The Snootiest Ship in the DAM fleet!!

[cruz chic]

Joanie I don't think you "caused problems"; there seems to be a notable LACK of clear, consistent information available, and in the past at least, the information rec'd by pax depended on who they spoke with.

 

I know in the case of my friend and me, one person said "no she doesn't need to go to the drill" and "have her watch it on TV". When I questioned that person I was told emphatically "we have it on file" and yet ANOTHER person insisted that she attend, and when I went to the Front Desk to once AGAIN confirm that there was a note on her file regarding needing assistance in the event of an emergency, there was NO note. So it isn't just you who have had a problem with muster drill and bad communication.

 

That's why I was so pleased to see the info Copper provided. It sounds like there is less chance for errors and omissions, and that's a good thing. I provided the link because other posters were suggesting that however YOU resolved your problem would be how other pax should resolve whatever problems they encounter. Your resolution to the issue has no bearing on what is now supposed to be going on, onboard -- hence my link to Solocanadian's thread.

That is the problem, Hal is not consistent whether people will admit it or not. Thank you for bringing the thread up. I had missed it because I was on the ship. It's good info for all.

[mariner]

No, I have not read the link because he is not HAL. If there is a policy, then there should not have been a problem?

[innlady1]

I believe it's HAL's responsibility to say you must attend the drill. If you're unable to, we will deny you boarding. I think that's the clearest way for them to do it.

 

Everyone keeps quoting Copper. Is that HAL's policy?

 

I'm not sure.

 

Chances are very, very good that it is...he is the Security Officer on the Maasdam...has been there for three or so years. I think you can take what he says to the bank, so to speak.

[mariner]

His interpretation of the policy might not be the same as another security officer.

 

I believe Sail asked the question earlier. Where was the companion?

[innlady1]

His interpretation of the policy might not be the same as another security officer.

 

I believe Sail asked the question earlier. Where was the companion?

 

That is a good question, mariner. According to what someone posted, HAL requires that a person who is mobility challenged have a companion to assist them. And, that certainly makes sense.

[cruz chic]

Sure would be nice if you would admit to being wrong instead of going on and on with the same worn out comment. Hal does not act in a consistent way. I'm sorry if it shatters you perfect view of them.

[mariner]

I don't believe Im wrong. Ive responded to the facts as speled out by the OP. And then there's the question hanging out there: Where was the companion?

[startwin]

Here's what I found on HAL's website regarding handicapped passengers and safety drills.

 

I guess this excerpt from HAL's website (thank you Boulder) pretty much confirms that you have to have a capable companion be responsible for you if you are handicapped. Makes sense, and I guess there may come a time where cruising is not an option. However, I wish there was a handout, or some specific instructions on the video, of what to do in an emergency for wheelchair-bound pax.

[hal lover]

I don't believe Im wrong. Ive responded to the facts as speled out by the OP. And then there's the question hanging out there: Where was the companion?

 

WOW, WOW and WOW!

I was not with Joanie on the NA but was with her on the Westerdam the following week. Her companion (husband, Roger) was with her. So there, thats the answer to your burning question.

The moral to all of this that Joanie has posted is that HAL is not consistent with information for the passenger with mobility issues. Yes, in a perfect situation one would hope that the companion would be with the passenger with mobility issues if an actual emergency did arise.

I believe that all passengers should be at the muster drill. Those with mobililty issues really should have a muster drill designed to them. Their needs in an emergency would be different than those of us without mobility issues.

Joanie has raised an important issue here. An issue that could save lives in the event of an actual emergency. I do not feel that Joanie was asking for anything just for herself.

HA and all other cruise lines need to have a plan for those who can not "run" to their lifeboat.

[trixiee]

WOW, WOW and WOW!

I was not with Joanie on the NA but was with her on the Westerdam the following week. Her companion (husband, Roger) was with her. So there, thats the answer to your burning question.

The moral to all of this that Joanie has posted is that HAL is not consistent with information for the passenger with mobility issues. Yes, in a perfect situation one would hope that the companion would be with the passenger with mobility issues if an actual emergency did arise.

I believe that all passengers should be at the muster drill. Those with mobililty issues really should have a muster drill designed to them. Their needs in an emergency would be different than those of us without mobility issues.

Joanie has raised an important issue here. An issue that could save lives in the event of an actual emergency. I do not feel that Joanie was asking for anything just for herself.

HA and all other cruise lines need to have a plan for those who can not "run" to their lifeboat.

 

Hence the requirement for those with mobility issues to have a capable companion. I agree, I don't think it's HAL's responsibility. I'm not picking on anyone on this board. However, if, during an actual emergency, my Lifeboat Captain left me, and 100 other people "at risk" for the sake of helping 1 other passenger, well...

[Wakepatrol]

Are we saying that HAL, who probably has more wheelchairs & scooters then the other lines combined isn't capable of conducting a lifeboat drill to those in wheelchairs and scooters?

 

 

I guess when a thread is titled Snootiest ship in the Dam fleet ,it creates loads of drama... Mission accomplished I guess.

 

It seems like the same people, always end up in the dramatic situations:confused:

[IRL_Joanie]

Are we saying that HAL, who probably has more wheelchairs & scooters then the other lines combined isn't capable of conducting a lifeboat drill to those in wheelchairs and scooters?

 

 

I guess when a thread is titled Snootiest ship in the Dam fleet ,it creates loads of drama... Mission accomplished I guess.

 

It seems like the same people, always end up in the dramatic situations:confused:

 

As of this time I AM saying that HAL and possibly many, if not all, cruise lines are not capable of guaranteeing that they can/will make sure HC/wheelchair/scooter bound passengers will be taken care of in an emergency!!

 

What if it were any of you in my situation?? What if your travel companion was in a different location on the ship at the time of an actual emergency and could not be there to assist you?? WHO THEN would be assisting you???

 

To the people who asked, my hubby was with me, but his knees are so bad that he cannot lift me nor get me over the humps because the wheelchairs and scooters have to literally be picked up and lifted over the humps. Yes I am capable of standing for a few moments, but not without a great deal of pain, at this time, due to a broken back.

 

I ask that you all put yourselves in a HC persons position and think before you post.

 

And no, PD/WP, it is not always dramatics from me. I just happen to pay more attention to some things that you might miss:rolleyes:

 

Joanie

[sail7seas]

Joanie, this is a very helpful and useful converation and it is good it is being discussed.

 

While I am very sorry for your current medical condition, the point raised is valid...... you were not traveling with a capable companion if (no fault of his own) he is not able to assist you adequately to get you to life boat drill. That is the major point coming from this discussion IMO

 

HAL (and probably all cruise lines) require a mobility impaired person who cannot get themselves to life boat drill must be traveling with someone who can do that.

THAT is where your problem arose IMO

 

This is not intended in any way as criticism but it took a lot of posts and a lot of pages to get to the real point. It is up to the guest to abide by the cruise lines rules at the get go. What happens beyond that is another conversation but failure began by you not being able to get to life boat drill without assistance from HAL.

 

Please do not take offense as none is intended but I believe this a very worthwhile conversation.

 

[cruz chic]

Thank you for shining the light on this Joanie. It's certainly a worthwhile discussion (for the most part). Based on HAL's communication does HAL refuse to take money from singles traveling alone? I know they have never refused my money. How do they know ahead of time that I can take care of myself? I sure hope karma doesn't come back to bite some people.

[startwin]

Joanie, I am not being critical of you and I believe that HAL certainly needs to be more specific with regard to handicapped pax, but I believe you answered you own question above.... a wheelchair-bound passenger MUST have a capable companion with them, and your DH wasn't able to help you. With a broken back it must have been very difficult to travel, for both of you, especially if you were flying to the cruise port, and perhaps a cruise should have been postponed until you were more mobile.

[RuthC]

This talk that a disabled person have a companion to assist in getting to muster focuses on the wrong point. Muster is a perfunctory, albeit necessary, exercise.

It is in an actual emergency in which the companion be of assistance, and there is no provision that the companion be with the disabled person at all times. It is rather unrealistic to think that they should never be apart.

Are we to expect that HAL would leave someone to fend for themselves under emergency circumstances? Even a non-disabled person can need assistance under those circumstances, so no one should feel overly confident or smug.

[sail7seas]

Thank you for shining the light on this Joanie. It's certainly a worthwhile discussion (for the most part). Based on HAL's communication does HAL refuse to take money from singles traveling alone? I know they have never refused my money. How do they know ahead of time that I can take care of myself? I sure hope karma doesn't come back to bite some people.

 

That elusive factor seems to be seeping into many areas of our lives.........

 

Personal Responsibility.

 

I do not mean you, Lorekauf, as so far as I know you are an extremely competent, responsible individual but that cannot be said of all these days. Some will never take full responsibility for themselves and always need to find someone else to blame no matter what happens in their lives.

 

Again.... NOT aimed at you. ;)

 

[cruz chic]

That elusive factor seems to be seeping into many areas of our lives.........

 

Personal Responsibility.

 

I do not mean you, Lorekauf, as so far as I know you are an extremely competent, responsible individual but that cannot be said of all these days. Some will never take full responsibility for themselves and always need to find someone else to blame no matter what happens in their lives.

 

Again.... NOT aimed at you. ;)

 

I totally agree with you on the personal responsibility. I'm all about that and I do mention that on a regular basis. In the case of HAL I really do think that HAL has a shared responsibility. It's all fine and dandy for them to wash their hands of this responsibility but then they should make that crystal clear upon booking. They should also get used to their ships going out a lot more empty. I wonder how many of their present clients would be able to sail under the expectation that they are on their own to fend for themselves.

[sail7seas]

It is on their website.

One needs to read.

I have not checked but I would venture it is in their cruise documents..... all those many pages that some of us do not print probably has language about a competent traveling companion for a disabled/immobile passenger.

 

Yes, HAL has responsibility at a given point and Copper John explained it. I have no reason to think he got it wrong.

 

If a person who wishes to travel cannot get themselves to life boat drill, they likely should not be selecting a cruise for their vacation.

 

It isn't heartless or cold..... it is practical and for their safety. It is very close to common sense. IMO (Once again, you can always count on me to be direct and straight forward. :o )

I in no way am being judgmental or insulting.... I am being practical. If I could not get myself to life boat drill and I did not have someone to travel with who could help me, I would not/could not cruise.

 

[jbhcw]

Our longest Hal cruise was to Hawaii a few years ago...I vividly remember so many more canes, walkers, wheelchairs and scooters...I thought to myself then...When the day comes that I cannot navigate on my own...what would I do...I told my husband then...and every time I see someone in a wheelchair being pushed by a companion...that is truly real love to take care of another like that on someplace like a cruise ship..

 

I can foresee my day coming...really bad knees and bad back...and have decided if I cannot get there on my own...I probably will not go...I am of the generation that was taught never ask anyone to do anything you can't do for yourself, still struggle with trying to do things I really probably shouldn't be doing.

 

Even if my husband could get me where I wanted to go..I feel the burden on him would be too much...he is older but in much better shape...I just would not be comfortable knowing I couldn't try to abandon ship on my own.

 

The Costa Concordia really made me stop and think...I am mobile now..but am not sure I could have gone down a ladder on the side of the ship, the older I get the more escape plans I have in my head and the more I worry about it.

 

Joanie...I admire you for you willingness to cruise while not well...and also admire your husband for being your helper but have you ever really thought what would happen if you had to get off the ship and no one came for you?

 

Again as other posters have said...not saying this to make anyone angry..just my feelings.

[Candy]

I know, hindsight is 20/20. When the escort did not come, I would have found the elevator provided for accessible use and made my way to the appointed station, getting as close as possible to the door. During either a drill or actual emergency, there would be many crew members to assist me.

[496and706]

As soon as we got on board on Nov. 5, my in laws informed their cabin stewards that they would need the elevator to get to the drill. When the drill was announced, my inlaws were escorted to the closest elevator and then to their life boat station. They weren't escorted back to their cabin, but they were able to get an elevator back up to the 8th floor. Same thing on the second half of our cruise. They told the room steward early in the morning and were able to get down on the elevator.

 

MY opinions are below. Do not read if you are a sensitive flower. Please do not flame me until you have done my job for as long as I have. Keep in mind that sometimes my job is with every type of differently abled type of person out there.

 

 

 

Now for MY opinion on a couple of things. Please keep in mind that I work with the "disabled" close to 60 hours a week for more than 10 years.

 

Some of them are very angry that they have become unable. A lot of them only see their own needs and not the rest of the world going on around them. Life is all about them. They are in pain and not happy that it happened to them. Never mind the fact that thousands and thousands of other people are also disabled. The company I work for has 45 THOUSAND customers (in a population of less than 1 million) that have some sort of disability in some form and need a doctor's note to get our service. Unfortunately this means I will always have a job until I choose to retire. I will be working every day for the next 2 weeks because people in chairs want to be able to be with family and friends on the holidays and they are entitled to transportation 24/7/365.

 

Sometimes my company requires that the customer has a companion with them at all times. I cannot tell you how many times I have to remind the companion to stay BESIDE the disabled person. Sometimes the disabled person is not in a chair. Maybe they are fully capable of walking, but maybe they are blind or mentally challenged or whatever. There are times that I think the best solution would be a collar and leash attached to the assistant. :D

 

My job has caused me to open my eyes to the accessibility of the world around me. Even though I am not at work when I am on a HAL ship, I have seen how wonderfully accessible those ships are for the most part. I have also noticed that sometimes the buttons on the walls to open some doors don't work. I have also used the accessible washrooms to check to see how they rated. ;)

 

Sometimes people that have a temporary disability or something that has happened due to age or accident... in other words, they weren't born that way... are the worst type of people to try to deal with in my job.

 

I am certain that HAL tries very hard to accommodate most of the peopple most of the time, but if your husband or wife or significant other isn't able to look after you, then pay for someone to come along on your trip, and tell them from the time they are hired that they MUST stay within arm's reach for the entire duration of the cruise. Even if it means that you need to go buy a collar and leash. ;)

[Wakepatrol]

How many of you would suffer a broken back and still go on a rolling and bouncing, pitching and polling cruise ship:confused:

 

Just wondering

[peaches from georgia]

How many of you would suffer a broken back and still go on a rolling and bouncing, pitching and polling cruise ship:confused:

 

Just wondering

I would follow my doctor's opinion knowing he had my best interests at heart and if he said 'no cruise' I would know it was for a valid medical reason and not go. I understand Joanie wanting to cruise, but we can't always do what we want to do and she went against her doctor's advice she said.

 

I think most of what happened after she got on the ship stems from that decision and from not being able to follow HAL's clearly stated policy about getting to the drill without HAL's help. Communications between HAL crew members may not have been the best, but blaming others doesn't change the fact that HAL has a strict drill policy that couldn't be followed. It is unfair to expect HAL to make special exceptions and then criticize the staff and crew.

 

I feel sorry for her with all that occured, but worse than the drill would have been if there was a real emergency during that cruise. With so many physically challenged pax on a typical HAL cruise and the chaos that could ensue if all pax had to get to a life boat for real, I would not depend on crew being able to get to me for rescue and would not cruise if I wasn't able to take care of myself or knew my caretaker would be with me at all times and be capable of transporting me and himself to safety. In the case of a broken back and/or other serious medical issues I would have followed my doctors orders and cancelled this b2b cruise. JMHO and what I would choose to do.

[innlady1]

How many of you would suffer a broken back and still go on a rolling and bouncing, pitching and polling cruise ship:confused:

 

Just wondering

 

Not I. For sure.

Especially against doctor's wishes.