Was the cause of the Grandeur fire revealed?

[TEXASMUNK]

US Coast Guard...So am I still "guilty" in your eyes? Or is the answer just not what you wanted it to be????????

[chengkp75]

US Coast Guard...So am I still "guilty" in your eyes? Or is the answer just not what you wanted it to be????????

 

Are you a USCG insider, or could you provide some indication as to where the CG stated this? I've seen on these boards where there was merely a comment that "preliminary indications are that an electrical short" caused the fire, and I tend to believe this more than the cigarette theory, but haven't seen anything definitive.

[TEXASMUNK]

it was a prelim report from the USCG

[chengkp75]

it was a prelim report from the USCG

 

Again, I am trying to track this down. Someone posted that cause on one of these threads, with no source, or corroboration. Looking to nail down a definitive trail of information. Was this a comment from the USCG overheard by someone on the Grandeur, or was this reported to the media?

[grand isle joe]

Again, I am trying to track this down. Someone posted that cause on one of these threads, with no source, or corroboration. Looking to nail down a definitive trail of information. Was this a comment from the USCG overheard by someone on the Grandeur, or was this reported to the media?

 

 

 

 

......maybe like our President he gets all his info from "reading the papers".....;):rolleyes:

[albether7]

So I guess the dragons theory is a bust then?

 

Last cruise, the popular observation was the opposite ...

and this is fact, not theory...It was the "busts" that were a-draggn':p

Al

[Annefran]

Hi all,

 

We heard on the Freedom of the Seas last week from one of the waiters that saw the email; it was due to paint cans in the lower part of the ship. Not sure whether the electrical part ignited the paint cans or not. But that's what we were told. Such a shame, I hope that RCI can get the ship up and running soon. So glad no one was hurt too.

[Big_G]

Last cruise, the popular observation was the opposite ...

and this is fact, not theory...It was the "busts" that were a-draggn':p

Al

 

I can vouch for that. :D:D

 

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk 2

[chengkp75]

Again, I am trying to track this down. Someone posted that cause on one of these threads, with no source, or corroboration. Looking to nail down a definitive trail of information. Was this a comment from the USCG overheard by someone on the Grandeur, or was this reported to the media?

 

Okay, I found a report on WBAL the Baltimore TV station, that says that an RCI official stated it was an electrical fire. That was on May 28. Wonder why there has been no further word, or word from official sources. Could be that it was the initial thought, and further investigation found some deeper root cause. To me, the electrical fire makes a lot of sense, though the equipment in that area is not used much at night.

[BillB48]

An electrical fire of course be started by the conductors to any of the equipment shorting out thereby providing a heat source without actually being used. Also a malfunctioning motor controller to any of the winches causing power to be applied to the winch motor in a locked rotor state, that could build up sufficient heat over a period of time. Considering she sailed from Port Canaveral around 9PM and the fire broke out sometime before 3AM..... that's not a huge lapse of time for something like that to percolate. Heck the mystery maybe solved! Seriously I to wonder why if this turns out to be the case why some of this info had not been eased out ahead of an official finding. A cause such as that would certainly appear to put the cause of the fire in the much more difficult to predict and avoid.

[Capt_BJ]

1. If you had a house fire, your insurance company would NOT like speculation about the cause in the media. Same thing applies here to a much higer $$.

 

2. USCG and NTSB have no jurisdiction in this event but have been invited to participate by the 'flag state' which I believe IS the Bahamas (the flag the ship sails under). Any opinions will be passed to the flag state. NTSB does not list this incident as an open investigation on their web site .... IOW they are advising, not investigating

[Big_G]

Yes. That figures. Paranoids who have a vendetta against tobacco. :rolleyes:

 

Same goes for posters like SPD who have a vendetta against cuddly animals :D

 

JB :)

 

Hey, I got nothing against dragons. It's the irresponsible owners who let them go in the 'wild' when they get to big for their condos and/or apartments that I have a problem with.

[chengkp75]

1. If you had a house fire, your insurance company would NOT like speculation about the cause in the media. Same thing applies here to a much higer $$.

 

2. USCG and NTSB have no jurisdiction in this event but have been invited to participate by the 'flag state' which I believe IS the Bahamas (the flag the ship sails under). Any opinions will be passed to the flag state. NTSB does not list this incident as an open investigation on their web site .... IOW they are advising, not investigating

 

Agreed, but just look at the Triumph fire, where the USCG issued a statement as to the cause of the fire (broken fuel line) within days, and they are not lead on that investigation, either. I'm not looking for speculation, and I've posted several times about the investigation process, and how I feel it will take some time, but it would appear to be a complex cause, or there would have been some statement issued.

[z44212]

I've conducted mishap investigations before, and they take months to do well.

[cruisnseas]

Agreed, but just look at the Triumph fire, where the USCG issued a statement as to the cause of the fire (broken fuel line) within days, and they are not lead on that investigation, either. I'm not looking for speculation, and I've posted several times about the investigation process, and how I feel it will take some time, but it would appear to be a complex cause, or there would have been some statement issued.

 

Not necessarily. Many times the cause is known early on but reports don't come out until all is settled with the insurance folks.

 

Good gracious we really have become instant gratification folks.

[grand isle joe]

I've conducted mishap investigations before, and they take months to do well.

 

 

 

...and then when the Bahamian "officials" are involved......Oye vey.....:eek:

[Korianto]

It will take time...that's why many wished the ship would have been in US waters, so the United States would have taken the lead. Now we have to wait on the Bahaman Officials, but at least there's an NTSB observer watching them. Personally, I'm sure that the fire began in, or near, the Port corner of the Stern. (That's the area where I saw smoke and flames originating from when I looked through my Cabin's Glass Slider.) From there it must have spread across the entire Mooring Deck and up into parts of Deck's 4, 5, and 6. The flames at times must have been horrendous, reaching far up to Decks 7 and 8.

 

 

How, or why will be decided by the investigators. I do have one question I would like them to answer -

 

What caused that rather large explosion in the vicinity of the fire? It happened about one minute after the Captain made his second announcement early that morning, the one where he told Passengers that the Fire was in the Aft Section of the ship. After that explosion occurred, the fire seemed to expand in its fury, and spread more along the port side of the Stern. I really didn't think explosions occurred in "Electrical" Fires...or do they? And that Fire spread across that entire Mooring Deck? Why?

 

 

According to NTSB's Report on the Carnival Ecstasy, http://www.ntsb.gov/doclib/reports/2001/MAR0101.pdf

 

New Recommendations (on page 79) were issued to all the major cruise lines that had ships with the same type of mooring deck designs. Royal Caribbean received them. The main recommendation was to:

 

"install fire detection and suppression systems on mooring decks that carry high fire loads and presently have no automatic fire protection."

 

Again, why did the fire spread across the entire Mooring Deck, especially if there was supposed to be, at the least, Automatic Fire Protection? i.e. suppression, detection, and fighting,

 

And, I still wonder - how come no Videos of the actual Fire have come to anyone's attention? Surely someone must have taken video, either on our ship, the Coast Guard Cutters, or on the Carnival Sensation (that was supposedly in sight). Yet videos still haven't surfaced - WHY?

 

As for the cause, we can endlessly speculate, but eventually the "How, or why" will be decided by the investigators. When that will be released is anyone's guess. Royal Caribbean registers their ships with the Bahaman Government. I am sure their Executives will have some control over the investigation itself, money does have power, don't you agree?

 

 

K

 

 

p.s. Yes, I saw many Maintenance Crew painting items around the ship. I also saw Maintenance Crews using rather large cans of Varnish to redo those Crew Raft Racks on Deck 5. I wondered what deck they stored them at the end of their day.

[Korianto]

Forgot to say -

 

my Grandfather was a Lieutenant in the New York City Fire Department. He taught me quite a bit about Fires, their causes, and what to do in a Fire Emergency.

 

He also worked in a Fire Boat down on the East River for a good number of years, fighting ship fires and the like. To me it was a horrible job - fighting flames, the heat, and then he'd come home stinking of smoke all the time. That, the smell of smoke still haunts me.

 

I guess that's why I was horrified when I found out we had to stay in our stinking cabin for another day. That smell of smoke permeated everything in there, yet my good friends at the Guest Services Counter, said No, we're not in an affected Cabin. And why I was horrified when I saw how the Fire had actually spread across the decks of the ship. Something went wrong, horribly wrong, and I sure hope the Investigators get to the bottom of this to determine the cause, and make recommendations to prevent this type of blaze in the future.

 

k

[reallyitsmema]

Forgot to say -

 

my Grandfather was a Lieutenant in the New York City Fire Department. He taught me quite a bit about Fires, their causes, and what to do in a Fire Emergency.

 

He also worked in a Fire Boat down on the East River for a good number of years, fighting ship fires and the like. To me it was a horrible job - fighting flames, the heat, and then he'd come home stinking of smoke all the time. That, the smell of smoke still haunts me.

 

I guess that's why I was horrified when I found out we had to stay in our stinking cabin for another day. That smell of smoke permeated everything in there, yet my good friends at the Guest Services Counter, said No, we're not in an affected Cabin. And why I was horrified when I saw how the Fire had actually spread across the decks of the ship. Something went wrong, horribly wrong, and I sure hope the Investigators get to the bottom of this to determine the cause, and make recommendations to prevent this type of blaze in the future.

 

k

Interesting new additions to your story.

[chengkp75]

It will take time...that's why many wished the ship would have been in US waters, so the United States would have taken the lead. Now we have to wait on the Bahaman Officials, but at least there's an NTSB observer watching them. Personally, I'm sure that the fire began in, or near, the Port corner of the Stern. (That's the area where I saw smoke and flames originating from when I looked through my Cabin's Glass Slider.) From there it must have spread across the entire Mooring Deck and up into parts of Deck's 4, 5, and 6. The flames at times must have been horrendous, reaching far up to Decks 7 and 8.

 

 

How, or why will be decided by the investigators. I do have one question I would like them to answer -

 

What caused that rather large explosion in the vicinity of the fire? It happened about one minute after the Captain made his second announcement early that morning, the one where he told Passengers that the Fire was in the Aft Section of the ship. After that explosion occurred, the fire seemed to expand in its fury, and spread more along the port side of the Stern. I really didn't think explosions occurred in "Electrical" Fires...or do they? And that Fire spread across that entire Mooring Deck? Why?

 

 

According to NTSB's Report on the Carnival Ecstasy, http://www.ntsb.gov/doclib/reports/2001/MAR0101.pdf

 

New Recommendations (on page 79) were issued to all the major cruise lines that had ships with the same type of mooring deck designs. Royal Caribbean received them. The main recommendation was to:

 

"install fire detection and suppression systems on mooring decks that carry high fire loads and presently have no automatic fire protection."

 

Again, why did the fire spread across the entire Mooring Deck, especially if there was supposed to be, at the least, Automatic Fire Protection? i.e. suppression, detection, and fighting,

 

And, I still wonder - how come no Videos of the actual Fire have come to anyone's attention? Surely someone must have taken video, either on our ship, the Coast Guard Cutters, or on the Carnival Sensation (that was supposedly in sight). Yet videos still haven't surfaced - WHY?

 

As for the cause, we can endlessly speculate, but eventually the "How, or why" will be decided by the investigators. When that will be released is anyone's guess. Royal Caribbean registers their ships with the Bahaman Government. I am sure their Executives will have some control over the investigation itself, money does have power, don't you agree?

 

 

K

 

 

p.s. Yes, I saw many Maintenance Crew painting items around the ship. I also saw Maintenance Crews using rather large cans of Varnish to redo those Crew Raft Racks on Deck 5. I wondered what deck they stored them at the end of their day.

 

I'm sorry, but you still seem to be misinformed. If the vessel had been in US waters, the USCG and NTSB would STILL NOT be the "lead" agencies in the investigation. They would still have been called in for consulting, but the Bahamas Maritime Agency would still be the lead investigation agency since the ship is flagged in the Bahamas.

 

As part of your misinformation, you quote the NTSB report on the Carnival Splendor fire. However, as you noted, the RECOMMENDATION for fire detection and suppression systems on the mooring deck, is only that: a recommendation. Since the ships are not US flagged, they do not have to adhere to the NTSB recommendation. I don't see an amendment to the IMO code about this recommendation, and without an IMO regulation, it would be up to the Bahamas Maritime Authority and/or the classification society that underwrites the vessel to determine whether or not the ship needs to meet the NTSB recommendation.

 

Even with a sprinkler system on the mooring deck, a sprinkler system is a fire suppression system, not a fire extinguishing system. The mooring deck is one space, open to the outside, so a fire anywhere in the mooring deck would spread across the space, regardless of a sprinkler.

 

A former crewmember has mentioned that a bosun's store is in the area near the mooring deck. There would normally be a paint storage locker there, which is an approved flammable liquid storage room. The explosion could have been sealed paint cans exploding, or they could have been the CO2 cylinders in the liferafts exploding.

 

An electrical fire does not refer to a type of fire, but more to the ignition source. An electrical fire usually becomes a class "A" (combustible solids) or class "B" (combustible liquid) depending on what the spark or heat the electrical problem ignites. Once you remove the electrical current from the equipment, an electrical fire becomes an "A" or "B", and can be treated as one or the other.

 

Are you claiming a "cover-up" of fire videos? Really? I'll tell you that the USCG crew on the cutter have better things to do than amateur videos while on duty.

 

While you denigrate the Bahamas Maritime Authority as being susceptible to bribery, you forget that the USCG and NTSB, which you regard as the holy of holy's, will issue independent reports. Are they susceptible to bribery? It's just that the USCG and NTSB reports will be only RECOMMENDATIONS.

 

As I've said before, you can't have it both ways. Why do you think the cruise lines flag their ships in the Bahamas, Panama, or Liberia? It costs less to meet their crewing, training, and safety requirements than a US flag ship. If you don't feel safe sailing on a ship that is regulated by a foreign country, either vote with your pocketbook and boycott the foreign ships, or make your voice heard to Congress to require all cruise ships home ported in US ports to be US flag. That's the only way you will get full US protection.

 

And your continued complaint about customer service should be placed in a separate thread from this one that is concerned with the cause and the investigation of the fire, not RCI's customer service.

[billie5]

Thank you Cheng for an intelligent post -- in short supply on this thread.

[lady_cruiser]

I'm sorry, but you still seem to be misinformed.............

 

Thank you for your post. It is well written and very educational.

[grand isle joe]

Forgot to say -

 

my Grandfather was a Lieutenant in the New York City Fire Department. He taught me quite a bit about Fires, their causes, and what to do in a Fire Emergency.

 

 

k

 

 

......so he must have told you countless stories of "insurance lightning fires" and "mob inspired combustions".............;):D