Beware additional 10% charge on purchases for ships departing Spain

[Aloha 1]

In rereading my last Post, I oversimplified the process. What I meant to say, and this is the reason that I was cautioning you about waiting too long to purchase the Beverage Package, is that:

 

If your Cruise begins in Barcelona, then the Spanish Tax will apply until such time as:

 

A) you land in an EU Country with a Tax Law which supersedes Spain's Law.

B) you land in a Free Port

C) you leave the EU, entirely

 

As our cruise is at sea on Day 2, I am assuming International waters and therefore no VAT.

[Aloha 1]

 

ROFL!! Love it!

[StanandJim]

As our cruise is at sea on Day 2, I am assuming International waters and therefore no VAT.

 

Patently the opposite of what I just wrote, but you may hope as you like.

[Aloha 1]

Patently the opposite of what I just wrote, but you may hope as you like.

 

Falls under your option #3 -leaving the EU entirely. Unless there's something about International waters I don't understand.

[LHT28]

I know it is the principal... but how much more does 10% a drink cost in the grand scheme of things;)

You have just spent thousands on a cruise

 

K.I.S. method

You either not buy anything or you pay the tax ...simple

 

me I would boycott them by not drinking or shopping :D

[StanandJim]

Falls under your option #3 -leaving the EU entirely. Unless there's something about International waters I don't understand.

 

Contrary to popular opinion, VAT Taxes are not assessed based on the location at the time of consumption, but on where the taxed merchandise came from.

 

Place of supply for goods supplied on board ships and other modes of conveyance is generally agreed to be the Port of Departure, therefore, if the ship has departed from BARCELONA, Spanish VAT would apply at least until the next landfall.

[Mura]

Interesting, Stan&Jim. I hadn't thought of that wrinkle myself!

 

Fortunately we weren't affected on our Barcelona-Rio cruise last fall. But I will be careful in the future about booking a cruise that leaves from Spain ...

 

Mura

[StanandJim]

Interesting, Stan&Jim. I hadn't thought of that wrinkle myself!

 

Fortunately we weren't affected on our Barcelona-Rio cruise last fall. But I will be careful in the future about booking a cruise that leaves from Spain ...

 

Mura

 

For what you and Howard drink, Mura, I'll pay the blasted VAT! :p:D

[Mura]

Hey, I'll take you up on that offer! Now we just have to be on the same ship at the same time...

 

Nearly made it last time, didn't we?!

 

Mura

 

(Bear in mind that *I* drink a lot more than Howard, but when someone else is buying he can be persuaded ...)

[Aloha 1]

Contrary to popular opinion, VAT Taxes are not assessed based on the location at the time of consumption, but on where the taxed merchandise came from.

 

Place of supply for goods supplied on board ships and other modes of conveyance is generally agreed to be the Port of Departure, therefore, if the ship has departed from BARCELONA, Spanish VAT would apply at least until the next landfall.

 

Ah! Now THAT makes better sense. Thanks

[rallydave]

Originally Posted by StanandJim

Contrary to popular opinion, VAT Taxes are not assessed based on the location at the time of consumption, but on where the taxed merchandise came from.

 

Place of supply for goods supplied on board ships and other modes of conveyance is generally agreed to be the Port of Departure, therefore, if the ship has departed from BARCELONA, Spanish VAT would apply at least until the next landfall.

Ah! Now THAT makes better sense. Thanks

 

Actually, IMO it makes absolutely no sense. Everything on the ship comes from various places and to calculate taxes based on what country or what state, Provence, etc. each item came from would be absolutely absurd.

 

Based on the postings regarding leaving the EU, going to a non-EU port, etc., it appears obvious that the tax is truly based on where the ship has been, is, or where it will be. With this specific tax being Spanish, it applies to every item that the tax covers no matter where it comes from.

 

To make a generalization about taxes makes no sense as each tax is based on the specific law the specifies the tax. Earlier in this thread the specific law was posted and it had absolutely nothing to do with where the merchandize came from and everything to do with the port of embarkation, future ports and EU vs. non-EU.

 

Actually most taxes on items are based on where the item is sold and nothing to do with where the items are from!!

 

A good example is that the drinks package when bought at embarkation is fully taxed with the Spanish VAT even though the ship may be in any number of non-Spanish ports, non-EU ports, and international waters for many of the days the drinks package is in effect

[StanandJim]

Think what you wish, I have no dog in this race and what I quoted came directly from the Spanish Law.

http://www.kpmg.com/global/en/issues...ges/spain.aspx

 

FYI there is never a true question about where any of the items actually come from, because Spain is aware that for legal purposes it was long ago agreed that all comestibles and potables on a ship would be assumed to come from the Debarkation Port...a fact that has been a working part of nautical common law for as long as I have been an adult.

 

As to how closely any Cruise Line adheres to the letter of the law, remains to be seen.

 

From what I understand, Spain is a lousy tipper. :D

 

 

[lyndenfa]

Depart Rome to Livorno to Portofina to Monte Carlo to Saint-Tropez France to Provence France to Mallorca Spain depart Barcelona 6am. (7 day med.)

Do you think the Italian tax will apply until we are in Spain?

 

Sorry to raise some eyebrows and it is the advice I appreciate from anyone who "gets it"

This is first med cruise, all others did not stay in EU territory.

 

Thanks.

Lynne

[StanandJim]

Depart Rome to Livorno to Portofina to Monte Carlo to Saint-Tropez France to Provence France to Mallorca Spain depart Barcelona 6am. (7 day med.)

Do you think the Italian tax will apply until we are in Spain?

 

Sorry to raise some eyebrows and it is the advice I appreciate from anyone who "gets it"

This is first med cruise, all others did not stay in EU territory.

 

Thanks.

Lynne

 

 

If Spanish Ports are interim stops on your Cruise, then you pay the Tax, only for the time that the ship is under Spanish jurisdiction.

[Caroldoll]

We left from Venice...and paid Italian taxes for all the ports until we were in Spain. This was in the boutique for EVERYTHING. I do not remember it being on liquor because we had a liquor package and bought it before we went on board.

 

For all the Spanish ports, it must have been for liquor only as I didn't see it. When I went in the boutiques there was no sign about taxes..l.as there was when I was in Italy.

 

I am not the taxing authority, but this is how it was...

 

They are VAT taxes and are refundable IF YOU TAKE THE RECEIPT AND MERCHANDISE TO A CUSTOM AGENT AS YOU LEAVE THE COUNTRY...lol fat chance! We were flying private jet and never saw a Customs Agent.

 

Certainly we were in a number of Spanish ports and never saw the sign...but did see it for Italy.

[roothy123]

Sure hope Portugal doesn't start enforcing (or legislating) VAT on cruises that originate in Portugal! One month from today we fly to Lisbon! Of course, I DO agree that 10% tax on liquor is a small amount compared to what we pay for the cruise.

 

Are any spa people out there? I'm just curious if the spa sells its products while the ship is at sea (although that apparently won't matter for cruises that start in Spain or Italy - I guess?) and if those are taxed as well. I'm not a spa person, but I AM curious!

Edited July 13, 2014 by roothy123

[roothy123]

Originally Posted by StanandJim

Contrary to popular opinion, VAT Taxes are not assessed based on the location at the time of consumption, but on where the taxed merchandise came from.

 

Place of supply for goods supplied on board ships and other modes of conveyance is generally agreed to be the Port of Departure, therefore, if the ship has departed from BARCELONA, Spanish VAT would apply at least until the next landfall.

Ah! Now THAT makes better sense. Thanks

 

Actually, IMO it makes absolutely no sense. Everything on the ship comes from various places and to calculate taxes based on what country or what state, Provence, etc. each item came from would be absolutely absurd.

 

Based on the postings regarding leaving the EU, going to a non-EU port, etc., it appears obvious that the tax is truly based on where the ship has been, is, or where it will be. With this specific tax being Spanish, it applies to every item that the tax covers no matter where it comes from.

 

To make a generalization about taxes makes no sense as each tax is based on the specific law the specifies the tax. Earlier in this thread the specific law was posted and it had absolutely nothing to do with where the merchandize came from and everything to do with the port of embarkation, future ports and EU vs. non-EU.

 

Actually most taxes on items are based on where the item is sold and nothing to do with where the items are from!!

 

A good example is that the drinks package when bought at embarkation is fully taxed with the Spanish VAT even though the ship may be in any number of non-Spanish ports, non-EU ports, and international waters for many of the days the drinks package is in effect

 

Well, I think there IS something in the legislation that addresses items manufactured in one country and sold in another, but I didn't have the legal brainpower to decipher how that applies to items sold on a cruise ship, particularly things like spa items that might have been manufactured and stocked at a port before the ship came to its port of embarkation. Since most of Europe has pretty stiff VAT taxes, I'm only hoping that other countries don't jump on Spain's bandwagon and start enforcing VAT on cruise ships, as it's nice to be able to drink and eat (VAT applies to cover charges, too - like special restaurants on other cruise lines) and buy without tax!

Edited July 13, 2014 by roothy123