brian_uk Posted July 29, 2013 #1 Share Posted July 29, 2013 Just back from a fabulous Marina Cruise to the Baltics but can someone please explain why the Spa staff claim the 18% is NOT for them and they expect an additional tip ? More questions will follow............... Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RetiredFL Posted July 29, 2013 #2 Share Posted July 29, 2013 We have never used the spa and it seems pushy for them to "claim" an additional tip but I suspect that since the spa is run by a concessionaire and the spa workers are not employees of Oceania they do not participate in the pool. (Canyon Ranch Spa is a US land based resort chain) However when we have been lucky to have had a butler we learned that the butlers are also not employees of Oceania but work for a company that specialized in butlers and supplies them to many ships. In spite of that they participate in the tip pool or at least Oceania collects tips for them. In spite of the above I agree that their compensation/charges should be included in the tip pool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
computerworks Posted July 30, 2013 #3 Share Posted July 30, 2013 ... we learned that the butlers are also not employees of Oceania but work for a company that specialized in butlers and supplies them to many ships. Really!?? :eek: Is this true? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypercafe Posted July 30, 2013 #4 Share Posted July 30, 2013 Regardless of what they said if I paid 300$ for a spa treatment and then paid a 54$ tip on top of that, that is all they would get. My golden rule is if a person tells me the tip I gave them is too small I reduce it to 0$. Regardless of how the line pays the crew my idear of a tip is going above the service my fare has already pain for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare ORV Posted July 30, 2013 #5 Share Posted July 30, 2013 Regardless of what they said if I paid 300$ for a spa treatment and then paid a 54$ tip on top of that, that is all they would get. My golden rule is if a person tells me the tip I gave them is too small I reduce it to 0$. Regardless of how the line pays the crew my idear of a tip is going above the service my fare has already pain for. Pain??, yes sometimes it feels that way:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPR Posted July 30, 2013 #6 Share Posted July 30, 2013 The 18% IS the tip, as far as we're concerned. We did not leave anything extra. Any issue is between Oceania and Canyon Ranch. By the way, creeping tip percentages are an outrage. Used to be 10%, then 12.5%, then 15%, then 18%, and now 20%. Employers are thrilled, since they can pay proportionately less and reap the bottom line benefit. I tip 15% for good service, 18% or so for exceptional services, 0-10% for bad to mediocre service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jadragnfly Posted July 30, 2013 #7 Share Posted July 30, 2013 why PAY for bad service with a tip? doesn't this just encourage them to keep giving no or lousy service? plz answer im wondering.. so I pay 200 for a massage and they want 40 more on top of 185 because oceania blablabla? sheesh very bold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypercafe Posted July 30, 2013 #8 Share Posted July 30, 2013 Many people seem to feel sorry for the staff. If I get a 300$ treatment and pay a 54$ surcharge on top of it that as a auto tip that's 27$ an hour plus free room and board and whatever salary is given. Not something to feel bad about. If I buy a 100$ bottle of wine that's 18$ surcharge/tip for 15 min work. That's over 50$ an hour, not bad. So I have no problem paying the surcharge/tip the line has set but no more. After all many many people in the US work for minimum wage and no 18% tip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare LHT28 Posted July 30, 2013 #9 Share Posted July 30, 2013 I agree 18% is plenty ..they would have to be VERY spectacular to get extra From O website Gratuities An 18 percent service charge is included in all listed prices. Any additional gratuities for exceptional service are appreciated, but not expected. http://www.oceaniacruises.com/ships/marina/lifestyle/default.aspx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caos52 Posted July 30, 2013 #10 Share Posted July 30, 2013 Regardless of what they said if I paid 300$ for a spa treatment and then paid a 54$ tip on top of that, that is all they would get. My golden rule is if a person tells me the tip I gave them is too small I reduce it to 0$. Regardless of how the line pays the crew my idear of a tip is going above the service my fare has already pain for. Perfectly put and echoes my feelings too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawaiidan Posted July 30, 2013 #11 Share Posted July 30, 2013 I agree 18% is plenty ..they would have to be VERY spectacular to get extra From O website Gratuities An 18 percent service charge is included in all listed prices. Any additional gratuities for exceptional service are appreciated, but not expected. http://www.oceaniacruises.com/ships/marina/lifestyle/default.aspx That is more than enough I worked in professions and never ever got a tip.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wripro Posted July 30, 2013 #12 Share Posted July 30, 2013 Many restaurants in Europe now hand Americans credit card charge slips with a line for tips. When confronted and told that tips are included they lie and say the management takes the included gratuities and tips are extra. This appears to be happening here as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RetiredFL Posted July 30, 2013 #13 Share Posted July 30, 2013 We have never used the spa but I agree that if 18% is included in the price nothing more should be given. If I were told what Brian was told I would have gone straight to management, both of Canyon Ranch and the ship, and reported the person. This should not be tolerated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TKS Posted July 30, 2013 #14 Share Posted July 30, 2013 I'm usually a pretty generous tipper. But when a tip is demanded, I don't leave 0. I leave $0.02. Just so they know I've given them my two cents worth. The insult is usually well understood. But then, demanding a tip is also pretty rude, isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curtdesilets Posted July 30, 2013 #15 Share Posted July 30, 2013 My wife didn't realize that there was an automatic 18% service charge already included in the bill. Isn't that the tip?? On the Hand Written Receipt, there was an additional line for "Tip", and it wasn't all that clear that the 18% was already included.. So she added another 20% to the already inflated 18% total. In essence, the provider got 1.18 x 1.20 = a 41.6% Tip!! That is insane, and in my mind, FRAUD! I explained this on the mid-cruise review, but no one ever contacted me to discuss. I had a service later in the cruise, and added a $20 tip for good service to a $154 treatment. That makes sense, but adding 20% to an already inflated 18% does not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warburg Posted July 30, 2013 #16 Share Posted July 30, 2013 I use the salon for nails and hair on every voyage. I have never been told anything about staff compensation, and the gratuity has been clearly marked on the bill, at least it was in March on Riviera. On both Riviera trips, my hair stylist and manicurist were the same. They remembered me, and seemed genuinely glad to see me again. Great work, too. On some other cruises Steiner was the provider, and Canyon Ranch is infinitely better. Canyon personnel don't push products to drive up the bill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian_uk Posted July 30, 2013 Author #17 Share Posted July 30, 2013 Many restaurants in Europe now hand Americans credit card charge slips with a line for tips. When confronted and told that tips are included they lie and say the management takes the included gratuities and tips are extra. This appears to be happening here as well. You are right (almost) that this applied in European restaurants but this is generally on the Continent of Europe....excluding St Petersburg........... In the UK and the rest of the detached section tips are generally excluded unless specifically stated. Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fairbourne Posted July 30, 2013 #18 Share Posted July 30, 2013 In the UK more and more often now when you are handed the credit card machine, there is a screen for the customer to add a tip and they tell you! I hate this assumption. Anyway to get back to the spa, I think 18% is way enough, too much if I am honest, but I'm a mean old Scot! ;) and to add more is ridiculous! We did get conned a couple of years back with this on Seabourn when my DH added a tip before realising that a gratuity has already been charged. Sneaky, I called it then, and sneaky it is now if this is what is happening! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Noxequifans Posted July 30, 2013 #19 Share Posted July 30, 2013 I got a superb haircut on the Riveria last month. I was fully aware there was an 18% gratuity and gave an extra $5 for a great job from a pleasant South African stylist. The total was less than I regularly pay here in NY City .... Thus, no complaint here. Gene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oceans&Rivers Posted July 30, 2013 #20 Share Posted July 30, 2013 The 18% IS the tip, as far as we're concerned. We did not leave anything extra. Any issue is between Oceania and Canyon Ranch. By the way, creeping tip percentages are an outrage. Used to be 10%, then 12.5%, then 15%, then 18%, and now 20%. Employers are thrilled, since they can pay proportionately less and reap the bottom line benefit. I tip 15% for good service, 18% or so for exceptional services, 0-10% for bad to mediocre service. I agree with you on both counts. The 18% is the gratuity (tip) and there has been a very substantial tip "creep" suggested or enforced over the years. I have another comment to make, but I am adding it as a reply to another post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oceans&Rivers Posted July 30, 2013 #21 Share Posted July 30, 2013 My wife didn't realize that there was an automatic 18% service charge already included in the bill. Isn't that the tip?? On the Hand Written Receipt, there was an additional line for "Tip", and it wasn't all that clear that the 18% was already included.. So she added another 20% to the already inflated 18% total. In essence, the provider got 1.18 x 1.20 = a 41.6% Tip!! That is insane, and in my mind, FRAUD! I explained this on the mid-cruise review, but no one ever contacted me to discuss. I had a service later in the cruise, and added a $20 tip for good service to a $154 treatment. That makes sense, but adding 20% to an already inflated 18% does not. You described exactly what happened to me when I had a spa treatment on Regatta in 2011. I was presented with a bill and there was a proper area where everything should have been filled in by the staff. Instead, they moved the charges and gratuity up higher, leaving a big blank space, so that it appeared as if one should add a tip. I thought it was odd, but I added a tip. Once back in our stateroom, I noticed what happened, and I immediately called the salon to report the error and that I wanted the additional gratuity that I had added removed. They said they would (and they did.) My husband, a tax accountant who checks our accounts daily, verified that the charge was removed, and then the next time we went through the spa area to go to the front loungers, I spoke to the manager in person. I calmly told the manager that I didn't think it was good practice to move the description and gratuity higher on the page, and I hoped no other passenger would be tricked like that. The manager said it was a mistake of the masseuse and she would advise her not to do it again. Nevertheless, I decided I did not want to have another treatment based solely on that incident. I did not feel I would be able to relax comfortably for another massage. Now I read that the exact same thing happened to you, so I believe it is their common practice and frankly, I think it is shameful. I hope that Mr. Del Rio or Mr. Kamlani will put an end to this practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPR Posted July 31, 2013 #22 Share Posted July 31, 2013 Jadrgnfly wrote: "why PAY for bad service with a tip? doesn't this just encourage them to keep giving no or lousy service?" You misunderstood what I wrote. I said the range was 0 to 10% for bad to mediocre service. Obviously the 0 was for bad service, scaling up from there to a maximum of 10% for mediocre service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgesGal Posted July 31, 2013 #23 Share Posted July 31, 2013 In the UK more and more often now when you are handed the credit card machine, there is a screen for the customer to add a tip and they tell you! I hate this assumption. Anyway to get back to the spa, I think 18% is way enough, too much if I am honest, but I'm a mean old Scot! ;) and to add more is ridiculous! We did get conned a couple of years back with this on Seabourn when my DH added a tip before realising that a gratuity has already been charged. Sneaky, I called it then, and sneaky it is now if this is what is happening! Fairbourne, you really made me GRIN! :D:D:D My philosophy as well! Donna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaCroisiereS'amuse Posted July 31, 2013 #24 Share Posted July 31, 2013 Many restaurants in Europe now hand Americans credit card charge slips with a line for tips. When confronted and told that tips are included they lie and say the management takes the included gratuities and tips are extra. This appears to be happening here as well. Certainly here in the UK, and London in particular, tips are rarely included on a bill, and the it should state Service Included/Service Not Included. Again, in London, it has become standard practise to check with staff whether they actually receive tips added to a credit card charge, and restaurant regulars will generally tip in cash as credit card tips are usually pooled. 10-12% in the UK is generous for good service. Things change across the continent quite drastically....for example in Switzerland you would only round up to the next Franc - anything else is seen as quite gauche. Sent using the Cruise Critic forums app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roger b Posted July 31, 2013 #25 Share Posted July 31, 2013 You are right (almost) that this applied in European restaurants but this is generally on the Continent of Europe....excluding St Petersburg........... In the UK and the rest of the detached section tips are generally excluded unless specifically stated. Brian http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/cruises/9628308/Cruise-tipping-guide.html My Question is having been charged 18% service charge on everything except breathing,we are then expected to pay an eye watering $14.50 PP a day gratuity on top. Can somebody explain to me why we have to pay this top up charge on top of the service charge as to me they are one and the same. To me this is a stelf tax adding to the cruise lines bottom line and not the employees pockets!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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