Where should Vaping be allowed on ship

[pbsteve]

So with smoking gone on balconies... and please dont bother bringing it up here, theres 3 other threads on it... Where would you like to see Carnival allow Vaping.

 

If you don't know what Vaping is, please do a simple google search, or you will probably be made fun of relentlessly.

 

Please be respectful here, well thought out arguments are encouraged, because I said so or because broad statements without explanation is just counter productive.

 

My personal feeling.

Vaping should be allowed in state rooms, balconies, in the open air area's of the ship, as well as any indoor smoking areas such as the casino, Vaping leaves no residual smell or soot, so theres no damage to be done, and no smell for the next guests. I do NOT think it should be allowed in the non smoking venues such as the main theater. The reason is not for health, but because it is distracting to others. Dining room I think should also be off limits, as well as ship hallways, and non smoking indoor area's.

 

So, where do you think? Please comment as to why you voted the way you did. I am actually curious, no matter what the reason is, as I am sure many others are."

Edited July 9, 2014 by Help@

[kybluecruiser]

I still would like to know how could they tell if you use it in your stateroom?

[OCruisers]

I still would like to know how could they tell if you use it in your stateroom?

 

Not to worry. They can't! :D

No smell ... No smoke ... Just water vapor.

LuLu

[Shmoo here]

So with smoking gone on balconies... and please dont bother bringing it up here, theres 3 other threads on it... Where would you like to see Carnival allow Vaping.

 

If you don't know what Vaping is, please do a simple google search, or you will probably be made fun of relentlessly.

 

Please be respectful here, well thought out arguments are encouraged, because I said so or because broad statements without explanation is just counter productive.

 

My personal feeling.

Vaping should be allowed in state rooms, balconies, in the open air area's of the ship, as well as any indoor smoking areas such as the casino, Vaping leaves no residual smell or soot, so theres no damage to be done, and no smell for the next guests. I do NOT think it should be allowed in the non smoking venues such as the main theater. The reason is not for health, but because it is distracting to others. Dining room I think should also be off limits, as well as ship hallways, and non smoking indoor area's.

 

So, where do you think?

 

I'm going to have to take issue with this. I don't vape, but my son does. I can tell when he's doing it. And the smell hangs around.

 

Many of the juices for vaping have a scent. And, while I may be in the minority, even just hot water has as scent that I can discern.

[pbsteve]

I'm going to have to take issue with this. I don't vape, but my son does. I can tell when he's doing it. And the smell hangs around.

 

Many of the juices for vaping have a scent. And, while I may be in the minority, even just hot water has as scent that I can discern.

 

I have no doubt you can smell the vapor, but just so everyone is aware, it is NOT water vapor. That is a huge myth, it is a Propylene Glycol or Vegetable Glycerin based liquid. Both of which are chemicals used in FOOD.

 

When I said it leaves no smell, I meant long term, after at most an hour, the smell cannot be detected by 99% of people, perhaps you can smell it, but I would assume no more than if the person before you wore perfume, or the cleaning chemicals used in every cabin anyway. the smell is actually food grade flavoring.

 

And Kyle, it isn't about can they tell, its about is it allowed, I'm sure theres plenty of not allowed activities happening... including that porn made on the freedom front decks.... BUT I want to see why.

 

 

For the many voting only where cigarettes are allowed, I see only one person putting comments... I am curious as to why people say what they vote.

Edited July 9, 2014 by pbsteve

[Shmoo here]

I have no doubt you can smell the vapor, but just so everyone is aware, it is NOT water vapor. That is a huge myth, it is a Propylene Glycol or Vegetable Glycerin based liquid. Both of which are chemicals used in FOOD.

 

When I said it leaves no smell, I meant long term, after at most an hour, the smell cannot be detected by 99% of people. the smell is actually food grade flavoring.

 

I can only say that my son's room has a "smell" to it now that it didn't have before. Generally it's sort of a sweet, fruity smell. But it's there, even when he isn't actively vaping.

 

And, yes, he does air out his room frequently. It's not always a closed area. I think that anything that has a scent can stay in fabrics, and hair especially if they are frequently exposed to that scent.

[pbsteve]

I can only say that my son's room has a "smell" to it now that it didn't have before. Generally it's sort of a sweet, fruity smell. But it's there, even when he isn't actively vaping.

 

And, yes, he does air out his room frequently. It's not always a closed area. I think that anything that has a scent can stay in fabrics, and hair especially if they are frequently exposed to that scent.

 

Fair enough, thanks for your input. These are the reasons why I made the poll.

[PhoenixDawgCruising]

I am a militant non smoker with the nose of a greyhound. DH vapes and I can't smell a thing.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

[losijon]

My wife vapes now instead of smokes and 99% of the time I can't smell a thing. The rest of the time it smells like punch or grape juice for about 2 seconds and then it's gone.

 

 

.....................................................

Carnival Pride 7 day Mexican Riviera: September 2008

 

Carnival Inspiration 4 day Mexican Riviera: September 2013

 

Carnival Miracle 15 day Hawaii: coming October 2015

[chelseawynn89]

So with smoking gone on balconies... and please dont bother bringing it up here, theres 3 other threads on it... Where would you like to see Carnival allow Vaping.

 

If you don't know what Vaping is, please do a simple google search, or you will probably be made fun of relentlessly.

 

Please be respectful here, well thought out arguments are encouraged, because I said so or because broad statements without explanation is just counter productive.

 

My personal feeling.

Vaping should be allowed in state rooms, balconies, in the open air area's of the ship, as well as any indoor smoking areas such as the casino, Vaping leaves no residual smell or soot, so theres no damage to be done, and no smell for the next guests. I do NOT think it should be allowed in the non smoking venues such as the main theater. The reason is not for health, but because it is distracting to others. Dining room I think should also be off limits, as well as ship hallways, and non smoking indoor area's.

 

So, where do you think?

 

 

I completely agree with you 100%! I just hope that they will change their policy & allow it!

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

[Sundown331]

I can only say that my son's room has a "smell" to it now that it didn't have before. Generally it's sort of a sweet, fruity smell. But it's there, even when he isn't actively vaping.

 

And, yes, he does air out his room frequently. It's not always a closed area. I think that anything that has a scent can stay in fabrics, and hair especially if they are frequently exposed to that scent.

 

Sweet fruity smell huh .... He's smoking or growing weed

 

To answer the original question .... It should be allowed everywhere

[pbsteve]

Sweet fruity smell huh .... He's smoking or growing weed

 

To answer the original question .... It should be allowed everywhere

 

LOL.... actually, he may be vaping weed, doing a little research, it appears to have a fruity smell when vaped from a liquid, and it does stick around, coating things, as instead of veggy or propylene, its marijuana oil.

 

Check and see if his "juice" is thick and yellow. Most ecig juice has the consistancy of oil, not chocolate syrup.

[mapsmith]

I believe that Propylene Glycol is also antifreeze. Plus the 'juices' are not regulated so no one really knows what else is in the juice. The manufacturers do not have to reveal their concoctions.

[pbsteve]

I believe that Propylene Glycol is also antifreeze. Plus the 'juices' are not regulated so no one really knows what else is in the juice. The manufacturers do not have to reveal their concoctions.

 

oh the uninformed have arrived. I've been waiting for this all night, You were warned... here we go:

 

First, to your second part, they don't have to tell you whats in it. That is true, however they must still comply with the rules surrounding chemicals, remember, the FDA doesn't say food cannot contain lead, food cannot contain gasoline, etc. they say lead cannot be in anything ingested, gasoline cannot be in ingested items. So manufactures still have to follow FDA rules, even if specific ones haven't been created for them. For example, what is in your makeup, your perfume, your hand soap, etc. Also, every bottle of Juice I have ever bought has ingredients listed.

 

Propylene Glycol is antifreeze right?

 

Lots of things are in antifreeze, including DiHydrogenMonoxide, a deadly compound that kills 10000's per year, is the biggest part of cancerous tumors, and used in making automotive paint... and is in your purified water bottle, used to make Campbell's chicken soup, and even in the made from concentrate juice children are served at school.

 

PG is also in antifreeze, but used to make it safer.

 

Let’s start at the beginning. In 2009, the American Food and Drug Administration tested just 18 e-liquid cartridges from 2 electronic cigarette companies, and was quick to report that one sample contained diethylene glycol, a chemical used in industrial antifreeze that is toxic to humans. What they forgot to mention was that the levels found in the examined cartridge were nearly untraceable (around 1%), and certainly nowhere near the danger level. Still, diethylene glycol is NOT an e-liquid ingredient, so it shouldn’t have been found at all. Because the dangerous substance was found in one of the 18 samples, and more recent tests failed to detect it in any other e-liquids, some experts concluded it might have been contaminated in some other way. You can be sure no reputable e-liquid vendor is going to sell toxic products. They do strict tests and have quality control in place to ensure only the purest of ingredients go into their e-cigarette juices. Today, four years after the FDA’s report, there have been no cases of diethylene glycol poisonings worldwide, so I think it’s fair to say it’s not a problem worth worrying about. But e-liquid does usually contain an ingredient that’s also associated with antifreeze – propylene glycol. PG is sometimes used as an ingredient for antifreeze, but as an additive to make it less dangerous if accidentally swallowed. Propylene glycol does have a lower freezing point than water, but that doesn’t necessarily make it dangerous. In fact, PG is recognized as safe for human consumption by the FDA, and can be found in a variety of food additives and colorants, pharmaceutical inhalers or toothpaste. Also, if you own an RV and use it during the winter, you’ll be surprised to know that the water holding tank has propylene glycol in it to keep it from freezing. So yes, technically speaking, e-cigarettes can contain antifreeze, but not the dangerous industrial kind. Propylene glycol is safe, non-toxic and environmentally friendly. Sadly, that hasn’t stopped anti-e-cigarette groups from spreading misinformation and causing panic among the general public. There are articles out there that actually list diethylene glycol as an e-liquid ingredient, which is just a big lie. The fact is electronic cigarettes are gaining in popularity and threaten to cut the profits of both the tobacco and pharmaceutical industry. You best believe they aren’t sitting around doing nothing as their revenues decrease. All these people making negative claims about e-cigarettes without offering hard facts aren’t really worried about your health, they have their own agenda. So please, don’t give into your fear, do some research and try to think for yourself.

 

What is PG in?

Nearly all brands and types of creme makeup and "wrinkle creme"

bar soap / body wash

mouth wash

shampoo / conditioner

baking mixes

desserts in the bakery section of the grocery store

modified food starch

salad dressings

pre-packaged salad dressings

sauces

ointments

baby wipes

deodorant

gel cap pills and vitamins

Dolly Grand Donuts

Hostess Cupcakes and other food

Banquet Desert pies

Betty Crocker Muffin and bread mixes

Duncan Hines cake mixes

Grandma's brand salads

Pilsbury cake Mixes

Hidden valley ranch

Kens Ranch

Kraft Salad dressing

Marie's salad dressing

Old Cape Cod Dressings

Wishbone salad dressing

french's french fried onions and potato sticks

Taco Bell food <- ok, not so edible, but still

 

FYI. dihydrogenmonoxide is commonly written as h2o, water, don't believe everything you read, research yourself.

Edited July 9, 2014 by pbsteve

[pbsteve]

Don't feel bad Mapsmith, I heard the same rumor before starting to use them to quit smoking, I even went so far as to read the DOW report on Glycols, which include lab reports on mice and rats. it takes 10% of daily ingestion to cause harm in lab reports, I'd have to replace 1 of my bottles of water every day for months with pure PG to have a bad reaction.

[GROUCHPUSS]

I feel like walking through someones vapor cloud (even if you can't see the vapor cloud it is still there) would be like walking through a cough. If someone is sick that you are behind or just passing by, whatever germs they have coming out in vapor form you maybe walking right through them and not even know it. I don't want to be coughed on or sneezed on. So why would I want to be vap on?. Now I have NO medical back ground. So I could be way off base here, but I would think that the vapor coming out of another persons lungs has to have the possibility of spreading a lot of germs.

[pbsteve]

I feel like walking through someones vapor cloud (even if you can't see the vapor cloud it is still there) would be like walking through a cough. If someone is sick that you are behind or just passing by, whatever germs they have coming out in vapor form you maybe walking right through them and not even know it. I don't want to be coughed on or sneezed on. So why would I want to be vap on?. Now I have NO medical back ground. So I could be way off base here, but I would think that the vapor coming out of another persons lungs has to have the possibility of spreading a lot of germs.

Oddly enough, the exact opposite propylene glycol is a very effective killer of airborne bacteria and even the flu, I clouding h1n1. Studies go back to the 40s on it, and is still one of the best choices, since it is toxic to micro organisms, but generally safe for mammals. Sadly because it dissipates so fast, it is unrealistic to use since hvac systems move germs so fast. And pg dissipates so fast.

Google it yourself anything along the lines of propylene glycol disinfectant or can germs survive in propylene glycol, decide for yourself from the sources if you deem them reputable.

 

It's safer to walk through my cloud of vapor than your regular breath.

[Illyria]

I checked the 3rd option - anywhere but the theater, dining venues and other traditionally non-smoking venues (library, computer room, arcade, etc.)

 

I'm a militant non-smoker, and I can smell cigarette smoke a mile away - and I know that e-cigs don't bother me (well, with the exception of someone vaping in the theater or at the buffet being tacky and distracting).

Edited July 9, 2014 by Illyria

[sammee]

Everybody worried about polyglycerin, somebody please pull out a report of how much "legal" mouse or rat crap is in some of our food, or the amount of bugs.

 

The smell dissipates just like the person next to your chewing on candy or gum, unless it was spilled somewhere or somebody is doing something other than a normal ecig.

[hightownCO]

I feel like walking through someones vapor cloud (even if you can't see the vapor cloud it is still there) would be like walking through a cough. If someone is sick that you are behind or just passing by, whatever germs they have coming out in vapor form you maybe walking right through them and not even know it. I don't want to be coughed on or sneezed on. So why would I want to be vap on?. Now I have NO medical back ground. So I could be way off base here, but I would think that the vapor coming out of another persons lungs has to have the possibility of spreading a lot of germs.

 

The vapor disapates almost immediately. It's not like nasty cigarrette smoke hanging in the air.

-

I didn't feel I could answer your poll at all, OP. I don't feel vaping should be allowed in the eating venues or the theater. Aside from that do not feel there should be a ban.

[Cushing985]

I'm going to have to take issue with this. I don't vape, but my son does. I can tell when he's doing it. And the smell hangs around.

 

Many of the juices for vaping have a scent. And, while I may be in the minority, even just hot water has as scent that I can discern.

 

It can and does if the vaper uses a "candy" flavor. I sometimes use a vanilla based juice which has a pleasant odor. Regardless, I can't imagine any odor from a e-Cig being worse than an old fashion cigarette.

 

I voted for use except for the MDR and non-smoking venues (clubs, elevators, etc).

[crewsweeper]

The jury (scientific evidence/long term studies) is still out on any "no harm/no foul" vs "danger, Will Robinson" health effects for vaping and quality control for vaping products. I haven't seen any person vaping that's causing others (rabid anti-smoker, excluded) nearby to rapidly move away or socially avoid the person. But there is the social stigma of someone "puffing away" at something that a lot of people associate with smoking which fuels the anti-vaping outrage. I don't have an issue with vaping in cabins/balconies, or open air public venues on board ship ( I am a non-smoker), but there is the appearance of "permitting smoking" that leads to include vaping in all non-smoking policies. Until there is large public discourse and behavioral change/acceptance of vaping vs smoking, expect to see vaping and smoking linked together in non-smoking policies.

[beachbum53]

Thank-you, pbsteve, not only for setting up this poll, but also for providing the type of information on e-cigs that I was prepared to search for on my own. I am a smoker, and have been for many years. When we booked our upcoming cruise on the Breeze (for May 2015) this past May, it was with the knowledge (at that time) that I would be able to smoke on my balcony. And now, with the over-whelming pressure from non-smokers, yet another business has caved in to the demands of one group over another. So now, I'm faced with making a decision. Do I ignore this new ban and smoke on my balcony anyhow, at the risk of possibly getting caught and having to pay an absolutely arbitrary and ridiculous fine? Do I try nicotine gum? Do I try switching to e-cigs? ( Not that it matters here, but I hate the word "vaping". If I make the switch, I may try to come up with something that I like better). Do I cancel the cruise? Well, I'm not much of a gambler (casinos are boring to me), so the first option is out. I've tried nicotine gum before and didn't really care for it. We've been planning this cruise for about two years and are really looking forward to it, so I really don't want to cancel it. So that leaves me with going to e-cigs. We've booked a cove balcony, which is on Deck 2. To (legally) smoke a cigarette, I'd have to go up nine decks to deck 11 just so I could smoke a cigarette, and cuss out every non-smoker along the way. Not my idea of a "fun" cruise. I know that e-cigs are included in the ban, which I don't understand. However, I'm thinking that, even though they're included in the ban, puffing on an e-cig on my balcony may be less noticeable than a real cigarette. I've already called Carnival's Guest Relations number, but the lady I spoke with wasn't much help. She did give me the mailing address for Carnival Guest Care. It probably won't do much good, but I'm going to write a letter to try and get more info as to why e-cigs are included in the ban. In the meantime, I've got about ten months until our cruise. Next step for me is to read customer reviews on the various e-cigs currently on the market, and try a couple of (or more) disposables to see if I can find one I like. After this cruise, I may consider giving Norwegian a try, unless they ban smoking on balconies too.

[crewsweeper]

beachbum,

 

If you have not made final payment you might look at cancelling and then rebooking on another cruise line. I've seen posts and heard comments from other sources that other smokers are doing this and have found cruises on other lines that mirror either dates or itineraries, both, or close enough and at similar prices.

 

That said, you probably should check out how e-cigs wok and try a couple of different ones before cruising. Might be a good thing/might not be.

[dd2355]

What is PG in?

Nearly all brands and types of creme makeup and "wrinkle creme"

bar soap / body wash

[...]

french's french fried onions and potato sticks

Taco Bell food <- ok, not so edible, but still

 

Nice list. How many of these items are normally inhaled into the lungs though? :D

 

(BTW, dihydrogen monoxide is particularly deadly if inhaled in sufficient concentration/quantity... :cool:)

 

Mostly just poking at your argument from a devil's advocate standpoint. There certainly is a lot of anti-vaping FUD out there, but at the same time there's a lot of glossing over of unknowns on the pro-vaping side. My personal opinion is it's less self-destructive than tobacco, but the better solution is to quit nicotine entirely.

Edited July 9, 2014 by dd2355