Carnival is Being VERY Misleading with Sunshine

[DarthGrady]

So I guess I'm one of the last to know about the Destiny/Sunshine changeover. I just went to Carnival's website to read about this, and I have to agree with OP. If one did not know this was a re-tread job they would be thinking they were getting new tires. :D Not that it really matters, but it does seem that they are spinning this as a whole new ship.

[missdebi]

I am not a newbie, I am a loyal CC fan and we have been on 14 Carnival cruises~I am in the planning stages for our next cruise. I was on the Carnival website yesterday clicked on ships and said to my DH "oh a NEW ship the Sunshine" and until I saw this post I thought it was a NEW ship! So yes it is being marketed as "new".

[jonbgd]

. The interior won't be Farcused up.

They are de-Farcusing the ship.

[bakechef]

A friend that we cruise with thought it was going to be a new ship.

 

Really, it looks like she is being gutted. There isn't going to be much about this ship that isn't new. From what I've read, nothing that the passenger sees will not be new.

 

Granted, it is still an older ship, but it won't feel or look like it.

 

Breathing life into older ships looks like a smart move, instead of leveraging themselves with billion dollar ships and needing to charge increasingly higher fares.

[big_duck]

Breathing life into older ships looks like a smart move, instead of leveraging themselves with billion dollar ships and needing to charge increasingly higher fares.

 

Nobody's arguing that. It is in fact a brilliant idea.

 

This is a discussion about the ethics of marketing the ship as a new build with intent - why else the dumb name change.

[halos]

Nobody's arguing that. It is in fact a brilliant idea.

 

This is a discussion about the ethics of marketing the ship as a new build with intent - why else the dumb name change.

Bingo.

[DarthGrady]

They are de-Farcusing the ship.

 

A good thing, IMO.

 

I'm glad to see CCL finally getting into the habit of refreshing their public areas periodically. Cabin renovations are great, but the public areas are just as important. Anyone who has been into Sensation's piano bar has probably had the same thought.

[eroller]

While I don't necessarily agree that Carnival is misleading regarding its PR for CARNIVAL SUNSHINE, I do feel that this refurbishment is largely about increasing revenue production. I see very little in the way of passenger space enhancements. Yes spaces are being reengineered to be more relevant to the expectations of today's passengers, but I certainly don't see any increase in passenger interior public space, and in fact it appears to be a decrease. One glance at the deck plan really tells the story.

 

What is unfortunate is that the Destiny/Triumph/Conquest Class ships were never that spacious to begin with. In fact they are some of the most crowded ships I've ever sailed. The layout is poor, deck space is lacking, and the buffet especially is inadequate for the number of passengers. Lines, lines, and more lines. Yes Carnival is inexpensive to sail on, but if lines and crowds are your idea of a great vacation then I think the new CARNIVAL SUNSHINE will be for you. I also find the name interesting, considering the fact that Royal Caribbean's new class of ships are code named "Project Sunshine" and have been for some time.

 

Comparing the deck plan of CARNIVAL DESTINY to CARNIVAL SUNSHINE tells the story and here is how I see it ... most of it seems to revolve around the pattern of adding more and more cabins anywhere they could find.

 

Deck 3 - The lower level of the show lounge is removed and transformed into 40 cabins. The rest of Deck 3 is relatively unchanged. The lower level of each dining room is still in place, with the galley in between and no way to walk through from fore to aft.

 

Deck 4 - What used to be a balcony level of the show lounge is now the lower level and a bar has been added. How this will accommodate even 1/3 of the passengers is anyone's guess?

 

The upper level of the midship dining room is now a fee-based speciality restaurant and piano bar. This is not additional public space, just a reallocation of existing space.

 

The rest of deck 4 remains relatively unchanged except the existing cigar lounge is renamed and is perhaps the new nightclub.

 

Deck 5 - The entire public area between the forward shops and the aft Criterion Lounge has been reconfigured. Again no added public space, just a reconfiguration of existing space.

 

Unfortunately the secondary show lounge (Criterion Lounge) has been removed completely and in it's place are 50 cabins. How the ship will function with a much smaller show lounge and no secondary show lounge remains to be seen.

 

Deck 9 - About 10 cabins are added above the bridge, and another 4 behind the atrium well.

 

Some fun new bars and grills have been added around the Lido Pool which is nice, but this area is already pretty crowded. I don't know how it will be with the new areas taking up more deck space. Unfortunately the small main pool is still relatively small for such a large ship.

 

The Lido Buffet is reconfigured and the aft pool and dome are removed completely and closed in. The aft pool now becomes more seating for the buffet and a new Italian restaurant. Again no new public space, just a reallocation of existing space.

 

I feel it's quite unfortunate this pool is being removed as the ship was short on pools to begin with.

 

Deck 10 - The Spa and Fitness center remain unchanged in size although reconfigured. The Camp Carnival is removed and 21 new cabins are added. No additional public space.

 

The midship slide and small slide pool are removed.

 

The upper level of the old Buffet is turned into Camp Carnival.

 

The aft sky dome over the old aft pool is now a deck and Carnival WaterWorks. This really is an addition of public space. The first substantial increase I have seen with the redesign.

 

Deck 11 - The old Club 02 and Circle C for the kids is reallocated to 35 new cabins and a fitness studio.

 

A new pool and limited deck space is added. I don't see a well for the pool on the deck below, so it's quite likely this will be a very shallow type wading pool, but that remains to be seen. It's not really an additional pool since both the aft pool and slide pool have been removed. At least there is the new Carnival Waterworks, and while not exactly a pool it's a wet area that will hopefully keep the kids away for the two other small pools.

 

Deck 12 - 24 new cabins are added and a small deck aft of the cabins reserved as part of adults serenity deck.

 

Deck 14 - A new adults Serenity Deck is added.

 

 

So there you have it. There is some new deck space added which is a great thing, but unfortunately the ship loses a swimming pool in the process.

 

What is more concerning is the elimination of a lot of interior public lounge space that the ship enjoys now, that will soon be cabins.

 

I guess time will tell how it all works out, but it appears the primary motive of this redesign was to add cabins with hopes the remaining public space will absorb all the passengers. I'm guessing the evening shows on CARNIVAL SUNSHINE will be a new concept since there is no longer an aft show lounge, and the main show lounge is substantially smaller and will no longer accommodate almost 1/2 the ship's population like it used to.

 

The elimination of the upper level of the midship dining room also means that Carnival expects more passengers to dine in the speciality restaurants and buffet. The main dining rooms will no longer be able to accommodate 1/2 the ship's passenger compliment per seating like they used to. I would expect to see an expansion of Your Time Dining.

 

Ernie

[maldenmusic]

I don't really care one way or the other

[cruzlovr75]

Yep, I do agree that it is misleading. I just reread their page introducing the Sunshine and if I didn't know better, I would think it was a new ship. Those who are not so cruise crazy like us CC members may have no idea.

 

 

 

Destiny is undergoing a huge change and launching in spring 2013 as Carnival Sunshine.

 

 

I fully agree with this comment.

[keishashadow]

I'm a newbie to Carnival and no, I didn't know it was a retro fit. I saw the main page of their website yesterday and thought, "oh a new ship, I didn't know they built a new ship" and then moved on to look up something else.

 

If it wasn't for this post I wouldn't have known that it was a retro fit.

 

i'm not a CCL noob, but i admit to just reading the headline & 1st few sentences on the CCL site and thinking "cool, a new ship"

 

Nobody's arguing that. It is in fact a brilliant idea.

 

This is a discussion about the ethics of marketing the ship as a new build with intent - why else the dumb name change.

 

Other lines have done the same, but sadly mentioning ethics does ring true to me here. I'm a CCL fan and we loved the Destiny (sailing after she had major engine issues and being past final payment were rather nervous but no problems worth mentioning, all around great trip that might have something to do with it being our 1st aft wrap and HMC;)) but we had planned on booking it again since we actually liked the smaller ship size & 5 day itinerary. Now that she's heading to NO will have to begin hunt to look for another 5 or 6 day CCL offering.

[AdGuyMG]

I know that 182 new cabins are beind added. These new cabins however will not add to the maximum passenger capacity of 3400 on the current Destiny.

 

The lifeboat capacity is 3420 and the deck plan of the Sunshine shows the same 22 lifeboats and 2 emergency boats. Where would 400 extra people be evacuated to if need be?

 

The Destiny has a very large number of cabins (about 450) that accommodate 3rd 4th and 5th passengers on trundle (formerly rollaway) beds. Not all, but many trundles can be limited or done away with to keep the occupancy the same with the new cabins added.

 

The benefit to Carnival is increased revenue as there will be fewer fake (trundle) triples quads and quints booked at the reduced 3rd 4th 5th rate and many more (at least 182) at the 1st / 2nd rate.

 

As an example, use the Fareviewer and check rates for a balcony sleeping 5 on the Destiny on December 20, 2012. They come up.... Then check rates for a balcony cabin on the Sunshine on December 22,2013. There are none.

 

But the # reason there will not be additional passengers above the current 3400 Destiny maximum is the lifeboat capacity.

[Maxiecat3]

If someone tells you that there’s nothing new under the sun, tell them to get aboard Carnival Sunshine! Launching in spring 2013, our newest “Fun Ship” cruising experience will be jam-packed with everything new, everything fun, everywhere you look.

 

I was curious what the web page had to say as I do not cruise on Carnival. The above paragragh is one of the first things you get to read and I agree with most of you that the part that I bolded is bordering on deceptive advertising.

 

Gregg

[jonbgd]

.

 

The lifeboat capacity is 3420 and the deck plan of the Sunshine shows the same 22 lifeboats and 2 emergency boats. Where would 400 extra people be evacuated to if need be?

 

.

They have said they are replacing some of the lifeboats with larger ones

 

"With double-occupancy passenger capacity increasing from about 2,600 to 3,000, Rodriguez noted that the ship will be outfitted with larger lifeboats, and that during the drydocking, all systems will be upgraded, including fire detection and suppression systems, in addition to bridge and navigation systems"

[big_duck]

I know that 182 new cabins are beind added. These new cabins however will not add to the maximum passenger capacity of 3400 on the current Destiny.

 

The lifeboat capacity is 3420 and the deck plan of the Sunshine shows the same 22 lifeboats and 2 emergency boats. Where would 400 extra people be evacuated to if need be?

 

 

Nice try, but it is already been announced by Carnival that there WILL be more passengers on the ship.

 

The Brand Ambassador™ stated on Facebook yesterday that the lifeboats are going to be swapped out for those with larger capacity.

 

Read this http://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/6922-carnival-sunshine-meets-roi-thresholds.html and become an informed commentator.

[BettyCruiser]

I agree with OP, the Carnival website makes it look like a new build. My first thought was it was a 4th Dream class ship, or maybe they had decided to transfer the newest Concordia class to Carnival:confused: I had to look at cruise industry news to get the truth.

 

It will have less passenger space. The space ratio listed for the 'new' sunshine is only 30 cubic feet while the Destiny is listed as 38. But I would like to sail in one of those spa rooms right next to Serenity.:)

[floresskylar]

It basically is a new ship with added decks and total cabin refurbishment,

and all the new public areas. I fail to see any misconception at all.

I don't think anyone who books this ship will be complaining because the hull and the engines are "used"

 

I literally laughed my a$$ off at complaining because the hull and engines are "used" comment. Very well said. It will practically be a new ship once the refurbishments are done. And they are renaming the ship as well. It will be a brand new ship!

[dclark]

I literally laughed my a$$ off at complaining because the hull and engines are "used" comment. Very well said. It will practically be a new ship once the refurbishments are done. And they are renaming the ship as well. It will be a brand new ship!

 

Would you also be laughing your @$$ off if you discovered that the brand new car you bought was actually 14 years old? Yeah, it had a new paint job and interior, but everything was 14 years old? Would that make you chuckle?

[Mikel1733]

I'll wait for the eventual reviews of the Supnshine, but it appears to me there will be crowding at the main dining rooms and main show room. Maybe the designer will turn out to be a genius, but I don't see adding up to 600 additional passengers and have it add to the cruise experience. For Carnival it gives them a new ship feel for Far less than a new build. And the turn around time is much faster than a new build. But color me a skeptic.

[philbob84]

people are naive if they think prices are not going to go up on there refurbished ship.

[MrPete]

They are de-Farcusing the ship.

 

Imagine if they did to the Deathstiny what they did to the Holiday.

 

We could only hope.

[cdamion]

I know that 182 new cabins are beind added. These new cabins however will not add to the maximum passenger capacity of 3400 on the current Destiny.

 

The lifeboat capacity is 3420 and the deck plan of the Sunshine shows the same 22 lifeboats and 2 emergency boats. Where would 400 extra people be evacuated to if need be?

 

The Destiny has a very large number of cabins (about 450) that accommodate 3rd 4th and 5th passengers on trundle (formerly rollaway) beds. Not all, but many trundles can be limited or done away with to keep the occupancy the same with the new cabins added.

 

The benefit to Carnival is increased revenue as there will be fewer fake (trundle) triples quads and quints booked at the reduced 3rd 4th 5th rate and many more (at least 182) at the 1st / 2nd rate.

 

As an example, use the Fareviewer and check rates for a balcony sleeping 5 on the Destiny on December 20, 2012. They come up.... Then check rates for a balcony cabin on the Sunshine on December 22,2013. There are none.

 

But the # reason there will not be additional passengers above the current 3400 Destiny maximum is the lifeboat capacity.

 

Respectfully, this is incorrect. Carnival has specifically stated that they are increasing lifeboat capacity by installing new larger lifeboats. Also, they have specifically stated that they are increasing the total capacity of the ship.

The various articles out there discuss this.

[Aplmac]

I think you are just trying to find something to complain about.

If you don't like the retrofit/new ship don't go on it.

I personally think it is great they are updating their ships.

One would think that by now, the people who design 'passenger flow' into modern ships

have had a bit of experience in the matter and have been thinking about the monumental Destiny refit now

for at least six or seven days

before Carnival signed the refit/dry-dock contract with Fincantieri in Italy. ;)

.

[halos]

While I don't necessarily agree that Carnival is misleading regarding its PR for CARNIVAL SUNSHINE, I do feel that this refurbishment is largely about increasing revenue production. I see very little in the way of passenger space enhancements. Yes spaces are being reengineered to be more relevant to the expectations of today's passengers, but I certainly don't see any increase in passenger interior public space, and in fact it appears to be a decrease. One glance at the deck plan really tells the story.

 

Ernie

 

Absolutely...but the fact is that loyal Carnival passengers don't seem to care....anything can be cut, food quality, service or space on board. All they care about is getting a cheap cruise. That is pretty evident from the posts here. People are very willing to accept these changes and Carnival beards seem well aware of this and they are capiltalizing on it (as they should...they are a business).

 

It's obvious there are two mindsets on CC in regard to CCL of late...the ones who are loyal and love the line and the ones who see the changes and aren't happy. I think the ones that aren't happy will cruise other lines and what this will do is NOT affect CCL's profit. I believe with all my heart they will fill their ships. BUT the demographic of CCL cruiser is going to be vastly different than it was before and this too will change CCL and not for the better imo.

[bobandsherry]

Would you also be laughing your @$$ off if you discovered that the brand new car you bought was actually 14 years old? Yeah, it had a new paint job and interior, but everything was 14 years old? Would that make you chuckle?

I don't see the similarity between buying a car and renting a room for a week.

 

Let's face it, after the first sailing a ship is no longer new even if was built from scratch. Using your car analogy I guess then that you would be happy to buy a car as new even after it had been driven by others for a couple months?