Proof of 18% gratuity on specialty restaurants

[Solararc]

Looking forward to proper information rather than speculation.

 

 

*Living large one week at a time*

[bambione]

March 2014 We went on our first NCL Getaway cruise. My husband and I ate at Cagneys one night. I just assumed that the DSC did not cover the gratuity, so just automatically tipped like we would normally do at a restaurant. We are going again on the Getaway Jan 2016 and will probably eat one meal at a specialty restaurant. Now NCL is saying that we need to tip, which we assumed previously we were supposed to do anyway. One poster mentioned that people are upset at being told what exactly to tip, I have to agree there. I don't like being told specifically that I have to tip 18%. Will I still eat at a specialty restaurant? Yes I will. Will I pay attention to whether or not I get good service? Yes I will. If I get less than average service I will just go to Guest Services and complain and ask for my money back. I'm not particularly concerned about how DSC is divided up among restaurant staff, or if it is double dipping or not. I just want to decide how much to tip at specialty restaurants. What is odd is I don't really care if a 18% tip is added on to my bar bill, but I want to decide how much on my restaurant bill.

[rochelle_s]

 

What NCL is saying is that $48 was too little, and I can buy that. It is probably safe to say that what they are charging now, $74, is a little bit more than they absolutely need, which will allow them to stay ahead of costs before they have to raise prices again.

 

Yes, this is a very trusting, naive way of looking at things. Which is balanced out by the cynical, suspicious attitude expressed elsewhere. The truth is somewhere between the two.

 

I am probably one of those folks you might think is cynical and suspicious and I really don't mean to be.

 

I do like how you broke it down to basic math. Three weeks ago they were collecting $48 per day from that family of four who dine in a specialty restaurant at night. Now before we reach the end of the month it will cost that same family $74. That is a $26 per day increase for this family.

 

The problem with your trusting of this increase is that NONE of that money can legally be used by NCL to keep their costs down. All that money collected is supposed to be used for the compensation of the crew. The website used to state that some of the money is used for a welfare fund for the crew members but I did not see that there today. When daily service charges and automatic gratuities are set up they are not considered income of the cruise line. The companies actually save money by paying the crew this way. There are numerous benefits for the corporation and you can be sure that NCL is utilizing all of them to their best advantage. Putting these funds into their own pockets should not be one of them. If the company needs more money to cover their costs then they should increase the base fare.

 

So all these increases are coming from funds that are supposed to be directed towards the crew. So that family of four who were paying $48 per day and are now paying $26 more a day means that the crew should now be making 50% more than they were three weeks ago. Do you really believe that is happening? Does anyone?

 

As I said in the other thread my opinion is that all these increases have been put in place in order in order to maintain the level of the DSC. With all the promotional giveaways, the DSC and the bartender tip pools have to be taking a hit. Just think every suite or Haven couple who has booked in the last couple of months will board the ship and can drink as much as they like, eat wherever they like and have their cabin serviced two or more times a day by their steward. At the end of the week they will have contributed zero dollars to the DSC or the bar tip pool out of pocket (they very well may tip above and beyond but that is another discussion). We are told the DSC, the bar tips and now the 18% gratuity in specialty restaurants are included in the promotion. So that couple ate in a specialty every night and over the course of the week drank $300 worth of beverages each. This would mean that more than $350 should be going towards the DSC and the bar servers tip pools. Where is that money coming from? Do you believe this is coming out of the companies pocket and into the pools? That is just one suite couple. Now multiply by every suite or Haven booked under this ongoing promotion. Add in every UDP or UBP chosen from mini-suite on down. Those are an awful lot of gratuities that need to be paid and they have to come from somewhere.

 

Suspicious? Maybe. But I also think it is very realistic.

 

 

 

Rochelle

[Solararc]

You have certainly got me thinking Rochelle, you have raised a very good point of view, I am curious to read what Jan will come back with on this. Either way I will continue to cruise on NCL because I do believe in their vacation model, I really hope with the new top brass they don't try to change a business model that is very successful and even emulated by other lines and alienate the loyal consumers

 

 

*Living large one week at a time*

[rochelle_s]

If someone will pose this question in a clear concise manner and just state the facts you want to know about..I will be happy to get a correct answer for you..

Jancruz1

 

I was reading on another social media site about 18% being added to other things on the ship such as pizza delivery and Carlos Bake/Cake Shop items. I was searching the NCL site for an answer to this but so far have not come up with one. If you could see if this is true or not it would be appreciated.

 

Thanks so much

 

Rochelle

[TrumpyNor]

I must admit that I was a little "upset" at first, but now that I have gotten used to the "idea" I actually find it OK. My DH and I have been on 18 NCL cruises since 2003, we love great food and great service, and I can honestly say that especially in the last 4-5 years the quality on both food and service in the main dining rooms decreased little by little, so we were very happy to have the option to go to specialty restaurants. We didn't mind paying the service charge, and we usually "rounded up" the dinner-bill with between $5 and $15 (for 2 persons), depending on our "connection" with the waiter.

Because in our opinion, the quality of both the food AND the service in specialty restaurants have been much higher (local, smaller kitchens, more exclusive ingredients, better chefs, etc.). Regarding the service provided from the specialty wait staff, they are without a doubt the best waiters on board - and I know for a fact that if they make a very good impression in the main dining room, they might get promoted to special restaurant staff. And it is counted as a promotion because they usually receive much more tip when working in a specialty restaurant - even when they are "pooling" it. Working in a specialty restaurant is like working in a "normal" restaurant of "normal" size - and that is very different from working in ie one of the main dining rooms, that can seat 300-550 persons at the same time. Now that NCL have updated their MDR menus, and since I have read many great reviews on them lately, then I have no problem "going back" to MDR dinners. And if I come across a great waiter there, I will add some extra tip on my drink-bill, and also be certain to let the restaurant manager know that that particular waiter was great.

 

We have currently 3 different NCL cruises booked for the next 13 months, and we will continue to go to specialty restaurants, at least some of the evenings. We will just not add any extra tip on top of the 18% auto gratuity. Money wise it will not be much different than in the past (for us), only thing I don't like about it is to be told how much to tip. But we will not have a problem with it. Like I said, we always used to tip extra on every specialty restaurant. But I also know that many don't tip extra when they dine in a specialty restaurant on board - especially after NCL introduced the UDP. And as I stated earlier, working in a specialty restaurant has always been seen as a promotion for the wait staff. And if you as a specialty restaurant waiter don't receive any extra "benefits" like a larger portion of the DSC or if guests doesn't tip extra, then why "bother" with being the "best waiter"...? Just to feel good about them selves and take pride in their work? That doesn't pay the bills at home...

 

I actually believe that the reason for this new 18% auto gratuity in specialty restaurants, is the same as it was when most cruise lines (NCL included) started with the "automatically charged" daily service charge. Because when tipping was "voluntary" a large percentage of the passengers didn't tip anything at the end of the cruise - since they felt they had paid "enough" for the cruise itself. Not realizing that the main part of the "salary" for all crew members working in direct contact with the passengers (waiters, barstaff, room stewards, spa staff) is the tip (or service charge, as they call it today), they only have a small base salary from the cruise line - and they work 10-12 hours per day, seven days a week for 9 months (on NCL the regular contract for those positions on board is 9 months). Yes, I know that some of you then will ask why we (the passengers) should pay the crew salary. And I agree - we shouldn't. But unfortunately it is the same on every cruise line, so that is just the way it is.

 

Finally it is maybe proper to tell you that both my husband and I worked on cruise ships when we were younger - but it was on one of the high end, luxury lines. I just worked on board for a few months, but my husband worked as a waiter on board for 6 years. This was back in the 1990ies, and the cruise industry was not as "main stream" as it is now - and the tipping was good. I believe our background makes us understand the crew members side regarding tipping a little bit better, so we always make certain to tip extra to persons on board who has provided special service to us. We have NOT forgotten the hard life of a crew member even though we are now "on the other side of the fence"...

 

My final word will be that since we have always tipped extra in specialty restaurants, the new 18% auto gratuity doesn't mean much difference to us. But for those who are used to not tipping extra for "extra service", I totally get that the new auto gratuity will add up - especially for families or groups of more than 2 persons.

Edited March 21, 2015 by TrumpyNor

[GEORGET]

I am probably one of those folks you might think is cynical and suspicious and I really don't mean to be.

 

I do like how you broke it down to basic math. Three weeks ago they were collecting $48 per day from that family of four who dine in a specialty restaurant at night. Now before we reach the end of the month it will cost that same family $74. That is a $26 per day increase for this family.

. Just think every suite or Haven couple who has booked in the last couple of months will board the ship and can drink as much as they like, eat wherever they like and have their cabin serviced two or more times a day by their steward. At the end of the week they will have contributed zero dollars to the DSC or the bar tip pool out of pocket (they very well may tip above and beyond but that is another discussion). We are told the DSC, the bar tips and now the 18% gratuity in specialty restaurants are included in the promotion. So that couple ate in a specialty every night and over the course of the week drank $300 worth of beverages each. This would mean that more than $350 should be going towards the DSC and the bar servers tip pools. Where is that money coming from? Do you believe this is coming out of the companies pocket and into the pools? That is just one suite couple. Now multiply by every suite or Haven booked under this ongoing promotion. Add in every UDP or UBP chosen from mini-suite on down. Those are an awful lot of gratuities that need to be paid and they have to come from somewhere.

 

 

I see where you are coming from but remember how much more the Suites costs are, the offer is built into the inflated price. Please note UK suite guests have to pay $14 95 pp per day as offer of free DSC seems only to apply to the USA. ON top of that the Butler and Concierge will expect a large tip.

 

actually if the 18% is added to the UDP as an additional cost, like vat, it will save me money as i will no longer cash tip.

 

the latest offer of the above package Plus on selected cruises Friends and Family sail for Port Fee only.

they will of course have to pay the DSC and purchase any onboard package.

 

it is like a supermarket trick, increase the base price then put an offer/reduction on it so that when the offer has finished the new base price looks normal.

especially the drinks package.

 

Time that all tips/service charges/ gratuites are included in the base price.

this way the staff are paid the correct wage, they cannot be stiffed by having tips removed, new cruisers are not given an unexpected bill and it would be one less thing to moan about.

trouble is the USA has a tipping fobia (culture) that the rest of the World cannot understand.

But the corporate bodies do.

j

Edited March 21, 2015 by GEORGET

[jaja]

If someone will pose this question in a clear concise manner and just state the facts you want to know about..I will be happy to get a correct answer for you..

Jancruz1

 

It has also been asked a few times...now that suite DSC has increased at a higher proportion..does that now include the butler and concierge?

[hawkeyetlse]

So all these increases are coming from funds that are supposed to be directed towards the crew. So that family of four who were paying $48 per day and are now paying $26 more a day means that the crew should now be making 50% more than they were three weeks ago. Do you really believe that is happening? Does anyone?

This is assuming that the DSC is the only source of crew compensation (for the crew categories that are included in the DSC system), and I don't believe that is the case. Some of your cruise fare also goes to paying these crew members' wages. The DSC allows NCL to keep this portion to a minimum, as you explained, but it is not necessarily enough to cover all personnel costs (again, just talking about the relevant categories).

 

If you accept that the previous $48 for this family of 4 may have been too little, then the DSC was "in the red". So NCL could be using 100% of the funds collected from this month's increases to fund the DSC, without this necessarily translating into immediate, spectacular pay increases for the crew.

[Froggitt]

I must admit that I was a little "upset" at first, but now that I have gotten used to the "idea" I actually find it OK. My DH and I have been on 18 NCL cruises since 2003, we love great food and great service, and I can honestly say that especially in the last 4-5 years the quality on both food and service in the main dining rooms decreased little by little, so we were very happy to have the option to go to specialty restaurants. We didn't mind paying the service charge, and we usually "rounded up" the dinner-bill with between $5 and $15 (for 2 persons), depending on our "connection" with the waiter.

Because in our opinion, the quality of both the food AND the service in specialty restaurants have been much higher (local, smaller kitchens, more exclusive ingredients, better chefs, etc.).

The food is better in the speciality restaurant because it is made to order, rather than e.g. a whole tray of steaks being grilled, and then sat on plates waiting to be taken by waiters.

[maywell]

This is assuming that the DSC is the only source of crew compensation (for the crew categories that are included in the DSC system), and I don't believe that is the case. Some of your cruise fare also goes to paying these crew members' wages. The DSC allows NCL to keep this portion to a minimum, as you explained, but it is not necessarily enough to cover all personnel costs (again, just talking about the relevant categories).

 

If you accept that the previous $48 for this family of 4 may have been too little, then the DSC was "in the red". So NCL could be using 100% of the funds collected from this month's increases to fund the DSC, without this necessarily translating into immediate, spectacular pay increases for the crew.

 

Here's the thing and I know I wasn't the only one who said this - NCL could had raised the DSC from $12 to $15-20 and no one would had batted an eye nor be bother by it for 2 main reasons - 1) The DSC covers everything but the captain, senior officers, management, Store clerks, bartenders and whomever else is not listed in the FAQ / Terms. 2) DSC also covers underperformers / not very good at their jobs and service has to be extremely bad all around for someone to lower the DSC ie. a waiter in MDR is doing poorly but the others who serving the table are not plus the room Steward along with buffet staff did excellent jobs - Do I lower the DSC over this one slacker? NO, why should I and that's most people go about it.

 

It is that 2nd point that has some peeve about this automatic 18% - If the underperformer is at specialty restaurant getting the DSC plus the 18%, I just paid twice for crummy service. The Cover charge for the specialty restaurant covers the privilege, experience, ambrience, food and (I guess not) service of dining there, hence why in some people eyes its another form of double dip. So I paid a cover charge plus the automatic 18% and DSC for a lousy experience and service - Who wouldn't be peeve / upset at that? At the lowest its $18 and the highest its $36 for a solo traveler like me, now imagine that for a group of 3 and more - that's alot of money from all 3 combinations, UDP or not. When that UDP promotion where the 18% is applied ends, there's going to be alot of gnashing teeth even more so than the UBP.

[Cindy]

This is really irritating, and it may contribute to me cancelling our first NCL cruise. We eat almost exclusively in Specialty Restaurants, so this would be a daily 18% restaurant charge on top of our automatic gratuities that we're paying (to not eat in the MDR).:(

 

I almost always tip extra in a specialty restaurant, but I'd like it to be because I've decided the service was worthy of the tip, not because a cruise line is tacking on another fee. In my case, this will actually hurt the servers.

[nancynana9950]

I have cruised on NCL three times, with a fourth coming up later this year. I have a question for those who have sailed with them many times. Have you ever seen a bar service person working in a food service area? If so, I would think it would show that NCL has worked out how to distribute Partial amounts of DSC in amounts to those working in areas where gratuity is added. IF this is the case it would be extremely wise for NCL to clarify this rather quickly so they may stop alienating so many loyal customers! That's all it would take to end all this. People just want to know how this system works with THEIR money

[SJ]

If giving away all the free packages is causing this then stop the promotions. No one would complain, it's been running more than long enough. No one wants to feel they got a freebie only to get hit with a fee when trying to use it.

 

Frankly this is not about the crew, all these extras fees are meant to pay off the ships Ncl is building. Using our sympathy for the crew makes it easier for many consumers to accept this. Their silence must be better than the truth otherwise they would clarify all these increases publicly. Ncl is just waiting for the storm to pass and it's business as usual. If we passengers do not follow thru by protesting vocally and with our wallets, rest assured there will be no cruiseline you will be able to cruise without paying all new fees after you already paid for your cruise. I fear what and when is the next shoe going to drop.

[maywell]

I have cruised on NCL three times, with a fourth coming up later this year. I have a question for those who have sailed with them many times. Have you ever seen a bar service person working in a food service area? If so, I would think it would show that NCL has worked out how to distribute Partial amounts of DSC in amounts to those working in areas where gratuity is added. IF this is the case it would be extremely wise for NCL to clarify this rather quickly so they may stop alienating so many loyal customers! That's all it would take to end all this. People just want to know how this system works with THEIR money

 

No, going on my 2nd with NCL but personal observation from my last trip - The bartenders did not help the waitstaff even if the the bar was in the buffets. But the waitstaff from specialty and MDR helped each other or rotated, i.e: Teppannaki waitresses were in the Manhattan room couple of evenings; lunch time they work the Sushi Bar and/or Noodle bar. Waiter that served my table in the MDR 1st night (it was either Taste or Savor, took forever to bring the meals probably due to embark day...But 2nd table of soloers got their food faster and were finish before we got main dishes; winded up getting 2 free bottles of wine served to us for the whole mess) was the next evening at Le Bistro serving table there.

[Single Cruiser]

The biggest thing I hate about all this and the recent DSC/bar increases etc. is the way NCL inform and introduce it. It's always first heard when someone has found out on a bill onboard or a ship enquiry. And then it's like introduced the same day or even in the past.

 

NCL need to drastically improve their communications with the customers.

This could have been so much easier if they said. New bookings from 1st July or sailings from such a date which would also give those who had already booked the option to say buy the UDP pre-Delrio taxes added.

 

Instead it's those who have booked like myself often a year or more in advance but no other option

[TrumpyNor]

The food is better in the speciality restaurant because it is made to order, rather than e.g. a whole tray of steaks being grilled, and then sat on plates waiting to be taken by waiters.

 

Of course, I just forgot to "specify" that..... ;)

Edited March 21, 2015 by TrumpyNor

[maywell]

If giving away all the free packages is causing this then stop the promotions. No one would complain, it's been running more than long enough. No one wants to feel they got a freebie only to get hit with a fee when trying to use it.

 

Frankly this is not about the crew, all these extras fees are meant to pay off the ships Ncl is building. Using our sympathy for the crew makes it easier for many consumers to accept this. Their silence must be better than the truth otherwise they would clarify all these increases publicly. Ncl is just waiting for the storm to pass and it's business as usual. If we passengers do not follow thru by protesting vocally and with our wallets, rest assured there will be no cruiseline you will be able to cruise without paying all new fees after you already paid for your cruise. I fear what and when is the next shoe going to drop.

 

 

I don't mind paying $4-5 via cruise fare or cover charge, but not this way through 18% auto tip especially when service was down right lousy. NCL got it confuse if they thought Americans especially United State pay tips like it automatic service charge - No, we tip when the service is good or impeccable, not when service was so bad that the main course was served an hour after the hors d'oeuvres and scallop potatoes is ice cold due to sitting out too long.

[hpecorari]

My next 3 cruises are with the Promo so I don't have to worry about this 18% auto gratuity.

 

However, on any further cruises I have decided what I'm going to do.

 

IF service is good and I feel they deserve the 18% gratuity I will leave it there.

IF service is not good I will do one of two things:

1. Cross it out and change the total and then sign

or

2. Talk to whomever is in charge at the specialty restaurant and ask for it to be removed and tell them I was not satisfied with the food and/or service.

 

I have no intention of touching my DSC as I believe that will hurt all the crew who work so very hard.

 

Harriet

[TrumpyNor]

However, on any further cruises I have decided what I'm going to do.

 

IF service is good and I feel they deserve the 18% gratuity I will leave it there.

IF service is not good I will do one of two things:

1. Cross it out and change the total and then sign

or

2. Talk to whomever is in charge at the specialty restaurant and ask for it to be removed and tell them I was not satisfied with the food and/or service.

 

I have no intention of touching my DSC as I believe that will hurt all the crew who work so very hard.

 

Harriet

 

That is how I am intending to do it as well... :)

[jaja]

 

However, on any further cruises I have decided what I'm going to do.

 

IF service is good and I feel they deserve the 18% gratuity I will leave it there.

IF service is not good I will do one of two things:

1. Cross it out and change the total and then sign

or

2. Talk to whomever is in charge at the specialty restaurant and ask for it to be removed and tell them I was not satisfied with the food and/or service.

 

I have no intention of touching my DSC as I believe that will hurt all the crew who work so very hard.

 

Harriet

 

Ditto ;)

[ColinIllinois]

I think this bothers me because I don't want any angst or confrontation while trying to enjoy my vacation. I'm not one of the over-tippers ( to each their own, not judging). I pay my DSC, don't touch it. I don't pay extra on drinks (there is already a tip built in). I don't care how much the workers make per annum. I just want to go and unwind and relax.

 

I'm wondering if this is bothering me more than it should. Eh, who knows. I've got bigger fish to fry right now. :)

[jaja]

I think this bothers me because I don't want any angst or confrontation while trying to enjoy my vacation. I'm not one of the over-tippers ( to each their own, not judging). I pay my DSC, don't touch it. I don't pay extra on drinks (there is already a tip built in). I don't care how much the workers make per annum. I just want to go and unwind and relax.

 

I'm wondering if this is bothering me more than it should. Eh, who knows. I've got bigger fish to fry right now. :)

 

:) Well said.....

[mking8288]

Ditto on the posts above mine ...

Well, all my bags are packed and I am ready to go, leaving on a ... cruise ship, tomorrow , on the Breakaway.

I'm done with the bitching here as I got other things to settle & do, pre-pay bills so that there are late charges, etc. DW asked me, how much cash are we bring (the usual ... including small bills for tipping, etc.) I told her, maybe not so much as before b/c of all these "extra" add-ons, I might just sign it (if necessary, cross it out & write-in "my" countered & "approved" amount instead ) I am not sure what we are going to do with Room Service, as we always tipped a few dollars depending on what/how much we ordered - it's not the front line crew members' "fault" for these changes & increases in DSC, and I have no doubt that they deserved COLA adjustments over time. Afterall, I know how much I paid for my DD coffee, with a coupon (frugal, I confess :D )

 

When we dine at LeBistro, we tipped accordingly & often above the 18% suggested ... wait-n-see, we can live the 3% on beverages, not a big deal with soda as the 2 free bottles of house wine will last us the entire week. NCL really, really did all these leaving bad taste for us - FWIW.

 

I am beginning to wonder if we should reward OUR room steward (and, individual server) for above-and-beyond services by giving her/him non-cash recognitions, like a Telephone Calling Card (it's still a cheap way to call Asia) or Walmart Gift Card - that way, NCL isn't going to "extract" an indirect or administrative fee in the DSC fee out of mine, just to send my message, at the risk of shorting their crew welfare funding. A $20 Visa debit card is a nice way of saying a very personal thank you and is as good as cash, right !! They can still turn them in to avoid staying out of troube ... hmmm.

 

I might just do that & make a quick run to the local Walmart/Target - or, even Starbucks gift card (which, our mailman loved !! at Christmas) Instead of giving cash, a new Free Style tradition: that should get NCL's attention ... in lieu of crispy dollar bills.

 

Meanwhile, no followup acknowledgement or response on social media (FB & T) - nothing and silence isn't the answer, I know that we know that NCL know that these threads are being monitored - so, let them know ... we are asking the tough question, right here on CC !!

Edited March 21, 2015 by mking8288

[littlelulu01]

If someone will pose this question in a clear concise manner and just state the facts you want to know about..I will be happy to get a correct answer for you..

Jancruz1

 

Hi Jan. if I've been given the UDP as a perk I assume they won't tack on the 18%. Does this mean the 18% is covered in the UDP like with the UBP or do I need to tip extra in speciality restaurants? Im just trying to find out what the right thing to do is without stiffing a server in speciality dining. If the 18% is included in my perk I figure this change is a good thing because now my extra tip is included.