Beware of Art Auctions on Celebrity Reflection

[nana541]

As to the OP issues, you need to tell your credit card company you bought a piece of art in Celebrity Ship, it was billed to your on-board account and was to be delivered by _____ date, whatever was noted on your purchase forms. Tell Credit card company you did not receive the art and that if Celebrity believes it is a legitimate charge, they need to now provide proof of delivery.

 

 

 

You will get nowhere with Credit card company by invoking Park West is the supplier, or Park West told you the artist didn't like the price it sold for etc...as Credit card company only cares about the name of the merchant on your billing. So tell them you want to have them issue a "partial dispute" for whatever that amount of the charge was. Start the paper chain if you haven't already, don't just call and take celebrity's word for it.

 

 

 

Without "proof of delivery" you will get your money back. Credit card company MAY even temporarily credit your whole SeaPass account back, I've had my company tell me they can't credit partially, then await the reply from X and then the Card company will charge back to your account the resolved proper billing, leaving off the portion for the undelivered art work.

 

 

 

The process can take 60 days or so as the credit card company gives the supplier a particulate amount of time to respond to the disputed claim.

 

 

 

Botom line, dispute with credit car company siting lack of delivery, and then Celebrity will need to provide appropriate "proof of delivery" by a signed fedex or UPS or other similar proof, which clearly does not exist in this case. It;s important you request PROOF OF DELIVERY, otherwise celebrity will just submit your hand signed charge slip from the auction that they used to charge your account, they now need proof they actually delivered it.

 

 

Excellent advice....

 

 

 

 

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[MickD]

We had the same thing on Royal with Art on Royal, waited 18 weeks for delivery and nothing.

Luckily we booked with Royal uk and our consumer laws are different, whoever takes the money is responsible, so as my. Credit card was charged by royal they were legally obliged to refund me, and chase art on royal for their money back.

Art on Royal are now defunct and Park West are back.

Out of the frying pan and into the fire lol.

[CruisingChick]

I cannot believe they even allowed Park West back on the ships after all the negative publicity and the trouble and law suits Park West had filed against them. I guess money talks who cares if you customers are getting scammed.

[Shining Clem]

To the OP:

 

If Park West is having an 'issue' with the artist, it is their issue, and should not delay your purchase. If they can't agree with the artist about a payment for a piece, then they need to cover the difference, and send you what you purchased or refund your money.

 

It is THEIR problem, and not an excuse for delaying your merchandise or a refund. Perhaps the artist is already owed money for previously sold paintings, and will not release further items until previous ones are paid for. There are all sorts of possibilities which may have nothing to do with you.

 

Not surprisingly they are giving you vague excuses, not valid reasons. I do not blame you for following up on this - but others are right - the issue is with Park West. Better Business Bureau? Small Claims Court? Stern letter from a lawyer? Do they ever come to hotels in your area and hold auctions? Confront them there!

 

Good luck!

[iancal]

We don't attend and would never buy anything. Just do a few googles and include the words litigation in them.

[MarkusToe]

the only reason to go there is the free champage :)

[blindrid]

This input is interesting. I stated that I believe I will prevail, but reading your responses , I now wonder! Any suggestions for making sure I win this battle ? I never received the artwork! I assume that my credi card compnay will be effective and successful with the dispute . Perhaps I should not assume!

 

Instead of filing a "dispute" with the card company, file a "fraud" claim. They will take it much more seriously. You were certainly defrauded out of money with no delivery of good as promised.

[scotslizzy]

Why would anyone turn up for the awful art auctions just to get a free glass of cheap bubbly ???

 

 

If you want to buy decent art you do not buy it on a cruise ship. No matter where you are in the world you will find local artists who would appreciate your custom and you can enjoy supporting and encouraging their future works.

 

 

I honestly cannot say I have ever seen anything worthwhile on the ships that I would ever consider parting with hard earned cash for.

 

 

 

Scotslizzy

[nana541]

We sailed on the Reflection in January. Spent hours at the auction and negotiated a fair price for a piece of artwork. By late March we still had not received the art! Called Celebrity to find out the artist had an issue. I suspect the artist didn't like the price Celebrity sold the piece for. We canceled the piece as we had waited so long. I still am fighting for the credit with Celebrity and have gotten my credit card company involved. Celebrity has responded to the dispute stating it is a legitimate charge. One hand doesn't know what the other is doing! I know I will prevail with this, but the time and phone calls and hassle are ridiculous. Totally turned off to Celebrity . They have handled this poorly and I doubt I will ever sail them again. I know for sure I wont be purchasing any artwork at an auction!

 

 

The OP may actually have bigger problems as US credit cards offer protection for a very limited time. I think it's 60 days from the time the "Disputed" item first appears on the credit card billing statement.

 

The OP purchased this "Art" on a cruise in January and this is now June. If a dispute was not filed by now he maybe SOL.....

 

 

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[hcat]

Keep pressing your credit card company...and Celeb and Park West. If the charge is legit, where is the product,?

 

Was there anything in the contract about a delivery deadline? Cancellation rights ? Did they offer to send you the product?

 

You'd think Card company would reverse the charge b/c the product was never delivered...as should Celeb..did they keep the money or send it to PW.?

 

lesson learned the hard way.,.

we .avoid them like the plague and wish others would too so they'd get off the ships..

 

if you google them, in addition to their own website, you will see links to lawsuits, complaints etc...but seems they are still top sellers

Edited June 9, 2014 by hcat

[BosoxI]

Why would anyone turn up for the awful art auctions just to get a free glass of cheap bubbly ???

 

 

If you want to buy decent art you do not buy it on a cruise ship. No matter where you are in the world you will find local artists who would appreciate your custom and you can enjoy supporting and encouraging their future works.

 

 

I honestly cannot say I have ever seen anything worthwhile on the ships that I would ever consider parting with hard earned cash for.

 

Scotslizzy

 

I agree on the cheap "champagne" but not on the purchase of art on board. We were on a Princess ship a few years ago and quite accidentally discovered a guest artist was on board, actually painting during the cruise, and selling other original oils. Excellent artist, his price was no worse than buying it in a gallery on land, and one of his paintings fit perfectly in our kitchen. Also, we had him personalize the art by adding our name on a menu in the picture and our wedding year on a street sign. Couldn't be happier, especially since it arrived quickly at home. No, it wasn't cheap, and I don't know if Princess still runs the guest program.

[Orator]

I agree on the cheap "champagne" but not on the purchase of art on board. We were on a Princess ship a few years ago and quite accidentally discovered a guest artist was on board, actually painting during the cruise, and selling other original oils. Excellent artist, his price was no worse than buying it in a gallery on land, and one of his paintings fit perfectly in our kitchen. Also, we had him personalize the art by adding our name on a menu in the picture and our wedding year on a street sign. Couldn't be happier, especially since it arrived quickly at home. No, it wasn't cheap, and I don't know if Princess still runs the guest program.

 

The warnings have been online for years. There have been reports on TV about art auctions at sea. The bottom line is that enough people participate and purchase items to make the venture profitable to both the gallery and cruise lines. I can imagine that there's quite bit of overhead involved. Park West is happy. Celebrity is happy. I would venture is guess that most of the buyers are also happy. Not my thing, although I'll sometimes sit for a few minutes and watch the show. As one advertiser used to say: "An educated buyer is the best consumer". Now, how about those "Ports of Call Shopping Guides"?

[HokiePoq]

Well, I do put some blame on Celebrity -- the shady side of the Art Auctions is well known. But just like some of the merchandise in the gift shops, or the overpriced lotions and potions and hair products sold in the spa, experienced cruisers usually know to steer clear. How many of us rushed to buy the "inch of gold" the first time we saw it?

 

There are man products of dubious quality sold not only on cruise ships, but at land-based resorts world wide. They count on the feel-good vacation mode, ply the passengers with some sparkling wine, and pretty soon…. well, sometimes in the cold light of day, the product or service just doesn't live up to the hype.

 

Now I must put a plug in for "inch of gold", lol. Satisfied customer here....no gold just chains.

Agree that the cruise lines that have art auctions share the blame as they must receive a substantial royalty for housing them aboard. I am shocked how many people attend the auctions. (We went to one our very first cruise for the free drink, but learned our lesson that it wasn't worth it..)

It seems that the same companies have the franchise for the gifts shops, spas, and art on more than one cruise line.

OP, good luck with that and I hope you have one of the credit card companies known for great customer service in matters like this.

[KW Cruisers]

WE LOVE ART!! We have a great collection at home...too bad most of the art on the ship is sub-par. The auctions on board are conducted NOTHING like a real art auction. If their art was better and more diverse, we would support the auctions. Unfortunately, they are appealing to the masses...

 

Shawn

[Beanb41]

I assume they are worth turning up to for the free bubbly or is that sub par as well

[KW Cruisers]

I assume they are worth turning up to for the free bubbly or is that sub par as well

 

You can get "bubbly" somewhere else on the ship without having to listen to the incessant ramblings of the auctioneers...I find it to be more like a game show than an art auction...but I guess handing out free sparkling wine to the passengers makes it easier to swindle them into buying something...

 

Just my two cents on these auctions. ;)

 

This being said, I will still go and check out the art pre-auction on my next cruise.

 

Shawn

[Beanb41]

You can get "bubbly" somewhere else on the ship without having to listen to the incessant ramblings of the auctioneers...I find it to be more like a game show than an art auction...but I guess handing out free sparkling wine to the passengers makes it easier to swindle them into buying something...

 

Just my two cents on these auctions. ;)

 

This being said, I will still go and check out the art pre-auction on my next cruise.

 

Shawn

 

got to do something on sea days don't we

[Lsimon]

If passengers quit buying the pieces, they would move off the ship. Enough people find value and interest in the auctions, the companies decide to stay on. Its a lot of work and effort for them each day to set up and tear it all down, so they mist be finding an economic benefit by being there.

 

As to the OP issues, you need to tell your credit card company you bought a piece of art in Celebrity Ship, it was billed to your on-board account and was to be delivered by _____ date, whatever was noted on your purchase forms. Tell Credit card company you did not receive the art and that if Celebrity believes it is a legitimate charge, they need to now provide proof of delivery.

 

You will get nowhere with Credit card company by invoking Park West is the supplier, or Park West told you the artist didn't like the price it sold for etc...as Credit card company only cares about the name of the merchant on your billing. So tell them you want to have them issue a "partial dispute" for whatever that amount of the charge was. Start the paper chain if you haven't already, don't just call and take celebrity's word for it.

 

Without "proof of delivery" you will get your money back. Credit card company MAY even temporarily credit your whole SeaPass account back, I've had my company tell me they can't credit partially, then await the reply from X and then the Card company will charge back to your account the resolved proper billing, leaving off the portion for the undelivered art work.

 

The process can take 60 days or so as the credit card company gives the supplier a particulate amount of time to respond to the disputed claim.

 

Botom line, dispute with credit car company siting lack of delivery, and then Celebrity will need to provide appropriate "proof of delivery" by a signed fedex or UPS or other similar proof, which clearly does not exist in this case. It;s important you request PROOF OF DELIVERY, otherwise celebrity will just submit your hand signed charge slip from the auction that they used to charge your account, they now need proof they actually delivered it.

 

 

I agree completely with this advice. Bringing up Park West and all the details seems like it would just ad noise to the complaint. The OP's basic problem is they paid for something they never received. Period. All the other advice Cle-Guy gives is right on too.

 

As for the whole matter of Park West and cruise ship art auctions, just Google the name Park West along with words like "complaint" or "rip off" and be ready for some entertaining and enlightening reading. My own opinion is that the scam like marketing of the art auctions and the whole port shopping consultant and recommended store scam is a black mark on the cruise lines and they should be ashamed they stoop so low to generate revenues.

Edited June 10, 2014 by Lsimon

[alcpa1]

I thought you might find this irritating and relevant to another side of Park West...

On our May 12th Infinity sailing Park West held a private auction for about 80 "guests." They commandeered the Constellation Lounge most evenings knocking out the Elite functions, took over most of Qsine and the USS on some evenings, hosted their guests on shore excursions and still managed to sell one passenger a painting for $106,000. They footed the bills for these elite buyers and even brought on board artists. There is no telling how much they made if their guests were spending that kind of dough on pieces you and I would never lay our eyes on.

We were not among the guests, of course! But we were among the many shut out of seating in the Rendezvous a couple of nights before dinner, definitely the Constellation Lounge and our bonding time with other frequent cruisers, the evenings of our choice in the specialty restaurants etc.

[kenevenpar]

I can't believe they are still called auctions. Aren't they simply a sale (the minimum price) that you can opt to exceed? I don't get it, but to each their own.

[BosoxI]

The warnings have been online for years. There have been reports on TV about art auctions at sea. The bottom line is that enough people participate and purchase items to make the venture profitable to both the gallery and cruise lines. I can imagine that there's quite bit of overhead involved. Park West is happy. Celebrity is happy. I would venture is guess that most of the buyers are also happy. Not my thing, although I'll sometimes sit for a few minutes and watch the show. As one advertiser used to say: "An educated buyer is the best consumer". Now, how about those "Ports of Call Shopping Guides"?

 

But what I described was not an auction. Each painting had a price, take it or leave it. We were fortunate in that the artist suited our taste.

[CruisingChick]

I thought you might find this irritating and relevant to another side of Park West...

On our May 12th Infinity sailing Park West held a private auction for about 80 "guests." They commandeered the Constellation Lounge most evenings knocking out the Elite functions, took over most of Qsine and the USS on some evenings, hosted their guests on shore excursions and still managed to sell one passenger a painting for $106,000. They footed the bills for these elite buyers and even brought on board artists. There is no telling how much they made if their guests were spending that kind of dough on pieces you and I would never lay our eyes on.

We were not among the guests, of course! But we were among the many shut out of seating in the Rendezvous a couple of nights before dinner, definitely the Constellation Lounge and our bonding time with other frequent cruisers, the evenings of our choice in the specialty restaurants etc.

 

If I had that kind of money the last place I'd be buying art is from Park West on a cruise ship. JMO

 

I would also be upset not having the use of the Lounge.

 

Even if you write to Celebrity to voice your concern, I'm sure it will not be heard over the ringing of the cash register (cha-ching).

[nana541]

Sadly Suni (the OP) has not returned, though he/she has posted today on another thread.....

 

Hope the OP come back and at some point updates us as to the outcome or progress.

 

 

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[suni]

Well today was interesting. Chase, my credit card company, called several times and were very proactive. They have told me that the charge has been reversed and that Celebrity will no longer dispute the charge due the fact that the artwork was "never delivered". All of the advise on this thread was very helpful and helped me the language I used with them this morning.

I promise you, I will NEVER spend another minute at an art auction on any cruise I sail on. Thanks again everyone.

Edited June 11, 2014 by suni

[suni]

And as a side note, my next cruise is on Oceania. NOT Celebrity. Overall, I was not a big Celebrity fan. To me, the Reflection was just another mega ship. Very comparable to RCCL. I am more in the mode for the smaller luxury ships now. A bit more intimate experience. I will let you know how Oceania feels when I return!