Cruises leaving from unlikely places (like Greenland!)--how do they get provisioned?

[Keith1010]

If people really want to know how this works I would recommend asking on the cruise ships you sail.

 

We sail Crystal and the majority of the items do come from the USA and much is air shipped and other amounts come in via containers. Some items are purchased locally such as fruits, vegetables and some other items but the vast majority of items to come from the USA.

 

Keith

[navybankerteacher]

Yes, if the cruise begins in a port it will get provisioned there. Some items are flown in and others arrived by container.

 

I am not aware of traditional cruise lines that would start or end a cruise in Greenland.

 

Sites are carefully selected to get passengers to and from the ports where the cruise starts and ends and to provision the ship according.

 

Keith

 

It is not at all necessary for a ship to be provisioned at a port just because the cruise starts there. Given the probable lack of local produce north of the Arctic Circle, the food carrying capacity of cruise ships, the short times and distances between ports, and the obvious major costs involved in transporting provisions to Kangerlussuaq, it is highly likely that (with the possible exception of some fish) provisions are not boarded at Kangerlussuaq.

[John Bull]

Actually, JB, what Bruce posted was that the USPHS "...claims jurisdiction..." - not that it "...has jurisdiction...". There is a huge difference.

 

As a practical matter, I believe that the USPHS would attempt to limit cruise line sales in the US if there were proof that said lines were operating with reckless disregard --- and, I also believe that USPH's UK counterpart would also CLAIM appropriate jurisdiction in such a case.

 

Hi. NBT,

Yes, I did see the wording - but the intent was certainly to give that impression.

Not sure that the UK govt, despite being a nanny-state, would (or could) interfere with a non-UK ship which doesn't visit UK waters, other than with advice to the public - but a cruise line which operates with reckless disregard couldn't be booked through regular UK sources because of the potential repercussions on that source. Seen that with dodgy airlines.;)

 

Anyway, we're not talking reckless disregard - we're talking dozens of cruise lines world-wide sourcing reputable supplies from other countries.

 

If RCI were to source their wine locally instead of shipping it all from the States, mebbe they wouldn't keep running out ;)

 

JB :)

[Keith1010]

It is not at all necessary for a ship to be provisioned at a port just because the cruise starts there. Given the probable lack of local produce north of the Arctic Circle, the food carrying capacity of cruise ships, the short times and distances between ports, and the obvious major costs involved in transporting provisions to Kangerlussuaq, it is highly likely that (with the possible exception of some fish) provisions are not boarded at Kangerlussuaq.

 

I can tell you that I have taken many world cruises whose segments include dates that begin and end in ports around the world that many items are provisioned at the start of the cruise. This includes salad items, vegetables and fruit and other perishable items and even lobster that is flown in from either Maine, Australia or South Africa. Yes, some items such as beef are brought on in selected places and not every port as they can stay for several months frozen.

 

Bottom line, many items are brought on for the start of the cruise.

 

Keith

[navybankerteacher]

I can tell you that I have taken many world cruises whose segments include dates that begin and end in ports around the world that many items are provisioned at the start of the cruise. This includes salad items, vegetables and fruit and other perishable items and even lobster that is flown in from either Maine, Australia or South Africa. Yes, some items such as beef are brought on in selected places and not every port as they can stay for several months frozen.

 

Bottom line, many items are brought on for the start of the cruise.

 

Keith

 

Of course, lots of items are brought on board at lots of ports - but we were talking about Kangerlussuaq (population less than 600) - with essentially no storage or trans-shipment facilities --- very little reason fo a cruise line to bear the unnecessary cost of shipping goods there when other ports on the itinerary would be far more accommodating.

[Keith1010]

Of course, lots of items are brought on board at lots of ports - but we were talking about Kangerlussuaq (population less than 600) - with essentially no storage or trans-shipment facilities --- very little reason fo a cruise line to bear the unnecessary cost of shipping goods there when other ports on the itinerary would be far more accommodating.

 

But what major cruise line begins there cruise there.

 

I know Greenland was mentioned but I am not aware of any major cruise line that begins nor ends their cruise there.

 

Keit

[gaelsail]

I know Greenland was mentioned but I am not aware of any major cruise line that begins nor ends their cruise there.

There are several explorer ships start/finish cruises in Greenland, perhaps not 'major companies' but definitely well-established ones.

 

There are regular supply ships from mainland Europe.

[Nitemare]

believe it or not, but there are other countries that have all the necessities for human life.

 

As mentioned, the cruise starts in Greenland. Total population is under 60K. And the port in question is landlocked, with a population under 1000. I seriously doubt they have all the necessities for human life aboard a luxury cruiseline. In fact, they have no hospital, so I'd say they don't even have the necessities for human life.

 

But what major cruise line begins there cruise there.

 

I know Greenland was mentioned but I am not aware of any major cruise line that begins nor ends their cruise there.

 

Keith

 

Ponant isn't a major cruise line, but they are a well regarded luxury line with 3 ships. And they start (and end) quite a few cruises there.

 

Check out this itinerary

[dsrdsrdsr]

As mentioned, the cruise starts in Greenland. Total population is under 60K. And the port in question is landlocked, with a population under 1000. I seriously doubt they have all the necessities for human life aboard a luxury cruiseline. In fact, they have no hospital, so I'd say they don't even have the necessities for human life.

The necessities for life on a luxury line are the same as on a budget line. t's the luxuries that are different. ;)

 

I think the Greenlandic population do feel they have the essentials for living. If not, they'd move to Denmark. As far as hospitals go, there are plenty of towns in England with no hospital, and surely in the USA as well - but as long as there are ambulances, by road or air, then medical treatment is still available.

[navybankerteacher]

The necessities for life on a luxury line are the same as on a budget line. t's the luxuries that are different. ;)

 

I think the Greenlandic population do feel they have the essentials for living. If not, they'd move to Denmark. As far as hospitals go, there are plenty of towns in England with no hospital, and surely in the USA as well - but as long as there are ambulances, by road or air, then medical treatment is still available.

 

Interesting thought - of course I have always why the unemployed coal miners in West Virginai don't move to Malibu, or Hobe Sound.

[BruceMuzz]

errr, I don't think so, Bruce.:rolleyes:

 

You're effectively saying the US public health service has jurisdiction over every cruise ship of every country in the world bar North Korea.

Simply not so.

Your insider-knowledge of a US cruise line accepted, but you're seriously over-stating the powers of the US government. ;)

 

JB :)

 

I am effectively saying that the US Government CLAIMS jurisdiction over everything we do -regardless of where the ship is sailing.

How do they enforce that jurisdiction?

They threaten that if they get information that we are violating their rules anywhere in the world, they can either punish another one of our ships calling at a US port, or wait until we call at a US port, and punish us then.

The US Navy and US Customs people play the same games with us.

 

The US Government has an embargo on Cuba and Cuban Cigars.

If my foreign flag ship is sailing in China (and never goes to the USA) and sells a Cuban cigar to a european guest, my company gets a $1 Million fine from US Customs. Why? Because we sell tickets to Americans and we have other ships calling at US Ports.

 

If my foreign flag ship calls at a Cuban Port, it is not allowed to call at a US Port for at least 6 months. US Customs also throws in a veiled threat to bar any other ships from my company from calling at US Ports as well.

 

If a european passenger flies into Miami and boards my foreign flag ship, leaving for Spain, walks into the casino and wins a jackpot when we are in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean, my company must deduct US Income taxes from this European passenger's winnings before we pay him off.

 

If my foreign flag ship is sailing in China and spills a single drop of lubricating oil from our tender platform into the sea, we must notify the US Navy and Coast Guard, or face a serious fine from them.

 

When we are building a new ship in Europe, we must fly over officials from the US Public Health Service at several stages of the construction. They must inspect all Hotel Accommodations areas during construction and approve of them. If they do not inspect or do not approve, the ship may be barred from US Ports.

[John Bull]

I am effectively saying that the US Government CLAIMS jurisdiction over everything we do -regardless of where the ship is sailing.

How do they enforce that jurisdiction?

They threaten that if they get information that we are violating their rules anywhere in the world, they can either punish another one of our ships calling at a US port, or wait until we call at a US port, and punish us then.

The US Navy and US Customs people play the same games with us.

 

The US Government has an embargo on Cuba and Cuban Cigars.

If my foreign flag ship is sailing in China (and never goes to the USA) and sells a Cuban cigar to a european guest, my company gets a $1 Million fine from US Customs. Why? Because we sell tickets to Americans and we have other ships calling at US Ports.

 

If my foreign flag ship calls at a Cuban Port, it is not allowed to call at a US Port for at least 6 months. US Customs also throws in a veiled threat to bar any other ships from my company from calling at US Ports as well.

 

If a european passenger flies into Miami and boards my foreign flag ship, leaving for Spain, walks into the casino and wins a jackpot when we are in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean, my company must deduct US Income taxes from this European passenger's winnings before we pay him off.

 

If my foreign flag ship is sailing in China and spills a single drop of lubricating oil from our tender platform into the sea, we must notify the US Navy and Coast Guard, or face a serious fine from them.

 

When we are building a new ship in Europe, we must fly over officials from the US Public Health Service at several stages of the construction. They must inspect all Hotel Accommodations areas during construction and approve of them. If they do not inspect or do not approve, the ship may be barred from US Ports.

 

Hi Bruce, thanks for the response,

But clearly your experience is with a cruise line based in the US - and under Sam's thumb :D

 

On the topic of the thread:

 

USPH officials have no jurisdiction over where a Brit or Italian or Greek or Spanish or Chinese cruise ship provisions for its customers, whatever their nationality.

Nor would they claim to do so, because that would bring hoots of derision or protest.

Probably derision. :p

 

And on the face of it - though I'm no legal-eagle - unless there are strong public health grounds, a US govt edict that supplies of meat for your ship must be sourced in the USA ("The only US Certified Vendors are located in the USA") may well contravene international trade agreements. That might depend on whether those "certified vendors" import meat or sell only domestic product.

 

Going a little off-topic:

 

Been on a good few US ships but not being a cigar smoker I've never checked whether Cuban cigars were available. My guess is no, even if there were no pressure from the US govt. Solidarity & all that.

 

Yes, the US govt still has a six-month ban on any cruise ship entering the US after visiting Cuba. It has every right to enforce its own embargo in its own waters. As does every other nation.

Ships from minor European cruise lines seem to blow hot & cold about visiting Cuba - sometimes there's a glut, sometimes a dearth. Probably sound logistical reasons, but I do sometimes think that they alternate between being frightened of Uncle Sam and goading him :)

 

Not sure how the USPH officials can inspect a ship during construction if your company buys or charters it a few years into its life.

 

Yes, the US govt will enforce its own laws within its jurisdiction.

But "the United States Public Health Service claims jurisdiction on every cruise ship in the world that carries American passengers, sells tickets in the USA, or calls at a US Port - regardless of where that ship happens to be sailing."

Nah, Bruce. ;)

Even with the word "claiming" that's definitely over-stating the case.

 

Regards,

JB :)

[BruceMuzz]

Hi Bruce, thanks for the response,

But clearly your experience is with a cruise line based in the US - and under Sam's thumb :D

 

On the topic of the thread:

 

USPH officials have no jurisdiction over where a Brit or Italian or Greek or Spanish or Chinese cruise ship provisions for its customers, whatever their nationality.

Nor would they claim to do so, because that would bring hoots of derision or protest.

Probably derision. :p

 

And on the face of it - though I'm no legal-eagle - unless there are strong public health grounds, a US govt edict that supplies of meat for your ship must be sourced in the USA ("The only US Certified Vendors are located in the USA") may well contravene international trade agreements. That might depend on whether those "certified vendors" import meat or sell only domestic product.

 

Going a little off-topic:

 

Been on a good few US ships but not being a cigar smoker I've never checked whether Cuban cigars were available. My guess is no, even if there were no pressure from the US govt. Solidarity & all that.

 

Yes, the US govt still has a six-month ban on any cruise ship entering the US after visiting Cuba. It has every right to enforce its own embargo in its own waters. As does every other nation.

Ships from minor European cruise lines seem to blow hot & cold about visiting Cuba - sometimes there's a glut, sometimes a dearth. Probably sound logistical reasons, but I do sometimes think that they alternate between being frightened of Uncle Sam and goading him :)

 

Not sure how the USPH officials can inspect a ship during construction if your company buys or charters it a few years into its life.

 

Yes, the US govt will enforce its own laws within its jurisdiction.

But "the United States Public Health Service claims jurisdiction on every cruise ship in the world that carries American passengers, sells tickets in the USA, or calls at a US Port - regardless of where that ship happens to be sailing."

Nah, Bruce. ;)

Even with the word "claiming" that's definitely over-stating the case.

 

Regards,

JB :)

 

BJ,

There is only one ocean-going US Flag cruise ship in existence. It can legally sail with passengers only in Hawaii. There have been fewer that a dozen American flagged cruise ships sailing in the past 40 years. I'm not sure how you were able to sail on a "good few US Ships".

The other 245 or so international ocean-going cruise ships currently sailing do not have US Flags on their sterns, but the US Government has a great deal to say about how we operate.

 

The ship I manage has a European Flag and is currently sailing in Asia. A few months ago we had a Norwalk Virus outbreak onboard while visiting China and Korea. USPH Officials flew to Shanghai and sailed with us for 3 days. They took samples of food and other items and flew them back to the USA for testing. Why can they do this? They claim it is because my ship calls at US ports 2 or 3 months every year. My company also has other ships that occasionally call at US Ports.

 

When my ship is sailing around England, nobody on the bridge is allowed to smoke tobacco on the bridge - even in international waters. English law forbids it.

 

When my ship begins a voyage from a Spanish port, all purchases made onboard during the entire voyage must include Spanish VAT, which must be paid to the Spanish Government at the end of the cruise - even if that cruise ends in Miami.

[smeyer418]

We have a friend who did a transatlantic to Europe on a major line - can't remember which one. They ran out of bananas 3 days out of port. Figure that one out.

 

DON

poor planning.

 

They have refer(refrigerator) containers on containers ships. You can send refer containers any where in the world. Cruise lines can send them to meet a ship anywhere in the world. It takes planning. If Bananas can travel to your local supermarket from South American, they can store enough on your cruise ships from a container.

meat which is brought to all ships frozen can easily do so, Its the fresh veggies and fruits that are more difficult. that they use air delivery for. Irradiated milk can be stored in containers without any refrigeration. If you can make it to that port by air, they can send supplies that way too.

[donaldsc]

We did a HAL Voyage of the Vikings a few years back - a wonderful cruise by the way. We were returning to the ship on a tender and there were 2 crew members on the tender with several cases of fresh fish. We asked them what they were for and they said that we would be eating them the next day.

 

Definitely local provisioning.

 

DON

[John Bull]

Apologies if this bores the pants off everyone else, but Bruce's post warrants a reply ;)

 

BJ,

There is only one ocean-going US Flag cruise ship in existence. It can legally sail with passengers only in Hawaii. There have been fewer that a dozen American flagged cruise ships sailing in the past 40 years. I'm not sure how you were able to sail on a "good few US Ships".

The other 245 or so international ocean-going cruise ships currently sailing do not have US Flags on their sterns, but the US Government has a great deal to say about how we operate.

C'mon Bruce, no need to be pedantic about "US ships". :rolleyes:

You know exactly what I meant - I meant the same as 99.9% of CC member who use the words. Possibly somewhere amongst your 3000 posts you've even done it yourself.

And I'm not going to allow political-correctness to over-exert my one typing finger.

 

The ship I manage has a European Flag and is currently sailing in Asia. A few months ago we had a Norwalk Virus outbreak onboard while visiting China and Korea. USPH Officials flew to Shanghai and sailed with us for 3 days. They took samples of food and other items and flew them back to the USA for testing. Why can they do this? They claim it is because my ship calls at US ports 2 or 3 months every year. My company also has other ships that occasionally call at US Ports.

USPH have no jurisdiction when the ship is in Shanghai, but I guess they can insist on inspecting/sampling the ship there because it is likely to call at a US port on some other date & it might give them grounds for denying access to that US port. That's about as far as their rights go.

 

When my ship is sailing around England, nobody on the bridge is allowed to smoke tobacco on the bridge - even in international waters. English law forbids it.

Utter nonsense, Bruce. Nowhere can I find anything in English law that forbids smoking on the bridge of a cruise ship in international waters. Nor did I think I would. Smoking is banned in indoor workplaces in the UK, and that might include UK waters - but not international waters.

And your company can of course set its own rules re smoking on the bridge - same as a UK hotel can set its own rules re smoking in bedrooms.

If you can provide me with a reference to an English law to back your statement, I promise a grovelling apology.

But I think someone has been having you on.

 

When my ship begins a voyage from a Spanish port, all purchases made onboard during the entire voyage must include Spanish VAT, which must be paid to the Spanish Government at the end of the cruise - even if that cruise ends in Miami.

It doesn't matter whether a cruise ends across the bay in Gib, or across the Atlantic in Miami - nobody has to pay Spanish IVA on a cruise which ends up outside the EU.

Except, apparently, on your ship. :rolleyes:

Just go read some of the multitude of posts about Spanish tax by CC members who sailed out of a Spanish port!!! Some weren't charged, some were charged only while in Spanish waters, some were charged cruise-long on cruises which remained in the EU throughout.

But I've come across no-one posting that they were charged any Spanish tax throughout a cruise which ended outside the EU. Nor did I expect to.

Take five to read some of those posts, Bruce.

 

 

 

Sorry Bruce, but after over-stating the rights of the US govt, you're now over-stating the rights of the UK & Spanish govts as well.:rolleyes:

 

JB :)

[oncruisecontrol]

Multiply all the cruise ships in the world that need provisioned by a 100 times at least and you see the problem of supplying the US Military in places like Kuwait, Iraq, Afghanistan. Djibouti, etc. etc.

 

This is the kind of stuff we do for a living-moving food and staple items worldwide for cruise ships, food purveyors large and small and the US Military (who purchase through US vendors primarily). It is a totally fascinating business. Think of all the steps from a farm in Iowa to the DFAC (dining facility) in Bagram AFB, Afghanistan. It is NOT hard logistically to get product any place in the world. Just takes good planning, good co-ordination and sometimes, a VERY healthy pocketbook.

 

One of our most interesting moves was in the late 90's out of Kazakhstan-TURKISH lemonade. We actually had to hire a guy with a cart to move 6 pallets from the very small factory (someone's house actually) to the transhipment point where the product could be loaded in a container and sent to NYC. The guy that was the original purveyor just sold his import business in Brooklyn for about 5 million. And to think it all started with a cart and horses.

Sounds like you're talking about Sysco.

[bob brown]

As mentioned, the cruise starts in Greenland. Total population is under 60K. And the port in question is landlocked, with a population under 1000. I seriously doubt they have all the necessities for human life aboard a luxury cruiseline. In fact, they have no hospital, so I'd say they don't even have the necessities for human life.

 

 

 

Ponant isn't a major cruise line, but they are a well regarded luxury line with 3 ships. And they start (and end) quite a few cruises there.

 

Check out this itinerary

Wow! What an interesting itinerary....I had thought that Hapag-Lloyd was the only cruise line sailing the Northwest Passage, but now I see this and a couple of others are doing it as well. On my "bucket list", but currently out of my price range. Perhaps the fares will drop a bit with more ships doing the Passage.....guess we have "global warming" to thank for this ability.;)