Canceling gratuity

[scluvsrain]

This may be true sometimes, but I can sail on Azamara (gratuities included) as a solo for 125% and pay about the same as the 200% on HAL. Soda, enough alcohol choices for me, shuttles in various ports, and self-serve laundry (no charge for washer, dryer, soap) also included. That makes AZ cheaper for me.

 

Really? How does Azamara compare to HAL in other ways - food, cabin size, amenities, entertainment, lectures, excursions, etc?

[mudscraper]

When cruising never remove the tips from the person who has unfettered access to your toothbrush.

[popcan]

Quote

"Maybe I was wrong, but I was led to believe that the cabin stewards routinely work 12 hour days. At a low of 8 bucks an hour plus time and a half(you state that the Dutch labor laws are more generous than ours) for those 4 hours, that's at least $100 bucks a day, probably 6 days a week. If they're making that much, I find it hard to believe that they would need any more to support a family in Indonesia or the Philippines. "

 

 

So, are you suggesting that their wages should be capped to the minimum of what one needs to raise a family? And they should work 6 - 12 hour days to get it?

 

That, in a nutshell, is why unions are formed.

How would you like to have your salary evaluated that way?

I know I wouldn't!

[popcan]

Double post

[PunkiC]

We were also advised by friends who are much more experienced cruisers than we are to remove the auto tip and tip individually. We did it once and quickly learned that so doing required those we had tipped to turn in the money.

 

When we learned the facts, we advised our friends who were truly shocked at the consequences of their/our actions in removing the auto tip. So, there are some folks who honestly think they are doing something good for those that serve them by tipping directly.

 

Truth be told, I don't think I would have ever figured this out if I didn't spend a lot of time on Cruise Critic. ;)

[take us away]

How many years ago? That sounds a little like an Internet legend.

 

The facts are most cruise lines pay their staff according to an industry wide union agreement. Looking here:

 

http://www.cruiseshipjob.com/hotel.htm

 

The pay for a cabin steward is $1800-2200/month, depending on how tips are shared/apportioned. The assistant gets $12-1500/month. Again depending on tips. As HAL uses two stewards per cabin- don't think one is an assistant- assume they are both paid as stewards.

 

Remember they get housing, food, uniforms, medical care and a number of other benefits for little or no cost.

 

Yes, they work very hard, and in 99% of the time, earn every penny in the Hotel Service Charge. They are also strictly evaluated, based mostly on comments form the pax.

 

Not an internet legend - wish it was. The information was obtained in 2011 from a retired VP of hotel management for the cruise line early one morning as we enjoyed our coffee, watched the crew set up for breakfast and talked about how hard they work.

[hrhdhd]

Really? How does Azamara compare to HAL in other ways - food, cabin size, amenities, entertainment, lectures, excursions, etc?

 

Food: better, much better in the buffet.

Cabin size: smaller, although I haven't been in a suite to see how large those are. Balconies are relatively tiny.

Amenities: Not sure what you're referring to, but if it's bathroom stuff, it's perfectly fine. Robe and slippers in the cabin. Can get afternoon tea and hors d'oeuvres in any cabin. Self serve laundry is included. Fruit and flowers in the cabin.

Entertainment: Not my thing, but they have a good set of CDs (the people) and singers and dancers with usually some special act(s) -- my last cruise it was a violin player and a comedian. In italy, they brought an opera singer on board, who sang on deck during the White Night party held once per cruise.

Lectures: At least one a day. Last cruise, we had a wildlife specialist and a historian.

Excursions: A mixed bag. Some are small and intimate, others are the usual large bus with a higher chance for inconsiderate people. One excursion is included for each cruise except transatlantics, called an Azamazing Evening, set up by AZ as an exclusive event. We had a private tour of the Norway Folk Museum in Oslo with hors d'oeuvres, music, and dancing. Some events don't work as well as others, but it's a recent addition and they're still working out the kinks. In any event, you don't have to go if you don't want to.

 

You didn't ask about the crew, but they are WONDERFUL. Much more service oriented than HAL's or any other line we've sailed, and the officers are everywhere. They knew me by name, so I'd be getting off the ship and they would tell me (by name) to have a nice day. At the White Night party, I mentioned that it was getting chilly in earshot of the beverage manager, and he told a steward to go get me a blanket. Those are only a couple of examples. The crew truly are top notch.

 

Sorry for the hijack.

[Katie333]

I think the intent of the original question wasn't to tip or not to tip (tip!! :)) but that some experienced cruisers seem to prefer the 'old' style of giving out envelopes.

 

My guess is that is because of personal preference (likes to feel they are directly rewarding the individual, even though that's a misconception and may lead to actually penalizing employees), habit (this used to be the way you had to do it), cheapos (trying to save money by tipping less than the hotel charge per day).

[Randyk47]

I think the intent of the original question wasn't to tip or not to tip (tip!! :)) but that some experienced cruisers seem to prefer the 'old' style of giving out envelopes.

 

My guess is that is because of personal preference (likes to feel they are directly rewarding the individual, even though that's a misconception and may lead to actually penalizing employees), habit (this used to be the way you had to do it), cheapos (trying to save money by tipping less than the hotel charge per day).

 

As an "old timer" I have mixed thoughts and feelings about the Hotel Service Charge and beverage surcharge. No doubt it's much more convenient to not have to make sure we have X number of dollars in a mix of bills at the end of a cruise. We still tip out of hand at the end of a cruise but usually much less than years gone by. On the other hand, and I may catch some flak saying this, I don't think the HSC or beverage surcharge have improved service and actually think it's hurt. I particularly think bar service has suffered the most.

[doublebzz]

I particularly think bar service has suffered the most.

 

I agree with you, but my sense is that it has more to do with with staff reduction than tipping policy.

[cruz chic]

I agree with you, but my sense is that it has more to do with with staff reduction than tipping policy.

 

I think some of them just don't care. I saw wine stewards standing around with napkins folded over their arms. On my last cruise I told the wine steward that I didn't want my glass to go empty. He ignored that and stood at the next table making origami figures and taking pictures. The only time the service changed was when I filled out the comment card and because I was in the PH. There were very few people drinking wine. Most don't seem overly motivated.

[fokeltje]

The Dutch Flag Rules only apply to the naval personnel. No Dutch law would allow people to work more than 36 hours per week. Overtime must be paid. Also the work schedule of cabin attendants (contract for 8+ months, no holidays and then a period off the ship, unpaid, until the next contract) would never hold up under Dutch law. We pay normal salaries in the Netherlands, we only tip if a employee has delivered outstanding service, under no circumstances is this a obligation. The way (hotel) cruise-employees are rewarded for their work, should be different: pay decent wages, give them enough time off and pay them during the time they go home to visit their families. Do not let them be dependent on a ridiculous tipping system like the hotel charge.

[RuthC]

On the other hand, and I may catch some flak saying this, I don't think the HSC or beverage surcharge have improved service and actually think it's hurt. I particularly think bar service has suffered the most.

I agree with this statement wholeheartedly. There was a time when the lounge stewards really hustled. There was someone to greet you and take your order within seconds of sitting down. As soon as your drink was nearing empty, the steward was back to offer another.

Many times the steward saw me arriving, and headed off to get my drink as soon as he caught my eye! No need to even order.

Crudities, or nuts, were brought without asking when the steward learned that was something I wanted with my drink.

Although the cutbacks in staffing levels have had some impact on this score, it is not the whole story. Notice, sometime, how some lounge stewards step it up on the last couple of nights---right before additional tips and honorable mentions on the survey are in the offing.

[doublebzz]

The Dutch Flag Rules only apply to the naval personnel. No Dutch law would allow people to work more than 36 hours per week. Overtime must be paid. Also the work schedule of cabin attendants (contract for 8+ months, no holidays and then a period off the ship, unpaid, until the next contract) would never hold up under Dutch law. We pay normal salaries in the Netherlands, we only tip if a employee has delivered outstanding service, under no circumstances is this a obligation. The way (hotel) cruise-employees are rewarded for their work, should be different: pay decent wages, give them enough time off and pay them during the time they go home to visit their families. Do not let them be dependent on a ridiculous tipping system like the hotel charge.

 

If the cruise lines were to adopt a competitive wage scale as you suggest, then there would be substantial pressure to employ North Americans in these jobs. I speculate that more than 80% of HAL's clientele are from North America and would want to see job creation for their countrymen. I believe the prime reason there is no outrage about the relatively few jobs in the cruise industry for North Americans is that the jobs are going to desperately poor people from developing countries.

[Randyk47]

I agree with this statement wholeheartedly. There was a time when the lounge stewards really hustled. There was someone to greet you and take your order within seconds of sitting down. As soon as your drink was nearing empty, the steward was back to offer another.

Many times the steward saw me arriving, and headed off to get my drink as soon as he caught my eye! No need to even order.

Crudities, or nuts, were brought without asking when the steward learned that was something I wanted with my drink.

 

Although the cutbacks in staffing levels have had some impact on this score, it is not the whole story. Notice, sometime, how some lounge stewards step it up on the last couple of nights---right before additional tips and honorable mentions on the survey are in the offing.

 

Exactly our experience. It's gone from drinks on their way as soon as we enter the Crow's Nest to me having to hunt down a lounge steward on the Maasdam who was playing a card game with the bartender and other stewardess. He turned to me and said "Guess you want a drink.....almost done with this hand. I'll come see you when we're done." :mad:

[Ians Grandma]

The Dutch Flag Rules only apply to the naval personnel. No Dutch law would allow people to work more than 36 hours per week. Overtime must be paid. Also the work schedule of cabin attendants (contract for 8+ months, no holidays and then a period off the ship, unpaid, until the next contract) would never hold up under Dutch law. We pay normal salaries in the Netherlands, we only tip if a employee has delivered outstanding service, under no circumstances is this a obligation. The way (hotel) cruise-employees are rewarded for their work, should be different: pay decent wages, give them enough time off and pay them during the time they go home to visit their families. Do not let them be dependent on a ridiculous tipping system like the hotel charge.

I agree with you. Tips should not be an obligation and the crew should be paid decent wages.

[AlohaPride]

I agree with you. Tips should not be an obligation and the crew should be paid decent wages.

 

Completely agree. So, what would the solution be to get to this point?

[jakkojakko]

It seems almost everybody agrees that a different wage structure is needed on cruise ships. Complaining on cc or withholding the service charge won' t solve the problem though.

I suggest to leave the servicecharge in place and write a letter to the company.

I think it will need a lot of letters to change the system. Personally I don't see this happen in my lifetime.

 

Ps Don't forget that we are looking at this through our western eyes. In Indonesia and the Fillipines the wages are even lower for comparable jobs than on the ships. Otherwise cruise companies would have a hard time getting their ships staffed.

[SJSULIBRARIAN]

If the cruise lines were to adopt a competitive wage scale as you suggest, then there would be substantial pressure to employ North Americans in these jobs. I speculate that more than 80% of HAL's clientele are from North America and would want to see job creation for their countrymen. I believe the prime reason there is no outrage about the relatively few jobs in the cruise industry for North Americans is that the jobs are going to desperately poor people from developing countries.

 

IMO, there would not be many North Americans looking to work as dining or cabin stewards on cruise ships with the number of hours required etc. And what would a higher wage for crew do to the cost that we passengers are willing to pay? Passengers are always looking for the lowest possible cost.

[Wakepatrol]

So the bottom line is. Most passengers leave the tip in place.

 

They find the charge convenient and the staff deserving of it.

 

 

Then there's a small percentage of cheapskates who have it removed for any reason they can conjure up.

 

 

So HAL probably isn't going to reinvent the whole policy for a handful of skinflints.

[take us away]

Not an internet legend - wish it was. The information was obtained in 2011 from a retired VP of hotel management for the cruise line early one morning as we enjoyed our coffee, watched the crew set up for breakfast and talked about how hard they work.

 

So very sorry - forgot a zero - they make about $1000 a month (not the previous cited $100 per month). Still for 12-14 hours per day, 7 days a week for the length of their contract, well underpaid!

[doublebzz]

Tipping on cruise ships and their forerunners has been around longer than the ages of HAL passengers and is not likely to be changed any time soon.

[Copper10-8]

IMO, there would not be many North Americans looking to work as dining or cabin stewards on cruise ships with the number of hours required etc. And what would a higher wage for crew do to the cost that we passengers are willing to pay? Passengers are always looking for the lowest possible cost.

 

NCL America tried that concept once around Hawaii; didn't work out too well for them:cool:

[Thebes]

So very sorry - forgot a zero - they make about $1000 a month (not the previous cited $100 per month). Still for 12-14 hours per day, 7 days a week for the length of their contract, well underpaid!

 

Really ? No days off at all ?

 

 

Thank you CC family :)

[AirGorilla]

Exactly our experience. It's gone from drinks on their way as soon as we enter the Crow's Nest to me having to hunt down a lounge steward on the Maasdam who was playing a card game with the bartender and other stewardess. He turned to me and said "Guess you want a drink.....almost done with this hand. I'll come see you when we're done." :mad:

 

That really STINKS!! Maasdam, huh? Put that one on my "never cruise" list!

 

AG