Vantage fare scam

[jeanlyon]

Old musty-smelling cramped? I can see you've never tried one of the smaller ones. I have never found them like that at all. I have found them friendly, easy to get to know, good food, great staff. what more could I want.

 

And actually as an ex- stewardess of 16 years, I've been to most of the world and the idea of flying now just fills me with horror. So lovely to turn up in your car, check in and you're on board.

[tom_uk]

Old musty-smelling cramped? I can see you've never tried one of the smaller ones. I have never found them like that at all. I have found them friendly, easy to get to know, good food, great staff. what more could I want.

 

And actually as an ex- stewardess of 16 years, I've been to most of the world and the idea of flying now just fills me with horror. So lovely to turn up in your car, check in and you're on board.

 

I wish I liked the smaller ships as well! However, we had a cruise on Black Watch a year or so ago and to be honest we found it just too small with not enough variety or facilities. Just our opinion, of course; and I would have to say that the food and service were excellent. But we found, perhaps to our surprise, that we have got used to, and enjoy, the facilities and size of ships such as Ventura and Celebrity Solstice. But one of the great things about the cruise industry is that there is something for everyone; and there's no right or wrong, just what suits various individuals.

[terrierjohn]

Old musty-smelling cramped? I can see you've never tried one of the smaller ones. I have never found them like that at all. I have found them friendly, easy to get to know, good food, great staff. what more could I want.

 

And actually as an ex- stewardess of 16 years, I've been to most of the world and the idea of flying now just fills me with horror. So lovely to turn up in your car, check in and you're on board.

I think you know that I was only pulling your leg. ;)

We also have sailed on some small ones from 20,000 to 40,000 tonnes and thoroughly enjoyed them. But now that we need a HC cabin we do prefer the newer ships with lots of facilities and bigger HC cabins, and most of the new ships that sail from the UK are the bigger ones.

[tom_uk]

I see that there are now Getaway fares advertised for both P&O and Cunard for late July - 27th for P&O and 31st for Cunard. Those dates are still just about 5 months away.

 

I must say, this isn't what I thought the Getaway fares classification would be used for; I had envisaged that it would be for genuine last-minute offerings. But to advertise Getaway fares five months out! - that does make a mockery of the Vantage fares concept.

 

I've now done the research that perhaps I should have done earlier. It tursn out that for these cruises in July (e.g. N319) P&O are advertising two fares currently: a Vantage fare and a Getaway fare. The Vantage fare comes with benefits (i.e one of either some OBC, free parking or free coach journey), normal payment & cancellation provisions, and the price promise. The Getaway fare has none of the above; requires full payment immediately; and also does not refund any money in the event of cancellation, even it was five minutes after booking, five months in advance of the cruise.

 

The comparison is complicated by the fact that P&O are throwing in a fuel supplement which is wiping out the OBC if that's the Vantage fare benefit you ask for. If you ask for either of the other benefits then the supplement is within the quoted price. For 'higher fore/aft' balcony cabins the current prices are as follows: Vantage fare, £1699; Getaway fare, £1249. So a saving of £900 for a couple as long as a) they can pay the full amount immediately; b) they can risk losing it all in the event of any cancellation; and c) they're happy to live with absolutely no choice of cabin.

[daiB]

I've now done the research that perhaps I should have done earlier. It tursn out that for these cruises in July (e.g. N319) P&O are advertising two fares currently: a Vantage fare and a Getaway fare. The Vantage fare comes with benefits (i.e one of either some OBC, free parking or free coach journey), normal payment & cancellation provisions, and the price promise. The Getaway fare has none of the above; requires full payment immediately; and also does not refund any money in the event of cancellation, even it was five minutes after booking, five months in advance of the cruise.

 

The comparison is complicated by the fact that P&O are throwing in a fuel supplement which is wiping out the OBC if that's the Vantage fare benefit you ask for. If you ask for either of the other benefits then the supplement is within the quoted price. For 'higher fore/aft' balcony cabins the current prices are as follows: Vantage fare, £1699; Getaway fare, £1249. So a saving of £900 for a couple as long as a) they can pay the full amount immediately; b) they can risk losing it all in the event of any cancellation; and c) they're happy to live with absolutely no choice of cabin.

 

 

Yes Tom not exactly like for like. Puts it into context.

 

 

Gan canny

 

 

Dai

[simonpjd]

I suspect this same thread will now be appearing on the FredOlsen board. They have just announced Anchor Fares - which look identical to the P&O Getaway fare. Oh dear I can imagine some of the postings from Fred's clients (average age 87 but quite a feisty crowd!!).

[casbar3]

"The comparison is complicated by the fact that P&O are throwing in a fuel supplement which is wiping out the OBC if that's the Vantage fare benefit you ask for. If you ask for either of the other benefits then the supplement is within the quoted price."

 

 

 

I'm sorry if I haven't done this procedure correctly as I'm still learning what's what.:confused:

 

We booked Vantage fare for our cruise at a local TA and at no time were we informed of the above information. If we had have been, we would definitely have chosen one of the other options as I now feel we have been conned into paying the £140 fuel supplement after choosing the OBC. To me this is so blantantly wrong. If we had chosen the bus option, we would be £140 better off. Were other cruisers aware of this and should our TA have been aware?

 

 

(I have just previewed this message and I haven't done it right. Sorry)

[daiB]

"The comparison is complicated by the fact that P&O are throwing in a fuel supplement which is wiping out the OBC if that's the Vantage fare benefit you ask for. If you ask for either of the other benefits then the supplement is within the quoted price."

 

 

 

I'm sorry if I haven't done this procedure correctly as I'm still learning what's what.:confused:

 

We booked Vantage fare for our cruise at a local TA and at no time were we informed of the above information. If we had have been, we would definitely have chosen one of the other options as I now feel we have been conned into paying the £140 fuel supplement after choosing the OBC. To me this is so blantantly wrong. If we had chosen the bus option, we would be £140 better off. Were other cruisers aware of this and should our TA have been aware?

 

 

(I have just previewed this message and I haven't done it right. Sorry)

 

I would have thought that if there is a surcharge everyone would pay. So if you had the bus option you would then pay more.

 

 

Gan canny

 

Dai

[davecttr]

Just done test bookings on that July cruise

 

The Vantage fare is the same whether you choose obc, parking or bus travel. Fuel supplement is included as well

 

The Getaway fare also includes the fuel supplement

 

The getaway fare is £80 cheaper than the net vantage with obc

 

In essence P&O are charging you £80 to reserve a cabin and give you a month before you pay the balance

[daiB]

Just done test bookings on that July cruise

 

The Vantage fare is the same whether you choose obc, parking or bus travel. Fuel supplement is included as well

 

The Getaway fare also includes the fuel supplement

 

The getaway fare is £80 cheaper than the net vantage with obc

 

In essence P&O are charging you £80 to reserve a cabin and give you a month before you pay the balance

 

So hardly a scam as the title of the thread alleges. Remembering these will be the cabins no one else has booked and are therefore not going to be best placed. Unless you are lucky and get one someone has cancelled. But that would be after the 90 day mark.

 

 

 

Gan Canny

 

 

Dai

 

:cool:

[tom_uk]

Just done test bookings on that July cruise

 

The Vantage fare is the same whether you choose obc, parking or bus travel. Fuel supplement is included as well

 

The Getaway fare also includes the fuel supplement

 

The getaway fare is £80 cheaper than the net vantage with obc

 

In essence P&O are charging you £80 to reserve a cabin and give you a month before you pay the balance

 

Dave, I've just done the same and you're right - as of now, the supplement is not appearing as an extra on top of the advertised Vantage fare when OBC has been selected. However, although I don't have any proof (e.g. screen shots), I promise you that at 8 o'clock this morning that wasn't the case - it was 1699 + 60 = 1759, with 60 OBC.

 

I did email P&O at about 9 o'clock asking for their comments on this very point. I haven't yet received a reply; but it's interesting that the specific screen I pointed to has been amended. If i get a reply I'll post the gist here.

[terrierjohn]

So hardly a scam as the title of the thread alleges. Remembering these will be the cabins no one else has booked and are therefore not going to be best placed. Unless you are lucky and get one someone has cancelled. But that would be after the 90 day mark.

 

 

 

Gan Canny

 

 

Dai

 

:cool:

Dai, the scam is not whether the getaway fare is cheaper than the Vantage fare, but that getaway fares are being published months before final balance is due and therefore Vantage fare price matching is never being given to early bookers. It was just a con trick by P&O (Carnival).

[daiB]

Dai, the scam is not whether the getaway fare is cheaper than the Vantage fare, but that getaway fares are being published months before final balance is due and therefore Vantage fare price matching is never being given to early bookers. It was just a con trick by P&O (Carnival).

 

You may think so but I do not.

 

The fare system is far clearer than it has ever been you now know how much you are paying and closer to the cruise you have a choice to make.

 

This is what many people have been asking for for years.

 

 

Now we have to see if there is a special deal for booking very early ie. this April for 2014/15. If there is no special deal then bookings at that time will be down.

 

 

 

Gan Canny

 

 

Dai

:cool:

[Oarsman55]

So hardly a scam as the title of the thread alleges. Remembering these will be the cabins no one else has booked and are therefore not going to be best placed. Unless you are lucky and get one someone has cancelled. But that would be after the 90 day mark.

Gan Canny

Dai

 

If not a scam, then it was disingenuous. We're playing with words here.

 

Those of us with a few years under our belts knew that the Vantage fares would never be reduced and that new reduced fares would appear under a different guise, probably Getaway. Those with no experience will have been seduced by the large-print advertising, implying that you could book early, secure in the knowledge that, if the fare reduced, it would be price matched in some shape or form. The small print was exactly that, very small and often tucked away from the main headline. In addition, a very well-known P&O/Cunard travel agent told me that there would be no Getaways this year. When I questioned it, the operator said this is what Cunard had told them and I have no doubt that P&O were singing from the same hymnsheet.

 

I've booked three guarantee cabins in my time and never had a bad one. In fact, I've had two upgrades to suites. The trick is never to book anything less than you would be happy with. This does not apply, of course, to those like yourself who require disabled facilities, or to those booking family cabins; nor does it apply to those who need certain dates in high season, or those who are looking at an unusual itinerary, who may well be better advised to book early. However, your advice to book early always seems to omit the highly relevant fact that your circumstances are not the same as most. For Mr/s bog average, who is flexible on dates, ship and destination, it is pretty daft these days to book long in advance.

 

Peter

[daiB]

If not a scam, then it was disingenuous. We're playing with words here.

 

Those of us with a few years under our belts knew that the Vantage fares would never be reduced and that new reduced fares would appear under a different guise, probably Getaway. Those with no experience will have been seduced by the large-print advertising, implying that you could book early, secure in the knowledge that, if the fare reduced, it would be price matched in some shape or form. The small print was exactly that, very small and often tucked away from the main headline. In addition, a very well-known P&O/Cunard travel agent told me that there would be no Getaways this year. When I questioned it, the operator said this is what Cunard had told them and I have no doubt that P&O were singing from the same hymnsheet.

 

I've booked three guarantee cabins in my time and never had a bad one. In fact, I've had two upgrades to suites. The trick is never to book anything less than you would be happy with. This does not apply, of course, to those like yourself who require disabled facilities, or to those booking family cabins; nor does it apply to those who need certain dates in high season, or those who are looking at an unusual itinerary, who may well be better advised to book early. However, your advice to book early always seems to omit the highly relevant fact that your circumstances are not the same as most. For Mr/s bog average, who is flexible on dates, ship and destination, it is pretty daft these days to book long in advance.

 

Peter

 

 

My advice Peter was to book early or late and never in the middle as that was when the prices would be highest. Now, well it all depends on what happens in April. This advice must change with vantage fares as things are now different.

 

I have always indicated that not all cruises have reduced fares near the end of the booking time or that there may be only a few of them available. I find that talking to people on cruises very few have the knowledge to make a booking at the most opportune moment and book at any time.

 

Personally I book on day one now because I need to and before because I got good deals.

 

All P&O's advertising now makes it quite clear what the position is. I grant this may not have been the case when vantage fares were first introduced.

 

 

 

 

Gan Canny

 

 

Dai

 

:cool:

[tom_uk]

The fact that both a Vantage fare and a Getaway fare would be available for the same cruise at the same time is unexpected, at least to me. I had anticipated that Getaway fares would replace Vantage fares for a cruise not run alongside them, and the issue was simply how far in advance of the cruise date this would happen. The closer to the date, the better; the further out, the worse. As I say, I didn't expect a choice to be made available.

 

P&O's original blurb about this defined Getaway Fares as 'Last minute offers'. I'll stick to my original view and say that five months before cruise date isn't 'last minute'.

[daiB]

The fact that both a Vantage fare and a Getaway fare would be available for the same cruise at the same time is unexpected, at least to me. I had anticipated that Getaway fares would replace Vantage fares for a cruise not run alongside them, and the issue was simply how far in advance of the cruise date this would happen. The closer to the date, the better; the further out, the worse. As I say, I didn't expect a choice to be made available.

 

P&O's original blurb about this defined Getaway Fares as 'Last minute offers'. I'll stick to my original view and say that five months before cruise date isn't 'last minute'.

 

But as you said it is your choice. You can decide, further out would you want to pay the full amount?

 

To me it looks like clarity and choice.

 

Something not available before.

 

 

 

Gan Canny

 

 

Dai

 

:cool:

[Oarsman55]

All P&O's advertising now makes it quite clear what the position is. I grant this may not have been the case when vantage fares were first introduced.

Dai

 

:cool:

 

Sorry, Dai, but I don't think they are making anything clear. I've copied this off P&O's website and it's exactly what they say when you click on "Vantage Fares" on their home page:

 

Great value fares that are Price Promise protected. Choice of benefits to enhance your holiday*. If the Vantage Fare for your cruise reduces after you've booked, we'll give you on board spending money or an upgrade to the value of the reduction.

 

That's it - there is nothing obvious outlining the important terms and conditions, especailly the small detail of them dropping the price and calling it something other than Vantage, months before the cruise.

 

Anyone not experienced in the wily ways of cruise lines would assume that "price promise protected" means exactly that, but we all know that it doesn't. Pity the poor blighters that don't, and the travel agents who must be constantly fielding their legitimate complaints.

 

Peter

[daiB]

Sorry, Dai, but I don't think they are making anything clear. I've copied this off P&O's website and it's exactly what they say when you click on "Vantage Fares" on their home page:

 

Great value fares that are Price Promise protected. Choice of benefits to enhance your holiday*. If the Vantage Fare for your cruise reduces after you've booked, we'll give you on board spending money or an upgrade to the value of the reduction.

 

That's it - there is nothing obvious outlining the important terms and conditions, especailly the small detail of them dropping the price and calling it something other than Vantage, months before the cruise.

 

Anyone not experienced in the wily ways of cruise lines would assume that "price promise protected" means exactly that, but we all know that it doesn't. Pity the poor blighters that don't, and the travel agents who must be constantly fielding their legitimate complaints.

 

Peter

 

Sorry to disagree again but the front page of the website clearly shows Vantage fares and getaway fares, with the advantages of both.

 

 

 

Dai

 

 

 

:cool:

[davecttr]

Now we know that the Vantage fares will not be reduced and were never intended to be why are they introducing Getaway fares 5 months before the cruise date?

 

It is obvious, ticket sales have not been up to expectation and they hope to kick start them.

 

What happens if this does not work?, obvously reduce the getaway fare as i don't think they ever said those could not be reduced.

 

So beware, you might go for a getaway fare now only to find it is cheaper nearer the cruise. You can't complain though because it is not a Vantage fare and there is no price promise.

 

Maybe the Vantage fare scheme was a one off for this year and now a lot of cruisers have 'sussed' it P&O will have to try something else next year.

[Oarsman55]

What happens if this does not work?, obvously reduce the getaway fare as i don't think they ever said those could not be reduced.

 

So beware, you might go for a getaway fare now only to find it is cheaper nearer the cruise. You can't complain though because it is not a Vantage fare and there is no price promise.

 

This has happened on the Cunard cruise in mid-May that I've been price-monitoring. It had a small net price drop when it became a Getaway in early February, then had another reasonably hefty price drop in mid February. Looking at the bookings to date, another price drop looks likely.

 

Just out of interest, has anyone who booked after the Vantage Fares were introduced had a price match in any shape or form?

 

Peter

[Oarsman55]

Sorry to disagree again but the front page of the website clearly shows Vantage fares and getaway fares, with the advantages of both.

Dai

 

Only now that they've got both offers running in tandem, and only for those with access to their website. That knocks out about 40% of the UK population.

 

I don't know what P&O is actually telling people on the telephone, but do know that travel agents are being extremely economical with the truth by spinning the old line about Vantage price-matching on cruises that are already on Getaway.

 

Peter

[gadabout60]

I've been tracking a couple of cruises and in one getaway prices were introduced about a week ago.

 

Looking at the detail of some cabin grades it shows vantage fares as still available but getaway fares sold out. Do they only make a certain number of getaway fares available ? If the remaining cabins don't sell is it likely that they will make more getaway fares available ?

[daiB]

Only now that they've got both offers running in tandem, and only for those with access to their website. That knocks out about 40% of the UK population.

 

I don't know what P&O is actually telling people on the telephone, but do know that travel agents are being extremely economical with the truth by spinning the old line about Vantage price-matching on cruises that are already on Getaway.

 

Peter

 

No that is wrong the offers are mentioned by every TA on the web. So are you saying that high street TA's are not giving out the correct information? The information is out there and the majority of people have access to it.

 

Remember that this is a new scheme which in reality has just kicked in.

 

They certainly have not been economical with the truth at all.

 

I repeat this is the most transparent that cruise prices have ever been.

 

 

 

Gan Canny

 

Dai

 

:cool:

[terrierjohn]

My advice Peter was to book early or late and never in the middle as that was when the prices would be highest. Now, well it all depends on what happens in April. This advice must change with vantage fares as things are now different. Not sure why you think it's now different with Vantage fares, all that seems to have happened is that fluid pricing now relates to getaway deals

 

I have always indicated that not all cruises have reduced fares near the end of the booking time or that there may be only a few of them available. I find that talking to people on cruises very few have the knowledge to make a booking at the most opportune moment and book at any time.

That's correct if you want a certain grade, but most cruises have some grades at last minute getaway deals.

 

Personally I book on day one now because I need to and before because I got good deals. So do we because we need a HC cabin, but if we could live with any balcony we would certainly opt for late deals.

 

All P&O's advertising now makes it quite clear what the position is. I grant this may not have been the case when vantage fares were first introduced.

Not true they still insist that they will price match any Vantage fare reduction, when they know full well that's never going to happen.

Gan Canny

Dai:cool:

Dai, Before you whip of another denial, please read carefully all the posts with opinions different to yours and try to understand the points we are making. John.