Bringing your own alcohol on board Celebrity Eclipse?

[cle-guy]

Your first two sentences are guesswork whereas I prefer fact, though I agree I would rather give permission for my bottle of liquor to be destroyed than be denied boarding.

 

However you have failed to understand the difference between policy and law. It isn't Heathrow's policy that stops people boarding with banned goods, it's the law. And if drugs are proscribed by law then obviously the police do not have to return them. Common sense?

 

When commenting on the law I suggest guesswork is a poor - possible dangerous - alternative to fact. I admit my lack of knowledge of the law in other jurisdictions but I'm reasonably certain that "exceptions and nuances" do not permit theft.

 

My first 2 sentences are as much "guesswork" as your post is theoretical, unless you can pint to the LAW rather than POLICY regarding such matters.

 

What "law" says liquids are confiscated by the airport authority? In the USA it is the POLICY of the Transportation and Security Administration, not any LAW that was enacted by congress.

 

I'd be curious to see the LAW in the United Kingdom passed by Parliament that outlaws Liquids, rather than gives the airport authority the right to make policy. Not being argumentative on this point, I am actually curious. Seems enacting such laws in such minute detail would clog the system, and not allow the airport authority to react in a swift manner when necessary.

Edited November 10, 2014 by cle-guy

[DYKWIA]

There is no ban on liquids going on planes at UK airports. There are restrictions - dependent on volume, what it is, what it is used for, where it came from, and how it is being carried- and your circumstances.

 

I've heard the terms restrictions (perhaps implying policy) and regulations (implying some legal requirement - presumably punishable) used. The restrictions are nothing to do with Heathrow Airport it is government implementing EU wide decision. Despite looking I can't find any legislation.

 

The legal issue of taking liquids onto a ship will be complicated - if the security takes place at the port is that different to if it takes place on the ship? Next you'll be telling me that crafty cruise lines register their ships in countries to make it easier for them get around legislation.

Edited November 10, 2014 by DYKWIA

[DYKWIA]

In the UK they would be guilty of theft. Our definition of theft is (briefly) to permanently deprive somebody of their property. Destroying their booze would seem to fit this description. And of course the carrier's terms and conditions etc. do not over ride the law of the land.

 

:

 

Not sure they would be - Theft Act requires an element of dishonesty (complex), quite some argument to say that a ship employee as individual or the cruise company is acting dishonestly when it says "you can't bring that item on board, either leave it behind or we'll have to confiscate it".

 

If they destroy an item, on their own say-so there is an argument in English Law (if that applies which it probably wont!) then there may be an issue of Criminal Damage. The Police, for example, can't just take it upon themselves to destroy the illegal drugs they may have taken from you, even if you've been convicted.

 

I remember having a similar discussion a few years ago with a friend who worked in a jewellers shop - he claimed he was allowed to seize any fake Rolex brought into his shop and take a hammer to it - I advised him against ever doing this

Edited November 10, 2014 by DYKWIA

[Balloon Man]

I never meant my original comment to become so contentious. And I have no intention of making a citizen's arrest if my booze is poured down the drain in front of me (which is not going to happen because I don't put myself in that situation) but - in the UK - theft is, as I said, depriving someone permanently of their property. It doesn't need a dishonest intention, and while a policeman may sigh and wish you hadn't involved him in such a situation he would not be able to ignore a breach of the criminal law.

 

However, shall we move-on and discuss how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

[DYKWIA]

... but - in the UK - theft is, as I said, depriving someone permanently of their property. It doesn't need a dishonest intention, ...

 

I'll have to disagree with my learned friend

 

From the Theft Act s1(1)

A person is guilty of theft if he dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it;

 

No dishonesty, No intention, no theft. simple

 

Two Good examples (IMO) (1) is the show biz celebrity who walks out of a supermarket by accident with a bottle of booze without paying and is later found not guilty of theft. The drink was in his trolley, he left the shop, so wasn't coming back. he thought he had paid and convinced the jury he would have paid had he known, he wasn't being dishonest and had no intent. Get given too much change in a shop and without realising walk out - no problem. If, however, you do realise and walk out with extra money without asking the cashier that's theft.

 

I rest my case my case m'lud

Edited November 10, 2014 by DYKWIA

[dwhe]

Read the dress code threads where people want to go to MDR on formal night without formal wear, as an example :D

 

Or the threads where people want to bring irons or steamers, or knitting needles or craft scissors...

 

Ah sorry, I read those as questions as to whether it was allowed rather than people asking how they could get round it.

[dwhe]

Been asleep for 3 years eh Van Winkle?:eek:;)

 

 

As I said I took them as inquiries not people asking how to get round rules.

[dwhe]

This wasn't a lecture, it was my opinion.

 

This was in reply to someone who claimed to have not gone against any cruise ship rule ever, and then asked if it was OK for them to cast judgement on others..............

 

You put that in a reply to me, something I have never claimed or asked.

[dwhe]

I.E. taking a bottle of booze on a plane or possessing drugs is illegal ..

 

Depends what drugs, but I have taken booze on a plane many many times.

 

Sorry about the string of posts, just catching up.

Edited November 11, 2014 by dwhe

[DirtyDawg]

Depends what drugs, but I have taken booze on a plane many many times.

 

Sorry about the string of posts, just catching up.

 

Very true, my editor must have been asleep at the wheel on that one.;)

 

I meant to say illicit or illegal drugs, and a big booze bottle (or any big liquid bottle) in your carry-on.

 

Same point though. Big difference between those things vs. smuggling booze onto a ship. The first examples are 'illegal' and the latter is simply breaking a contract between two private entities.

 

Thanks for correcting me and giving me an excuse to get up on my soapbox again.:D

[dwhe]

No problem anytime, nice to be useful for a change :D

[Balloon Man]

I'll have to disagree with my learned friend

 

From the Theft Act s1(1)

A person is guilty of theft if he dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it;

 

No dishonesty, No intention, no theft. simple

 

Two Good examples (IMO) (1) is the show biz celebrity who walks out of a supermarket by accident with a bottle of booze without paying and is later found not guilty of theft. The drink was in his trolley, he left the shop, so wasn't coming back. he thought he had paid and convinced the jury he would have paid had he known, he wasn't being dishonest and had no intent. Get given too much change in a shop and without realising walk out - no problem. If, however, you do realise and walk out with extra money without asking the cashier that's theft.

 

I rest my case my case m'lud

 

Lovely response but denied on appeal. Dishonesty can be a lack of probity. But is better defined as an element of mens rea. I would stress this is a state of mind rather than a state of ....

 

Let me give you an example: Robin Hood robbed the rich and gave to the poor. His argument, if tried, would probably have been moral justification (cruise lines would probably plead profitable justification!). However in English law this would only count in way of mitigation. It isn't an excuse for breaking the law.

 

I never suggested that the top brass at Celebrity would be banged-up if they set-foot in the UK, but the possibility seems to have created much interest.

 

It's been fun. Court adjourned?

Edited November 11, 2014 by Balloon Man

[New Hampshire]

This wasn't a lecture, it was my opinion.

 

This was in reply to someone who claimed to have not gone against any cruise ship rule ever, and then asked if it was OK for them to cast judgement on others.

 

In earlier post I basically said only people who've never done the wrong thing can really say how bad it is to go around the bring on board rules. And I stick to that. Logically I don't see how one can complain about one person not following a rule, then go and not follow rules themselves, but in a matter they feel is acceptable to not follow, thats all. In this case, The OP feels it's fine to bend the no liquor rile, so who is it really hurting.

 

Boils down to how illogical it is for one to say "you can't break this rule, but I can brake this other rule and that's just fine."

 

 

 

Double standard.

 

 

Are you aware that is against Cruise Critic rules to advertise the names of TA's, including in signatures.

[BayAreaBC]

I wish someone would post something actually interesting about smuggling like bringing pot on board or diamonds or gold back through customs.

[dkjretired]

Your first two sentences are guesswork whereas I prefer fact, though I agree I would rather give permission for my bottle of liquor to be destroyed than be denied boarding.

 

However you have failed to understand the difference between policy and law. It isn't Heathrow's policy that stops people boarding with banned goods, it's the law. And if drugs are proscribed by law then obviously the police do not have to return them. Common sense?

 

When commenting on the law I suggest guesswork is a poor - possible dangerous - alternative to fact. I admit my lack of knowledge of the law in other jurisdictions but I'm reasonably certain that "exceptions and nuances" do not permit theft.

 

Here is the nuance that you are missing, when you arrive at the port and have illegal liquor, you still have the right to tell them no I want to put it back in my car. Problem occurs when you don't have a car, came by cab, etc, then the cruise line is taking them as a courtesy to you. In effect, they are taking the bottle with your permission therefore no theft occurred.

 

I can tell you that as a Law Enforcement officer the liquor laws in many states are very strict and there is absolutely no way this would ever be considered a theft, the ship is private property, they make the rules. Same thing as if I left a bar with a beer and went to a bar next door with the drink in my hand, private property, you get rid of it or you can't come in.

 

Also, I have never heard of anyone having the booze thrown away by Celebrity unless its an open container.

 

As far as drugs, Celebrity and NCL have signs which state that medicinal marijuana are not permitted on board. It is also not allowed in those states where it has been legalized. Remember, Marijuana possession is still illegal in the entire US under federal law.

Edited November 11, 2014 by dkjretired

[Balloon Man]

Here is the nuance that you are missing, when you arrive at the port and have illegal liquor, you still have the right to tell them no I want to put it back in my car. Problem occurs when you don't have a car, came by cab, etc, then the cruise line is taking them as a courtesy to you. In effect, they are taking the bottle with your permission therefore no theft occurred.

 

I can tell you that as a Law Enforcement officer the liquor laws in many states are very strict and there is absolutely no way this would ever be considered a theft, the ship is private property, they make the rules. Same thing as if I left a bar with a beer and went to a bar next door with the drink in my hand, private property, you get rid of it or you can't come in.

 

Oh dear. [1] If I try to take booze on board it isn't illegal. It might be against ship's rules but it isn't a felony in any civilised country. [2] They would not be taking the bottle with my permission. [3] If I am invited to your house and you steal my watch the fact it is on private property does not make it legal even if you have a sign outside saying "we steal all watches". [4] You can tell me I can't bring a drink purchased elsewhere onto your property but if you take it away from me it's theft. However you can bar admittance, which is why I said earlier that I'd let a cruise line take and destroy my booze rather than refuse me passage.

 

As for private property making their own rules, as a law enforcement officer would you sit quietly if your neighbour was selling drugs? "it's ok. It's on private property". QED.

 

But maybe the law is different in New Jersey. Perhaps everything is legal as long as it is on private property. Personally I doubt it. But I'm not a law enforcement officer. Just somebody who admits to only understanding UK law.

Edited November 12, 2014 by Balloon Man

[DirtyDawg]

I wish someone would post something actually interesting about smuggling like bringing pot on board or diamonds or gold back through customs.

 

I'd love to, but on the advice on my attorney I must plead the 5th on that one.:D

 

But I am allowed to discuss the horticultural cornucopia that can be found in South East Asia. ;)

 

Purely for academic purposes of course.

Edited November 13, 2014 by DirtyDawg

[cle-guy]

Oh dear. [1] If I try to take booze on board it isn't illegal. It might be against ship's rules but it isn't a felony in any civilised country. [2] They would not be taking the bottle with my permission. [3] If I am invited to your house and you steal my watch the fact it is on private property does not make it legal even if you have a sign outside saying "we steal all watches". [4] You can tell me I can't bring a drink purchased elsewhere onto your property but if you take it away from me it's theft. However you can bar admittance, which is why I said earlier that I'd let a cruise line take and destroy my booze rather than refuse me passage.

 

Many Liquor laws provide that a licensed premise may only allow liquor to be consumed on the licensed premise that was purchased from the licensor. Wine and Beer have different regulations than do Spirits which can explain why wine can be carried aboard.

 

I just moved into a complex that has a hotel in the bottom 14 floors, apartments in the top 14. There's a paragraph in my lease to acknowledge that if I purchase a liquor drink in the hotel facilities, I may not leave the hotel facility and bring it to my apartment due to the licensing restrictions. Further the complex is 3 separate building attached, and certain venues of the hotel, drinks may not pass between the separate buildings as each address and regulated space has its own liquor license as required by the licensing authority. This is in Ohio. Nevada however has far less restrictive rules, and allows one to buy a drink in a hotel, and walk down the city streets drinking it and taking it into another hotel. Florida, has fairly strict regulations like Ohio does, and is where many ships call a good amount of their time home.

 

Ships make their rules and policies in many instance so that they cover a wide array of legal issues, license requirements etc. Perhaps the liquor laws aren't as strict int he UK, but as the ships travel internationally, they have the rules in place to follow those laws that do exist in certain jurisdictions so they are covered regardless.

 

They may not be taking your bottle with your permission, however if you failed to grant that permission, they would prohibit your boarding the ship, at which time, most reasonable people would give up the $40 bottle of booze versus the $1000 cruise vacation.

[swerdjr]

We I guess are rule breakers! We have sailed many times on several different cruise lines and always have packed a bottle or tow of liquor to have in our cabin. We have never been "caught". So I guess you can put us in the category of rule breakers!

Edited November 13, 2014 by swerdjr

[lmaccaro]

On our Celebrity European itinerary last summer we bought wine and liquor in multiple port as gifts to bring home. Openly carried through port security and the cruise entry line. Ended up drinking some in the room. No one confiscated it or even gave it a second glance. From what I've heard, this is a pretty common practice for cruise ships over there.

 

I assume wine is a little more integral to the European way of life, and trying to confiscate your bottles would raise a big stink over there.

 

That is to say, on US-based sailings they bend us over because we take it.

[SugarBug]

Depending on the length of cruise I use different methods to smuggle alcohol on board.

 

If it is a short cruise I use a cane that I made with two sections in it. That allows me to take 2 different types if I want.

 

If it so a longer cruise I have a walker that holds about 4 bottles of alcohol in the tubes.

 

Drink up 🍸🍺🍻☕

 

Now that is HILARIOUS. Next up a hollowed out wooden leg. Just think, if you made it out of oak, you could add some additional flavor to your Scotch!

[wdblake]

Buy rum runners clear flasks.

Fill with booze.

Wrap in your clothes in your checked bag (not carry on).

Enjoy.

[prish]

On our Celebrity European itinerary last summer we bought wine and liquor in multiple port as gifts to bring home. Openly carried through port security and the cruise entry line. Ended up drinking some in the room. No one confiscated it or even gave it a second glance. From what I've heard, this is a pretty common practice for cruise ships over there.

 

I assume wine is a little more integral to the European way of life, and trying to confiscate your bottles would raise a big stink over there.

 

That is to say, on US-based sailings they bend us over because we take it.

 

We've also bought wine, liqueurs, olive oil, etc and brought them onboard in various European ports, we never tried to hide it nor did we ever have any trouble with the security. All of this was for gifts and we didn't actually drink any of it, but we oculd have if we wanted, like Imaccaro:D

[jsf]

I sure am glad I quit drinking about 25 years ago, so now I don't have to worry about how to go around the rules.

J.

[ShipsDoc46]

Always took a couple of bottle of wine onboard and its only recently that they have stipulated size i.e. 75cl but have taken in larger bottles in the past and even a wine box.

Spirits are a no-no but how they would police that I dont know.

With the freebie drinks packages havent felt the need to take alcohol on board.