true! Money talks. Anyone soooo unhappy with verandah smoking on HAL who refuses to use their verandah if anyone is smoking on a nearby verandah, but who does nothing except b---h and complain while still cruising HAL, is working against their own goal.

 

All HAL, like any company, cares about is the bottom line. If bookings go down because of verandah smoking they will take notice and possibly eventually change the policy. If you continue to sail HAL it's your choice, but as far as HAL is concerned you are still buying their product so all the complaining and moaning is totally a waste of breath. Unless, of course, you just like to complain about something that isn't perfect, which in some cases is true.

[CtheW0rld]

There may be a difference as to one's tolerance if they are former smokers or not. You assume i am more tolerant because I,m a former smoker

 

That is not the point

If you are in a stateroom next to a smoker , no matter what your tolerance for fumes are, you do not LOSE THE USE OF YOUR VERANDA

 

You make a personal decison not to use your veranda The right to the use of the veranda is not lost IE taken from you

 

Smokers can choose to sail on HAL

Non smokers can choose X

 

I have no compassion for anyone, on any subject, who continually complains but does not do anything about the situation if options are available

 

If you think someones product is inferior in some respects you boycott that product "momey talks"

 

crazy talk. (joking, i completely agree with you, and have put my money where my mouth is.)

[startwin]

But as a former smoker you must be much more tolerant to the smell than any non smoker. There's a big difference.

 

Not me. I'm a former chain-smoker, and can't stand the smoke anywhere near. Eyes stream, nose very sensitive, and the smell gives me a terrible headache. I think it almost makes you more sensitive.

 

However, I have to say that - so far - it's never been a major problem for me on any HAL or RCI ship. I'm hoping there will be an improvement now that there's no smoking in the cabins with less smell in the hallways. As long as smokers stick to the smoking-permitted areas, I know where to avoid. As for the verandah.... like I said, so far so good, and I may just have been lucky. If it becomes a problem for me, then HAL loses me as a customer, which is too bad because I really like their itineraries and onboard life. If it affects enough non-smokers that way, and they lose enough of their clientele, they may change the policy again. I honestly don't think HAL wants to become known as the "smokers' cruiseline". Not a good image these days:eek:

[cruisemom42]

But as a former smoker you must be much more tolerant to the smell than any non smoker. There's a big difference.

 

Actually, in my experience former smokers are much less tolerant, not more tolerant, of smokers.

 

And as a never smoker, I am not bothered by others smoking on their veranda. Just wanted to put it out there that not everyone is rabid on this issue. :rolleyes:

[Charles4515]

I agree with Heatherfromeflorida. There are lots on cruise lines, instead of making such a big deal just use them. If you are part of the anti smoking change the world crowd this is not the place. If you must have HAL just suck it up. I really don't think HAL cares what you think because their ships sail full each week.

 

They care about what people think. The smoking policy has evolved on HAL in the direction of more restrictions. I expect it to continue to evolve in that direction.

[HeatherInFlorida]

............ There are lots on cruise lines, instead of making such a big deal just use them. If you are part of the anti smoking change the world crowd this is not the place. If you must have HAL just suck it up. I really don't think HAL cares what you think because their ships sail full each week.

 

How true! Money talks. Anyone soooo unhappy with verandah smoking on HAL who refuses to use their verandah if anyone is smoking on a nearby verandah, but who does nothing except b---h and complain while still cruising HAL, is working against their own goal.

 

All HAL, like any company, cares about is the bottom line. If bookings go down because of verandah smoking they will take notice and possibly eventually change the policy. If you continue to sail HAL it's your choice, but as far as HAL is concerned you are still buying their product so all the complaining and moaning is totally a waste of breath. Unless, of course, you just like to complain about something that isn't perfect, which in some cases is true.

 

For all the pages written, it comes down to this. Money talks ... Always. Complaining really doesn't as long as you continue to cross the gangway.

 

But there are some who continue to believe otherwise. They believe HAL reads these boards which is probably true; someone reviews the threads from time to time I'm sure. But HAL also recognizes that the people represented here are just a tiny percentage of their clientele and not necessarily a balanced cross section.

[iancal]

I think Kelmac and Peaches are spot on. We have choices. If you do not like the choice, stop complaining and vote with your feet.

[Randyk47]

I keep telling myself to stay out of the smoking discussion but I've got to say I don't quite get the notion that HAL is going to become known as the "smoker's cruise line" because they allow smoking on their verandas and in a few other limited venues. Celebrity went their even more restrictive smoking policies years ago and while there may have been some smokers who gave up on Celebrity because of that I can't remember there was a flood of smokers who came over to HAL. Seems to me it's much more likely smokers will find other vacation venues than chase limited smoking venues from cruise line to cruise line.

[sail7seas]

They care about what people think. The smoking policy has evolved on HAL in the direction of more restrictions. I expect it to continue to evolve in that direction.

 

 

I agree.

It has been the constant comments against permissive smoking policies that had it banned in Lido, Main Dining Room, almost all the lounges, Lido Pool Area and all the surrounding tables as well as at the bar.

 

It is now banned inside cabins and the last step will be verandas.

Casino is up for grabs whether they will make more money or less permitting smoking.

If they choose to permit it in sports bar or not is fine either way by me. I don't wish for them to make ships totally non-smoking. I think there should be one inside place and at least one outside (hopefully with shelter from rain.)

 

Veranda smoking will end from complaints. The louder and more frequent the complaints, the better for those who want it prohibited.

 

To say complaints have made no difference defies logic.

They didn't casually choose to change the policy to ban it in Ocean Bar some two years ago out of thin air. A great deal of decision making went into that ultimate action as well as this new ban for in cabin smoking.

[Charles4515]

Actually, in my experience former smokers are much less tolerant, not more tolerant, of smokers.

 

And as a never smoker, I am not bothered by others smoking on their veranda. Just wanted to put it out there that not everyone is rabid on this issue. :rolleyes:

 

I am a never smoker and I did have balconies on my last two cruises. One on HAL and one on RCI. Secondhand smoke did not bother me much on those two cruises. It was a slight annoyance and when the ship was moving not at all. It did bother me on the HAL ship on the smoking side of the pool deck so I stayed don the other side. I guess because it is more concentrated there. I would prefer they eliminate most of the rest of the indoor smoking areas as a priority over the outdoor areas.

[Charles4515]

 

Casino is up for grabs whether they will make more money or less permitting smoking.

If they choose to permit it in sports bar or not is fine either way by me. I don't wish for them to make ships totally non-smoking. I think there should be one inside place and at least one outside (hopefully with shelter from rain.)[/b]

 

 

I don't know how they are doing on revenue but on the Celebrity cruise I took where the casino was non smoking the casino was packed. More crowded than the on last few HAL ships I have been on. That is only one sailing so I don't know if it was representative.

 

I agree with you on leaving one indoor and one outdoor place.

[sail7seas]

DH and I used to play some slot machines often after dinner but I never do anymore. He used to enjoy tables in the casino at least a few times a cruise but now cannot bear it.

 

There are many non-smokers who say they avoid the casino they would otherwise frequent were it not for the smoke.

 

[chrispb]

I agree.

It has been the constant comments against permissive smoking policies that had it banned in Lido, Main Dining Room, almost all the lounges, Lido Pool Area and all the surrounding tables as well as at the bar.

 

It is now banned inside cabins and the last step will be verandas.

Casino is up for grabs whether they will make more money or less permitting smoking.

If they choose to permit it in sports bar or not is fine either way by me. I don't wish for them to make ships totally non-smoking. I think there should be one inside place and at least one outside (hopefully with shelter from rain.)

 

Veranda smoking will end from complaints. The louder and more frequent the complaints, the better for those who want it prohibited.

 

To say complaints have made no difference defies logic.

They didn't casually choose to change the policy to ban it in Ocean Bar some two years ago out of thin air. A great deal of decision making went into that ultimate action as well as this new ban for in cabin smoking.

 

I don't think for one minute that the grizzling and grumbling that goes on in this forum contributed to the change. More to do with the fact that HAL is sailing in EU countries. Also, I don't think there is enough customer demand to have yet another line with smoking restrictions. Some people travel with a smoking partner or other family members/friends. I'm pretty sure HAL did their homework on this anyway.

[sail7seas]

I don't think for one minute that the grizzling and grumbling that goes on in this forum contributed to the change. More to do with the fact that HAL is sailing in EU countries. Also, I don't think there is enough customer demand to have yet another line with smoking restrictions. Some people travel with a smoking partner or other family members/friends. I'm pretty sure HAL did their homework on this anyway.

 

 

How do you explain the many changes to smoking policy they have made in recent years? I don't think hey did it with no urging?

 

They debated long and hard over those continued cut backs and were not casual decisions.

[Charles4515]

I don't think for one minute that the grizzling and grumbling that goes on in this forum contributed to the change. More to do with the fact that HAL is sailing in EU countries. Also, I don't think there is enough customer demand to have yet another line with smoking restrictions. Some people travel with a smoking partner or other family members/friends. I'm pretty sure HAL did their homework on this anyway.

 

I do think there is customer demand for more smoking restrictions on HAL and particularly on HAL. HAL is more like Celebrity, Princess, Azamara and Oceania in its passenger demographic and premium features. I expect the last lines to change will be Carnival and Royal Caribbean.

 

In addition Stein Kruse sent out a message that said "You entrust us with your safety. We take that responsibility very seriously." If they take our safety very seriously they need to further restrict smoking.

[chrispb]

How do you explain the many changes to smoking policy they have made in recent years? I don't think hey did it with no urging?

 

They debated long and hard over those continued cut backs and were not casual decisions.

I said nothing about casual decisions?? I just don't think the change has anything to do with the grizzling and grumbling.

[cruisemom42]

I do think there is customer demand for more smoking restrictions on HAL and particularly on HAL. HAL is more like Celebrity, Princess, Azamara and Oceania in its passenger demographic and premium features. I expect the last lines to change will be Carnival and Royal Caribbean.

 

In addition Stein Kruse sent out a message that said "You entrust us with your safety. We take that responsibility very seriously." If they take our safety very seriously they need to further restrict smoking.

 

I think it much more likely that -- as someone already posted in this thread or a similar one -- Carnival Corp is hedging its bets so as not to lose passengers to another line. Those for whom the ability to smoke in a less-restricted way onboard is important can choose HAL. Those who do not wish to be upset by smokers on balconies or cabins can now choose Princess. A win-win for Carnival Corporation overall. (Personally, I do not think HAL, Celebrity and Princess can be lumped into the same category as Azamara and Oceania...)

 

Incidentally, second-hand smoke causes an estimated 49,400 deaths per year in the US, as compared with 75,000 deaths related to excessive alcohol consumption (does not include drunk driving) and 112,000 deaths related to obesity.

 

So if HAL really cared about everyone's well-being, they'd stop encouraging over-consumption of alcohol and food onboard their ships.

 

Or to put things into perspective another way: of the 2.4 million deaths annually in the US, about 2% are due to second-hand smoke. (And of those 2%, many are the result of constant, not occasional, exposure.)

[chrispb]

I do think there is customer demand for more smoking restrictions on HAL and particularly on HAL. HAL is more like Celebrity, Princess, Azamara and Oceania in its passenger demographic and premium features. I expect the last lines to change will be Carnival and Royal Caribbean.

 

In addition Stein Kruse sent out a message that said "You entrust us with your safety. We take that responsibility very seriously." If they take our safety very seriously they need to further restrict smoking.

 

Royal Caribbean has been more restrictive than HAL already. No smoking in staterooms for at least the last couple of years plus no smoking ANYWHERE indoors.

[AirGorilla]

Royal Caribbean has been more restrictive than HAL already. No smoking in staterooms for at least the last couple of years plus no smoking ANYWHERE indoors.

 

'Cept for the casino!

 

AG

[Charles4515]

Royal Caribbean has been more restrictive than HAL already. No smoking in staterooms for at least the last couple of years plus no smoking ANYWHERE indoors.

 

It is not true that there is no smoking anywhere indoors on Royal Caribbean. Besides the casino there is indoor smoking. For example on Allure of the Seas there were smoking areas in the Pub, Bolaros and Dazzles this past December. There may be more indoor smoking areas on Royal Caribbean than on HAL since the January changes.

[lcand1923]

But you knew when you booked that you may have smokers next door. Nothing has changed, except that smokers can no longer smoke in their staterooms. By the way, I don't buy that "allergy" nonsense, when people are smoking outdoors.

 

I am not the poster who mentioned the problem, but I can tell you that it isn't nonsense about smoking allergies when you are outdoors. I avoid tobacco smoke as much as possible but have experience eye infections and respiratory infections after sitting in an outside cafe with smokers at adjoining tables (they were seated after me and I left as soon as possible.) Some people are very sensitive. (I am having second/third and fourth thoughts about sailing HAL again.)

[Charles4515]

I think it much more likely that -- as someone already posted in this thread or a similar one -- Carnival Corp is hedging its bets so as not to lose passengers to another line. Those for whom the ability to smoke in a less-restricted way onboard is important can choose HAL. Those who do not wish to be upset by smokers on balconies or cabins can now choose Princess. A win-win for Carnival Corporation overall. (Personally, I do not think HAL, Celebrity and Princess can be lumped into the same category as Azamara and Oceania...)

 

Incidentally, second-hand smoke causes an estimated 49,400 deaths per year in the US, as compared with 75,000 deaths related to excessive alcohol consumption (does not include drunk driving) and 112,000 deaths related to obesity.

 

So if HAL really cared about everyone's well-being, they'd stop encouraging over-consumption of alcohol and food onboard their ships.

 

Or to put things into perspective another way: of the 2.4 million deaths annually in the US, about 2% are due to second-hand smoke. (And of those 2%, many are the result of constant, not occasional, exposure.)

 

I did not say HAL really cared about everyone's well being. I am not saying they don't either. But they do want us to believe they do whether they do or not. That is why they wrote the letter. They want us to keep buying their cruises.

 

As far as other ways of dying, besides that death is not the only issue, as there are health issues from exposure short of dying, comparing them is not relevant, as smoking is the topic. I am sure you could come up with a long list of red herrings. However is I was thinking primarily of the fire hazard when I wrote my post.

[sail7seas]

I said nothing about casual decisions?? I just don't think the change has anything to do with the grizzling and grumbling.

 

 

 

If not comments/requests from non-smokers and people who do not want to be subjected to second hand smoke, then what do you think are the reasons they made more restrictive smoking rules?