TA Rebates

[bev'sid]

Oh my, what an informative thread! I have been in the travel business in one form or another for 30+ years. My agency does not book a lot of Regent because it doesn't really fit well with the type of groups we coordinate. But, personally, I enjoy Regent cruises and try to go at least once per year. What I have just learned from this thread is that I should NOT be booking my own cruises through my own agency!!

 

Just so you are aware, those of you who are not, agencies who book a relatively small amount of cruises w/ Regent annually, are paid a commission of 10%. Yes, that is the total commission, and it is actually slightly less than that because it is 10% of cruise fare before some govt. taxes. And I am something of a Regent expert, in that I've been sailing with them for a lot of years, so do feel I have something helpful to offer my clients (for whom I handle an occasional booking for a cabin or 2 each year, besides booking for myself)!!

 

In addition, I abide by Regent's request to not do rebates, as that cheapens the overall product (not to mention, a 10% rebate would have me working for less than zero commission)! And trust me, I do *work* with my groups. I do virtually all the leg work, including fact finding, all booking & all modifications, air seat selection & deviation coordination, immigration forms, etc., as my groups don't have the time, nor inclination to do much of the pre-cruise planning & booking.

 

So, basically, I now have learned that if I do not book myself, but act as a client for another agency that gives back 10% plus OBC, I'm way ahead...lol Live & learn!! :cool:

[newlondon]

Thanks Byrds Eye, It makes me feel a lot better that I have not put undue pressure on my TA who works hard but is not a big Regent seller.

[bev'sid]

Thanks Byrds Eye, It makes me feel a lot better that I have not put undue pressure on my TA who works hard but is not a big Regent seller.

 

 

Thank you, for not reducing your TA's contribution to the pursuit of dollars & cents. The service industry, as a whole, really takes a lot of hits sometimes, especially from those who are oblivious...good to know you recognize, and are happy with, the service provided. Gives me some hope... :)

.

[grapejuice]

Thank you wes !!!!

[gillianrose]

Oh my, what an informative thread! I have been in the travel business in one form or another for 30+ years. My agency does not book a lot of Regent because it doesn't really fit well with the type of groups we coordinate. But, personally, I enjoy Regent cruises and try to go at least once per year. What I have just learned from this thread is that I should NOT be booking my own cruises through my own agency!!

 

Just so you are aware, those of you who are not, agencies who book a relatively small amount of cruises w/ Regent annually, are paid a commission of 10%. Yes, that is the total commission, and it is actually slightly less than that because it is 10% of cruise fare before some govt. taxes. And I am something of a Regent expert, in that I've been sailing with them for a lot of years, so do feel I have something helpful to offer my clients (for whom I handle an occasional booking for a cabin or 2 each year, besides booking for myself)!!

 

In addition, I abide by Regent's request to not do rebates, as that cheapens the overall product (not to mention, a 10% rebate would have me working for less than zero commission)! And trust me, I do *work* with my groups. I do virtually all the leg work, including fact finding, all booking & all modifications, air seat selection & deviation coordination, immigration forms, etc., as my groups don't have the time, nor inclination to do much of the pre-cruise planning & booking.

 

So, basically, I now have learned that if I do not book myself, but act as a client for another agency that gives back 10% plus OBC, I'm way ahead...lol Live & learn!! :cool:

 

I fully agree with your post, and think Suite Travels is indeed a cheerleader for the agency he uses (an agency that I dislike, due to the very poor service of one of their agents who could not keep track of anything and gave very faulty information), but FYI you have an illegal link to your own travel agency website where you sell cruises! It's there as a link to your homepage when I click on your screen name. That's a big no no here on Cruise Critic, unless rules have changed. I think the rule is that you can put the name of your agency on your posts (no city name, no phone number, etc.), but we are not supposed to be able to find you so easily.

 

You should disable the link immediately. I have not reported you, but someone else might.

[JMARINER]

I fully agree with your post, and think Suite Travels is indeed a cheerleader for the agency he uses (an agency that I dislike, due to the very poor service of one of their agents who could not keep track of anything and gave very faulty information), but FYI you have an illegal link to your own travel agency website where you sell cruises! It's there as a link to your homepage when I click on your screen name. That's a big no no here on Cruise Critic, unless rules have changed. I think the rule is that you can put the name of your agency on your posts (no city name, no phone number, etc.), but we are not supposed to be able to find you so easily.

 

You should disable the link immediately. I have not reported you, but someone else might.

 

 

You can complain here Community@cruisecritic.com or hostdan@cruisecritic.com

 

J

[gillianrose]

You can complain here Community@cruisecritic.com or hostdan@cruisecritic.com

 

J

 

I thought I was quite clear that I was NOT going to report the poster. I am in agreement with everything she said.

 

Still, she is not supposed to link directly to her own agency.

[Roland4]

I would expect them to rebate back most of the 17% commission or I wouldn't deal with them...

 

So I am guessing from this statement that whatever work it is you do, you work for free?? If your TA should (in your opinion) work for free, or almost for free, why shouldn't you too??:rolleyes:

 

This has been a most interesting discussion. I suspect, though, that a change is coming that will eliminate the practice of rebates. Carnival Corp, which I would point out owns Seabourn, recently introduced a policy banning ALL cash incentives (including OBC's/free hotel stays/frequent flier miles etc) not provided by the line itself. So far no other line has followed suit, but you can bet they are all watching closely. If this new policy moves Seabourn anyone want to bet it won't also move to the other luxe lines?? Other luxe lines already put a "cap" on cash incentives, so it's a short step to ban them entirely. As to enforcement, a major line a few years back suspended the booking rights of a large US-based agency because they refused to stop discounting, so yes, the lines CAN make the change AND make it stick. Just something for all you rebate-hounds to think about as you plan future cruises.

[Host Dan]

So I am guessing from this statement that whatever work it is you do, you work for free?? If your TA should (in your opinion) work for free, or almost for free, why shouldn't you too??:rolleyes:

 

This has been a most interesting discussion. I suspect, though, that a change is coming that will eliminate the practice of rebates. Carnival Corp, which I would point out owns Seabourn, recently introduced a policy banning ALL cash incentives (including OBC's/free hotel stays/frequent flier miles etc) not provided by the line itself. So far no other line has followed suit, but you can bet they are all watching closely. If this new policy moves Seabourn anyone want to bet it won't also move to the other luxe lines?? Other luxe lines already put a "cap" on cash incentives, so it's a short step to ban them entirely. As to enforcement, a major line a few years back suspended the booking rights of a large US-based agency because they refused to stop discounting, so yes, the lines CAN make the change AND make it stick. Just something for all you rebate-hounds to think about as you plan future cruises.

Great post Roland...

 

Host Dan

[Roland4]

Great post Roland...

 

Host Dan

 

Thanks, Dan. I get just a little weary of the "sense of entitlement" that pervades a lot of the posts on this, and other threads, when it comes to TAs and commissions. The last time I checked everyone gets paid for their work, so why should an agent be any different?

[kvisf]

Two thoughts on Roland4's thoughtful and probing posts.

 

First, a TA who does the work should get paid, no question. On the other hand, an agency that has built volume and efficiencies, so as to give good service and get preferred pricing and/or commission incentives from the lines, should be able to compete on price, no? If the line insists on full payment of their advertised rates, then the agent competes on price by rebating.

 

Second, Carnival's action may raise anti-trust issues. I'm sure they've had the questions vetted, but that doesn't mean there won't be challenges on the legal front, as well as from the competition.

[Seabourntraveller]

Thanks, Dan. I get just a little weary of the "sense of entitlement" that pervades a lot of the posts on this, and other threads, when it comes to TAs and commissions. The last time I checked everyone gets paid for their work, so why should an agent be any different?

 

There's a difference between getting "paid" and being GREEDY!:rolleyes:

[sherilyn70]

Second, Carnival's action may raise anti-trust issues. I'm sure they've had the questions vetted, but that doesn't mean there won't be challenges on the legal front, as well as from the competition.

 

I'm sure this is completely legal... most other industries have products with guaranteed pricing as well. I buy many things that are price controlled, such as my mattress (Tempurpedic), makeup (Urban Decay, Smashbox, Benefit), my skin care (Philosophy). The stores are not allowed to discount them or offer any types of incentives that aren't from the manufacturer themselves. This is to ensure fair pricing in both small and large stores. I like knowing that I don't have to price shop and that I have the only price it sells for.

[Roland4]

There's a difference between getting "paid" and being GREEDY!:rolleyes:

 

Expecting to be paid for doing your job is being greedy?? Does that make you greedy, since I assume you insist on being paid for your job.

 

You seem to be making an assumption here that every agent does nothing but Regent bookings and they are all 17%. You are further assuming the agent gets to keep all of that commission. Here is the reality. Regent pays anywhere from 10% to 17%, and while there are some agents/agencies that do nothing but luxe, most don't. After 8 years in the busness (I have always been upfront on these boards about being a TA) I do a very comfortable "six figures" in cruise bookings every year, but only about 5% of that is luxe. The rest is all over the map, and after ALL expenses, my effective rate of commission across my whole book of business is about 5%, which is a lot of $499 Carnivals and $999 Celebritys. That maybe once a year 17% Regent booking represents a lot of "after expense" income. And before suggesting that I should just do luxe bookings, my best client, who cruises three/four times a year, started as a $399 Carnival booking. It's called building a win/win relationship, a concept that appears to be foreign to you.

 

I have no idea what you do for a living, but whatever it is, if I told you that I would only do business with you on the condition that you had to write me a check for $2000 after the deal was done, how quickly would you be pulling out your check book?? If it is fair for you to expect to keep 100% of your income, why does that make a TA who wants to do the same thing greedy??

[Roland4]

Two thoughts on Roland4's thoughtful and probing posts.

 

First, a TA who does the work should get paid, no question. On the other hand, an agency that has built volume and efficiencies, so as to give good service and get preferred pricing and/or commission incentives from the lines, should be able to compete on price, no? If the line insists on full payment of their advertised rates, then the agent competes on price by rebating.

 

The intent of the change in Carnival's policy is to ensure a level playing field between large and small players. They want the competition to be based on service, not price. Interestingly, I read in an independent trade publication last Friday that the change was driven by feedback from small players (which would be expected) but equally from some of Carnival's largest voliume agencies as well.

 

On the anti-trust issue, that would require all of the industry to get together and fix prices, you know, like the oil industry does. What Carnival is doing is setting conditions on an agency's conditions for selling their product, which, as sherilyn70 pointed out, is quite common in retail.

[Seabourntraveller]

Expecting to be paid for doing your job is being greedy?? Does that make you greedy, since I assume you insist on being paid for your job.

 

You seem to be making an assumption here that every agent does nothing but Regent bookings and they are all 17%. You are further assuming the agent gets to keep all of that commission. Here is the reality. Regent pays anywhere from 10% to 17%, and while there are some agents/agencies that do nothing but luxe, most don't. After 8 years in the busness (I have always been upfront on these boards about being a TA) I do a very comfortable "six figures" in cruise bookings every year, but only about 5% of that is luxe. The rest is all over the map, and after ALL expenses, my effective rate of commission across my whole book of business is about 5%, which is a lot of $499 Carnivals and $999 Celebritys. That maybe once a year 17% Regent booking represents a lot of "after expense" income. And before suggesting that I should just do luxe bookings, my best client, who cruises three/four times a year, started as a $399 Carnival booking. It's called building a win/win relationship, a concept that appears to be foreign to you.

 

I have no idea what you do for a living, but whatever it is, if I told you that I would only do business with you on the condition that you had to write me a check for $2000 after the deal was done, how quickly would you be pulling out your check book?? If it is fair for you to expect to keep 100% of your income, why does that make a TA who wants to do the same thing greedy??

 

Actually yes I do go under the assumption that EVERY TA does nothing!

For example I have spent in one calendar year over $75K with one agency and I am the one all the time brining to their attention price drops, combinable promotions etc. therefore if you are not willing to extra work then I'll take the most of your 17% comission since I am the one doing the work save and except making the changes in Polar (if I could I would trust me).

Secondly TA's aren't motivated to follow pricing why?...because when prices drop so too does their comissions.

[RachelG]

If your TA does "nothing", get a new TA or book direct with Regent. I switched TAs because I was always having to watch for price reductions, special promotions, etc. Now I don't worry about that stuff because the TA notifies me if an applicable price reduction or promotion occurs. She hasn't missed one yet, in 5 years. And trust me, I really paid attention at first because of my previous experience.

[Seabourntraveller]

If your TA does "nothing", get a new TA or book direct with Regent. I switched TAs because I was always having to watch for price reductions, special promotions, etc. Now I don't worry about that stuff because the TA notifies me if an applicable price reduction or promotion occurs. She hasn't missed one yet, in 5 years. And trust me, I really paid attention at first because of my previous experience.

 

Problem is my TA gives back the most of any TA's commissions...they are just LAZY and too Big!

[HanaleiSailor]

Problem is my TA gives back the most of any TA's commissions...they are just LAZY and too Big!

 

Well, this goes back to something I proposed in the early days of this discussion. If you are doing all of the work (dealing directly with Regent for the research and the booking), and the TA is passing nearly all of the 17% which Regent pays the agency back to you, then how is this a good deal for Regent?

 

It really complicates the matter in my view--moving money around simply for the sake of moving it. Eventually, there will be a drama when an agent can not or will not pay up on the rebate.

 

It seems to me that you are enabling an incompetent agent to stay afloat. The business model is doomed to eventually fail because it is inefficient, so I guess that one can either take advantage of it before it dies, or why not try to get Regent to do something for frequent cruisers/those that do 100% of their own bookings? Perhaps a price reduction/rebate/large credit on an upcoming cruise?

 

I understand the theory of not allowing discounting by the agents in order to protect the pricing, but then having agents rebate up to 17% makes a farce of the no discounting policy.

[Travelcat2]

Having incentives for passengers who book their own cruises isn't a bad idea. Before that could happen, Regent would have to hire knowledgeable, competant people to handle the phones. As most of us are aware, Customer Service is a very weak area at Regent. The agents probably want to give the correct information but are not kept up to date by their management. Currently, the only way I believe what I am told when I call Regent is to call three times -- different days and different times:confused:

 

On the other hand, now that I've thought it through, it would cut out travel agents completely -- not the right thing to do IMHO.

[Keith1010]

Actually yes I do go under the assumption that EVERY TA does nothing!

For example I have spent in one calendar year over $75K with one agency and I am the one all the time brining to their attention price drops, combinable promotions etc. therefore if you are not willing to extra work then I'll take the most of your 17% comission since I am the one doing the work save and except making the changes in Polar (if I could I would trust me).

Secondly TA's aren't motivated to follow pricing why?...because when prices drop so too does their comissions.

 

If you are doing this the problem is not the commission structure but the problem is you are using the wrong agent and/or agency.

 

I have not read this whole thread but a few comments.

 

-Most agencies do not keep the entire commission amount because those that are not independents pay costs to say the consortiums and of course they have their own overhead costs from advertising to all of the other cost that go in running a business. If it is brick and mortar there are all of those costs.

 

-A good TA can save you a lot of money and can add tremendous value and if things go wrong can be your advocate with the cruise line.

 

-Most agents that I know of are not making loads of money. And they don't just sit on their rears doing nothing. If they were then many people would become an agent.

 

-And many agents today are actually making less on cruises then they did even a few years ago.

 

In every profession there are exceptional, very good, average and below average personnel. I like to go with the ones who fall with erin the exceptional or as close to that categorization as possible and these types of TA's are worth their weight in gold as they can get a lot of very good things done for you to add tremendous value to your cruise.

 

Just my two cents.

 

Keith

[Seabourntraveller]

If you are doing this the problem is not the commission structure but the problem is you are using the wrong agent and/or agency.

 

I have not read this whole thread but a few comments.

 

-Most agencies do not keep the entire commission amount because those that are not independents pay costs to say the consortiums and of course they have their own overhead costs from advertising to all of the other cost that go in running a business. If it is brick and mortar there are all of those costs.

 

-A good TA can save you a lot of money and can add tremendous value and if things go wrong can be your advocate with the cruise line.

 

-Most agents that I know of are not making loads of money. And they don't just sit on their rears doing nothing. If they were then many people would become an agent.

 

-And many agents today are actually making less on cruises then they did even a few years ago.

 

In every profession there are exceptional, very good, average and below average personnel. I like to go with the ones who fall with erin the exceptional or as close to that categorization as possible and these types of TA's are worth their weight in gold as they can get a lot of very good things done for you to add tremendous value to your cruise.

 

Just my two cents.

 

Keith

 

I've used AMEX, large agency in Mississauga, Ontario etc etc...they are all the same, big greedy organizations that do not go the extra mile for you....glad to see that I am the problem.:rolleyes:

[newlondon]

As usual Keith1010 you make a lot of sense. In a previous post a TA pointed out that unless the agency is doing significant Regent business the commission is 10% or slightly more. I would be upset if my TA were getting 17% on my cruises because I do most of the work. On everything else, however, including private shore excursions and total organization of land based add ons or even trips she is worth her weight in gold.

I, therefore, do not begrudge her not paying kickbacks-that's what they are.

I wish you would spend more time on the Regent or SS boards as I value your input. Sorry not to have been able to do Crystal next year but in our opinion the itinerary-nor price just didn't compete.:cool:

[Roland4]

I've used AMEX, large agency in Mississauga, Ontario etc etc...they are all the same, big greedy organizations that do not go the extra mile for you....glad to see that I am the problem.:rolleyes:

 

I work for the largest seller of cruise vacations "north of the border" and I even know the geographic location you are in. Can't say more without getting a wrist slap from Dan. What you described as a TA is more of an order taker than an agent and sure doesn't reflect the attitude of any of the hard working agents that I know. As Keith and others have suggested, maybe it's time for a new agent, but if the "personna" you are projecting here is any indication, you may have a problem finding one.

 

The point to my original post still stands. Change is coming and the days of rebates may very well be numbered.

[Roland4]

As usual Keith1010 you make a lot of sense. In a previous post a TA pointed out that unless the agency is doing significant Regent business the commission is 10% or slightly more. I would be upset if my TA were getting 17% on my cruises because I do most of the work. On everything else, however, including private shore excursions and total organization of land based add ons or even trips she is worth her weight in gold.

I, therefore, do not begrudge her not paying kickbacks-that's what they are.

I wish you would spend more time on the Regent or SS boards as I value your input. Sorry not to have been able to do Crystal next year but in our opinion the itinerary-nor price just didn't compete.:cool:

 

The thing you need to understand is that the "everything else" you refer to is also part of the cruise booking process, and is also where most of the work is involved. For experienced/repeat clients, the actual cruise booking process is the least time consuming part of the package. Putting together "the rest of it" is actually the most enjoyable, and time consuming, part (at least IMHO) and a lot of that pays little, or no, commission. But doing it is part of what a good agent does as part of the entire relationship package. And separates a good agent from an "order taker".