1st time cruising in Europe & need advice

[chrispb]

As an American, you have to be out of your mind to go either on Costa or MSC. Read the reviews!

 

Really? How many times have you sailed with Costa?

[chrispb]

I didn't search hard for these, I just plucked them at random, they're very typical of those cruise lines.

 

Here's an MSC example:

1 depart Genoa 18:00

2 Naples [B]13:00 18:00

3 Messina 13:00 19:00 [/b]

4 La Goulette, Tunisia 09:00 17:00

5 Barcelona 07:30 16:30

6 At sea

7 Marseille 12:30 18:30

8 Return Genoa 06:00

 

I'm used to the occasional half-day on other cruise lines.

But at three ports out of five? Including Naples??

------------------------------------------

And one from Costa

1 Venice (Italy) - -

2 Venice (Italy) - 16:00

3 Split (Croatia) 08:00 13:00

4 Corfu (Greece) 09:00 14:00

5 Santorini (Greece) 15:00 21:00

6 Piraeus/Athens (Greece) 08:00 14:00

7 Istanbul (Turkey) 15:00 -

8 Istanbul (Turkey) - -

9 Istanbul (Turkey) - 16:00

10 Mykonos (Greece) 15:00 23:00

11 Santorini (Greece) 08:00 14:00

12 Argostoli/Kefallinia (Greece) 09:30 14:30

13 Dubrovnik (Croatia) 09:30 14:30

14 Venice (Italy) 12:00

 

I make that a half-day in 8 ports out 10.

Including depart Piraeus 2pm, which effectively means depart Athens 122.30.

 

Like I said, do watch out for times in port, especially on the Italian lines. ;)

 

JB :)

 

Yes, agree they're not good times at all. Cut backs seem to be everywhere in one shape or form.

[Hlitner]

JB raises an excellent point about European cruises (or any cruise). Before you book, take a good look at the details of the itinerary. Shortened port times are not a good thing on any cruise, but especially bad in Europe where ultimate destinations can often be more then an hour from a port. Also look carefully at where a cruise will be on Sundays and Mondays (almost like Sunday in many parts of Italy). I could fill a page in a book with cruisers we have met who were disappointed to find that the Vatican Museums (Sistine Chapel) is not open on most Sundays, Topkapi Palace is closed on Tuesdays, etc. The time to consider these issues are before you book...rather then be upset when you later discover that you will not be able to see certain places that are high on your personal list.

 

For those looking to rent a car also consider that a majority of European rental car agencies are closed on Sundays and Holidays.

 

Hank

[buggins0402]

Another idea might be a gulet cruise for the Croatia portion (obviously not Zagreb) and spend some time in Italy prior to starting the Gulet cruise. These are very informal small boats that spend a great deal of time in port, including evenings...allowing you to have dinner ashore. Croatia geographically is somewhat like Chile, it's a long way down to Dubrovnik, so you will spend a good deal of daylight time getting from point A to B if driving. Note...never tried a gulet cruise myself, but have looked at them and they are on the bucket list.

Edited December 27, 2014 by buggins0402

[GottaKnowWhen]

JB raises an excellent point about European cruises (or any cruise). Before you book, take a good look at the details of the itinerary. Shortened port times are not a good thing on any cruise, but especially bad in Europe where ultimate destinations can often be more then an hour from a port. Also look carefully at where a cruise will be on Sundays and Mondays (almost like Sunday in many parts of Italy). I could fill a page in a book with cruisers we have met who were disappointed to find that the Vatican Museums (Sistine Chapel) is not open on most Sundays, Topkapi Palace is closed on Tuesdays, etc. The time to consider these issues are before you book...rather then be upset when you later discover that you will not be able to see certain places that are high on your personal list.

 

For those looking to rent a car also consider that a majority of European rental car agencies are closed on Sundays and Holidays.

 

Hank

 

And of course it is not just car rental agencies that may be closed on holidays! There will be times and places where pretty much everything is on restricted hours if not closed all together. For example, many of my fellow North American travelers may be surprised to find that Scandinavia (and Europe?) consider the entire week before and the day after Easter to be a holiday period. The more tourist oriented and recreation venues which are likely to be open may well be mobbed with local visitors. Good research on local holiday customs can help to avoid a number of surprises. For example, last spring I was in Stockholm for a conference which ended on a Wednesday. We stayed through Saturday, then caught the train to Oslo. My Friday night hotel rate was approximately triple what it had been during the week - it seems that that Friday and the entire Palm Sunday weekend were locally significant and rooms were at a premium to say the least. My trip planning, such as it was, was constrained by the fact that my travel dates were set by the conference schedule and I did not do proper due diligence.

[Gail & Marty sailing away]

Try going to some of the TA sights on line and limit the time frame and where you want .

[herbanrenewal]

If you decide on land trips but don't feel comfortable driving, most of Europe has excellent intercity train travel. If you know what you want to do and where you want to go you can make reservations usually 60-90 days in advance of travel and get nicely discounted tickets on the national railroad websites for the countries you are visiting.

 

It's a lot cheaper than car rental, insurance, and especially gasoline in Europe plus less stress than driving on unfamiliar roads where you can't read the signs or signs may be lacking.

[wassup4565]

I agree with Frenchcanrican. Just got back from a dandy eastern Med cruise, a Mom and Daughter cruise for us. We stayed two nights in Venice before departing and two nights in Rome afterward. We not chicken-hearted, but the idea of driving around in different countries using different languages would not have appealed to us. Not to mention organizing hotels and meals every night. I'm not saying we couldn't have done it, but I'm very glad we didn't.

 

What we did do was plan our pre- and post-cruise time well, making sure we saw and did the things we wanted to. And we planned our port days equally carefully so we didn't waste time blundering around. (Rick Steeves' book was a great help). To be honest, after a day of exploring, walking and climbing around, we were very happy to come back to our pleasant cabin on the ship and order a lovely meal in the dining room at the end of each day.

 

Yes, there were places we might have liked more time. But we saw and did a lot. And you know what? If it's that important, you can always go back!

Edited December 29, 2014 by wassup4565

[Hlitner]

If you decide on land trips but don't feel comfortable driving, most of Europe has excellent intercity train travel. If you know what you want to do and where you want to go you can make reservations usually 60-90 days in advance of travel and get nicely discounted tickets on the national railroad websites for the countries you are visiting.

 

It's a lot cheaper than car rental, insurance, and especially gasoline in Europe plus less stress than driving on unfamiliar roads where you can't read the signs or signs may be lacking.

 

Going to be a contrarian because we think that train travel is vastly overrated in Europe. It is fine for those that want to go between major cities, but much of the best parts of Europe are outside the cities in areas where there is little to no convenient train travel. For example, try seeing Provence or Normandy on a train and you will miss most of these areas. In Italy, trains are fine to get to places like Florence, but are near worthless when you want to go to San Gimignano, Cole val d'Elsa, Volterrra, etc. I cannot imagine being anywhere within a hundred miles of L'Isle Sur La Sorgue (in Provence) on a Sunday and not spending a few hours in the market. But there are no trains (and no local buses) that will get you there. Les Baux is an amazing place to visit (near St Remy) but is not accessible by train. We could go on and on...but train travelers would have no idea since they would not know these places.

 

In Normandy, try visiting Omaha Beach on a train. Or even getting to Mont St Michael by train and you will find yourself in Pontorson (about 5 miles away) if you can even find a train to this town. Or you could easily take a train to Rennes, but then you have a 40 mile ride by bus to get to Mt St Michael. There are other places you can more easily access by a train-bus combination, but you will spend a day doing what could be done within a few hours by car.

 

In Italy, you might want to go to Positano....but you will not get very close by train. Our favorite place to stay on the Amalfi Coast (Praiano) is more then an hour from the nearest train station. And then there are counties like Croatia and Montenego that cannot easily be explored by train unless one is willing to settle for a few cities.

 

When we first started traveling in Europe (about forty years ago) we were happy to move from city to city. But then we discovered that there is an awful lot of Europe (in fact...most of Europe) that is not in the major cities :) Our friends ask us how we can keep going back to Europe and not be bored with the same places...and we answer that we do not usually go to the same places. Once you get off the train lines, there is an entire continent of fascinating places.

 

 

Hank

[maryann ns]

I totally agree with Hank. The driving is easy in Europe (really!) and you can go where you want.

[cruisemom42]

The poster who suggested train travel is correct in that trains are a very good way to get from major point to major point. A good many travelers -- if not Hank -- prefer to stay in a larger place and then make day trips. This is often feasible by bus. (For example, Positano is perfectly easy to get to from Sorrento by bus.) It doesn't matter to me if it takes a little longer. Speed isn't of the essence on those sorts of trips.

 

Not everyone likes to drive. I enjoy looking at scenery and people watching -- both of which can be easily done when using public transportation. And it can't be done when I am the sole driver and navigator!

 

When I stayed in Sorrento for two weeks, a friend was willing to rent a car and try driving a couple of days. I was a ball of nerves by the end of each day after worrying over navigation, dealing with traffic, narrow unmarked streets, and impatient Italian drivers. I can only imagine how the actual driver felt!

[navybankerteacher]

I totally agree with Hank. The driving is easy in Europe (really!) and you can go where you want.

 

He's right on. Trains only get you from one city center to another - then you need local taxis to get away from the central station area - which is usually not the best part of town for a visitor. Of course, driving around in Rome or Paris is not for the outsider, but aside from a few cities, driving is the only way to see so much of Europe.

[buggins0402]

He's right on. Trains only get you from one city center to another - then you need local taxis to get away from the central station area - which is usually not the best part of town for a visitor. Of course, driving around in Rome or Paris is not for the outsider, but aside from a few cities, driving is the only way to see so much of Europe.

 

For us it depends on our land itinerary whether we go train or car. I agree with Hank there are some areas that are near impossible without a car. But, if the itinerary is say a Prague, Vienna, Budapest type trip the car would be an anchor in the major cities, with parking costs and availability. Germany and Switzerland have great rail systems, that can take you most places.

 

For a day in port in Europe, generally we give the car a pass. - because we can't drive manuals (on hilly terrain) and even if you reserve you might find when you get to the rental office there is no automatic available. Also, my time management skills are horrible in a car, there is always one more site or village to see....no problem rolling into a hotel late...but a ship does not wait.

 

As to driving in Croatia, have they finished the highway from Split to Dubrovnik?I'm of Croatian descent like OP, so a few years back I looked into a driving Croatia trip, gave up. Between ferries, drop off charges, auto trans costs and a very slow route down to Dubrovnik..decided to just do a cruise that hits Dubrovnik and wait to do a small boat cruise along the coast that hits a number of towns.

[wassup4565]

The poster who suggested train travel is correct in that trains are a very good way to get from major point to major point. A good many travelers -- if not Hank -- prefer to stay in a larger place and then make day trips. This is often feasible by bus. (For example, Positano is perfectly easy to get to from Sorrento by bus.) It doesn't matter to me if it takes a little longer. Speed isn't of the essence on those sorts of trips.

 

Not everyone likes to drive. I enjoy looking at scenery and people watching -- both of which can be easily done when using public transportation. And it can't be done when I am the sole driver and navigator!

 

When I stayed in Sorrento for two weeks, a friend was willing to rent a car and try driving a couple of days. I was a ball of nerves by the end of each day after worrying over navigation, dealing with traffic, narrow unmarked streets, and impatient Italian drivers. I can only imagine how the actual driver felt!

You make a couple of very good points here. First, if you are driving and your companion is (possibly) navigating, how is either of you going to enjoy the sights out the window?

 

Second, the moment I saw the taxi driver's girlfriend (he said she was his associate) in Rome wave her leg out the car window at a passing motorcyclist, was the moment I knew I was not qualified to drive there. These people do not drive like we do. I don't care what popcorn box you got your international driver's licence out of. You have no clue how to drive in Italy, So don't.

[Hlitner]

The poster who suggested train travel is correct in that trains are a very good way to get from major point to major point. A good many travelers -- if not Hank -- prefer to stay in a larger place and then make day trips. This is often feasible by bus. (For example, Positano is perfectly easy to get to from Sorrento by bus.) It doesn't matter to me if it takes a little longer. Speed isn't of the essence on those sorts of trips.

 

Not everyone likes to drive. I enjoy looking at scenery and people watching -- both of which can be easily done when using public transportation. And it can't be done when I am the sole driver and navigator!

 

When I stayed in Sorrento for two weeks, a friend was willing to rent a car and try driving a couple of days. I was a ball of nerves by the end of each day after worrying over navigation, dealing with traffic, narrow unmarked streets, and impatient Italian drivers. I can only imagine how the actual driver felt!

 

Ok, we are going to work with you example and present an alternative (that we have personally used for 2 one-week vacations. Sorrento is a thriving town very popular with groups tours because of the availability of many lower priced hotels. But if one is staying in Sorrento and wants to enjoy a nice dinner in Positano they must deal with oft crowded SITA buses that only run about once an hour. You then must sit on that bus for more then 30 min each way. If you want to go to Ravello for a nice dinner (with a fantastic view) you are not going to be able to do this from Sorrento (unless you have a car and want to do a very long night drive).

 

But, let us say you have a car and decide to stay in a nice small village such as Praiano (about 5 miles on the Amalfi side of Positano). In Praiano we can stay in a small hotel (or B&B) with free parking. If we want to venture into Positano we can either drive, or just use the small regional Orange Buses that run quite frequently. If we want to have dinner in Ravello we would simply drive there in about 20 min. Or, we could have dinner in Amalfi. If we decide it would be a good day to explore Paestum, we simply jump in our car and drive to Paestum and perhaps later stop at Salerno (or even Ravello) for a late afternoon snack. The options are endless, little to no wasted time trying to deal with bus schedules, etc. This kind of personal freedom may not suit all travelers, but some of us love being able to do what we want when we want.

 

And while we are on the subject of the "Amalfi Drive" it is actually a relatively easy road to drive when compared to many other Italian roads. When you are in a bus going around the curves it can look very scary as you glance over the walls down the cliffs. But in a car those walls (and barricades) are at a much lower angle and the road seems quite tame. Our major problem with driving in this region is trying to park a car in (or near) Positano....which is why we sometimes use the local Orange buses. Parking at Ravello, Amalfi, and even in Sorrento is not much of a problem.

 

Hank

Edited December 30, 2014 by Hlitner

[cruisemom42]

Ok, we are going to work with you example and present an alternative (that we have personally used for 2 one-week vacations. Sorrento is a thriving town very popular with groups tours because of the availability of many lower priced hotels. But if one is staying in Sorrento and wants to enjoy a nice dinner in Positano they must deal with oft crowded SITA buses that only run about once an hour. You then must sit on that bus for more then 30 min each way. If you want to go to Ravello for a nice dinner (with a fantastic view) you are not going to be able to do this from Sorrento (unless you have a car and want to do a very long night drive).

 

But, let us say you have a car and decide to stay in a nice small village such as Praiano (about 5 miles on the Amalfi side of Positano). In Praiano we can stay in a small hotel (or B&B) with free parking. If we want to venture into Positano we can either drive, or just use the small regional Orange Buses that run quite frequently. If we want to have dinner in Ravello we would simply drive there in about 20 min. Or, we could have dinner in Amalfi. If we decide it would be a good day to explore Paestum, we simply jump in our car and drive to Paestum and perhaps later stop at Salerno (or even Ravello) for a late afternoon snack. The options are endless, little to no wasted time trying to deal with bus schedules, etc. This kind of personal freedom may not suit all travelers, but some of us love being able to do what we want when we want.

 

And while we are on the subject of the "Amalfi Drive" it is actually a relatively easy road to drive when compared to many other Italian roads. When you are in a bus going around the curves it can look very scary as you glance over the walls down the cliffs. But in a car those walls (and barricades) are at a much lower angle and the road seems quite tame. Our major problem with driving in this region is trying to park a car in (or near) Positano....which is why we sometimes use the local Orange buses. Parking at Ravello, Amalfi, and even in Sorrento is not much of a problem.

 

Hank

 

But I think you missed my point entirely (??) about not liking to drive and also about the fact that we did drive for 3 days out of the 10 (including to Paestum) or so and it was NOT fun.

 

Public transportation met our needs very well for the remainder of the days. We chose Sorrento because it was quite easy from there to reach places like Pompeii, Herculaneum, Capri, Naples, Castellamare di Stabia, etc. via train (and metro in Naples). Sorrento is not a favorite of mine, but it was a good central location for this visit.

 

The last few days we stayed at Pozzuoli and thought we needed the car to get to Baia, Cuma, and around Pozzuoli. Driving was a nightmare. And this was in early April, long before the crowds of the "season"....

 

When I returned to Naples this February for two weeks, I was able to figure out how to use the trains and buses to return to most of these places near Pozzuoli (which I really liked as a place to stay) as well as getting to Capua to see the amphitheater where Spartacus fought.

Edited December 30, 2014 by cruisemom42