Amazingly horrible incident on Celebrity Solstice

[Jane2357]

One thing that troubles me about all of this - the "event" in the martini bar that the OP was a witness too. If there was an assault committed by a passenger upon another passenger - why had they not done a thorough investigation in the 5 days since? If I'm assaulted I would expect Celebrity's security to be interviewing witnesses rather quickly. What is up with that? This is the second time in a few days where I have read of passenger on passenger assaults (the other one was not on X) and it doesn't really sound to me that the cruise lines really take it all that seriously.

[tine-tine]

Whatever your personal opinions about the op or what may have happened, the op has a valid complaint. When did Civil Liberty cease on cruise ships? Some of the responses to this persons complaint seem to be coming from a CC Junta. We all have rights and this persons Human Rights seem to have been violated, that is the right not to unlawfully detained. Celebrity was wrong as they had plenty of time to speak to op prior to disembarkation and a statement could have been obtained at a later date, granted that may have caused Celebrity some inconvenience but they are the ones looking for the statement so should have handled the matter more professionally. A short wait would have been acceptable but making the op stand and wait without an explanation and have him become stressed and frightened by their intimidating manner is certainly not.

[rdler]

I am a lawyer, and I certainly would have wanted a call if my client had been detained against his will, deprived of his liberty and threatened with arrest. As far as I can tell all that the OP did was endeavor to leave the ship at a time that was inconvenient for the head of security.

[gek]

Even though I can store numbers in my cell phone there isn't one for a lawyer. I would either have to call AAA to use their bail bond service as part of the membership or call the only other number that I could think of: CALL SAM. :D

 

I guess some people have to have a lawyer's number as they have a need for one. Am glad that I don't.

 

 

.:D

 

Yes, this is something I always wonder. Why do some people need regular access to a lawyer? Used one to handle a house purchase once and I needed some basic legal advice on another occasion but that's about it.

 

Anyway I can understand the OP's annoyance. I'd be furious, although perhaps I would have dealt with the situation with a little more patience. Like the OP I would have sent a letter of complaint and jumped on here to vent but perhaps not quite so dramatically.

[Germancruiser]

Of course it was a embarassing situation for the OP- someone said that the Security persons just did their job- also right! A Horror- Situation- well that I don´t see! Traveling into the US from Europe is also not a very pleasant situation / experience after 9/11- of course I fully appreciatethe necesity for regulations like that!

[Jade13]

I believe you are making a mountain out of a mole hill. You seem to be a difficult person to deal with :eek:and calling your lawyer at 5:30 am !

 

 

I agree. Calling an attorney at 5:30am (and writing the CEO) because one couldn't disembark the ship immediately is over the top. The OP also did not state the reason that they were held in the first place.

 

What if they could not disembark immediately because the ship had not been cleared yet?

[Jade13]

Jim,

 

Sorry you had such a bad experience at disembarkation.

 

I'm not surprised by Celebrity's response because your complaint email was terrible. It was too long, too emotional, you buried your "ask", and one of the things you asked for - the apology from the head of security - came across as petty and was never something they were going to give you. You didn't provide any proof of your damages. Additionally, you did two complaint letter no-no's: you pulled a DYKWIA and you seemed to threaten not to sail again, which makes a business much less inclined to do anything for you. If you truly think you are owed something, it's best to ask for a credit because you have to use the business again to get the credit. That's a win/win for everyone.

 

Taking you at your word, with the help of your lawyer, you could've sent a different type of letter to the General Counsel's office. Celebrity's detention of you could rise to the level of false imprisonment. (Even a detention of this limited duration could qualify and the threat to have CBP stop you would make the GC cringe). The legal route is a hard and long road and I don't think your harm is enough to go that route. Legal claims are fought more than settled.

 

Obviously, you are still angry about this. My guess is that well meaning people made mistakes and you were slightly harmed. You made your flight and you did get an apology - of sorts - from Celebrity. Other than this, wasn't it a great cruise? Can you let it go?

 

Well written and I agree the OP could have written a better letter, and instead of threatening to never sail with Celebrity again, should have just provided the taxi receipt and requested $40.00 OBC on their next cruise as compensation for their additional taxi cost.

[COMBOY]

Look, we simply don't know all the facts. We don't know Celebrity's side and we don't know what happened at the Martini bar. What we don't know why someone from Celebrity flagged the OP at disembarkation. It could have been they want to asked a few questions before they left or maybe they forgot to un-tag their account which lead to an unfortunate hold up on board costing the OP an additional $40. We all can understand that the OP was a whole lot miffed about the situation. I don't blame them. Their mind was getting off the ship and getting home; not meeting with the head of security. IMO I say eat the $40 and move on. You got a response from Celebrity and they acknowledge things weren't handle properly and will fix it in the future. No, you didn't get what you wanted because you didn't properly address the situation in your letter. The mere threat of not cruising again with Celebrity or calling lawyers will get you nothing. Why--because Celebrity either feels you are so upset with them that you won't cruise with Celebrity again so why give you anything back ($40) and/or you might seek legal action with an apology from Head of Security. Sure, you might not plan legal action, but I'm sure their legal department would not allow them to make such statements. Your situation is rare and unfortunate.

[uktog]

It's probably cost Celebrity more than $40 to deal with your "complaint". Accept that as a score draw but with you scoring an away goal ( those in the UK understand that one)

[robtulipe]

Security on cruise ships do not carry guns on them.:p

 

Although are not the norm I have seen cruiseship security personnel with sidearms on the ships I've been on and so has the poster in his post, # 58, who's quote is below.

A COP should know that these are available to cruiseship security.

 

To the poster who doubted the veracity that some security folks in the "nasty room" had side arms, I saw them, no BS. And while no one was rude, no one in there was smiling or joking around.

 

SHACO

[Mulege]

When you became obstinate you lost any power you had.

[wallie5446]

In my opinion "Amazingly horrible" is what happened to the Costa Concordia 18 months ago.

David

Yes.

[MizDemeanor]

OP....can you believe this? ...And these people actually go on cruises and pretend to be one of the genteel. What's here is monstrous and makes me 100% certain that I have no interest in even simple conversation with anyone on board. :eek:

[Lsimon]

While I am sure some of you think I am crazy or unreasonable - I really am not. After 25 cruises I have never sent in or reported a complaint. I am *NOT* one of those people.

 

Just to get a few facts correct:

 

- I was only a witness in a drunken passenger "assaulting" someone I know.

- I never called my attorney - how ever after being threatened with "stopped and detained" by border police - I was considering it.

- I asked for an apology from 1 crew member and $40. After spending tens of thousands of dollars with a company - this response was an insult. It so was not about $40 - but admitting they could have done things a whole lot better.

 

Lastly; while I do appreciate everyones comments - please ask yourself:

 

how would YOU feel if security held you against your will for 30 minutes on deck over an incident which you were only a witness to - which happened 5 days prior?

 

Just curious if you ever were actually informed that your disembarkation delay did in fact relate to the martini bar incident or if you just assumed that was the case?

[cle-guy]

I am a lawyer, and I certainly would have wanted a call if my client had been detained against his will, deprived of his liberty and threatened with arrest. As far as I can tell all that the OP did was endeavor to leave the ship at a time that was inconvenient for the head of security.

 

I wonder if US Laws apply or of the cruise ship rules do...or if the home flagged ship country laws apply....

 

I imagine the ship has the right to detain as it sees fit. Most likely cruise docs waive any rights away leaving them with the ship i'd imagine in this case no matter what laws may apply.

 

Often we forget cruise ships are not always considered "US Soil" and forget the fine print in those 20 pages of contract we agree to.

[Lsimon]

I wonder if US Laws apply or of the cruise ship rules do...or if the home flagged ship country laws apply....

 

I imagine the ship has the right to detain as it sees fit. Most likely cruise docs waive any rights away leaving them with the ship i'd imagine in this case no matter what laws may apply.

 

Often we forget cruise ships are not always considered "US Soil" and forget the fine print in those 20 pages of contract we agree to.

 

While I'm not a lawyer nor knowledgeable about maritime law, I've watched enough detective shows on TV to know that a ship docked at a USA port is subject to USA laws:rolleyes:. Of course I'm joking about the watching TV shows part, but I do believe that a ship is subject to the laws of whatever territory it currently is in.

 

I also scanned through the contract from our last cruise and didn't see anything that would allow the ship to restrain a passenger under the circumstances described anywhere in this thread. The provisons I saw that provide for a passenger to be restrained related to someone who was a danger or threat to those on the ship or to themselves.

[cle-guy]

 

Lastly; while I do appreciate everyones comments - please ask yourself:

 

how would YOU feel if security held you against your will for 30 minutes on deck over an incident which you were only a witness to - which happened 5 days prior?

 

I wouldn't sweat it as long I wasn't being waterboarded or held at gunpoint.

 

I would offer my respect to the authorities and assist as needed in their investigation as is my responsibility as a reasonable and responsible citizen who has guaranteed rights. Rights come with responsibilities. 5th grade Civics class.

 

I would not cause a scene or ask to be paid $40 for each 30 minutes waiting time.

 

Perhaps additional facts came to light after the earlier investigation, maybe the message light on your phone in the room was inoperable and you didn't know they were seeking you, perhaps they made a simple mistake and forgot to clear the message prior to disembarking. I don't know, but I do respect the authorities first and foremost.

[cle-guy]

 

I also scanned through the contract from our last cruise and didn't see anything that would allow the ship to restrain a passenger under the circumstances described anywhere in this thread. The provisons I saw that provide for a passenger to be restrained related to someone who was a danger or threat to those on the ship or to themselves.

 

What about the rules (or is it just a long-standing custom) that the Captain of the ship is the supreme ruler all else said and done, like a Captain on an airplane. In this case wouldn't the captain just say "i ordered him held until we cleared the issue" and that's that foregoing any actual language in the cruise docs making the restraint legit regardless of cruise docs and laws?

 

No lawyer here either...just my methodical mind wandering and wondering...

[broberts]

While I'm not a lawyer nor knowledgeable about maritime law, I've watched enough detective shows on TV to know that a ship docked at a USA port is subject to USA laws:rolleyes:. Of course I'm joking about the watching TV shows part, but I do believe that a ship is subject to the laws of whatever territory it currently is in.

 

I also scanned through the contract from our last cruise and didn't see anything that would allow the ship to restrain a passenger under the circumstances described anywhere in this thread. The provisons I saw that provide for a passenger to be restrained related to someone who was a danger or threat to those on the ship or to themselves.

 

I expect the agreement to obey "all laws, and rules, and policies and regulations" covers it.

[robtulipe]

I wonder if US Laws apply or of the cruise ship rules do...or if the home flagged ship country laws apply....

 

I imagine the ship has the right to detain as it sees fit. Most likely cruise docs waive any rights away leaving them with the ship i'd imagine in this case no matter what laws may apply.

 

Often we forget cruise ships are not always considered "US Soil" and forget the fine print in those 20 pages of contract we agree to.

I expect the agreement to obey "all laws, and rules, and policies and regulations" covers it.

 

Cruiseships must follow and passengers have the protection of US laws when in US port as was the case here.

It is only when the cruise ship is in international waters that most US laws don't apply.

The cruise document can not waive or take away passenger rights and protection that they are entitled to under US law when in the USA so cruiseship security don't have the right to detain as it sees fit. They must have a valid reason for doing so under US laws while in the USA or they could be subject to prosecution and/or a lawsuit.

I believe it is only a foreign country's diplomatic locations in the US and the UN Headquarters NYC that are extraterritorial so a cruiseship is not considered as being, as you termed it, US Soil.

[Ships R Great]

Maybe, since everyone has caller ID on their phones, the lawyer just did not want to pick up when he knew who it was.

 

Thanks. I just had my first out loud chuckle of the day. :) :) :)

[blueboro]

Whatever your personal opinions about the op or what may have happened, the op has a valid complaint. When did Civil Liberty cease on cruise ships? Some of the responses to this persons complaint seem to be coming from a CC Junta. We all have rights and this persons Human Rights seem to have been violated, that is the right not to unlawfully detained. Celebrity was wrong as they had plenty of time to speak to op prior to disembarkation and a statement could have been obtained at a later date, granted that may have caused Celebrity some inconvenience but they are the ones looking for the statement so should have handled the matter more professionally. A short wait would have been acceptable but making the op stand and wait without an explanation and have him become stressed and frightened by their intimidating manner is certainly not.

 

 

When did civil liberties cease...around September 11, 2001. Unfortunately, anyone who flies or travels today gives up a lot of civil and personal liberties. Either travel and agree to give them up, drive or stay on the porch.

[GaryfmCol]

I don't think I have never noticed a onboard security person carrying a holster pistol.

 

 

Me neither... :confused:

[warmwinds]

I haven't kept up with all the communiques by Mr. Bayley, but did he ever say "call me Michael"?. Maybe I'm old fashioned, but I don't think I'd send a letter to a CEO I didn't personally know and address him by his first name. I'm wondering if that got the correspondence off on the wrong foot?

 

When the altercation you witnessed in the Martini Bar took place, did they take a statement from you at the time? They must have gotten your name...did they ever tell you that you'd have to give a statement before leaving the ship?

[A Sixth?]

Just in, a snap shot of the "Martini Bar incident" :rolleyes: