Holland America Lines Disasterdam

[jtl513]

I am attaching copies of my original certified birth certificate here ...

Sorry, somehow I missed seeing this post before, and therefore didn't know you had proof of your father's citizenship with you.

 

If HAL doesn't eventually come around and give you a full refund plus expenses of plane change etc, I think you should hire a lawyer in Seattle! :) Good luck!

Edited February 17, 2013 by jtl513

[jtl513]

... especially since it was the HAL reps who told you in the first place that you wouldn't even need the passport card that you asked about!! :eek:

 

I believe they were right, and the Captain or somebody else in FL was wrong.

Edited February 17, 2013 by jtl513

[peaches from georgia]

Enough with the passports already. He gets it. We have to go back in the past as to what he knew at the time he asked questions of HAL about hhis documentation. Not an experienced cruiser or traveler like those here on this board. Telling him how stupid he was is unfair. He didnt know enough to either ask all the questions he should have or know where to research.

 

He did exactly what I imagine I would have done- ask the cruiseline he booked with on what he needs to get on their ship. I would assume they would know and if they didnt would direct me on where to get official travel info. He talked with 2 HAL reps including a Supervisor who certainly should have been able to know or tell him where to check further if she wasn't absolutely sure. All she had to do was read him from HAL's website. Blaming him for believing a HAL rep is ridiculous. It takes some experience to know often the customer service reps don't know what they are talking about but won't admit it. I think ejammer did exactly what a new cruiser would do and had full confidence what 2 HAL reps told him would be correct. They said he was good to board. That should have been enough or why allow any reps to ever answer a question to begin

with.

 

Edit: from what says went on in FL it sounds like the non-board decision was from the Captain with no opportunity to discuss, explain, or mediate. I agree with jtl513.

Edited February 17, 2013 by peaches from georgia

[CruisenLexie]

I don't know how much traveling the OP has done but at least this was his first cruise. Some people need to remember how it was on their very first trip. He asked HAL, apparently twice, and they told him he would be ok. Was there some misunderstanding on HALs end? Could be. You can cruise with a raised seal original birth certificate from what I have been told and that may refer to only a US birth certificate if leaving from the US, I'm not sure. Either way it is obvious the OP is very dissappinted and now angry as he feels left high and dry with no real assistance from HAL. If HAL was smart they would meet him somewhere in the middle. If there was something in writing HAL should be on the hook period. If not, meeting these customers half-way might be a way to gain a customer for life.

 

I was going to mention using a travel agent but it sounds like you used one. I would think a travel agent would know this or would have checked into this situation on your behalf. If she or he did that would be one more person to verify your story to HAL.

 

This has probably alrady been mentioned but I wonder how insurance would have worked in this situation. Cancel for any reason insurance?

 

I watched a show on this before and the employees that have to deal with this at the port are not happy when they have to turn someone away. They were calling people and trying to fax passports and doing whatever they could to get people on board. I know I would not want that job.

 

This was a very expensive and disappointing experience but do yourself a favor and get passports and plan another cruise in the future. Go through Celebrity, Royal Caribbean, Princess or another line and have a great time.

 

Sorry for the mess and dissappointment, fight it as long as you choose to, and if things don't turn out the way you want them to just drop it and move on. Don't dwell on it and let it make you crazy as hard as that may be.

[English_in_Spain]

OP, I meant no offence by my previous post but I felt I had to ask you the question.

 

I am sure, if you take this to arbitration, they will ask the same question.

 

I remember a situation a couple of years ago when a couple were refused permission to board when the cruise line thought they had drugs with them. It turned out that it was just regular smoking tobacco.

 

When more details came to light, it turned out that the Captain had, in fact, refused boarding because the gentleman had become aggressive.

 

[jtl513]

I don't know how much traveling the OP has done but at least this was his first cruise.

from post # 106:

and have never traveled outside of the U.S. since arriving here at 8 months old' date=' [/quote']

[Cruzin Terri]

... especially since it was the HAL reps who told you in the first place that you wouldn't even need the passport card that you asked about!! :eek:

 

I believe they were right, and the Captain or somebody else in FL was wrong.

I agree with you and I think he needs to take this up with Guest Services in Seattle. He has been in touch with a travel ombudsman who will help him get to the right people and say the right things to straighten this out.

 

I think that to continue to belabor the fact that he needed a passport is counterproductive. How many more times does he need to see this in print.

Terri

[ejammer]

Unfortunately I can not read that, even if I save the image and zoom in. (the text gets too pixilated) Can you enlarge the jpg and re-post or cut-and-paste the text directly into the body of a post? Thanks.

I see what you mean. Wonder if others have had this problem reading it? Can't copy and paste a jpg text though. I tried enlarging, uploading in various formats, etc., but none of those worked either. Fortunately though, as an additional backup, I also made a screen shot copy of the convo, and saved that too as a pdf (I'm overly cautious that way, and consequent have way too many saved files. My wife calls me a "file hoarder", but one never knows when you may need something. :)). So, I will attach that version here now too. I believe it may be more readable.

Holland America Documentation CHAT CONVO.pdf

[jtl513]

I see what you mean. Wonder if others have had this problem reading it? Can't copy and paste a jpg text though.

Yes, the pdf worked great - thank you. Reading that was what swung me fully to your side ... that you had made sure they understood that the B.C. was not from a US state or territory. IMO the Captain was wrong. If Guest Services that Terri suggested does not satisfy you, then escalate it to a lawsuit! Edited February 17, 2013 by jtl513

[sail7seas]

I could not read your original copy of the conversation but this attached pdf is very readable. Thank you for going to the trouble to supply that to us.

 

After reading that conversation, I owe you an apology. I was unaware exactly how direct your questions were and how to the point. You asked the right questions, you tried to verify and you got the wrong answers.

 

IMO, HAL is very wrong to not at least schedule you for another cruise or refund all monies you paid them. I'm not sure about the additional airfare etc but something extra would be an appropriate gesture.

 

There is a Customer Service rep at HAL Seattle Headquarters responsible for every ship. Their job is to deal with customer's issues after a cruise has sailed. You would fit into that category. I do not know the name for your ship but enough questioning at a Customer Service Telephone number should result in your getting that person's name/extension.

 

I would deal with that person not 'whoever happens to answer the phone' rep. You have already learned some are poorly trained and likely do not have the authority to work with you on this issue.

 

I am sorry I made 'assumptions' about what efforts you made in advance of your cruise to make certain you had the documents you need. You made reasonable effort IMO and it is GOOD that you saved a screen shot of that conversation. Pretty good evidence IMO

 

Good luck.

Edited February 17, 2013 by sail7seas

[ejammer]

I was going to mention using a travel agent but it sounds like you used one. I would think a travel agent would know this or would have checked into this situation on your behalf. If she or he did that would be one more person to verify your story to HAL.

 

This has probably alrady been mentioned but I wonder how insurance would have worked in this situation. Cancel for any reason insurance?

 

Don't dwell on it and let it make you crazy as hard as that may be.

 

My travel agent who cruises frequently, also assured me, as many on here have too, that while it may be a good idea to have a passport in case of emergency, since this was a closed-loop cruise, one would not be required. That is when I got on the HAL website chat line to confirm that.

 

We booked the cruise about a month prior, and being the overly optimistic soul that I am, declined the insurance. Oh, btw it is unnecessary to start beating me up about that now too. I get it. Passport! Insurance! My travel agent says the insurance would not have covered this particular incident anywho.

 

Not crazy...yet. ;) I've actually spend more time dwelling on this on here this weekend than I have since it happened. It has been very informative and helpful though, and I have already heard back from one ombudsman. We are working on that snail mail appeal suggestion too. It's been cold and rainy here in east Tennessee all weekend, so it's been a perfect time to stay inside, get some of this off my chest, and get edumacated some by you nice seasoned travel peeps.

[sail7seas]

<snip>

 

We booked the cruise about a month prior, and being the overly optimistic soul that I am, declined the insurance. Oh, btw it is unnecessary to start beating me up about that now too. I get it. Passport! Insurance! My travel agent says the insurance would not have covered this particular incident anywho.

 

<snip>

 

 

You're right,

 

It is likely most insurance would fail to pay a claim in this circumstance.

 

[sapper1]

My travel agent who cruises frequently, also assured me, as many on here have too, that while it may be a good idea to have a passport in case of emergency, since this was a closed-loop cruise, one would not be required. That is when I got on the HAL website chat line to confirm that.

 

We booked the cruise about a month prior, and being the overly optimistic soul that I am, declined the insurance. Oh, btw it is unnecessary to start beating me up about that now too. I get it. Passport! Insurance! My travel agent says the insurance would not have covered this particular incident anywho.

 

Not crazy...yet. ;) I've actually spend more time dwelling on this on here this weekend than I have since it happened. It has been very informative and helpful though, and I have already heard back from one ombudsman. We are working on that snail mail appeal suggestion too. It's been cold and rainy here in east Tennessee all weekend, so it's been a perfect time to stay inside, get some of this off my chest, and get edumacated some by you nice seasoned travel peeps.

 

I truly hope that you are able to get some satisfaction in this matter. Please let us know how you make out. I know that we will all be anxious to hear.

[jtl513]

You asked the right questions, you tried to verify and you got the wrong answers.

IMO he got the right answers there and the wrong one from the Captain ... but no matter which, HAL should make this right! Edited February 17, 2013 by jtl513

[stlouistravelers]

Before I could bring my son home in the 80's I had to register him at the embassy and get him a passport before I could bring him home.

[jayjaycan]

Lessa123, No, I have not posted this previously on this site. I have, however, shared this horrific experience on a few other venues, and will continue to do so, in hopes of helping others avoid this experience. Perhaps you read one of those (or are having a psychic experience about one I haven't yet posted somewhere else), or perhaps you read another similar one, as I am confident I am not the only one who has experienced this type of tragedy with Holland America Lines: http://www.consumeraffairs.com/travel/holland.html

 

You must have been living in a bunker somewhere.It is inconceivable that anyone in the world would think they can travel outside their own country without a pasport.

Any travel agent would advise you as part of their responsibility and it is clearly recorded in HAl's advice to cruisers.

You must accept the blame for your own carelessness and not blame others.

 

You can tell the whole world about your experiene but you are not likely to generate much sympathy.

[jtl513]

You must have been living in a bunker somewhere.It is inconceivable that anyone in the world would think they can travel outside their own country without a pasport.

You must not have read about half of this thread! It is entirely possible to take a closed loop cruise to the Caribbean without a passport. I would bet that were dozens without them on the cruise that barred him. There were somewhere around 1,000 on the Carnival Triumph without passports.

 

It's risky, but perfectly legal. In this case, I and several others believe HAL is in the wrong.

Edited February 17, 2013 by jtl513

[Northshorecruisers]

When I originally saw the posting on this, I read what the OP had to say and thought "You should have had a passport". Closed the thread.

 

Today I came back to see what was beng said and read the pdf that was posted of the chat between the OP and HAL. You definately asked the appropriate questions and with the responses you received from HAL, I can see why you didn't get a passport.

 

I certainly hope they can make you whole on this. That would have been a terrible experience to go through, not to mention all the anticipation for the cruise only to be left standing on the dock.

 

Please come back and let us know how HAL deals with this.

[LAFFNVEGAS]

IMO he got the right answers there and the wrong one from the Captain ... but no matter which, HAL should make this right!

John, I am still not so sure it was the Captain who ultimately stated NO, granted he was probably advised of the situation but if the Homeland Security people advised they would not except the documentation presented the Captain's and HAL Reps hands were tied and they certainly could not state anything otherwise. I have dealt with people with similar situations as well as traveled with someone that lost their passport the morning of the cruise and at no time was the Captain or a Cruise Line Rep the one to give final clearance. The Captain only gives his OK if someone states they are ill or there are other reason that he makes the decision if they can board. When it comes to Immigration issues I truly believe they leave it to those Officials to issues the OK. I honestly think this is where there could be a problem. Because I do not believe it was HAL that told him no HAL will revert to their cruise contract where they do not take any responsibility for travel documentation. While I totally agree that HAL was at fault with what the Rep stated none of their Reps are Authorities and the wording of the cruise contract protects them.

[CruisenLexie]

We booked the cruise about a month prior, and being the overly optimistic soul that I am, declined the insurance. Oh, btw it is unnecessary to start beating me up about that now too. I get it. Passport! Insurance! My travel agent says the insurance would not have covered this particular incident anywho.

 

I wasn't sure about the insurance myself so that is why I asked. No beating up from my end :)

 

Good luck!

[ejammer]

Please come back and let us know how HAL deals with this.

I promise, one way, or the other, good or bad, all of you here, and as many other eyes and ears as I can find, anywhere and everywhere, for as many months or years as possible, will know the outcome of this! :)

[jtl513]

John, I am still not so sure it was the Captain who ultimately stated NO, granted he was probably advised of the situation but if the Homeland Security people advised they would not except the documentation presented the Captain's and HAL Reps hands were tied and they certainly could not state anything otherwise.

From his post #166:

Another moment of false encouragement and temporary anxiety reliever moment was when the custom's officer finally actually showed up, looked at my documentation, called his supervisor, and optimistically told us everything would be ok, and we were "going to enjoy our cruise". He just needed to get the final OK from the ship personnel.

 

Now that was almost a fun 30 minutes or so as I attempted to wipe my wife's tears, reassuring her, and discussing our dream adventure plans again. Boom. Captain wouldn't authorize it because he was "fearful of possible fines from custom's upon our return departure for letting us on board without proper documentation".

[Cruzin Terri]

John, I am still not so sure it was the Captain who ultimately stated NO, granted he was probably advised of the situation but if the Homeland Security people advised they would not except the documentation presented the Captain's and HAL Reps hands were tied and they certainly could not state anything otherwise. I have dealt with people with similar situations as well as traveled with someone that lost their passport the morning of the cruise and at no time was the Captain or a Cruise Line Rep the one to give final clearance. The Captain only gives his OK if someone states they are ill or there are other reason that he makes the decision if they can board. When it comes to Immigration issues I truly believe they leave it to those Officials to issues the OK. I honestly think this is where there could be a problem. Because I do not believe it was HAL that told him no HAL will revert to their cruise contract where they do not take any responsibility for travel documentation. While I totally agree that HAL was at fault with what the Rep stated none of their Reps are Authorities and the wording of the cruise contract protects them.

Lisa,

If he was told the Captain wouldn't approve his boarding, that is what he has to go by. Not the customs officers, or Homeland Security or anyone else. He was told that the Customs official said he would be all right and that all they needed was the ship approval. That was what he was told.

 

The Captain was clearly wrong in this case, if it was the Captain or any other ship personnel and HAL should make the OP whole by either refunding his money or giving him a free cruise.

 

Since he has contacted a travel ombudsman and has already heard back from him, we will see what the outcome will be.

Terri

[Cruzin Terri]

You must have been living in a bunker somewhere.It is inconceivable that anyone in the world would think they can travel outside their own country without a pasport.

Any travel agent would advise you as part of their responsibility and it is clearly recorded in HAl's advice to cruisers.

You must accept the blame for your own carelessness and not blame others.

 

You can tell the whole world about your experiene but you are not likely to generate much sympathy.

I think the OP has seen enough of this type of response already. Don't beat a dead horse.

Terri

[LAFFNVEGAS]

Yes, I agree that the Captain was advised but the Captain is going to go by what the Officials told him, he also is not an expert on the proper identification nor should he be. Could the Captain have over rode what Homeland Security Officers stated, yes but if they were advising him that they were not accepting or recommending accepting the documentation presented then there is no way the Captain would have approved. There could have been strict penalties to the Ship/Cruise line and possible problems with reentry into the US and with the other Caribbean Islands that were involved being Bahamas and Grand Turk. The Captain in this case was just agreeing with what the authorities were telling him and not wanting to place these passengers in jeopardy.

Edited February 17, 2013 by LAFFNVEGAS