Planned New Builds - NCL and RCI gearing up!!

[Tom-n-Cheryl]

It would appear, at least from what I can gather on Wikipedia, that both NCL and RCI are going into shipbuilding mode. Just a few weeks ago NCL introduced the Breakaway, with more on the horizon. RCI has four ships in the works. Carnival has but one on the drawing board, and it's not due for another 3+ years.

 

********************************************************

 

NCL (from Wikipedia):

 

 

RCI (from Wikipedia):

 

 

Carnival (from Wikipedia):

 

********************************************************

 

Also worthy of note is that Carnival's new ship continues their tradition of offering ships with a lower Space Ratio than both NCL and RCI.

 

Space Ratio "defined":

 

 

Out of these three lines, RCI appears to be the most generous with space, followed by NCL (not too much better than Carnival), and lastly Carnival. Yet the trend with all three seems to be lower space ratios (more people for a given space). Good use of space and passenger flow in areas can help to offset what might be a (relatively) lower space ratio.

 

Here are some space ratio figures (from Travelocity):

 

RCI

Freedom Class.. = 44

Oasis Class.......= 40 (at least one more of these coming along)

Quantum Class. = 39 (one being built, two more planned)

 

NCL

Jewel Class...... = 38-39

F3 (Epic) Class.. = 36

Breakaway Class = 35 (Getaway being built)

Breakaway Plus.. = ?? (two planned)

 

Carnival

Conquest Class.. = 36

Dream Class...... = 35

"Sunshine" Class = 33

NEW Class........ = 33.75 (based on 135,000 tons/4000 guests)

 

LONG ago (in a galaxy far, far away) Carnival had the right idea - the Spirit class ships boasted a space ratio of 41. They remain our personal favorite class of Carnival ships. We've taken four cruises on Dream class ships and can't say we're fans (probably won't sail on one again). With luck, perhaps their new build will have something which causes us to say "let's book it"!

 

On our Allure (Oasis class) sailing earlier this year it rained EVERY day of the cruise, thus all the people that would be at any one of the numerous outdoor spaces found themselves INSIDE. That did tend to make the otherwise spacious ship feel crowded. On our Oasis sailing last month (very nice weather) the difference was obvious. Looking forward to what the Quantum class brings to the table.

 

We felt the Epic had ample room in most places, though my feeling is the effective space ratio for a majority of guests may be a bit lower than the published stats - owing to the space that The (suites only) Haven occupies. It never felt crowded there to us. As soon as we ventured forth, however, we did find some places that seemed crunched: can you say casino??

 

Hoping that Pt. Canaveral will eventually be home to a Quantum or Oasis class ship! Additionally, we'd love to see ANY of the newer NCL ships homeported here... or for that matter a Solstice class ship - heck I'd just like to see one of those sailing year around from somewhere in FL !! :D

 

 

Tom

[Keith1010]

Good information.

 

Keith

[CarnivalBreeze319]

Very nice. Let me add to this that Carnival's new build will not take place until late 2016, almost 2017 :eek:

[mafig]

Thanks, Tom. This is good information.:)

 

I've always read that Epic "felt" crowded, compared to Oasis which I was on that wasn't the least bit crowded in feeling or reality. (However, we had nice weather). I can't imagine how crowded the new Carnival ships will feel (and be).

[Phlybice]

Now if Carnival can only start using materials on their ships other than plastic and fake wood, now that Farcus is hands off.

[spencercoop]

Carnival needs to start ordering more ships that are innovative so they can stay competitive in the market. If they don't start ordering new ships they are going to continue to fall behind RCI and NCL.

[djwood24]

Carnival is probably ordering Tug Boats....

 

Sorry couldn`t resist.....I apoligize

[Chief yak]

Hopefully they will be using some innovative designers to keep up with NCL and RCCL or they will be lost in the dust.

[skittl1321]

How much of the space ratio on NCL is for suite passengers though? Seems like that would dramatically skew the actual space available for the lowely steerage class.

 

I don't spend as much time on the RCCL board, so I don't know about them, but it seems NCL has TONS of area restricted to only certain guests.

 

 

Personally, I don't like the giant ship trend, so I don't care Carnival isn't building them.

[S.S.Oceanlover]

It would appear, at least from what I can gather on Wikipedia, that both NCL and RCI are going into shipbuilding mode. Just a few weeks ago NCL introduced the Breakaway, with more on the horizon. RCI has four ships in the works. Carnival has but one on the drawing board, and it's not due for another 3+ years.

 

 

Out of these three lines, RCI appears to be the most generous with space, followed by NCL (not too much better than Carnival), and lastly Carnival. Yet the trend with all three seems to be lower space ratios (more people for a given space). Good use of space and passenger flow in areas can help to offset what might be a (relatively) lower space ratio.

 

 

 

Tom

 

Maybe CCL is content on making Frankeships.:(

 

Bill

[Tom-n-Cheryl]

Hopefully they will be using some innovative designers to keep up with NCL and RCCL or they will be lost in the dust.

 

Innovation will be key.

 

How much of the space ratio on NCL is for suite passengers though? Seems like that would dramatically skew the actual space available for the lowely steerage class.

 

I don't spend as much time on the RCCL board, so I don't know about them, but it seems NCL has TONS of area restricted to only certain guests.

 

 

Personally, I don't like the giant ship trend, so I don't care Carnival isn't building them.

 

I'd like to see them take their business out of Italian shipyards and back to those who built the Spirit class ships (Finland?). "Not huge" is OK with me, as long as they build nice features and are well built.

 

Tom

[wanderingjew]

Somebody here thinks Lipstick on pigs ala sunshine & Triumph is the wave of the future saving money then selling cabins for half price is a better plan no wonder he likes cahill over uncle bob LOL

[joepeka]

Innovation will be key.

 

 

 

I'd like to see them take their business out of Italian shipyards and back to those who built the Spirit class ships (Finland?). "Not huge" is OK with me, as long as they build nice features and are well built.

 

Tom

I think you're right: all the Spirit class ships were built in Finland, although I'm not sure how much the builder influences things that passengers would really notice and appreciate. And given the problems reported on the Sunshine update at Fincantieri, CCL really should try to get away from there for future builds/rebuilds. Regardless, I agree that the Spirit class is our favorite (we also like the HAL Vista class, very similar). Thanks for the info on upcoming new builds. :)

[Tom-n-Cheryl]

Somebody here thinks Lipstick on pigs ala sunshine & Triumph is the wave of the future saving money then selling cabins for half price is a better plan no wonder he likes cahill over uncle bob LOL

 

Are they planning on a rename/drydock for the Triumph as well now?

 

Tom

[joepeka]

Are they planning on a rename/drydock for the Triumph as well now?

 

Tom

I'm guessing they're done spending any more money on Triumph for the foreseeable future..... unless something goes wrong again. :D

[wanderingjew]

Are they planning on a rename/drydock for the Triumph as well now?

 

Tom

Carnival Menu?

[Tom-n-Cheryl]

I'm guessing they're done spending any more money on Triumph for the foreseeable future..... unless something goes wrong again. :D

 

Ah yes... the "incident"... :)

 

Tom

[Gypsywych]

Thanks Tom. Really interesting information!

[chengkp75]

I think you're right: all the Spirit class ships were built in Finland, although I'm not sure how much the builder influences things that passengers would really notice and appreciate. And given the problems reported on the Sunshine update at Fincantieri, CCL really should try to get away from there for future builds/rebuilds. Regardless, I agree that the Spirit class is our favorite (we also like the HAL Vista class, very similar). Thanks for the info on upcoming new builds. :)

 

I really wouldn't bash Fincantieri that much. Cruise ships being the essentially "custom builds" that they are, ship design is much more a cooperative venture between the cruise line and the shipyard than cargo ships. So what is included in a ship, from power generation configuration to public areas are co-designed by the line and the yard.

 

Public spaces and passenger cabins are frequently designed, fabricated, and installed by sub-contractors. Cabins are sub-contracted to several companies, many of which may not even be in Italy, and they are shipped complete to the yard for installation in the hull.

 

So, any shortcomings in amenities, equipment, or design, can be laid at the feet of the cruise line as much or more so than the shipyard. The yard will build what the line wants.

[Tom-n-Cheryl]

I really wouldn't bash Fincantieri that much. Cruise ships being the essentially "custom builds" that they are, ship design is much more a cooperative venture between the cruise line and the shipyard than cargo ships. So what is included in a ship, from power generation configuration to public areas are co-designed by the line and the yard.

 

Public spaces and passenger cabins are frequently designed, fabricated, and installed by sub-contractors. Cabins are sub-contracted to several companies, many of which may not even be in Italy, and they are shipped complete to the yard for installation in the hull.

 

So, any shortcomings in amenities, equipment, or design, can be laid at the feet of the cruise line as much or more so than the shipyard. The yard will build what the line wants.

 

Thanks!

 

... and no doubt Carnival gets what they pay for!

 

Tom

[S.S.Oceanlover]

I really wouldn't bash Fincantieri that much. Cruise ships being the essentially "custom builds" that they are, ship design is much more a cooperative venture between the cruise line and the shipyard than cargo ships. So what is included in a ship, from power generation configuration to public areas are co-designed by the line and the yard.

 

Public spaces and passenger cabins are frequently designed, fabricated, and installed by sub-contractors. Cabins are sub-contracted to several companies, many of which may not even be in Italy, and they are shipped complete to the yard for installation in the hull.

 

So, any shortcomings in amenities, equipment, or design, can be laid at the feet of the cruise line as much or more so than the shipyard. The yard will build what the line wants.

 

You wouldn't bash the Fincantieri that much for the Sabatoge their workers did during the drydock and refurb of the Destiny/Sunshine?

 

Bill

[joepeka]

I really wouldn't bash Fincantieri that much. Cruise ships being the essentially "custom builds" that they are, ship design is much more a cooperative venture between the cruise line and the shipyard than cargo ships. So what is included in a ship, from power generation configuration to public areas are co-designed by the line and the yard.

 

Public spaces and passenger cabins are frequently designed, fabricated, and installed by sub-contractors. Cabins are sub-contracted to several companies, many of which may not even be in Italy, and they are shipped complete to the yard for installation in the hull.

 

So, any shortcomings in amenities, equipment, or design, can be laid at the feet of the cruise line as much or more so than the shipyard. The yard will build what the line wants.

Yes, I think your last statement is what was behind my comment about the passengers not really noticing anything that the builder influences significantly. I used to be a project manager so I do understand that they can build whatever the cruise line wants (within technological limits).... for a price.

[chengkp75]

You wouldn't bash the Fincantieri that much for the Sabatoge their workers did during the drydock and refurb of the Destiny/Sunshine?

 

Bill

 

What's the source of your statement of sabotage? Having supervised many drydockings in my career, including 2 cruise ship dockings, it is the owner's responsibility to witness, inspect, and require a operation test, of anything the yard has done. This happens constantly during the docking, not just at the end. If things don't work after a drydocking, it is the owner's responsibility, as they could have required it to be fixed before the ship leaves the yard.

[creeblee]

I really don't understand why so many Carnival haters roam this board...

[Tom-n-Cheryl]

I really don't understand why so many Carnival haters roam this board...

 

Some of us are more passionate about Carnival than actual "haters". I would love to see Carnival "be all it can be"... but that, sadly, seems to be fading. Still, I hold out hope.

 

In the meantime, my future cruise mixture will continue to include mostly NON-Carnival owned lines.

 

Tom