Permission to disembark a day early?

[nascar junkie]

Just for grins...What if I leave a US port, get off the ship in Belize and like it so much, I just decide to stay there for a few weeks, be a beach bum, and not reboard? I have my passport so I'm in the country legally.

[BillB48]

Just for grins...What if I leave a US port, get off the ship in Belize and like it so much, I just decide to stay there for a few weeks, be a beach bum, and not reboard? I have my passport so I'm in the country legally.

 

I just read they fined a Carnival cruiser $1000 for doing just that. So probably not a good idea;).

 

When you enter a country on a port call, you are considered in transit and not officially have been admitted to the country.

 

Edit: It was Belize who did the fining, not the CBP via the PVSA. The guy had rented an apartment in town!!

http://www.7newsbelize.com/sstory.php?nid=28026&frmsrch=1

Edited April 10, 2014 by BillB48

[TravelerThom]

Just for grins...What if I leave a US port, get off the ship in Belize and like it so much, I just decide to stay there for a few weeks, be a beach bum, and not reboard? I have my passport so I'm in the country legally.

As far as the US Government is concerned this is legal. The cruise line should let you do this, but they request that you ask permission before doing so (probably to inform Belize that they have a landed [as opposed to in transit] passenger). Typically you will pay the standard full fare. I did a TransAtlantic which stopped in England the day before we terminated in the Netherlands. Many people disembarked; no reduction in fare.

 

Thom

 

PS Just read BillB48 comment. I assume this fine was by Belize (or whatever country was involved). My comments ASSUMED that you had in fact entered Belize as a declared visitor ("I'm in the country legally"), and not that you didn't bother to get permission from Belize. Belize is happy to have people stay as long as you inform them that you are there. BillB48 is correct that countries frown on people sneaking in.

Edited April 10, 2014 by TravelerThom

[nascar junkie]

So....I leave the ship and tell a Belize authority I decided to stay a while and I'm good to go. Just checking in case the old lady nags me too much about the numbers of drinks I consume and I want to leave her on the ship, watching her sail off in the sunset:D.

[Aquahound]

Exemptions are not made when a ship is repositioning. Repositioning cruises between US ports always visit a distant foreign port. When a ship moves its home port from the northeast to Florida, for instance, the repositioning cruise will usually stop in Aruba (and maybe Bonaire and/or Curaçao as well) to be in compliance with the law.

 

You're taking me too literally. I was just saying its an allowable case of disembarking in a different U.S. port than the embarkation point. I almost didn't even mention it.

[S.S.Oceanlover]

None of this "distant foreign port" stuff matters. According to the Jones Act, you cannot disembark in another U.S. port from a foreign flagged ship. The answer is no, not legally. It most certainly will result in a $300 fine. Exemptions are made when a ship is repositioning, but that is not the case here.

 

Could you post a reference to make your point as I do not believe this is in fact true.

 

This is from a very recent repositioning cruises on Carnival from Port Canaveral to New Orleans and vice versa on the Dream and Sunshine.

 

Carnival Sunshine repositioning

 

The Sunshine ship will be relocated in 2014 early Spring from New Orleans to Port Canaveral (home-port change)

 

2014 – April 6 – 11-day from New Orleans to Port Canaveral FL visiting Jamaica/Montego Bay (Apr 9), Aruba (Apr 11), Curacao (Apr 12) and USVI/St Thomas (Apr 14), to Pt Canaveral (Apr 17) – prices from $600.

 

Carnival Dream repositioning

 

The Dream ship also changes its home port in 2014 – the other way around – from Port Canaveral to New Orleans LA

 

As you can see they are visiting "distant foreign ports".

 

Carnival has also repositioned ships empty to avoid the PVSA fines.

 

I am citing CCL cruises since i am more familiar with their cruise line but the rules are the same regardless of which cruise line it is.

 

Bill

[Aquahound]

nevermind. the side argument isn't worth it.

Edited April 10, 2014 by Aquahound

[Aquahound]

Could you post a reference to make your point as I do not believe this is in fact true.

 

------->

 

You're taking me too literally. I was just saying its an allowable case of disembarking in a different U.S. port than the embarkation point. I almost didn't even mention it.

 

Ok, I admit, "exemption" wasn't the best choice of words. I didn't mean to imply it is an exempted act. It was just a poor way of saying the above.

Edited April 10, 2014 by Aquahound

[pepsicruiser]

I was on the first cruise on Legend going from Vancouver to Hawaii (no return). We got permission to disembark a day early in Kauaii instead of getting off in Honolulu the next day. We had to send a letter to Royal for permission. After we got the permission we were told to have luggage ready and we would go meet customs agents on board before leaving ship. Unfortunately the seas were too rough in Kauii and the ship didn't make port so we did end up leaving in Honolulu. Don't know if this helped.

[TravelerThom]

Again, splitting straws. It isn't incorrect to call it the Jones Act. Ref:

https://www.goccl.com/~/media/Files/Irman/bookccl/booking_procedure/TheJonesAct_ThePassengerServicesAct.htm

Bottom line, the answer to the Op's question is no.

Just because CCL got it wrong, doesn't make it right. The Jones Act [officially The Merchant Marine Act of 1920 (P.L. 66-261)] deals with cargo. The Passenger Vessel Services Act of 1886 (46 U.S.C. § 551030) deals with passengers. They are NOT the same.

 

Thom

[Aquahound]

nevermind.

Edited April 10, 2014 by Aquahound

[TravelerThom]

I was on the first cruise on Legend going from Vancouver to Hawaii (no return). We got permission to disembark a day early in Kauaii instead of getting off in Honolulu the next day. We had to send a letter to Royal for permission. After we got the permission we were told to have luggage ready and we would go meet customs agents on board before leaving ship...

A good first hand explanation of how RCI and customs would handle it. I hope that everyone noted that you were coming from Canada, and that is why you were allowed to disembark in any US port. This would not be true for the closed-loop cruise described by the OP.

[bigque]

nevermind. the side argument isn't worth it.

 

Aquahound, I don't understand why people in the thread are overlooking this which I am posting again from the link to RCI's website on the subject. I thought it would put an end to the matter when you get it from RCI instead of everybody just throwing out information based on what they think they know! Here it is again:

 

Before You Purchase

Print This Page

 

Q: Can I take a partial cruise?A: Yes! Partial cruises allow you to enjoy part of your cruise vacation in the event that you are unable to meet the ship in the scheduled boarding port, or would like to end your cruise earlier than the scheduled departure date.

 

Requests for security clearance concerning late boarding or early departure must be submitted in writing to the Guest Flight Operations office for consideration at least one week prior to sail date. Guests must have a confirmed reservation in order to receive clearance. If the reservation was made by a travel agency, the agency must submit the request on travel agency letterhead. Guests with reservations made directly through Royal Caribbean International or royalcaribbean.com can submit their own request. Please include a return fax number or e-mail address.

 

If guests are pre-approved for boarding/departure in an alternate port of call, the ship's security staff is notified to expect the guests at the designated port. The approved guests are responsible for making all travel arrangements and will incur any additional expenses (for flights, hotels, transfers to the pier, etc.). Prepaid gratuities will be added to all approved reservations for the length of cruise.

 

Restrictions: Certain countries, such as the U.S., Italy and Norway, have cabotage laws affecting passenger movements. These laws restrict foreign flag passenger vessels (such as those operated by Royal Caribbean) from transporting guests from one port to another port in the same country. In the U.S., the cabotage law applicable to the cruise industry is commonly called the Jones Act but is legally titled the Passengers Services Act. A brief summary of this U.S. law follows:

 

If a passenger (as listed on a vessel passenger manifest) embarks in a U.S. port and the vessel calls in a nearby foreign port (such as Ensenada, Grand Cayman and Nassau) and then returns to the U.S., the person must disembark in the same U.S. port. A passenger who embarks and disembarks in two different U.S. ports (such as Los Angeles and San Diego) would result in the carrier (not the violator) being fined. The vessel must call in a distant foreign port before the U.S. embarkation and disembarkation ports can differ. The nearest distant foreign ports are in or off the coast of South America. If either the passenger's embarkation port or disembarkation port is in a foreign country, then the provisions of this cabotage law do not apply. Nor do they apply in Puerto Rico and the U.S. Virgin Islands.

Similar passenger movement restrictions exist for cruise vessels calling in Italy and Norway.

 

Please direct any requests and/or questions to the following e-mail address or fax number:

Fax Number: (305) 373-6695

E-mail: AirSeaGFO@RCCL.com

 

Request Form

 

Royal Caribbean International maintains the right to deviate from any scheduled port of call without prior notice. Royal Caribbean International is not legally liable for any loss to guests caused by reason of the deviation. In addition, while Royal Caribbean International will attempt to follow our published schedules as closely as possible, they are not responsible if the published times at any ports of call cannot be adhered to. However, Royal Caribbean International will attempt to keep our guests informed of any changes.

Edited April 10, 2014 by bigque

[TravelerThom]

...I don't understand why people in the thread are overlooking this which I am posting again from the link to RCI's website on the subject. I thought it would put an end to the matter when you get it from RCI instead of everybody just throwing out information based on what they think they know!...

Sorry, but I trust my specific references to the Merchant Marine Act of 1920 (introduced by Sen. Wesley Jones R-WA)(Public Law 66-261) and the Passenger Vessel Services Act of 1886 (46 United States Code § 551030) a lot more than what is stated by either RCI or CCL. Wesley Jones was not even old enough to have served in the House, much less the Senate, when PVSA was enacted into law, so it is not correct to refer to PVSA using his name. If you believe everything that RCI tells you I have a very nice bridge for sale.

 

I do however concur with RCI's synopsis of the PSVA.

 

Thom

[UCF_Knight]

Is Nova Scotia considered a distant foreign port? The ship does goes into Canada before it comes back to Boston. I guess I'll call and see what they say.

 

As others said, Nova Scotia is a nearby foreign port so it wouldn't allow the passenger to disembark in Boston.

 

However, visiting Nova Scotia comes into play for a different aspect of the law. Closed loop cruises (those which begin and end at the same US port) of foreign flagged vessels must visit at least one foreign port if they also visit at least one US port other than the embarkation/debarkation port. If Royal Caribbean didn't make that stop in Canada, they would be in violation of the law and would have to pay a fine. That's why you'll never see a Royal Caribbean itinerary with all US ports. They must visit at least one foreign port on their itinerary.

 

BTW, they can do a cruise to nowhere out of a US port if they want.

[Mark_K]

I just read they fined a Carnival cruiser $1000 for doing just that. So probably not a good idea;).

 

When you enter a country on a port call, you are considered in transit and not officially have been admitted to the country.

 

Edit: It was Belize who did the fining, not the CBP via the PVSA. The guy had rented an apartment in town!!

http://www.7newsbelize.com/sstory.php?nid=28026&frmsrch=1

In the case of Jones/PVSA violations, it's the ship that gets fined. They just choose to pass it on to the passenger,

 

 

Sent using the Cruise Critic forums app

[chengkp75]

Okay, from someone who has lived the Jones Act and PVSA for the 40 years of my professional life, here is the final answer:

 

1. The only reason foreign flag ships can carry US passengers in a closed loop cruise (embark/disembark in same US port) is an exemption granted to the PVSA, with the proviso that the ship calls at a foreign port. This is why only the US flag NCL POA can do an exclusively Hawaiian cruise, as it does not go to any foreign port.

 

2. You may not disembark in a different US port from the one you embarked at (changing a closed loop cruise to an open jaw cruise), unless the ship has called at a "distant" foreign port. There are no "distant" foreign ports in North America, Central America, or the Caribbean, with the exception of the ABC islands (Aruba, Bonaire, Curacao). Canada, Central America, and the Caribbean islands are "near" foreign ports.

 

3. If you disembark early, CBP will fine the cruise line, as is clearly stated on their website, they don't care who the passenger is.

 

4. The RCI ticket contract says:

 

Passenger acknowledges that for certain voyages, such as a round-trip voyage commencing in a United States port, the Passenger must complete the

entire voyage and that failure to do so may result in a fine or other penalty being assessed by one or more governmental agencies. Passenger hereby

agrees to pay any such fine or penalty imposed because Passenger failed to complete the entire voyage and to reimburse Carrier in the event it pays

such fine or penalty. So it is your ticket contract that allows the lines to pass the fine to you, and they will.

 

5. The cruise lines will not allow you to book a cruise that violates the PVSA, because if they are found to be repeatedly in violation, their fines go up, and they could lose the right to carry passengers from US ports.

 

6. Any cruise starting or ending in a foreign port does not fall under the PVSA.

 

7. For nascar, the problem you have with getting off the ship early in Belize is that you have to request the cruise line to clear you for entry into the country with their customs people, not just be in transit for a port call. This also triggers the requirement that the line revises the passenger manifest for submission to CBP when the ship gets back to the US. The original manifest prepared at embarkation is used by CBP to "pre-screen" the passengers, which is why they allow you to cruise without a passport (pre-screening is done during the cruise). This new manifest must be submitted as soon as possible after someone disembarks (even medical disembarks), and requires time and hassle for the line. This is why many lines do not allow guests to "catch up" to a cruise when they miss the regular embarkation. Look at the NCL Dawn's problems earlier this year, because she was doing a Tampa to Tampa cruise, and also midway was boarding passengers in Belize for a Belize to Belize cruise, and this caused extra clearance with CBP in Tampa, because of the revised manifest.

[TravelerThom]

...Edit: It was Belize who did the fining, not the CBP via the PVSA. The guy had rented an apartment in town!!

http://www.7newsbelize.com/sstory.php?nid=28026&frmsrch=1

Interesting story. The last line of the linked story says "After he was able to pay the fine, he was taken back into custody by the Immigration Department, who will take him to a ship where he can leave the country."

 

I wonder why they are putting him on a ship rather than an airplane. No mention of whether he did or did not have a passport, but either way he was no longer on a closed loop cruise.

 

Thom

[chengkp75]

Interesting story. The last line of the linked story says "After he was able to pay the fine, he was taken back into custody by the Immigration Department, who will take him to a ship where he can leave the country."

 

I wonder why they are putting him on a ship rather than an airplane. No mention of whether he did or did not have a passport, but either way he was no longer on a closed loop cruise.

 

Thom

 

What does closed loop have to do with this? His cruise ended in a foreign country, so it was not the US that fined him. He was fined for illegal entry into the country, and since he was a "stowaway", and probably stated that he came in on RCI, it falls to RCI to remove him from the country and return him to the US. This happens all the time with stowaways into the US, the shipping company is liable for transport back to country of origin, so rather than pay air fare, they will just put him on the next ship making the voyage, keep him under lock down, until they land him again. I've even been on ships where CBP comes down and says "we've got these 3 guys to go back to Brazil. We know you didn't bring them in, but because we know you've brought some in before, but we didn't catch them, we're having you take them back". CBP can make up their own rules.

[cruzemaven]

Actually, I just remembered that my daughter and her husband disembarked their cruise in Nassau the day after it began. She was extremely seasick and wanted off the boat. That was about 6 years ago on a Regent cruise. The cruise went from Ft.Lauderdale to Ft. Lauderdale. There was no problem or fine...they just got off and stayed at The Atlantis for a few days and then flew home.

[negc]

Actually, I just remembered that my daughter and her husband disembarked their cruise in Nassau the day after it began. She was extremely seasick and wanted off the boat. That was about 6 years ago on a Regent cruise. The cruise went from Ft.Lauderdale to Ft. Lauderdale. There was no problem or fine...they just got off and stayed at The Atlantis for a few days and then flew home.

 

Their experience bears no relation to the scenario which you have described since her cruise ended when she and her husband disembarked from the ship in Nassau, not in a US city which is not the same as the one where you will board.

[chengkp75]

Their experience bears no relation to the scenario which you have described since her cruise ended when she and her husband disembarked from the ship in Nassau, not in a US city which is not the same as the one where you will board.

 

Correct. OP needs to understand the difference between disembarking in a foreign port, and disembarking at a US port different than the one embarked at. Going from FLL to Nassau is a foreign voyage, going from NYC to Boston via Canada is transportation between US ports by a foreign flag ship, which is what the PVSA is designed to prevent.

[Merion_Mom]

Actually, I just remembered that my daughter and her husband disembarked their cruise in Nassau the day after it began. She was extremely seasick and wanted off the boat. That was about 6 years ago on a Regent cruise. The cruise went from Ft.Lauderdale to Ft. Lauderdale. There was no problem or fine...they just got off and stayed at The Atlantis for a few days and then flew home.

 

Please just believe all of us.

 

Frankly, I cannot believe that you are not listening.

 

What you are asking - leaving on your cruise from Cape Liberty, Bayonne, New Jersey, but departing from the ship for good in Boston, Massachusetts - IS NOT ALLOWED.

 

Period.

[DrD]

Anyone else think it's time for this law to be retired? How many people today actually use ships to travel between US ports?

 

Seems silly.

[chengkp75]

Anyone else think it's time for this law to be retired? How many people today actually use ships to travel between US ports?

 

Seems silly.

 

Well, when other countries rescind their cabotage laws, we can discuss doing away with ours. The PVSA is mirrored in the aviation industry, where it is illegal to fly from one US city to another on a foreign airline. How come we don't see everyone up in arms about that? Next you would see the Staten Island ferries, and the Washington State ferries reflagged to foreign so they would not have to pay US wages, meet US safety requirements, etc.