Vantage fare scam

[daiB]

Dai, Before you whip of another denial, please read carefully all the posts with opinions different to yours and try to understand the points we are making. John.

 

Well John we are never going to agree on this at all. I see the present payment structure to be far better than what we had. Remember that never was it sId that the vantage fares would go down only that if they needed to go down everyone would get that price.

 

The getaway prices are very restricted, pay in full, no refund if you want to back out and no choice. So not attractive apart from the price. As we stand I have not seen or heard of the massive reductions which were causing so much grief over the past 2 years so the drop from vantage to getaway seems marginal. Obviously cheaper but not excessively so. Interestingly with the fall in the £ I can see cruising becoming even more popular as the price will not rise with the currency fall which will be the case for land based holidays in Europe and USA.

 

There is no way that this a scam and I really object to that terminology.

 

 

 

Gan Canny

 

 

Dai

 

:cool:

[tom_uk]

On the cruise I examined, the Vantage Fare for a balcony is £1699 and the Getaway Fare is £1249. That's a saving of £450, which is just over 25% of the Vantage Fare. That's a significant reduction.

[davecttr]

Well John we are never going to agree on this at all. I see the present payment structure to be far better than what we had. Remember that never was it sId that the vantage fares would go down only that if they needed to go down everyone would get that price.

 

The getaway prices are very restricted, pay in full, no refund if you want to back out and no choice. So not attractive apart from the price. As we stand I have not seen or heard of the massive reductions which were causing so much grief over the past 2 years so the drop from vantage to getaway seems marginal. Obviously cheaper but not excessively so. Interestingly with the fall in the £ I can see cruising becoming even more popular as the price will not rise with the currency fall which will be the case for land based holidays in Europe and USA.

 

There is no way that this a scam and I really object to that terminology.

 

 

 

Gan Canny

 

 

Dai

 

:cool:

I started this topic and it is a scam. Look at the initial posts and you will find that I had found a Vantage fare that was apparently lower because the obc was higher than when i booked, hence the 'net' price had dropped.

It was pointed out that the obc was not part of the Vantage deal, OK i can live with that but it still gave P&O wriggle room to reduce the 'fare' without breaking the price promise, therefore IMO it IS a scam.

 

Now we have both Vantage and Getaway fares available at the same time!.The apparent difference being with a Vantage you get to reserve your cabin.

 

Thats a good 'that airline' idea. Adopt the Thomson cruise scam of charging to book a cabin. Thomson charge £42, £80 would be better for P&O because it thinks it is posh :D

[daiB]

I started this topic and it is a scam. Look at the initial posts and you will find that I had found a Vantage fare that was apparently lower because the obc was higher than when i booked, hence the 'net' price had dropped.

It was pointed out that the obc was not part of the Vantage deal, OK i can live with that but it still gave P&O wriggle room to reduce the 'fare' without breaking the price promise, therefore IMO it IS a scam.

 

Now we have both Vantage and Getaway fares available at the same time!.The apparent difference being with a Vantage you get to reserve your cabin.

 

Thats a good 'that airline' idea. Adopt the Thomson cruise scam of charging to book a cabin. Thomson charge £42, £80 would be better for P&O because it thinks it is posh :D

 

 

So lets get this right you think P&O have scammed you because they have done what they said they would do. The Vantage fare has not moved only if you book now you get a little more OBC, about £70. OBC is of course not part of the fare. Well you think you have been scammed, I do not.

 

Well there we are.

 

The thread had moved on from that point and most of my imput was regarding the vantage/getaway scheme as a whole. Which I think is far more transparent than what was there before.

 

Tom,

 

You have found a 25% drop in one fare for one cruise. The questions I would ask would be, how many cabins are at this price and how soon is the cruise. The company must have a way of selling the last few cabins and the getaway fare is it. Did anyone actually expect that P&O would reduce all their fares by 25% to match this or any other large discount they give to shift the last few cabins. If they did that then there would be no company very soon.

 

BTW John on your last bit, you miss out:-

 

Pay the full amount up front.

 

No choice of dining time or type.

 

No OBC etc.

 

No refund if you wish to cancel

 

To go with no choice of cabin, which of course will be the cabins no one else wants to book. Unless of course you are very lucky and get a cabin which someone has had to cancel at short notice.

 

Having said that I am fully in the camp of those who say once you have booked at a price you are happy with then forget it and enjoy the cruise.

 

 

 

Gan Canny

 

 

Dai

 

:cool:

[tom_uk]

Dai said:

 

Tom,

 

You have found a 25% drop in one fare for one cruise. The questions I would ask would be, how many cabins are at this price and how soon is the cruise. The company must have a way of selling the last few cabins and the getaway fare is it. Did anyone actually expect that P&O would reduce all their fares by 25% to match this or any other large discount they give to shift the last few cabins. If they did that then there would be no company very soon.

 

I don't know how many cabins. However, I do know that this price appeared FIVE MONTHS before cruise date. The cruise is N319, on Ventura and sailing on 27 July, and I noticed this fare last week, i.e. 27th and 28th February. No way is this Getaway Fare for this cruise a 'last minute offer', but that's what P&O told us Getaway Fares would be.

 

And there are lots of cruises in July with Getaway Fares at the same sort of saving, it's certainly not just this cruise.

[terrierjohn]

 

BTW John on your last bit, you miss out:-

 

Pay the full amount up front. P&O now demand payment 3 months before cruise and most people booking getaway deals would be inside this, so no loss here.

 

No choice of dining time or type. Everyone knows if you see the Maitre D' he can swap your dining arrangement

 

No OBC etc. If you take this into account when assessing the getaway fare then that's OK

 

No refund if you wish to cancel There is very little refund anyway if you are inside the 90 day period

 

To go with no choice of cabin, which of course will be the cabins no one else wants to book. Unless of course you are very lucky and get a cabin which someone has had to cancel at short notice.

 

Having said that I am fully in the camp of those who say once you have booked at a price you are happy with then forget it and enjoy the cruise.

Gan Canny

Dai

:cool:

Dai, The definition of scam is as follows :- deprive somebody of something by deceit; ie "we were cheated by their clever-sounding scheme".

The other posters on this thread think that P&O put together a clever sounding scheme by suggesting that Vantage fares would price match any future reduction, when they new full well they had no intention of ever reducing the new Vantage fares.

So please stop trying to defend the indefensible. John.

[daiB]

Dai said:

 

 

 

I don't know how many cabins. However, I do know that this price appeared FIVE MONTHS before cruise date. The cruise is N319, on Ventura and sailing on 27 July, and I noticed this fare last week, i.e. 27th and 28th February. No way is this Getaway Fare for this cruise a 'last minute offer', but that's what P&O told us Getaway Fares would be.

 

And there are lots of cruises in July with Getaway Fares at the same sort of saving, it's certainly not just this cruise.

 

What you quote is the DC grade of Superior Deluxe balcony. On checking there are only 9 cabins left on the getaway fare. There are none of the DA cabins ie the ones near the centre. For Balcony cabins there are only the GE cabins showing as getaway. There are only 2 of this type of cabin on the ship

 

So of all the balcony cabins there are only 9 available on getaway and these are at the back and front of the ship. I would consider that this is the last few as there are 1500 cabins on board and the majority with balcony.

 

 

 

Gan Canny

 

 

Dai

[daiB]

Dai, The definition of scam is as follows :- deprive somebody of something by deceit; ie "we were cheated by their clever-sounding scheme".

The other posters on this thread think that P&O put together a clever sounding scheme by suggesting that Vantage fares would price match any future reduction, when they new full well they had no intention of ever reducing the new Vantage fares.

So please stop trying to defend the indefensible. John.

 

 

Did they say they would reduce Vantage fares? NO.

 

When you quote other persons this we are talking their opinion not fact. And please stop telling me what I can and cannot do.

 

BTW if you read the T & C's you will see you can still get 40% back up to 42 days which is of course better than nothing as you would with a getaway

 

 

Gan Canny

 

 

Dai

[Norfolk Brit]

What you quote is the DC grade of Superior Deluxe balcony. On checking there are only 9 cabins left on the getaway fare. There are none of the DA cabins ie the ones near the centre. For Balcony cabins there are only the GE cabins showing as getaway. There are only 2 of this type of cabin on the ship

 

So of all the balcony cabins there are only 9 available on getaway and these are at the back and front of the ship. I would consider that this is the last few as there are 1500 cabins on board and the majority with balcony.

Dai

 

Dai, I think it's fair to assume you've never booked a Getaway guarantee cabin. I have.

 

How they work at the moment is that certain grades of cabin are offered as Getaways, often grades that have only a few cabins. You book one of these and are (in my experience) subsequently upgraded to a higher grade, leaving the same number of cabins available in the Getaway offer. It is not as simple as believing that there are only a few of these cabins left because there are few in that particular category. Having said that, at some point someone will get exactly the cabin grade they booked and paid for, but that has never happened to me. I suspect these are the ultra-late guarantee bookings, but have no evidence to support that.

 

The only way of checking if cabin categories are completely booked is to check availability after clicking on "Vantage Fares" - this gives a clearer picture. Clicking on "Getaways" always shows the categories of cabin that are not included in the Getaway offer as being sold out.

 

Apologies if this is not clear, but it's not particularly easy to describe simply.

 

Mary

[simonpjd]

DING DING seconds out round two.

We are booked on Oriana sailing mid July and I was surprised to see a Getaway fare announced last week. Fortunately we are v happy as there are no equivalent cabins available at all. Would we have been cheesed off to see a reduction.

Well lets remember - we have a slug of OBC which we would not have got.

I picked the exact cabin we wanted.

We picked sitting option for dinner.

And we don't have to pay for another 2 months.

So I think it would have had to have been a substantial discount before we would be counting ourselves as a bit cheesed off. We were happy with the fare agreed a year ago - still happy with it now.

 

Anyway that is enough lads or I will have to knock your heads together. You both make valid points but enough now say I. Just remember rule 1 - Don't talk about how much you paid because someone on board will have paid less (and some more).

[terrierjohn]

Did they say they would reduce Vantage fares? NO.

What was the point of P&O offering to price match future reductions then?

When you quote other persons this we are talking their opinion not fact. And please stop telling me what I can and cannot do. Were you not the person who said There is no way that this a scam and I really object to that terminology. and is that or is that not only your opinion and not proven fact?

 

Gan Canny

Dai

Dai, I really do despair that you are so unwilling to admit that P&O were at least duplicitous when they launched the Vantage fares as a way of giving their customers a guarantee that their price would reduce to match any future price reduction.

[daiB]

Dai, I think it's fair to assume you've never booked a Getaway guarantee cabin. I have.

 

How they work at the moment is that certain grades of cabin are offered as Getaways, often grades that have only a few cabins. You book one of these and are (in my experience) subsequently upgraded to a higher grade, leaving the same number of cabins available in the Getaway offer. It is not as simple as believing that there are only a few of these cabins left because there are few in that particular category. Having said that, at some point someone will get exactly the cabin grade they booked and paid for, but that has never happened to me. I suspect these are the ultra-late guarantee bookings, but have no evidence to support that.

 

The only way of checking if cabin categories are completely booked is to check availability after clicking on "Vantage Fares" - this gives a clearer picture. Clicking on "Getaways" always shows the categories of cabin that are not included in the Getaway offer as being sold out.

 

Apologies if this is not clear, but it's not particularly easy to describe simply.

 

Mary

 

Hi Mary

 

The figure of 9 came from the Vantage fares as when you look at the getaway it just says guarantee. You are of course correct that you sometimes get an upgrade. The ship for that cruise does look to be very full.

 

What I cannot understand is those who thought that there would only be Vantage fares and that getaway would not kick in.

 

 

Gan Canny

 

 

Dai

[daiB]

Dai, I really do despair that you are so unwilling to admit that P&O were at least duplicitous when they launched the Vantage fares as a way of giving their customers a guarantee that their price would reduce to match any future price reduction.

 

Sorry if it upsets you but I had no doubts that the vantage fare would not come down unless in very odd circumstances. The getaway fares are not the vantage ones as I have said they come without frills.

 

No company are going to reduce the fares on the last 10% of cabins and then give the reduction to everyone else.

 

BTW this brings us into line with the USA when their fares go down they can claim the difference up to 90 days.

 

It can only be a scam if you did not think it was going to happen.

 

 

 

Gan Canny

 

 

Dai

[davecttr]

P&O could of course reduce ONE vantage fare to prove to everyone that the price promise was true. However. they would then have to give that reduction to everyone who had already booked.

 

Ah! says the corporate bean counter, we will only reduce it by £10 so it won't cost much if anything as we will just increase all the other fares by a tiny fraction to compensate.

 

The result of this? P&O will be subject to justly deserved derision and anger at their attempt to get out of being criticised by the advertising standards agency or whatever.

 

I wonder if they are wishing they had never come up with the spiffing wheeze :rolleyes:

 

summer '14 prices will be out soon. i wonder what level they will be ;)

[Norfolk Brit]

Hi Mary

What I cannot understand is those who thought that there would only be Vantage fares and that getaway would not kick in.

Dai

 

Well I can. Seem to recall that someone else on one of these threads was told by a major travel agent that P&O had told them there would be no Getaways this year.

 

I can (almost) substantiate this: I was told exactly the same thing by two well-known travel agents when enquiring about 2013 Cunard cruises. Didn't believe it, but that's only because I never believed in the Vantage Fairy in the first place.:D

 

The other point being made is that these new Getaway fares have kicked in months before they did in the past; the only conclusion any normal person can draw is that they do not wish to honour price-matching Vantage fares, as heavily promoted when they were introduced - this was, after all, their main selling point. To be honest, I don't blame them, as it would be business suicide. However, to anyone unaccustomed to holiday industry blarney, the whole thing has been less than transparent.

 

Mary

[BORDER REIVER]

Not P&O, but still the same idea. We booked our forthcoming Cunard cruise a year in advance, before Advantage fares existed I believe. We wanted adjacent balcony staterooms for us and my wife's sister, so had little to choose from and were happy enough with the price we agreed.

A month and a half later, we received a letter from Cunard telling us that we had been awarded a further $580 each (£384) OBC on top of the $150 we already had.

This was totally unexpected and naturally we were and still are, delighted.

It's the nature of the game that prices will fluctuate and booking is a gamble, but if your needs are specific, then early booking is the only way. If only my wife and I were travelling, we might have waited for Getaway fares (if they had existed then) and taken a gamble that we would be able to get the stateroom we wanted.

All in all, a good experience for us though.

[daiB]

DING DING seconds out round two.

We are booked on Oriana sailing mid July and I was surprised to see a Getaway fare announced last week. Fortunately we are v happy as there are no equivalent cabins available at all. Would we have been cheesed off to see a reduction.

Well lets remember - we have a slug of OBC which we would not have got.

I picked the exact cabin we wanted.

We picked sitting option for dinner.

And we don't have to pay for another 2 months.

So I think it would have had to have been a substantial discount before we would be counting ourselves as a bit cheesed off. We were happy with the fare agreed a year ago - still happy with it now.

 

Anyway that is enough lads or I will have to knock your heads together. You both make valid points but enough now say I. Just remember rule 1 - Don't talk about how much you paid because someone on board will have paid less (and some more).

 

Round 2 Simon we must be up to 5 at least.

 

You are spot on as well:D

 

 

Gan Canny

 

 

Dai

 

:cool:

[daiB]

Well I can. Seem to recall that someone else on one of these threads was told by a major travel agent that P&O had told them there would be no Getaways this year.

 

I can (almost) substantiate this: I was told exactly the same thing by two well-known travel agents when enquiring about 2013 Cunard cruises. Didn't believe it, but that's only because I never believed in the Vantage Fairy in the first place.:D

 

The other point being made is that these new Getaway fares have kicked in months before they did in the past; the only conclusion any normal person can draw is that they do not wish to honour price-matching Vantage fares, as heavily promoted when they were introduced - this was, after all, their main selling point. To be honest, I don't blame them, as it would be business suicide. However, to anyone unaccustomed to holiday industry blarney, the whole thing has been less than transparent.

 

Mary

 

 

I would never believe what a TA said, P&O said

 

To repeat the fares as they are now are more transparent that they ever were with fluid pricing. You pay a fare with the extras or a lesser one without and take a chance. simples.

 

 

Gan Canny

 

 

Dai

 

:cool:

[tom_uk]

What you quote is the DC grade of Superior Deluxe balcony.....

 

Simply not the case. Please see the two images below. Both are for cruise n319, on Ventura, 27 July. The top one is after having chosen the Vantage Fare route through the booking process; you'll see the bottom entry is for a GE Balcony Cabin (not a Superior Deluxe Balcony), Higher Deck, Forward/Aft. It's priced at £1699. The lower picture is for the same cruise but having chosen the Getaway Fare route. it too is for a GE Balcony cabin, Higher deck, Forward/Aft. Prince? - £1249. That's a Getaway fare £450 lower, five months before cruise date.

 

I understand P&O's commercial reasons for doing this - they need to fill the ships and they're doing that by lowering prices - but they clearly defined Getaway Fares as 'Last Minute offers'. A big reduction five months before sailing is NOT a 'last minute' offer. In my opinion they are not using Getaway Fares as they said they would.

 

 

[daiB]

Simply not the case. Please see the two images below. Both are for cruise n319, on Ventura, 27 July. The top one is after having chosen the Vantage Fare route through the booking process; you'll see the bottom entry is for a GE Balcony Cabin (not a Superior Deluxe Balcony), Higher Deck, Forward/Aft. It's priced at £1699. The lower picture is for the same cruise but having chosen the Getaway Fare route. it too is for a GE Balcony cabin, Higher deck, Forward/Aft. Prince? - £1249. That's a Getaway fare £450 lower, five months before cruise date.

 

I understand P&O's commercial reasons for doing this - they need to fill the ships and they're doing that by lowering prices - but they clearly defined Getaway Fares as 'Last Minute offers'. A big reduction five months before sailing is NOT a 'last minute' offer. In my opinion they are not using Getaway Fares as they said they would.

 

<a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/lqHNEtMonkXtMb5Ym8watFOKH_LwcP_JGMUOJoH51fo?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-HcGj1V18rHc/UTZ5ix-Ma9I/AAAAAAAABwg/5DXyVzkFmug/s800/Vantage.jpg" height="567" width="717" /></a>

 

<a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/_LyPO1ekZqSZ6FfUOQ1pJVOKH_LwcP_JGMUOJoH51fo?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-jxMTaD2P_-o/UTZ5i-uqD6I/AAAAAAAABwk/39XHwT_xPS0/s800/Getaway.jpg" height="564" width="753" /></a>

 

 

Sorry Tom not good examples as there are only 2 of these cabins on the ship, at the back squeezed in with some suites on a low deck. Clearly they cannot shift them.

 

And I have just noticed looking at the ships plan, directly above Havana...no wonder they cannot shift them. £1249 looks to be too much!

 

 

 

Gan Canny

 

Dai

[GHDPeter]

The big difference that I have not seen mentioned here is that the terms are different for the 2 types of fares.

 

Vantage fares give you flexibility and choice in the booking, allowing you to choose your cabin etc and giving you better payment, changes, and cancellation options.

 

Getaway fares are more like a sale guarantee booking, you get a cheaper price but you have to pay in full, have no choice of cabin, and 100% cancellation fee.

[the english lady]

I have been following these discussions. I think P and O should not have labled them "getaway" fares. Which as some have suggested ,really suggests prices for cabins just prior to sailing. I think a better term would be "leave everything up to us " fares.

This way you either pay the full price, just pay a deposit, balance 90 days before, choice of cabin and dining etc. etc. If you need to cancel you either just lose the deposit (which I know can run into 100's) ,or roll the booking over for a year.

With the "leave everything to us fares", which could come any anytime after bookings are opened, you have no choice of cabin (except the grade) no choice of dining options, etc etc.100 % payment on booking and no refund.

Surely with that name and those booking options it would be entirely up to you as to whether you went for security or price.

If the ship still isn't full close to sail then a true "getaway" fare would come in.

Would that be a clear option?

I would suggest that the vantage fare would never come down ,as the only reduction in price would be if you made no choices yourself..

[EssexcruiserS]

Sorry, Dai, but I don't think they are making anything clear. I've copied this off P&O's website and it's exactly what they say when you click on "Vantage Fares" on their home page:

 

Great value fares that are Price Promise protected. Choice of benefits to enhance your holiday*. If the Vantage Fare for your cruise reduces after you've booked, we'll give you on board spending money or an upgrade to the value of the reduction.

 

That's it - there is nothing obvious outlining the important terms and conditions, especailly the small detail of them dropping the price and calling it something other than Vantage, months before the cruise.

 

Anyone not experienced in the wily ways of cruise lines would assume that "price promise protected" means exactly that, but we all know that it doesn't. Pity the poor blighters that don't, and the travel agents who must be constantly fielding their legitimate complaints.

 

Peter

 

 

Thats is exactly the point Peter, we booked our cruise with the promise that we were safe booking early, if the price dropped we would be getting something back.

 

Lets face the fact, the price has dropped, I got nothing back. It has taught me a valuable lesson, wait until the last minute and pay 1/2 the price. I suspect that there will be occasions (when there are next to no cabins left ) that the vanatage fare will drop by a tiny amount so P&O can try and tell us it is not a scam....... We are not that stupid however and as someone who has booked 20+ cruises over the last 12 years this has been the final nail in the coffin for my early booking days.

 

It is a scam, it is worded to deceive, to give the impression of promising something that will never be delivered. Dont take us for such fools P&O, I for one am offended!

[Blodwyn]

When the Vantage fares were introduced P&O made clear that they would still be offering Getaway fares.

 

Not all Getaway fares are cheaper if you take OBC into account.

 

My sister and I wanted a no fly cruise late January 2014.We booked a Vantage fare on ,direct with P&O, and were very surprised and happy at the OBC !:)

[jeanlyon]

The Princess 2014 cruises are out on the B*******website. If those prices are anything to go by, then everyone will be waiting until they come down. Up to now, you could always pay less than £100 per night for an inside cabin. These prices are all over £100 per night for an inside. I expect P&O will be the same.