The Snootiest Ship in the DAM fleet!!

[cruz chic]

<snip>

 

I think most of what happened after she got on the ship stems from that decision and from not being able to follow HAL's clearly stated policy about getting to the drill without HAL's help. Communications between HAL crew members may not have been the best, but blaming others doesn't change the fact that HAL has a strict drill policy that couldn't be followed. It is unfair to expect HAL to make special exceptions and then criticize the staff and crew.

Hal's strict policy? Sorry, I don't agree. They "may" have a policy but they probably don't follow it. Why didn't they mention their "policy" at any time to Joanie if it's so strict?

[startwin]

I would follow my doctor's opinion knowing he had my best interests at heart and if he said 'no cruise' I would know it was for a valid medical reason and not go. I understand Joanie wanting to cruise, but we can't always do what we want to do and she went against her doctor's advice she said.

 

I think most of what happened after she got on the ship stems from that decision and from not being able to follow HAL's clearly stated policy about getting to the drill without HAL's help. Communications between HAL crew members may not have been the best, but blaming others doesn't change the fact that HAL has a strict drill policy that couldn't be followed. It is unfair to expect HAL to make special exceptions and then criticize the staff and crew.

 

I feel sorry for her with all that occured, but worse than the drill would have been if there was a real emergency during that cruise. With so many physically challenged pax on a typical HAL cruise and the chaos that could ensue if all pax had to get to a life boat for real, I would not depend on crew being able to get to me for rescue and would not cruise if I wasn't able to take care of myself or knew my caretaker would be with me at all times and be capable of transporting me and himself to safety. In the case of a broken back and/or other serious medical issues I would have followed my doctors orders and cancelled this b2b cruise. JMHO and what I would choose to do.

 

I hate to admit that I have never read the policy on their website about travelling with a handicap, and having to have a capable companion. We've always taken responsibility ourselves, but maybe HAL really does need to make it more evident to people. I know some airlines can refuse to have you fly with them if they consider your handicap too severe, and some ask for a doctor's authorization. As Joanie travelled against her doctor's orders, I wonder if that would have nullified her insurance if she had become sick or been injured.

 

At the very least, this thread has gotten us all thinking.

[boulders]

Hal's strict policy? Sorry, I don't agree. They "may" have a policy but they probably don't follow it. Why didn't they mention their "policy" at any time to Joanie if it's so strict?

 

It's in the cruise contract. Here

 

For these reasons, we request that if you have any special medical, physical or other requirements, these be brought to our attention immediately upon receipt of this contract. In limited situations where you would be unable to satisfy certain specified safety and other criteria, even when provided with appropriate auxiliary aids and services, we reserve the right to refuse permission to participate in all or part of the Cruise, Cruisetour and/or Land Trips.

[peaches from georgia]

Hal's strict policy? Sorry, I don't agree. They "may" have a policy but they probably don't follow it. Why didn't they mention their "policy" at any time to Joanie if it's so strict?

 

(QUOTE: JOANIE) "Apparently, the Staff Captain decided that my ailments were not good enough and I received a letter the next morning directing me to a 5:00 pm Make Up Drill on the Promenade Deck under Life Boat 1 and that if I was not there I would be put off the ship at the next port....."

 

While the concierge dealing face to face with Joanie got her some help for the Makeup Drill, it certainly sounds like the Staff Captain, who would have the power to put her off the ship for violating official policy, considers not getting down to the drill a strict rule that he will not allow no matter what the medical condition of the pax. The fact that no one came to transport her on embarkation day after she asked for a crew member to come to her cabin sounds like it is not standard procedure to do so and it was only the concierge who helped on Day 2 when it would have meant being kicked off the ship.

[cruz chic]

It's in the cruise contract. Here

So does HAL enforce it? Of course they don't. It appears that it's nothing more then a suggestion. If this is something that they are strict about they do need to enforce it.

 

Sort of off the subject HAL states they will put you off the ship for not attending the drill. Every cruise I've taken lately has SEVERAL people that don't appear for the drill. I haven't seen one person put off the ship. So much for HAL strict policies.

[CowPrincess]

So does HAL enforce it? Of course they don't. It appears that it's nothing more then a suggestion.

 

.... just like the dress code ;)

[sapper1]

.... just like the dress code ;)

 

Rats-----you took the words right out of my mouth and beat me to it. :D

[cruz chic]

.... just like the dress code ;)

LOVE it:D!

[OVgirl]

After reading this thread, I also just read through the 16 pages that are sent along with our Express Boarding Pass (I just did the happy dance:D ).

Close to the top of the second column on Page 2 (which is the one right after the actual boarding pass), there is a line that states that a steward will assist those with special needs to their muster stations.

It seems that might be the only place one can find that statement.

 

This whole thread does give us all something to think about and also to educate ourselves regarding the actual policies for HAL.

[celle]

(QUOTE: JOANIE) "Apparently, the Staff Captain decided that my ailments were not good enough and I received a letter the next morning directing me to a 5:00 pm Make Up Drill on the Promenade Deck under Life Boat 1 and that if I was not there I would be put off the ship at the next port....."

 

While the concierge dealing face to face with Joanie got her some help for the Makeup Drill, it certainly sounds like the Staff Captain, who would have the power to put her off the ship for violating official policy, considers not getting down to the drill a strict rule that he will not allow no matter what the medical condition of the pax. The fact that no one came to transport her on embarkation day after she asked for a crew member to come to her cabin sounds like it is not standard procedure to do so and it was only the concierge who helped on Day 2 when it would have meant being kicked off the ship.

 

What it sounds like to me is that the letter Joanie was sent was just a "boilerplate" letter, sent routinely to everyone who did not attend the drill.

 

Rather than the Staff Captain considering Joanie's ailments "not sufficient", I doubt if he was even aware of them. It was just the "standard" letter that she was given.

 

Maybe Joanie could have got herself to the correct deck for the drill, and then blocked the doorway when her scooter could not get over that pesky lip? Someone surely would then have managed to help her negotiate the obstacle.

 

Shouldn't the lifeboat station be handicap-accessible?

[sail7seas]

So does HAL enforce it? Of course they don't. It appears that it's nothing more then a suggestion. If this is something that they are strict about they do need to enforce it.

 

Sort of off the subject HAL states they will put you off the ship for not attending the drill. Every cruise I've taken lately has SEVERAL people that don't appear for the drill. I haven't seen one person put off the ship. So much for HAL strict policies.

 

 

Captain PJ on Westerdam absolutely had guest(s ?) removed for failure to attend life boat drill.

 

It has been posted here in the past and was verified while we were aboard.

 

I would not suggest 'testing' your theory on any HAL ship as you could find yourself, quite unceremoniously, removed from the ship. Don't do it...... they mean it.

 

[Laminator]

After reading this thread, I also just read through the 16 pages that are sent along with our Express Boarding Pass (I just did the happy dance:D ).

Close to the top of the second column on Page 2 (which is the one right after the actual boarding pass), there is a line that states that a steward will assist those with special needs to their muster stations.

It seems that might be the only place one can find that statement.

 

This whole thread does give us all something to think about and also to educate ourselves regarding the actual policies for HAL.

 

Unlike the dress code where the terms "suggest" and "asked" are used the emergency passenger drill states that it is mandatory.

[cruz chic]

Captain PJ on Westerdam absolutely had guest(s ?) removed for failure to attend life boat drill.

 

It has been posted here in the past and was verified while we were aboard.

 

I would not suggest 'testing' your theory on any HAL ship as you could find yourself, quite unceremoniously, removed from the ship. Don't do it...... they mean it.

 

Surely, you can't be serious! You must really think I'm stupid to think I would test that theory. That's pretty much the most insulting thing that I've read. Anyone that knows anything about me knows that I follow rules to a fault.

 

Did you actually see these people put off? I've never seen that. Anyone can say it's happened. I can't tell you that has not happened on my 3 HAL cruises this year.

[RuthC]

I would not suggest 'testing' your theory on any HAL ship as you could find yourself, quite unceremoniously, removed from the ship. Don't do it...... they mean it.

I know HAL means it sometimes, as it is well known that at least one party was removed from a ship for not participating in muster.

I also know that on other cruises passengers have been allowed to attend a make-up drill the next day, as I was aboard, and saw the group meet.

Again, this goes back to the inconsistency that HAL displays so often. Whatever happened to "Say what you mean, and mean what you say"?

[sail7seas]

Surely, you can't be serious! You must really think I'm stupid to think I would test that theory. That's pretty much the most insulting thing that I've read. Anyone that knows anything about me knows that I follow rules to a fault.

 

Did you actually see these people put off? I've never seen that. Anyone can say it's happened. I can't tell you that has not happened on my 3 HAL cruises this year.

 

 

I could not be more serious.

I know it to be true that guest (s ?) was/were removed from Westerdam at the order of Captain PJ for failure to attend.

 

You need not be insulted as my post was meant for all who read here. IF they wish to believe it is an empty threat, they would be very wrong and could be very sorry to have not taken HAL at their word. They take Life Boat Drill very seriously, as most of us well know, and just because you have not seen anyone removed, you do not know that is has happened and you do not know how many times. How would you know if someone was crossing the gangway into the terminal in Port Everglades? You would not necessarily know about such activity even if you were on the ship when it happened.

 

 

 

[nana51]

My sister is in a wheelchair and can stand and even take a few steps, yet I'm not sure cruising is for her. There is NO way I would cruise or go with someone who is so severely disabled they are unable to get to every place on the ship without help. I can't imagine going with a broken back. Wait until you are better.

[CowPrincess]

From IRL_joanie's first post

 

Prior to Sail Away from Port Everglades I called the Neptune Lounge and asked to meet with my Life Boat Captain in order to show how nearly impossible it was for me in my scooter and broken back to get to the Drill. The young Lady, forgot her name sorry, called me about 5 minutes later and told me that since I had been on 9 cruise s with HAL previously, did not have to attend the drill, but also asked that I re-familiarize myself with the drill via the TV and the Life Vests themselves, which I did. Hubby also told the Crew Member (Lifeboat Captain?? and he told him he'd already been notified and not to worry.) Apparently, the Staff Captain decided that my ailments were not good enough and I received a letter the next morning directing me to a 5:00 pm Make Up Drill on the Promenade Deck under Life Boat 1 and that if I was not there I would be put off the ship at the next port........I called our concierge and talked to Gilbert and he arranged for a Crew Member to come and get me in a Ship manual wheelchair and take me to the drill. He said I was to stay in my stateroom and the crew member would get me at a little before 5 pm....NOT!!!!!!! 5 pm came and went (along with the AC) and no one came except Gilbert who was coming to check our AC problem (Which also affect ALL of the Aft Wrap Staterooms.) When he saw I was still waiting he called his supervisor and THEY made sure I got to the Drill. Even with the Wheel Chair it took 3 crew members to get me over that freaking arch that separates the inside from the promenade. BUT I made it!!

 

Moral is: Crew does not communicate and I will get as close as possible to my station and sit there and wait until someone notices me and assists me in getting out there. This is not only my problem but also the problem of most of us who are in wheel chairs and scooters......I will no longer assume that a crew member will be there in an emergency situation on the Nieuw Amsterdam

 

 

red bolding mine

 

Representatives of HAL told her that

a) first, she didn't need to attend muster drill, then

b) that when she HAD to attend, she would have assistance

 

.... just like I experienced with my friend, no one seemed to know the definitive answer, and no one seemed interested enough to ensure that whatever was required was done. Zero follow-through. I knew that if my friend and I had an emergency, I was by default, (due to lack of interest, lack of understanding, and lack of communication between staff) going to be the only one responsible for getting her to the lifeboat station.

 

No matter how much anyone tries to make IRL_Joanie the one at fault here, her report of events damns HAL. I wasn't there, I don't know exactly what transpired, but I most certainly know what transpired with my mobility-impaired friend, and that was absolutely consistent with Joanie's experience.

[mariner]

In the wake of the Costa disaster, all cruise lines are enforcing drill attendance and passengers are sent packing.

 

Those who are bemoaning the lack of HAL's consistency should be careful what they wish for. Officers who were willing to give the benefit of the doubt might go by the letter of the contract.

 

I haven't taken a long cruise in quite a while. But it used to be the ship's doctor was on the pier observing the boarding passengers and anyone who looked at risk health wise was denied boarding. And they didn't get a refund.

[sail7seas]

In the wake of the Costa disaster, all cruise lines are enforcing drill attendance and passengers are sent packing.

 

Those who are bemoaning the lack of HAL's consistency should be careful what they wish for. Officers who were willing to give the benefit of the doubt might go by the letter of the contract.

 

I haven't taken a long cruise in quite a while. But it used to be the ship's doctor was on the pier observing the boarding passengers and anyone who looked at risk health wise was denied boarding. And they didn't get a refund.

 

 

You're right, Mariner.

 

We have seen ship's nurse roaming around the terminal during embarkation and have seen her/him speaking with guests who might have answered the health survey a certain way or perhaps 'looked' ill.... as in Noro sort of ill.

 

[mariner]

I love the ladies in the Neptune Lounge. Unfortunatly, they are often programmed to transmit and not receive. And I think they're taught never to saw no to a passenger.

 

She should have said "I can't make this decision. There's no one I can ask because everyone is busy with boarding. I'll try to get an answer, but you'll have to attend the drill unless I hear otherwise."

[Wakepatrol]

Unlike the dress code where the terms "suggest" and "asked" are used the emergency passenger drill states that it is mandatory.

 

 

Let's make an amendment to the dress code. If you show up to the dining room dressed like a bum,the captain puts you ashore at the next port

 

They'll wish they made room in their luggage for a necktie:)

[CowPrincess]

I love the ladies in the Neptune Lounge. Unfortunatly, they are often programmed to transmit and not receive. And I think they're taught never to saw no to a passenger.

 

She should have said "I can't make this decision. There's no one I can ask because everyone is busy with boarding. I'll try to get an answer, but you'll have to attend the drill unless I hear otherwise."

 

So how exactly is that the fault of the passengers? Seems pretty difficult to absolve HAL of blame using your rationale.

[cruz chic]

I could not be more serious.

I know it to be true that guest (s ?) was/were removed from Westerdam at the order of Captain PJ for failure to attend.

 

You need not be insulted as my post was meant for all who read here. IF they wish to believe it is an empty threat, they would be very wrong and could be very sorry to have not taken HAL at their word. They take Life Boat Drill very seriously, as most of us well know, and just because you have not seen anyone removed, you do not know that is has happened and you do not know how many times. How would you know if someone was crossing the gangway into the terminal in Port Everglades? You would not necessarily know about such activity even if you were on the ship when it happened.

Right, you meant it for others:rolleyes:. I have eyes that are functioning perfectly, that's how I happen to know it hasn't happened on my cruises. Maybe I also have some close personal friends on the ship that might tell me otherwise. Really, I think I'll just arrange for a m&g for the same time as the drill so I can choose that instead of going:rolleyes:.

[mariner]

It's the fault of the passenger for saying "look, I got onboard but I can't make the drill." It's easy to blame the concierge, who gets paid less than the steward.

[cruz chic]

So how exactly is that the fault of the passengers? Seems pretty difficult to absolve HAL of blame using your rationale.

Stop being logical:D and start repeating this "HAL can do no wrong, Hal can do no wrong"...........