How's the new HAL non smoking policy working out?

[Amuse Bouche]

How do you explain the many changes to smoking policy they have made in recent years? I don't think hey did it with no urging?

 

They debated long and hard over those continued cut backs and were not casual decisions.

 

:-D Maybe it's because the rest of the world is respecting everyone's options to NOT be around smoke if they choose not to? i. e restaurants, public buildings...

 

I really doubt that there was a clutch of militant "we are doing this for your own good whether you like it or not" do-gooders pasting signs on cork message boards around the world, that made the airlines adopt a no smoking policy 25-30 yrs ago. (pre internet). :rolleyes:

 

This thread, and all like it, are pointless. Voice assumptions, make dire predictions on actions that you have no control over, boycott, whatever you want to do...the bottom line is, like any industry, they will follow whatever trends are working in the current market. That's marketing 101, which can be learned simply by watching the trends in the media.

 

The airlines were able to do this, since they weren't asking people to stop smoking for an unreasonable length of time. As long as there are smokers with money and the desire to cruise, someone will let them. I'll even cruise if they limit me to a open air, covered barshack on the top deck. And you will probably still be complaining that there is ONE vantage point on the ship that you can't visit because it allows smoking.

[Amuse Bouche]

Seriously, as childish as it sounds, this thread and all others like it are making me want to just go smoke 3 times more than I really do, on my balcony, just because I can.

 

If the anti smokers were POLITE and addressed smokers as fellow human beings, without a holier than thou attitude, (you really need this to make yourself feel elevated?) then I'd probably start considering taking their opinions seriously and with sympathy.

[SJSULIBRARIAN]

We'll be on a HAL ship next month for 25 days, so I will be interested to see how the new smoking policy effects us as non-smokers. We have a veranda and am hoping we do not have a cigar smoker next door. Most ciararette smoke I can tolerate but not a cigar smoker who is on the veranda next door basically 24/7. We shall see.

[peaches from georgia]

Bruce Muzz was very clear on HAL's decision-making process re smoking/non-smoking areas and obviously HAL is trying to establish it's own niche in the market. Limited smoking, but to attract smokers who would lke a slightly more liberal atmosphere with verandah smoking allowed.

 

I never have understood how non-smokers who are so upset with outdoor smoking on a neighboring verandah (with a metal barrier between verandahs and a breeze blowing any smoke outwards) and swear the smell and even a whiff of smoke makes them ill could have spent evening after evening in the lounges when they had a smoking section at and around the bar and had no problem. At least not a big enough problem to stop spending the cocktail hour every night even sitting at the bar surrounded by smokers, not even moving to the non-smoking section.

[sail7seas]

People's tolerances change and adjust

We live in a state where we are never exposed to smoke. Massachusetts does not permit smoking in any work place and just about everywhere one goes is a workplace for someone. Seeing we live in a totally smoke free environment, it is particularly noxious to us when we are exposed to it on our veranda. It is a foreign odor we have come to enjoy living without in our everyday life.

 

This is not unusual to just MA. There are more and more states with hugely limiting smoking laws.

[Opinions]

If not comments/requests from non-smokers and people who do not want to be subjected to second hand smoke, then what do you think are the reasons they made more restrictive smoking rules?

 

Probably because the other cruise lines were doing it...There was no great demand for open dining but HAL now has it because other cruiselines do...Apparently the Carnival Corporation piciked HAL to have smoking on their balconies and let Princess have the smoke free ones...And it probably will stay that way as long as it works out financially.

[sail7seas]

Yes, of course, $$ rule most business decisions.

 

[Charles4515]

I never have understood how non-smokers who are so upset with outdoor smoking on a neighboring verandah (with a metal barrier between verandahs and a breeze blowing any smoke outwards) and swear the smell and even a whiff of smoke makes them ill could have spent evening after evening in the lounges when they had a smoking section at and around the bar and had no problem. At least not a big enough problem to stop spending the cocktail hour every night even sitting at the bar surrounded by smokers, not even moving to the non-smoking section.

 

So...you think they are making it up? Why would they? It gets mentioned often so that makes it a real problem. As far as the indoor lounges I don't go to those that still have a smoking section. On Allure of the Seas that is annoying because I could not go to the pub which had a very good guitarist and beer selection because of the second hand smoke. Before they made the bars here in Maryland non smoking a few years ago I did not go to a bar for 30 years. Now I go to bars. I don't go to casinos because of the second hand smoke. Some say that smokers gamble more and drink more. Maybe that is the case because non smokers can't take the smoke. I think I would go to casinos if I could breath in them.

 

As far as the Verandah question I have had quite a few and so far have not been bothered by second hand smoke but that is me personally. I believe the people who have had problems on balcanies because I heard the smokers say the same type of stuff as you say about Verandah smoking, that they can't understand how indoor smoke would bother a non smoker. I can't stay in a room with second hand smoke more than a few minutes. I would have loved to have been able to stay and wanted to be able to stay.

[jimmy2x]

"It is now banned inside cabins and the last step will be verandas"

 

I don't believe that will be the case. I'd suggest if you disagree, check out the "X" boards where people are STILL complaining about the very limited spaces (all outdoors) where smoking is still permitted.

 

I really have no dog in this hunt any longer as am down to just two or three per day "real" cigs. There are plenty of people who just need something to bitch about, and even better, need something that makes them feel superior to the currently designated "others" of society.

[kelmac]

My wife and I still like to cruise HAL, but we only book inside/outside cabins. So yes, I'm voting with my dollars. When we cruise Celebrity (about twice as often as HAL) we will upgrade to a balcony if the price is right. In addition, we never visit the casino on HAL ships because of the smoking issue.

I do spend a bit more money on HAL for drinks, but that's because Celebrity gives their Elite members free drinks from 5 -- 7 everyday before dinner.

I also get free laundry and internet on Celebrity. They do get me for added money for their great alternative restaurants.

 

Enjoy!

Kel:)

[nschamp]

First, I cruise for the itinerary and occasionally because the deal is so good on a cruise line that I like enough to have the ship as the destination. I normally read these type of threads smile and keep going but this one raised my ire.

 

I am a smoker. I smoke outside, in my car and those inside areas that are designated for smoking (currently there are very few of these). I chose my up coming HAL cruise for the itinerary (extra sea days) and because I can smoke on my balcony. Princess would have been cheaper for the balcony with sea days but no smoking on the balcony. Get the message I chose! I do not normally book balconies on HAL because I think they are over priced. This time I chose to for my comfort! YOU HAVE A CHOICE! Whining is for small childeren. Make your choice and leave the boards for new topics that can be helpful to other cruisers. Write a letter to HAL and while you are at it write one to congress about the real air pollution.

 

 

 

 

You did not know these passengers but have chosen to characterize them as disgusting. Disgust is a type of aversion that involves withdrawing from a person or object with strong expressions of revulsion whether real or pretended. It is one of the basic emotions and is typically associated with things that are regarded as unclean, inedible, infectious, gory or otherwise offensive. In The Expression of the Emotions in Man and Animals, Charles Darwin wrote that disgust refers to something revolting.

 

You chose to continue to cruise on HAL because you want to be around crew members that make you believe that they really know and care about you like they are friends or family.

 

Are you changing to another line or are you content with the current policy?

 

We always have a choice!

 

I absolutely agree with everything said above!

 

I also am chucking my Princess Elite because of their restrictions; my choice. I'm moving to Holland because of their smoking policy; my choice! I moved from Holland a few years ago because of their price, it no longer bothers me.

[nschamp]

First, there is no such thing as a "reformed drunk". I have not had a drink in almost 25 years. We are alcoholics; we no longer drink. Therefore, we are not "drunks". I also have not smoked for 40 years. So I'm offended by this characterization and would suggest that there is something far "worse" than either ... people who sit at their keyboards making ignorant comments about something they know nothing about and would never dare make to our faces. People who have stopped drinking or smoking made a decision at some point that they didn't want to do one or either anymore for whatever reason. Good for us.:)

 

I applaud Dbedros for the post above because you have hit the nail on the head. Everyone has a choice. It's not like it's a surprise to get on a HAL ship and find someone smoking on the balcony. We know smoking is allowed there. No cruise line on this earth is going to be all things to all people. But there are whiners in this world who like to whine publicly just so they can feel supported by other whiners.

 

Unfortunately, sometimes we need to be careful what we wish for. Because people complained to HAL about too many public smoking areas they have removed many of them. As a result more people are forced onto their balconies.

 

So some people got what they hoped for, fewer public smoking areas, but it's not good enough. I know there are people who would like to ban smoking altogether everywhere. While we're at it, we can ban peanut butter cookies and chocolate cake because they're not good for us either.

 

It's easy to avoid smoke these days if we want to. If HAL's smoking policy is that important, choose another cruise line.

 

Like you we have not drank in 28 years, we do not preach sobriety to anyone.

 

That said, my last "vice" is smoking and I make a lot of decisions based on this.

 

This one of the best posts in this thread!

[chrispb]

I absolutely agree with everything said above!

 

I also am chucking my Princess Elite because of their restrictions; my choice. I'm moving to Holland because of their smoking policy; my choice! I moved from Holland a few years ago because of their price, it no longer bothers me.

 

Good for you, that's exactly what one or 2 of the HAL cheerleaders should do. What's the point of hanging on to whatever status you have if it makes come to this forum grumbling and grizzling. As a smoker there is no way I would sail on Celebrity so why don't non-smokers make the same choices. Time more people put their money where their mouth is:D

[chrispb]

People's tolerances change and adjust

We live in a state where we are never exposed to smoke. Massachusetts does not permit smoking in any work place and just about everywhere one goes is a workplace for someone. Seeing we live in a totally smoke free environment, it is particularly noxious to us when we are exposed to it on our veranda. It is a foreign odor we have come to enjoy living without in our everyday life.

 

This is not unusual to just MA. There are more and more states with hugely limiting smoking laws.

I hate to tell you this but the whole of the EU is the same. Do you really think it is limited to some states in the US? I can't remember the last time I was able to smoke in the workplace, I just wish I could still do so, but things are as they are..

 

There are plenty of other non-smokers who are NOT bothered by smoke, especially when it is being smoked out in the fresh air.

[sail7seas]

I hate to tell you this but the whole of the EU is the same. Do you really think it is limited to some states in the US? I can't remember the last time I was able to smoke in the workplace, I just wish I could still do so, but things are as they are..

 

There are plenty of other non-smokers who are NOT bothered by smoke, especially when it is being smoked out in the fresh air.

 

 

By NO MEANS do I consider smoking restrictions and laws banning smoking to be only in U.S. or Canada or EU......

 

Most of the world is limiting second hand smoke others have to be exposed to.

[Charles4515]

Good for you, that's exactly what one or 2 of the HAL cheerleaders should do. What's the point of hanging on to whatever status you have if it makes come to this forum grumbling and grizzling. As a smoker there is no way I would sail on Celebrity so why don't non-smokers make the same choices. Time more people put their money where their mouth is:D

 

So by your logic all smokers should move to Costa because they are known as the most smoker friendly cruise line? Because of the reviews indicating a smokey ship I never would book them.

 

As a non smoker I do make those choices. When picking a cruise I give weight to the lines with the more restrictive policies. This year at least so far I am booked on a Princess cruise and for my other one or two cruises I will try to find cruises on Celebrity or Princess. Sometimes though we can't find cruises on those lines because of our schedule. Until I retire I have to give the most weight to schedule.

 

I don't think there is a long term niche for a cruise line with smoker friendly policies. Sooner or later HAL will have the same policy as Celebrity and Princess. Even Costa if it continues to exist will unless it only wants to sell to Eastern Europeans.

[chrispb]

So by your logic all smokers should move to Costa because they are known as the most smoker friendly cruise line? Because of the reviews indicating a smokey ship I never would book them.

 

As a non smoker I do make those choices. When picking a cruise I give weight to the lines with the more restrictive policies. This year at least so far I am booked on a Princess cruise and for my other one or two cruises I will try to find cruises on Celebrity or Princess. Sometimes though we can't find cruises on those lines because of our schedule. Until I retire I have to give the most weight to schedule.

 

I don't think there is a long term niche for a cruise line with smoker friendly policies. Sooner or later HAL will have the same policy as Celebrity and Princess. Even Costa if it continues to exist will unless it only wants to sell to Eastern Europeans.

 

Funny you should say that - I'm sailing with Costa next month, so yes, I do put my money where my mouth is:D Sounds like you're doing the same. Horses for courses:cool:.

[startwin]

One thing I notice on this and other smoking threads is that smokers post complaints about the whining and nastiness of non-smokers posts. Well, when I look back through all the posts, the harshest and most insulting posts are from people attacking non-smokers.

 

But having seen many, many smoking threads the result is always the same... there is no resolution, nothing is gained, no headway made by either side. Just hard feelings left in the wake.

[cruz chic]

One thing I notice on this and other smoking threads is that smokers post complaints about the whining and nastiness of non-smokers posts. Well, when I look back through all the posts, the harshest and most insulting posts are from people attacking non-smokers.

 

But having seen many, many smoking threads the result is always the same... there is no resolution, nothing is gained, no headway made by either side. Just hard feelings left in the wake.

Thank you for pointing that out. Seems like some like to believe they are being totally beaten up while they are so innocent:rolleyes:. These threads are tiresome.

[hulamoon]

Just hard feelings left in the wake.

 

This poetic statement would be a nice ending to the thread.

[DFD1]

Before, we would not book Costa because of their liberal smoking policy. Now, we have two reasons.

[hal lover]

Agreed! Get over it people! Non-smokers have many more choices these days and it will continue to get this way. When I first started cruising there was a smoking area everywhere including the show lounge and restaurants. People still smoke, unfortunately, but they are human beings with a bad habit and have every right to have a restricted place to smoke without being demonized.

 

 

You have said a mouthful! I totally agree. Thanks!

[DizzyDallasDi]

i realize i could get banned for this, but, frankly, most of the non-smoking militants on this thread are, for me, like a lot of evangelical/pentacostal christians. they keep up the pressure for their narrow point of view; so, the rest of us have to suffer. i am tired of the utter hypocracy of it all. you don't smoke, you go after some of us for not dressing to the standard you set for formal night, you all sound like some version of hiacynth bucket on 'keeping up appearances.' heaven help us all. you just have the 'issue of the day' to harp on. hiacynth was funny; you, folks, are not.

if the issue were 'black folks' on board, or any ethnic or religious group, or, heaven forbid, gays, , you would not post similar things. these people are not so easy to discriminate against these days. over and out.

 

Agreed! Get over it people! Non-smokers have many more choices these days and it will continue to get this way. When I first started cruising there was a smoking area everywhere including the show lounge and restaurants. People still smoke, unfortunately, but they are human beings with a bad habit and have every right to have a restricted place to smoke without being demonized.

 

Where in the world did these posts come from? Can it be that hell has frozen over and common sense has actually infiltrated a smoking thread?

 

So, there ya go....nothing more needs to be said. We can all sleep in peace tonight knowing that there are still people on this earth that have their wits about them. :D:D

[Amuse Bouche]

One thing I notice on this and other smoking threads is that smokers post complaints about the whining and nastiness of non-smokers posts. Well, when I look back through all the posts, the harshest and most insulting posts are from people attacking non-smokers.

 

 

 

But having seen many, many smoking threads the result is always the same... there is no resolution, nothing is gained, no headway made by either side. Just hard feelings left in the wake.

 

Maybe you just don't see the aggression and completely maligning tone of the voracious non smokers because you agree with them? It's hard to be impartial if you aren't.

 

Second paragraph- Agreed. Very hard feelings. But hey, it gives those who think they live in an ivory tower a sense of superiority, so, something is gained. Why do I say that?? Because in every thread, the SAME people say the SAME things over and over again. Anyone who has been here for a while knows exactly who has made it their goal in life to protest to their dying breath the disgusting habit of smoking. We get it. We read it. We read it. We read it.

There are a few people who have developed an OCD for smoking threads!

[BruceMuzz]

Are there any statistics on the number of people who have developed emphysema or terminal lung cancer from inhaling a few whiffs of cigarette smoke - outdoors - on a one week cruise?

I suspect that the numbers are rather low.........................