Costa Concordia SINKING!

[EVALUATOR]

So, you want to know just how deep the Concordia lies.......take the width of the ship, I have not looked it up, but let's say that it is 160 feet wide, and laying so that about half is above water, the upper portion is resting in 80 feet of water. The lower portion is deeper, and looking at the angle that she rests, maybe 40 to 60 feet deeper.

 

The question is, what is the depth if the ship were to slide just 20 feet?

 

Does anyone have a chart of the depth at where the Concordia rests?

 

There is nervous tension.......with a lot of "if" words being used, and also with the weather not bringing in that much of a wave action, ............

 

1. Has the Concordia moved any in the past week?

2. What was the highest wave action durning the past week?

3. How steep are the waters, within 20 meters of the hull?

 

The other thing that concerns me greatly, is that the weather was not that bad, yet the crews that were sent to pump out the fuel, had to abandon their position.

 

The ship is so close to land, could Smit connect via a boom crane hoist, to a mother carrier on land that could pump, and fill barges in the harbor for transport to an unloading area?

 

There is so much for a salvage operator to think about.........but now first comes the safety of men doing the work, and then comes the environment.

 

If Smit or others can safetly de fuel, and de contaminate the ship.......then tow it out a ways..........and let it sink.......to become the new reef for sealife.

 

Rick

 

I read earlier that they now thought there was little chance of the ship shifting to the point that it would fall off into the deeper 70+ meter deep nearby water.

 

With all the work they did on the USS Oriskany before making it a dive reef 25 miles off the Pensacola Florida coast, not likely the Concordia could be prepped in it's current condition.

 

If they can float it enough to prep it, they should be able to haul it away for scrap.

 

As for pumping off fuel, I thought something from land might work as well. As for how rough the seas are, remember what 6 foot waves are like when boarding tenders. No matter how big the ship, if it floats, 6 foot waves move the ship. I wonder why they have to hot tap under the ship to reach the fuel tanks. It is disappointing that a relatively new ship, with one side completely out of the water wouldn't have some kind of piping configuration to allow pumping out fuel tanks.

[TheBestIsYetToCome]

ON TOPIC: Shocking amateur video (beginning of video) of the actual accident on board in the dining room. A nightmare it was!!!!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfwCvhUC7Ik&feature=fvst

 

Thanks for posting. That video makes me so so angry. Everyone knew something was seriously amiss and for them to tell the passengers and crew it was simply an electrical problem....it's sickening.

[BlackHawk1]

 

As for pumping off fuel, I thought something from land might work as well. As for how rough the seas are, remember what 6 foot waves are like when boarding tenders. No matter how big the ship, if it floats, 6 foot waves move the ship. I wonder why they have to hot tap under the ship to reach the fuel tanks. It is disappointing that a relatively new ship, with one side completely out of the water wouldn't have some kind of piping configuration to allow pumping out fuel tanks.

 

 

Hi, One must keep in mind that the tanks have vents that are open to the air.(and now water if they are submerged) If the fuel tank is below the water and you opened the hull above the oil, it could be forced out as it floats on top of water. If they go from underneath, then the oil is still contained by the hull. Yes the ship would have a piping system, but now it could be damaged and submerged and one also has to have access to valves that control the system. Regards.

[SomeBeach]

Someone just psted a thread on the HAL Boards with regards to HAL now taking the Muster/Lifeboat drills very seriously!!

 

So serious that they are putting people off the shiop if they do not attend!!!

 

The ship talke dabout in this thread by the OP is the Westerdam. I listened to the ship communications from the bridge on the Port Everglades Web Cam and heard the stateroom numbers called out along with a statement hat "He's packing his bags now." http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1561485

 

Somoen further in the thread mentions that they were told aboard the Oosterdam that people not attending the drill will be put off the ship. They were not joking!!

 

All I can say is WTG!!!

 

Joanie

 

Wow! If this is true and I don't doubt you as you try to provide accurate info, WOW!!

If all lines adopt such a policy, then maybe those of us that respect what the drill is about won't have to stand around and wait for the stragglers to show up.

[Uniall]

If I were sitting there and felt and heard that I would have gotten my life jacket and went directly to my muster station. From listening to alot of people that is how they felt also.

 

That sounds like a lesson to be learned from the Concordia. More over, when you get your life vest, go the the muster station with friends and/ or immediately make friends at the muster station to garner allies to prevent your being pushed out of the way or denied lifeboat boarding because Russians have purchased all the seats.

[sidari]

denied lifeboat boarding because Russians have purchased all the seats.

 

Uniall ... Surely you do not believe this Unsubstantiated rubbish from the Media all because a woman from the island says she saw Russian women getting out of a lifeboat with Ball Gowns on ? and to be fair she would not have known it was a Gala night on the Concordia.

[sidari]

An interesting point made by a friend!

 

However......and this is MY biggest gripe about the whole shebang...why are people filming the bloody evacuation when they should be taking notice of what is being done/said around them?

 

The ones using their camera phones and video cameras etc are not taking notice of what is going on around them...we humans like to think of ourselves as perfect multitaskers but we are not...especially in a stressful situation.

[bluesy]

Italian authorities end search for cruise ship bodies

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/01/31/italy-ship-idUSL5E8CV37O20120131

 

 

"Italian authorities have ended the search for bodies on the submerged sections of the capsized Costa Concordia, more than two weeks after the giant cruise liner capsized off the Tuscan coast, officials said on Tuesday. A statement from the civil protection authority said conditions on the wreck had made it impossible for divers to continue working safely in the underwater sections of the 290-metre long vessel.

It said the decision had been finalised after the families of the 15 people still unaccounted for had been informed.

...

 

 

The search will continue in other sections of the half-submerged ship and in waters up to 18 square kilometres around the vessel, where a number of objects have been spotted which investigators believe could turn out to be bodies."

[Uniall]

denied lifeboat boarding because Russians have purchased all the seats.

 

Uniall ... Surely you do not believe this Unsubstantiated rubbish from the Media all because a woman from the island says she saw Russian women getting out of a lifeboat with Ball Gowns on ? and to be fair she would not have known it was a Gala night on the Concordia.

 

I believe it may well have happened based upon accusations, by an eye witness, that Russians (who happened to be wearing evening dress) paid money to life boat crew members. I disagree with your charaterization of "unsubstantiated rubbish." It adds another dimension to the reports that smaller and weaker passengers were shoved aside by bigger and stronger passengers who reverted to the law of the jungle.

[IRL_Joanie]

Yep, it was confirmed as truth in posts by fellow Cruise Critic members, Copper10-8 who is a Security Officer on HAL's Maasdam and Himself who is a Priest on board the Nieuw Amsterdam this week!!

 

I am currently on the Nieuw Amsterdam and at the muster drill it was announced that anyone who refused to attend the muster drill would not be allowed to sail. I don't think it was anyone on our ship but I know the Westerdam left after we sailed. This was yesterday--Sunday.

 

Yes, that warning, and consequences if failing, being located by "sweep teams" and then refusing to attend, is now part of the revised p/a announcement given by the cruise director prior to the (new name) passenger emergency drill. It went into effect on Maasdam effective 01/27/2012 in Ft. Lauderdale

 

Hi Cherie; they, the sweep teams, look for any passengers onboard the vessel not physically located on boat deck where the drill is taking place. They "sweep" all passenger area's while the room stewards check the interior of their assigned cabins. When/if pax are located, they are directed to the boat deck and the drill. If they refuse, a meeting takes place with the chief officer at the front office, in which they are once again directed to take part in the drill. If they still refuse, they are directed to pack/get their bags and disembark

 

I am so glad that HAL is taking the Life Boat/Muster drills so seriously!!

 

Joanie

[sidari]

I believe it may well have happened based upon accusations, by an eye witness

 

The eye witness was one of the islanders a woman.

[Milaandra]

I believe it may well have happened based upon accusations, by an eye witness, that Russians (who happened to be wearing evening dress) paid money to life boat crew members. I disagree with your charaterization of "unsubstantiated rubbish." It adds another dimension to the reports that smaller and weaker passengers were shoved aside by bigger and stronger passengers who reverted to the law of the jungle.

 

1. who carries great wads of cash when going to dinner on a cruise ship?

2. considering the mob mentality that can take over under duress, how would the Russians have made it to the front of the line in order to bribe the crewmembers? If seen bribing their way onto the boat, how would they survive long enough to take their seats?

3. Michelle was on one of the earliest lifeboats, saw none of that and didn't pay for her seat

4. no witnesses on the ship were named, but the Giglio witness who saw the Russians arrive was identified. Standard media practice...if you can prove it, you quote. Otherwise you make vague allegations and when pressed, say you didn't get their names.

5. the first lifeboats were loaded by those officers, crew and off-duty crew that anticipated the abandon ship and have been applauded as heroes. Were they heroes or vile opportunists?

[Zeta3]

I believe it may well have happened based upon accusations, by an eye witness, that Russians (who happened to be wearing evening dress) paid money to life boat crew members. I disagree with your charaterization of "unsubstantiated rubbish." It adds another dimension to the reports that smaller and weaker passengers were shoved aside by bigger and stronger passengers who reverted to the law of the jungle.

 

An island woman on the shore would have only seen the Russians getting off the lifeboat not getting ON the lifeboat so even if money did change hands it could have been anything

Including people being grateful to be alive and thanking the crew with whatever they had.

[cruiserfanfromct]

More Concordia stuff on EBay and other recent news:

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2094422/Yours-900-Casino-token-Costa-Concordia-souvenirs-auction-eBay.html?ITO=1490

[Uniall]

I believe it may well have happened based upon accusations, by an eye witness

 

The eye witness was one of the islanders a woman.

 

1. who carries great wads of cash when going to dinner on a cruise ship?

2. considering the mob mentality that can take over under duress, how would the Russians have made it to the front of the line in order to bribe the crewmembers? If seen bribing their way onto the boat, how would they survive long enough to take their seats?

3. Michelle was on one of the earliest lifeboats, saw none of that and didn't pay for her seat

4. no witnesses on the ship were named, but the Giglio witness who saw the Russians arrive was identified. Standard media practice...if you can prove it, you quote. Otherwise you make vague allegations and when pressed, say you didn't get their names.

5. the first lifeboats were loaded by those officers, crew and off-duty crew that anticipated the abandon ship and have been applauded as heroes. Were they heroes or vile opportunists?

 

An island woman on the shore would have only seen the Russians getting off the lifeboat not getting ON the lifeboat so even if money did change hands it could have been anything

Including people being grateful to be alive and thanking the crew with whatever they had.

 

 

I assume you are sincere in your opinions that Russians did not pay for their place on the lifeboat.

 

I still hold to my opinion: "it may well have happened based upon accusations, by an eye witness." I never said I believed it did happen, but that it may have happened.

 

Because the eye witness is an islander does not make her statement less believable. I have not read any denials of her accusation and would be delighted to hear from you if you have seen any.

 

It is not unreasonable to suspect that a person traveling with very large sums of cash would retrieve it when getting life vests. from the cabin.

 

Once again, there seems to be a divurgence of opinion among posters as to what evidence is required before concluding that something occured. I hold that unrebutted accusations that are within the realm of human experience certainly allows for a reasonble belief that it may have occured and certainly demands complete investigation. Other posters seem to believe that uncorroborated accusations require futher evidence before it is appropriate to assert them as possibilities or probabilities.

 

As a retired prosecutor and investigator, I suspect the worst of human nature and investigate every rationale accusation as if it were true. Others may prefer to only see the good side of human nature.

 

In addition, once I gather enough evidence that leads me to conclude that evil doing probably has occured, I will consider the "perp" guilty and will regard him as such in any personal or community setting. Others, do not consider a person guilty with anything less than "beyond a reasonable doubt."

 

I would hope we can have differing systems of logic and still share each others views without animis.

 

Allow me to share a recent cruise story. Cartegna, Spain had only one tourist bus operated by the city. It did not allow hop on hop off but did have the recorded touring info with ear pods. A full circuit took 50 minutes and with 10 minutes to change passengers, the bus left every hour on the hour. When we arrived at the bus stop @ 10:30, there were already 50 people in line n front of us. Another 50 or so people arrived after us and were in line behind us. When the bus arrived it stopped short of the marked bus stop and the door opened about the middle of the tourists' line. Once the bus had unloaded, the people behind me began pushing forward to get on the bus first. I blocked their way and told everyone in front of me to board the bus. Then I turned back to those behind me and told them that they would have to wait their proper turn. Several asked who put me in charge and I said: I did. The incident was talked about aboard ship for the next 10 days by many people who had been in the front of the line. It's funny that no one admitted being among those trying to push forward out of turn.

 

I think there is a human nature connection between that vignette and the Concordia saga.

 

With goodwill and respect,

 

John

[SomeBeach]

1. who carries great wads of cash when going to dinner on a cruise ship?

 

As to carrying money on the ship, some people do. I don't know if Costa has gone to using cards for the casino or if money can still be used there but that could be one reason for having cash on hand.

Also, this cruise provided a few ports for boarding/leaving the ship. Could be that some folks were going to leave and had cash on them for tips. Even tho I do automatic tipping, I still have cash on me to give additional tips to those I thought deserved it.

Many reports indicated that folks went back to their cabins to get lifejackets. Quite possible they removed cash, passports, phones, and such from the safes.

Joanie, thanks for additional info on drills. From a cruise I did on HAL years ago, I recall reading posts made by Copper-10 and I would consider him highly reliable. The same with Himself.

This morning, between 8 and 9 a.m. Italy time, several boats were around the Concordia. It was hard to tell what they were doing, even with the screen enlarged. Possible they were only monitoring the situation around the ship.

Quite sad news about the search for the missing. This has to be most disappointing for the families. I looked at the Heil family blog earlier and they have not update it recently but they really haven't had anything to say since their last update.

I do believe the Italian rescue/recovery crews have been very diligent in their search but when the risk becomes so great, then it is time to make a change to the plan to find the missing. I hope when the salvage operations are in full swing, they are mindful of the fact that there are still some missing on the ship. My belief in the goodness in the majority of people leads me to believe they will be.

I also read that clean up and searches are going on through items washing further ashore.

[Uniall]

denied lifeboat boarding because Russians have purchased all the seats.

 

Uniall ... Surely you do not believe this Unsubstantiated rubbish from the Media all because a woman from the island says she saw Russian women getting out of a lifeboat with Ball Gowns on ? and to be fair she would not have known it was a Gala night on the Concordia.

 

 

Sidari

 

:D I have very powerful friends. :D

 

 

CLICK ON PHOTO

TO ENLARGE

[greg-nc]

More Concordia stuff on EBay and other recent news:

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2094422/Yours-900-Casino-token-Costa-Concordia-souvenirs-auction-eBay.html?ITO=1490

 

This article with direct quotes from the ships' doctor, Lt Gianluca Marino Cosentino, supports assertions that I made earlier that Captain Schettino was on shore by midnight and left the ship between 10:50pm to 11:30pm. It is clear that the captain was on-shore when he talked with the coast guard and pretending to be in a lifeboat.

 

Some quotes:

 

'All I know is that half an hour before the order to abandon ship was given all the crew were on decks by the lifeboats and when the announcement was made I'm 90 per cent certain it was not the captain's voice.'

 

'When I saw Schettino he seemed shocked and no longer lucid. He had completely deserted his role as captain. Their was no co-ordination of the rescue from him.'

 

'Personally I was very surprised when I saw him in civilian clothes on the harbour side at around 12.30am'

 

'Then when I heard that he'd had the time to return to his cabin and collect his personal effects, including his computer, and that eventually he had been unlucky enough to trip into a lifeboat, well, that was the final straw.'

 

'During the rescue operations I was quite clearly in my uniform and people kept asking me if I had seen the captain and if I knew where he was. Everyone was looking for him.'

[MorganMars]

I wonder why they have to hot tap under the ship to reach the fuel tanks. It is disappointing that a relatively new ship, with one side completely out of the water wouldn't have some kind of piping configuration to allow pumping out fuel tanks.

Hi, One must keep in mind that the tanks have vents that are open to the air.(and now water if they are submerged) If the fuel tank is below the water and you opened the hull above the oil, it could be forced out as it floats on top of water. If they go from underneath, then the oil is still contained by the hull. Yes the ship would have a piping system, but now it could be damaged and submerged and one also has to have access to valves that control the system. Regards.

 

Smit Salvage has posted a presentation on removing the oil at http://www.smit.com/sitefactor/public/Salvage_Projects/Costa_Concordia/Press_Briefing_Oil_Removal_280112.pdf

and the animations and videos referred to in that presentation can be found at http://www.boskalis.com/press/media-library/videos.html?videoCategoryId=566 . I found the video showing the diver performing the work very interesting. You could tell by his breathing how much effort it took.

 

Regards,

Mary

[SomeBeach]

Mary, thanks for the links. The first one gives us an indication of how the ship is sitting on the ledge, something we haven't seen before.

Second link, most interesting.

[cruiserfanfromct]

Yes - I remember you did say that and it looks like you were right.

 

It's incredulous that one would think to change clothes in a disaster of that magnitude! What - his socks didn't match his outfit? You have to wonder if he did this to blend in with the crowd and avoid detection. And taking his laptop and other things while the ship is sinking? What on earth for? A cover-up is what comes to mind.

 

It's amazing that someone with this degree of gutlessness and dishonesty would be in charge of commanding a cruise ship. F(ing) unbelievable!!!!!

 

This article with direct quotes from the ships' doctor, Lt Gianluca Marino Cosentino, supports assertions that I made earlier that Captain Schettino was on shore by midnight and left the ship between 10:50pm to 11:30pm. It is clear that the captain was on-shore when he talked with the coast guard and pretending to be in a lifeboat.

 

Some quotes:

 

'All I know is that half an hour before the order to abandon ship was given all the crew were on decks by the lifeboats and when the announcement was made I'm 90 per cent certain it was not the captain's voice.'

 

'When I saw Schettino he seemed shocked and no longer lucid. He had completely deserted his role as captain. Their was no co-ordination of the rescue from him.'

 

'Personally I was very surprised when I saw him in civilian clothes on the harbour side at around 12.30am'

 

'Then when I heard that he'd had the time to return to his cabin and collect his personal effects, including his computer, and that eventually he had been unlucky enough to trip into a lifeboat, well, that was the final straw.'

 

'During the rescue operations I was quite clearly in my uniform and people kept asking me if I had seen the captain and if I knew where he was. Everyone was looking for him.'

[cruiserfanfromct]

Now that the search has been called off my heart bleeds for the Heil family. Here is their latest update - God bless their souls:

http://heilfamilyupdate.wordpress.com/

[cruiserfanfromct]

The British documentary,

Terror At Sea The Sinking Of The Concordia

 

just made it on YouTube in 3 parts - here is part 1:

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lumohbc4bKc

[sr5242]

The British documentary,

Terror At Sea The Sinking Of The Concordia

 

just made it on YouTube in 3 parts - here is part 1:

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lumohbc4bKc

 

Thanks for posting this, if anyone can find part 3 please post the link, I could only find parts 1 and 2

[MorganMars]

Thanks for posting this, if anyone can find part 3 please post the link, I could only find parts 1 and 2

 

 

Part 3 will be broadcast tomorrow night, February 1st, so it won't be up tonight.

 

Regards,

MorganMars