Just want free time in St. Petersburg, don't want a visa

[Wehwalt]

OK, I'm on the Ocean Princess in September. I've seen St. Petersburg (1986 and 2014) and just will want maximum free time. I'm aware I can get an invitation from a hotel and a visa and all that, I've been to Moscow. I have a fair amount how much a visa and a hotel night would be and am exploring other options.

 

What's the bet way to do this? Take a short Princess tour and wander off? The immigration staff doesn't seem to care when you come back to the ship, it's the going out that they check stuff. Or find an accommodating travel agency?

 

I'm aware I can probably find tours for stuff I haven't seen yet, but it's not what I want to do. I delight in just walking the streets, seeing the people, being as inconspicuous as a foreign tourist can be.

Edited January 22, 2015 by Wehwalt

[Giantfan13]

Since you have been to St Petersburg twice, you should know that what you are wanting to do is basically impossible, and illegal.

 

Well, I shouldn't say impossible, as you can do it if you want, but if you do get caught, forget the rest of your cruise and be prepared for much trouble.

 

First, the ship would know you are not on as you haven't swiped your ships card to come back on board. They could alert the authorities, or could just ignore it.

 

What you are really saying is you want to sneak into another country, Russia, wander about just because you want to, and then just return to your ship, if you don't get caught.

 

Why don't you just opt for the visa and then you can do what you want.

 

Anyway, if that is your plan, send me your address in Siberia, and I'll send you a Christmas Card. LOL :D:D:D:D

 

Cheers

 

Len

[Ashland]

Best to follow the rules when visiting another country...even when you think they shouldn't apply to "you".

[Wehwalt]

Best to follow the rules when visiting another country...even when you think they shouldn't apply to "you".

 

I'm sorry, I may not have made it clear. I am looking for a way WITHIN the rules. Thus, I've contacted the tour group I used next year. None of us have read the rules exhaustively, they have. I've also called upon the collective experience of cruisers, and I hoped for better than a lecture.

[John Bull]

.............What's the best way to do this? Take a short Princess tour and wander off? The immigration staff doesn't seem to care when you come back to the ship, it's the going out that they check stuff.

 

I'm sorry, I may not have made it clear. I am looking for a way WITHIN the rules.

 

That though clearly isn't within the rules.

And because the guide will keep an eye on numbers you are likely to

a) hold up the tour group while the guide waits / hunts for you,

b) risk the guide's licence if your absence is noticed by the authorities.

c) since the guide is required to advise the authorities of any missing participants, either the guide risks a further infringement by keeping schtum or your absence will be reported. Either way, its a problem for the guide.

d) If you return to the dock other than within an authorised group its possible that you may be asked to show your visa at the dock gate.

 

You know that a visa is pricey if you're American, and that the application is fraught. But that's the way to do it if you want complete autonomy. Folk on this forum have done so without difficulty, their advice is on this board if you search for it.

 

You're right that the tour operators know the visa-free rules better than anyone on this forum. And from what I've seen, different operators push the limits further than others. Yes, folk have spent time - in some cases for hours - wandering by themselves with the guide's blessing, before being collected or returning to the group.

That ain't going to happen with a ship's bus tour, but I suggest you ask different local operators for suggestions & choose the one which provides you with the most freedom. This of course will be by e-mail, & you'll have their OK in writing. That way you get as close as possible to your wishes, you don't drop yourself in the manure, and if the tour operator has exceeded the limits it's their fault & their problem. So you can send them a Christmas card in Siberia with a clear conscience :)

 

I can understand your wanting to push the envelope on your third visit, but you need to rely on the locals' advice, not ours. ;)

 

JB :)

Edited January 23, 2015 by John Bull

[Reggiefan]

Wehwalt, I would think the two options are (1) get a visa or (2) hire a tour guide to accompany you during your time ashore.

 

When we were in SPB last year, I felt a bit of discomfort when persons in our group, after being dropped off at the ship by the tour guide, crossed the street to visit on their own some shops.

 

This is not a good time for people from North America and much of Europe--and certainly for Americans--to test the tolerance of Russian officials with visiting their country illegally.

[Kryssa]

This is our first time visiting SPB and we have two overnights on our itinerary. We booked a 3-day private tour and then we are paying extra to have the evenings for "free time." We are going to eat and drink and shop and explore. I'm guessing the tour guide will just go along with us.

 

We looked into getting visas but the cost for the chaperone is actually much less. I think we are paying $30 per person for 3 hours and $5 an hour for any additional time beyond that. So even if we are out 7pm-midnight both nights, it will be $80 additional and the visa would be about $200.

[id4elizabeth]

Krystal - we were looking for a guide who would take us to some churches and explain Russian Orthodoxy. We don't mind being with the guide the whole time, unlike the original poster. Would you share with us who you got as a tour company?

[gkkapp]

id4elizabeth-

 

What about Tours By Locals: toursbylocals.com Local guides who say they can design a tour for you or there may be one already advertised that fits. Don't know if they can get the visa for you but it won't hurt to ask. Many of them have ties to larger tour companies, I think, so they get the visa through the larger company.

 

Just an idea.

 

<<<Karen>>>

[id4elizabeth]

Thanks for the tip gkknapp - I've sent off a request to one of their guides and we'll see what we get back. Thanks again!

[gkkapp]

Let me know how it turns out :D. Have been to St Pete twice and it is WONDERFUL. I have a small collection of Russian Orthodox icons. Hard to purchase in Russia but easy to get in Tallinn, Estonia. If you are interested I can post several places in Tallinn.

 

<<<Karen>>>

[kiwimum]

We were on the Royal last year for her stop in SPB. One of the tours we did thru Princess was Hermitage and time on your own. We had around 3.5 hours on our own roaming around SPB. We visited several churches, canals, found free wifi, did some geocaching, lunch at a restaurant of our choice, visited with locals before meeting up for transport back to the ship. Would definitely do this tour again. I think the cost was around $90 each.

Edited January 27, 2015 by kiwimum

[Kryssa]

Krystal - we were looking for a guide who would take us to some churches and explain Russian Orthodoxy. We don't mind being with the guide the whole time, unlike the original poster. Would you share with us who you got as a tour company?

 

We are using Alla Tours. The "free time" option was called something like the "Your Tour Your Way" tour. They have been an absolute pleasure to communicate with. They have their own messaging system on their website. Just send an email and they'll get you set up.

[dogs4fun]

OK, I'm on the Ocean Princess in September. I've seen St. Petersburg (1986 and 2014) and just will want maximum free time. I'm aware I can get an invitation from a hotel and a visa and all that, I've been to Moscow. I have a fair amount how much a visa and a hotel night would be and am exploring other options.

 

What's the bet way to do this? Take a short Princess tour and wander off? The immigration staff doesn't seem to care when you come back to the ship, it's the going out that they check stuff. Or find an accommodating travel agency?

 

I'm aware I can probably find tours for stuff I haven't seen yet, but it's not what I want to do. I delight in just walking the streets, seeing the people, being as inconspicuous as a foreign tourist can be.

 

Just a thought ...

I believe that there is also an option to hire only a driver through Alla Tours (no guide) and they provide you with the visa waiver. (I am not sure exactly how this works, so it's best to check with the tour operator).

That way, you would be totally "legal" and be able to go were you want. :)

[cruiselen]

When we visited St. Petersburg three years ago we did a lot of walking around the city off the beaten path with our guide. We were using Palladium Travel and had asked them to allow for sufficient free time. They were in fact quite flexible and we could change our itinerary on site.

[parmen123]

We were on the Royal last year for her stop in SPB. One of the tours we did thru Princess was Hermitage and time on your own. We had around 3.5 hours on our own roaming around SPB. We visited several churches, canals, found free wifi, did some geocaching, lunch at a restaurant of our choice, visited with locals before meeting up for transport back to the ship. Would definitely do this tour again. I think the cost was around $90 each.

 

 

Would like the name or how to contact them

[Giantfan13]

Just to be sure here. If that's what you want, a guide who will basically just tag along while you roam the streets of St Petersburg, you are basically talking about a private tour. While many have done this, be aware that it is expensive compared to a regular tour, and not every company may offer something like this.

 

Again, it will be pricy.

 

Cheers

 

Len

[spbstan]

For the last 5 years Baltic Travel, the port contractor for Norwegian CL has had a tour where 1/2 the day is free time. Dropping people at Arts Square with instructions to meet up again in 3-4 hours. It was assumed by reading the immigration laws that it was not legal but ferry passengers get that option for 3 full days and staying in hotels.

Last year one small company offer such a 1 day program for less than $100, this year 6-7 are doing the same. One has free time for lunch where one can decide what they want to do, explore, grab a quick Blini or a formal 4 course meal in the 90 minutes allowed. Another one is offering a evening 4 hour "tour" of shopping, dining or just pub crawling for $50.

You have to be under the supervision of an authorized tour operator and what they consider supervision varies a lot. One smaller company has not only low cost free time but supplied pre-programmed cell phones to ask questions or directions from their "supervising representative". Even the larger companies push so often here on the forum are following that lead. Another is offering a $79 cruise party at night that includes a free bar included in the price.

So it is a mistake to assume what everyone keeps repeating is all you have a choice from.

For Americans, who might someday have the desire or opportunity to return, they should consider the visa. The 3 year multiple re-entry visa is easy to get, the same price as a 72 hour transit visa and requires less paperwork than a 30 day tourist visa. It allows up to 6 months in-country before needing to exit and either leave or come back the same day after getting a new Migration card at the border and new entry stamp, starting the 6 month clock all over again. For avid travelers, who are in Europe or UK often, popping over to St Petersburg for a long weekend of ballet or fun becomes really feasible without prior planning.

[John Bull]

For the last 5 years Baltic Travel, the port contractor for Norwegian CL has had a tour where 1/2 the day is free time. Dropping people at Arts Square with instructions to meet up again in 3-4 hours. It was assumed by reading the immigration laws that it was not legal but ferry passengers get that option for 3 full days and staying in hotels.

Last year one small company offer such a 1 day program for less than $100, this year 6-7 are doing the same. One has free time for lunch where one can decide what they want to do, explore, grab a quick Blini or a formal 4 course meal in the 90 minutes allowed. Another one is offering a evening 4 hour "tour" of shopping, dining or just pub crawling for $50.

You have to be under the supervision of an authorized tour operator and what they consider supervision varies a lot. One smaller company has not only low cost free time but supplied pre-programmed cell phones to ask questions or directions from their "supervising representative". Even the larger companies push so often here on the forum are following that lead. Another is offering a $79 cruise party at night that includes a free bar included in the price.

So it is a mistake to assume what everyone keeps repeating is all you have a choice from.

For Americans, who might someday have the desire or opportunity to return, they should consider the visa. The 3 year multiple re-entry visa is easy to get, the same price as a 72 hour transit visa and requires less paperwork than a 30 day tourist visa. It allows up to 6 months in-country before needing to exit and either leave or come back the same day after getting a new Migration card at the border and new entry stamp, starting the 6 month clock all over again. For avid travelers, who are in Europe or UK often, popping over to St Petersburg for a long weekend of ballet or fun becomes really feasible without prior planning.

 

Just to clear up a couple of points, Stan.

 

Folk on this forum don't "push" tour operators that they have used, that's an inaccurate & perhaps even offensive word to use. :mad:

We recommend tour operators if we've been pleased with the service that we've been given. And the fact is that the overwhelming majority of cruisers have been very very pleased with the tours that they've taken in SPB, whichever tour operator they used.

You do a dis-service to your countrymen by denigrating any that have grown - they all started small & they've grown for a reason, customer satisfaction.

A high proportion of operators started as guides working for an operator, then chose to start up their own business. Good for them, it's what the free economy is all about.

And yes, when one operator hits on a good new idea, the others will copy. So everyone benefits.

You will see names like Alla, SPB, TJ, DenRus etc far more often than Anastasia on this forum because they are larger organisations. We can only recommend operators we've used, so if ten times as many have used Alla than Anastasia then it follows that Alla will get ten times as many recommendations.

Be pleased for them all, both big & small, that they all attract positive feedback. I only wish that the same applied to tour operators elsewhere in the world.

 

On the matter of visas, I cannot agree with you about how easy it is to arrange Russian visas. You just need to read various threads here & on TripAdvisor about how difficult many people (OK, not everyone) have found it, including some having to go to an embassy & often more than once because of some footling little error, and all the palarva of an "invitation".

If I chose to buy a visa, Russia is one of the very few countries in the world where I'd use a visa agency - which of course adds to the cost.

Visas for Americans costs a minimum of $160 - that's over half the cost of a two day tour!!

And although the visa is much cheaper for Brits, we now have to have our finger-prints taken for a visa application - that involves travelling to one of just two visa centres in the UK. The travel cost, time & grief now make a visa even more fraught for Brits than for Americans.

 

If I want to tour in Russia, I will need a visa so I will have to go through the hoops. Sadly I won't bother - there's a whole continent of other places for us Europeans to visit without all that visa grief.

But the visa-free dispensation for cruisers who are under the auspices of an accredited guide for their one/two/three day port-of-call visits to St Petersburg make the choice a no-brainer for Americans, Brits & most other cruisers. It's no surprise that few cruisers, other than those who have visited before or already have visas, choose to get a visa & do their own thing.

I bow to your local knowledge - but it's the visitors who know more about the costs & difficulties of obtaining visas than the locals.

 

Can't comment on prices. I know that Anastasia's prices & offerings were in line with others when we researched for our visit about three years ago, but no doubt things have changed due to the big fall in the value of the rouble.

 

JB :)

[spbstan]

I do not post out of ignorance of the situation, in fact no one has come up with data to show an error. You assume way too much, I am not Russian but know the details of immigration law and the industry like no other foreigner in St Petersburg. Yes, these companies are pushed, every time someone asks an innocent question the same few people fall all over themselves trying to persuade the newcomer to use their particular company. Some apparently are being paid to do it according to ex-employees of at least one.

 

I caught several of them spamming Trip Advisor with fake accounts which brought threats of violence. Just one example of that tactic pushed one of them to #1 one attraction in St Petersburg ahead of Hermitage or Russian Museum....all before she had an office and before even one client. I was an advocate for tightening up the user reviews to make them less easy to abuse and they did.

It is not just tour operators doing it, but small hotels and restaurants also and I call them out equally. With hundreds of past ports many have visited, why so much daily posting about just one port, and nearly every post trying to influence others to use one company? You will have to admit it looks pretty suspicious. Check the posting history of some and you will see an interesting pattern. Read the other port referrals and you do not see the same people constantly promoting the same companies, they talk about the cruise, the city or tours, not the companies they bought from 5-6 years ago. The private forums for destination experts on the biggest forum discusses this often, how easy it is to spot the fake accounts since the posts are about things normal visitors would not care much about, and how devoid they are of normal traveler comments about the destination rather than the agent or office internal affairs of some service provider. Look at the posts objectively. There is a clear line between the people who post about their activities and photos, and those who post almost entirely about getting others to do business with one company. One of your favorites posted so many fake reviews and comments by "customers" on Trip Advisor that is was laughable that every posting, regardless of the name attached focused on how nice the owner was and about internal office flattery and nothing about the tour, what "they" did or what their impressions were about their trip, all in exactly the same paragraph structure and work usage and a link to the office in the 3rd paragraph, followed by another short paragraph of another glowing compliments to the owner. That was why you have heard of that company, not because of superior performance. You do not even know who the owners are of the forum promoted companies. One is owned by a large well known, infamous in fact, Russian government owned gigantic corporation. One that your government would not want you doing business with. You think it owned by a hard working small ($5,000,000/month) business owner.

 

Regarding visas. You will notice I wrote specifically if they were American citizens, the process of getting the liberal 3 year multiple entry visa is easier than ever and the same cost as a 72 hour transit visa. Where am I wrong there? Sure it is expensive because Russians are charged the same. Countries that have liberalized visas for Russians have gotten immediate benefits like dropping visa requirements entirely. And, yes, it is relatively easy to get a Russian visa compared to many countries and few if any are turned down, while most Russian's applying for some countries are turned down and their high visa application fees lost. Having to take days off work to travel 4,000 miles to apply and then return for an interview, and be turned down is not hassle? But a foreigner who is complaining about having to fill out a form is a hassle? Fill out one on-line form, print a copy, and print a copy of the invitation, send passport and photo plus payment and get your passport back in a week to 10 days. Not sure where the problem is so difficult that it can't be done?

All is not as it seems.... At one time, one of them admitted that every mention on Cruise Critic, represented $50,000 in additional sales. There is a lot of incentive to cheat. Now it is probably not as profitable since so many are pushing the same couple companies out of the 130 who are conducting tours without complaints. If people just talked about their activities and impressions, like normal visitor reports, none of this would be an issue.

[dogs4fun]

Just to clear up a couple of points, Stan.

 

Folk on this forum don't "push" tour operators that they have used, that's an inaccurate & perhaps even offensive word to use. :mad:

We recommend tour operators if we've been pleased with the service that we've been given. And the fact is that the overwhelming majority of cruisers have been very very pleased with the tours that they've taken in SPB, whichever tour operator they used.

You do a dis-service to your countrymen by denigrating any that have grown - they all started small & they've grown for a reason, customer satisfaction.

A high proportion of operators started as guides working for an operator, then chose to start up their own business. Good for them, it's what the free economy is all about.

And yes, when one operator hits on a good new idea, the others will copy. So everyone benefits.

You will see names like Alla, SPB, TJ, DenRus etc far more often than Anastasia on this forum because they are larger organisations. We can only recommend operators we've used, so if ten times as many have used Alla than Anastasia then it follows that Alla will get ten times as many recommendations.

Be pleased for them all, both big & small, that they all attract positive feedback. I only wish that the same applied to tour operators elsewhere in the world.

 

On the matter of visas, I cannot agree with you about how easy it is to arrange Russian visas. You just need to read various threads here & on TripAdvisor about how difficult many people (OK, not everyone) have found it, including some having to go to an embassy & often more than once because of some footling little error, and all the palarva of an "invitation".

If I chose to buy a visa, Russia is one of the very few countries in the world where I'd use a visa agency - which of course adds to the cost.

Visas for Americans costs a minimum of $160 - that's over half the cost of a two day tour!!

And although the visa is much cheaper for Brits, we now have to have our finger-prints taken for a visa application - that involves travelling to one of just two visa centres in the UK. The travel cost, time & grief now make a visa even more fraught for Brits than for Americans.

 

If I want to tour in Russia, I will need a visa so I will have to go through the hoops. Sadly I won't bother - there's a whole continent of other places for us Europeans to visit without all that visa grief.

But the visa-free dispensation for cruisers who are under the auspices of an accredited guide for their one/two/three day port-of-call visits to St Petersburg make the choice a no-brainer for Americans, Brits & most other cruisers. It's no surprise that few cruisers, other than those who have visited before or already have visas, choose to get a visa & do their own thing.

I bow to your local knowledge - but it's the visitors who know more about the costs & difficulties of obtaining visas than the locals.

 

Can't comment on prices. I know that Anastasia's prices & offerings were in line with others when we researched for our visit about three years ago, but no doubt things have changed due to the big fall in the value of the rouble.

 

JB :)

 

Very well said, JB!

 

My personal visa experience: I do have a 3 year Russian visa. I do not live near one of the five Russian consulates in the US so I used the mail option through the visa service. Total cost for my visa (including shipping costs) was about $320. This is more than the cost of a 2 day tour.

Also the Russian visa application is lengthy and, in some areas, directions are either unclear or not present at all. Of all the visa applications I've completed, the Russian visa application was the most frustrating.

I applaud independent minded travelers that love to DIY. I loved exploring Russian on my own but I was there for a month, not just 2 or 3 days.

Cost wise, if you are visiting St. Petersburg on a short port stay, unless you have access to a Russian consulate near you, it makes more sense to book with one of the very well regarded private tour companies.

Edited March 16, 2015 by dogs4fun

[John Bull]

Hi Stan,

 

My, you're like a dog with a bone - you simply don't want to accept that there are good honest folk on this forum who recommend the operator they have used simply because they were very happy with the service they received.

That's not the same as "pushing" an operator, it's passing on their own experiences in response to questions - a cornerstone of Cruise Critic, TripAdvisor & other forums.

 

You complain that there are those who have posted on just one port or one subject, and who tend to promote just one company.

Yes, of course there are "planted" comments & reviews like that on forums, particularly TripAdvisor because it's so big, but as you say they are pretty easy to spot. One reason why on both CC & T/A it's easy to see members' post-count, & to read their past posts.

You should follow your own advice & check the posting histories of those that you accuse of "pushing" an operator, you will see that they have long posting histories on diverse places & subjects.

You owe them an apology.

I rarely visit T/A, but I'll wager there are NO "planted" posts in recent years on this forum.

 

Yes, I know about reciprocity. That's why Canadians pay more for Turkish visas, why Americans pay more for Brazilian visas, why Americans pay more for Russian visas. And mebbe why Brits now need biometrics for a Russian visa.

I'm not apportioning blame, merely explaining why I'm unlikely to visit Russia other than on a cruise.

Whether it's easier for me to get a Russian visa than it is for a Russian to get a UK visa, & whether that's the fault of the Russian or UK govt. is all irrelevant to me.

It means me wasting a day and a wad of cash travelling to London, and that's what matters to me.

 

I'm quite happy to accept your word that it's easier than it used to be for Americans to get a 3-year visa.

But I'll counter that it's also easier to get to the moon than it used to be. ;)

"Easier" isn't the same as "easy".

As Dogs4Fun knows.

And how many Americans who cruise to St Petersburg are likely to visit Russia again in the following three years? One per-cent? Two?

So, to repeat, for the vast majority of US & other cruisers life is simpler, cheaper, and better by using an accredited tour operator - or even a ship's tour - rather than getting a visa.

 

JB :)

[Carolla5501]

There might not be pushing agencies. But there's definitely a push to force people to use an agency instead of trying it on their own

Edited March 16, 2015 by Carolla5501

[Got2Cruise]

There might not be pushing agencies. But there's definitely a push to force people to use an agency instead of trying it on their own

 

 

Did you not read what Dogs wrote? The cost for a VISA is practically the same cost as a 2-day tour. Pointing out that a tour is almost the same cost as going on your own is not forcing anyone. If you want to go out on your own who is stopping you?

[Giantfan13]

There might not be pushing agencies. But there's definitely a push to force people to use an agency instead of trying it on their own

 

Please tell me how recommending one use a tour company because people feel it a better way to see St Petersburg is FORCING people to do just that?

 

And no one PUSHES companies. We all recommend the company we used because we all had a great time using that particular company. You NEVER see any posts knocking any of the tour companies or saying one is better than the other. Just doesn't happen here.

No one PUSHES anything and for sure no one FORCES anyone to use any particular company.

You come here for advice and that's exactly what you get. You have to make your own decision. If no one wanted advice, they wouldn't ask any questions. We give opinions on how we feel is the best way to see St Petersburg. That comes from experience of being there and doing that.

 

Please enlighten me as to how people are FORCED to do something?

 

Cheers

 

Len

Edited March 17, 2015 by Giantfan13